Who actually is the 12" MacBook for?

[bill-p]

My mom was taught Windows in 2000, mainly by me, and is very comfortable with it now. To her, an iPad is a strange UI, she can't type on it without a keyboard, it has no mouse.

Your mom may be different, but the elders in my extended family not only want to check emails they want to write emails and they want a keyboard for that, they're all touch-typists since the 1950's. Yes, they watch silly videos on YouTube and yes, they read news articles, but they're used to Windows for 15+ years and have learned enough by now to be relatively efficient and self-sufficient.

BJ

My mom has never ever been able to use any computer up until the point where I gave her an iPad, so there's the difference. She's not the only one either. After I taught her how to use the iPad with Retina Display a while back, she has actually been able to teach her other friends, who had also never used a single computer their entire lives, and who are still doing snail mail these days (seriously). They are just old school. Emails may take a while to type up on the iPad, but they are not impossible. These are elderly people. They don't type at 80WPM while not looking at the keyboard. I have actually been able to teach my mom how to use dictation lately, so I'll see if she will be using that more instead of the on-screen keyboard.

I solved the printing problem for her, in any case. Bought her an Airplay-capable printer, so whenever she needs to print out things like coupons, emails, cat photos, etc... it's super easy, and she doesn't have to plug the iPad in.

I disagree, if Apple didn't believe in it they wouldn't of put the Touch Bar in the new MacBook Pro's. I think just like anything else it's about getting use to it, give people time and they probably will. I can see the Touch Bar being added to other computers such as the iMac.

The problem is not whether Apple believes in it, it's whether the feature makes any reasonable usability sense. And as a developer myself, I can tell you straight up I cannot see a point to the Touch Bar other than adding more work for us developers, and potentially allowing us to charge our clients extra for implementing it. Yes, it's really that kind of device.

The thing with a touch screen is, and I have worked on a lot of projects involving them, is that because they can shift the controls, you force the user to constantly stare at the screen to see what they're controlling. And this applies no matter how big or small the touch screen is. This is the flaw of the Touch Bar. But I think Apple knows this, and they want it.

I think everybody is missing the point. It's not whether or not Apple believes in the Touch Bar, or whether people can "get used to it". What it really is at this point, is a "survey" for the future, when Apple will take away the trackpad and keyboard altogether, and replace them with a big touch screen. It's very obvious. If developers start adapting to the Touch Bar more, then Apple knows they can force developers to work with a big touch screen as well. If users start adapting to the Touch Bar more, then Apple knows they can push the touch screen on them as well. It's just a matter of whether the adoption is fast or slow, so that Apple can plan for the eventual inclusion of that touch screen. The slimmer keyboard with not much key travel is also a subtle hint at the fact that they'll eventually force a flat screen with no key travel at all on people. The "Apple Pencil" will eventually become another input method on that device as well.

 

[Dave245]

The problem is not whether Apple believes in it, it's whether the feature makes any reasonable usability sense. And as a developer myself, I can tell you straight up I cannot see a point to the Touch Bar other than adding more work for us developers, and potentially allowing us to charge our clients extra for implementing it. Yes, it's really that kind of device.

The thing with a touch screen is, and I have worked on a lot of projects involving them, is that because they can shift the controls, you force the user to constantly stare at the screen to see what they're controlling. And this applies no matter how big or small the touch screen is. This is the flaw of the Touch Bar. But I think Apple knows this, and they want it.

I think everybody is missing the point. It's not whether or not Apple believes in the Touch Bar, or whether people can "get used to it". What it really is at this point, is a "survey" for the future, when Apple will take away the trackpad and keyboard altogether, and replace them with a big touch screen. It's very obvious. If developers start adapting to the Touch Bar more, then Apple knows they can force developers to work with a big touch screen as well. If users start adapting to the Touch Bar more, then Apple knows they can push the touch screen on them as well. It's just a matter of whether the adoption is fast or slow, so that Apple can plan for the eventual inclusion of that touch screen. The slimmer keyboard with not much key travel is also a subtle hint at the fact that they'll eventually force a flat screen with no key travel at all on people. The "Apple Pencil" will eventually become another input method on that device as well.

Some people would disagree, being able to use the Touch Bar in apps like Final Cut Pro makes it handy for some people, now I'm not speaking from personal experience because I haven't used the Touch Bar yet rather I'm talking from a friends point of view who brought a Touch Bar MacBook Pro when they came out and when I asked him what he thought about it he said he likes the Touch Bar as it saves him time in Final Cut and other apps that he uses professionally as an editor. Fro mysel I'm not sure if I see a use for it I'm a writer and not an editor so testing it out along with the 12" MacBook at the Apple Store is my best bet (which I will be doing next month). I'm not sure if the Touch Bar will eventually make its way to both the 12" MacBook and or the iMac but i do think it's a feature that will be around for a while.

 

[bill-p]

Your friend is probably the only person that likes it right now:
http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/art...ro-x-and-the-touch-bar-or-where-are-my-f-keys
https://larryjordan.com/articles/using-the-touch-bar-in-final-cut-pro-x/

And it's not like I don't have access to a Macbook with touch bar. Or more like, all of us are each issued one just so that we can tackle the touch bar whenever a project comes up that demands it, and we are indeed handling at least one such projects.

It's just not the machine I take home with me and/or use daily for my personal tasks, as it's reserved for testing purposes only. But yeah, we do get to play with them at work, and honestly, the novelty wears off fast when all the touch bar does is act like a touch version of the function keys about 70-80% of the time right now. Coding for it is not that much of a hassle, but even our clients struggle to find things that they want us to put in it. The strip is far too small compared to a touch screen for any extensive control scheme that really makes a difference. In most cases, only one or two things at a time can fit in there. Hence why I suggested that perhaps it will be eventually replaced with an actual touch screen.

If Apple really wants to push it as a standard, then they will push it on to the 12" MacBook before long.

The way I see it, it seems to be a long-term plan for them, so the 13" Pro and 12" computers will probably continue with the function keys for at least this year and the next. Not even Apple supports the touch bar fully now because, as I mentioned, you only see it switch to something mildly useful in some of their apps, and only when you're doing certain things. Otherwise it's a glorified function key row that arguably doesn't really help to make any task faster.

 

[Dave245]

With all the talk about Apple taking the online page down tomorrow for maintenance I wonder what the chances are that they will update the 12" MacBook tomorrow? it would be great timing considering I'm in the market for one

If of course there is going to be any spec bumps or anything tomorrow, it could just turn out to be maintenance.

 

[boltjames]

I think everybody is missing the point. It's not whether or not Apple believes in the Touch Bar, or whether people can "get used to it". What it really is at this point, is a "survey" for the future, when Apple will take away the trackpad and keyboard altogether, and replace them with a big touch screen.

I think you're overthinking this and the answer is very basic: Apple is running out of material.

The MacBook Pro was designed during a period where Apple was under immense pressure to be innovative and come up with more new, revolutionary, and different ideas. So they sat around a room, brainstormed, and built a list of new reaches for the tired MacBook and among them was to take the old and barely used function bar and turn it into a new and barely used function bar.

I don't think Apple was actually trying to revolutionize the MacBook. I think they were trying to revolutionize their stock price. Shiny new animated function bar. Looks good at the keynote, looks good in Apple Store's, doesn't get used.

BJ

 

[fisherking]

it's the big picture that matters, not the moment. the touch bar is here to stay (at least for some years); app developers are incorporating it, apple will bring it to it's other macs. we'll adapt, and one day, you'll wonder how you managed without it. that's how tech works.

 

[boltjames]

it's the big picture that matters, not the moment. the touch bar is here to stay (at least for some years); app developers are incorporating it, apple will bring it to it's other macs. we'll adapt, and one day, you'll wonder how you managed without it. that's how tech works.

Tell that to all the Windows users forced to pay for touch screen compatible laptops since 2008 who have never used the feature, ever.

Sometimes a product is as good as it gets. The Touch Bar is cool, but it's not too useful. I bought my son a MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar about 7 weeks ago, he misses the old function keys.

BJ

 

[fisherking]

Tell that to all the Windows users forced to pay for touch screen compatible laptops since 2008 who have never used the feature, ever.

Sometimes a product is as good as it gets. The Touch Bar is cool, but it's not too useful. I bought my son a MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar about 7 weeks ago, he misses the old function keys.

BJ

it's not like someone at apple thought this up, and a week later it was on the macbook pro. it's a long-term plan, and we'll adapt. and eventually, no one will miss the macs before the the touchbar...

 

[bill-p]

Yeah, this is not something that just came up on a whim.

The touch bar is not simply just a touch screen. It has its own controller SoC and everything else. Optimizing for it is essentially like working on an entirely different device/computer that just happens to be connected to MacOS, and it's not the same as a "touch screen" per se, even though there are similarities coding for the two.

It's clear the Touch Bar was planned a long time ago (at least 6 months out), because the high-level codes for it are very mature in MacOS, as opposed to touch control interface in Windows.

Like I said, it feels like Apple is already thinking of incorporating a MacBook with touch screen. The Touch Bar is basically here to "smooth the learning curve", i.e. to prepare people for the future when they'll completely ditch the keyboard and trackpad.

 

[boltjames]

it's not like someone at apple thought this up, and a week later it was on the macbook pro. it's a long-term plan, and we'll adapt. and eventually, no one will miss the macs before the the touchbar...

I'm not saying that Apple threw this together in a week in a garage. I'm actually saying the opposite.

Apple had 5 years to figure out what their next gen MacBook Pro was going to look like and the best they could do was replace analog function keys with dynamic function keys. It speaks volumes about the brick wall they face. I don't blame them at all, for the record. I'm a big fan and they're in a tough spot trying to make a 20 year old product concept feel fresh. But I know a fractional feature when I see one, it's a bell and a whistle to make something appear new when it really isn't.

But back to the 12", the Function Bar is just another thing we don't want on our small/thin/light travel MacBook. Keep it clean, keep it simple, reduce bulk, reduce weight, increase battery life.

BJ

 

[Dave245]

Yeah, this is not something that just came up on a whim.

The touch bar is not simply just a touch screen. It has its own controller SoC and everything else. Optimizing for it is essentially like working on an entirely different device/computer that just happens to be connected to MacOS, and it's not the same as a "touch screen" per se, even though there are similarities coding for the two.

It's clear the Touch Bar was planned a long time ago (at least 6 months out), because the high-level codes for it are very mature in MacOS, as opposed to touch control interface in Windows.

Like I said, it feels like Apple is already thinking of incorporating a MacBook with touch screen. The Touch Bar is basically here to "smooth the learning curve", i.e. to prepare people for the future when they'll completely ditch the keyboard and trackpad.

They did say in an interview (Craig was interviewed after the presentation) that Apple had been working on the Touch Bar for years! He was also asked about a touch screen Mac and he said they tested it but the user experience wasn't good at all and so that's why they haven't done a touchscreen Mac.

 

[c0ppo]

Some people would disagree, being able to use the Touch Bar in apps like Final Cut Pro makes it handy for some people, now I'm not speaking from personal experience because I haven't used the Touch Bar yet rather I'm talking from a friends point of view who brought a Touch Bar MacBook Pro when they came out and when I asked him what he thought about it he said he likes the Touch Bar as it saves him time in Final Cut and other apps that he uses professionally as an editor. Fro mysel I'm not sure if I see a use for it I'm a writer and not an editor so testing it out along with the 12" MacBook at the Apple Store is my best bet (which I will be doing next month). I'm not sure if the Touch Bar will eventually make its way to both the 12" MacBook and or the iMac but i do think it's a feature that will be around for a while.

Well, I am a developer as well. Had 15" 2016 model, returned it due to some problems. But would have returned it anyway, because of the TB. Useless gimmick. Of course - imho.

Whatever your friend is using on TB can for 100% (except timeline) be done via keyboard shortcuts. And it would be way quicker and easier.

I have yet to meet a person IRL that finds TB useful

 

[bill-p]

I'm not saying that Apple threw this together in a week in a garage. I'm actually saying the opposite.

Apple had 5 years to figure out what their next gen MacBook Pro was going to look like and the best they could do was replace analog function keys with dynamic function keys. It speaks volumes about the brick wall they face. I don't blame them at all, for the record. I'm a big fan and they're in a tough spot trying to make a 20 year old product concept feel fresh. But I know a fractional feature when I see one, it's a bell and a whistle to make something appear new when it really isn't.

But back to the 12", the Function Bar is just another thing we don't want on our small/thin/light travel MacBook. Keep it clean, keep it simple, reduce bulk, reduce weight, increase battery life.

BJ

You still don't get it.

I'm saying the Touch Bar is a transitional thing. It will eventually be replaced with a touch screen with haptic feedback... that will be on the bottom, replacing the keyboard and trackpad. This probably has already been prototyped and decided upon, but forcing "Pro users" to immediately jump from trackpad and keyboard to no trackpad and keyboard would create huge backlash, so they're doing it in steps (like making the keyboard much flatter, for instance).

There is no brick wall here. They have carefully calculated and arrived at the conclusion that touch bar + the flatter keyboard will have to do just for now. When people have gotten used to touch bar, and Apple has figured out the whole haptic feedback situation, I'm sure they will next introduce touch bar with haptic before jumping entirely to the touch screen.

So yeah, the touch bar is fractional, because it is. It's meant to users ready for the next thing, and I do not think it will stay at all 4 years later.

They did say in an interview (Craig was interviewed after the presentation) that Apple had been working on the Touch Bar for years! He was also asked about a touch screen Mac and he said they tested it but the user experience wasn't good at all and so that's why they haven't done a touchscreen Mac.

I do not think anybody has actually asked if Apple wanted to do anything like a dual-screen computer, with the touch screen on the bottom to replace the trackpad and keyboard. And the touch bar all but confirms that that's the direction they're going for here.

I would guess the reason why they say user experience isn't good at all right now probably has to do with haptic feedback not being good enough in practice for them to implement it with a touch keyboard. You can clearly see that they are experimenting with haptic when you look at the Force Touch trackpad and the new "home button" on the iPhone 7. They are no doubt the product of experiments Apple is doing in order to bring about a "convincing" experience with a touch keyboard. In fact, I would bet that the keyboard is the biggest issue for them right now, and it would probably take some more years to solve, so touch bar is the best they can do at the moment.

 

[Dave245]

I do not think anybody has actually asked if Apple wanted to do anything like a dual-screen computer, with the touch screen on the bottom to replace the trackpad and keyboard. And the touch bar all but confirms that that's the direction they're going for here.

I would guess the reason why they say user experience isn't good at all right now probably has to do with haptic feedback not being good enough in practice for them to implement it with a touch keyboard. You can clearly see that they are experimenting with haptic when you look at the Force Touch trackpad and the new "home button" on the iPhone 7. They are no doubt the product of experiments Apple is doing in order to bring about a "convincing" experience with a touch keyboard. In fact, I would bet that the keyboard is the biggest issue for them right now, and it would probably take some more years to solve, so touch bar is the best they can do at the moment.

That is true, what they have been referring to is Touchscreen as in the screen like Windows touchscreen I have to agree with them touchscreen (within the actual screen) is a bad idea. I'm open to the idea of a touch screen within the area of the keys, I think that could be a great idea, imagine being able to alter the keys to be whatever you want them to be rather than just being physical keys a lot like the Touch Bar on a bigger scale.

 

[c0ppo]

Touchscreen KB would be awesome? Maybe for a regular Joe. But for a Pro? I wanted to switch back to windows coz of TB, still considering it, but my rMBP15 2014 is still going strong, so I will stay on mac for at least 2-3 years.

But a touch KB = switch in a heartbeat

 

[boltjames]

You still don't get it.

I'm saying the Touch Bar is a transitional thing. It will eventually be replaced with a touch screen with haptic feedback... that will be on the bottom, replacing the keyboard and trackpad. This probably has already been prototyped and decided upon, but forcing "Pro users" to immediately jump from trackpad and keyboard to no trackpad and keyboard would create huge backlash, so they're doing it in steps (like making the keyboard much flatter, for instance).

There is no brick wall here. They have carefully calculated and arrived at the conclusion that touch bar + the flatter keyboard will have to do just for now. When people have gotten used to touch bar, and Apple has figured out the whole haptic feedback situation, I'm sure they will next introduce touch bar with haptic before jumping entirely to the touch screen.

So yeah, the touch bar is fractional, because it is. It's meant to users ready for the next thing, and I do not think it will stay at all 4 years later.

No, I get it quite clearly.

You think that Apple is going to do away with the notebook and create a folding iPad, upper part the screen, lower part a gigantic keyless touch surface. There is no way they do this. Consumers demand specialization and choice, car brands are tripling their assortments to make customers happy, look at Apple making iPhone's that are large/medium/small, the era of convergence is over.

About 100 years ago, the spork was invented. Part spoon, part fork, its inventor felt very strongly that one utensil to serve both purposes was the way to go. Now the only time you see them is at the bottom of a KFC bag next to a $0.99 cent chicken sandwich.

BJ

 

[navaira]

Yoga Book is already available. The keyboard doubles as Wacom-style drawing tablet.

Edit: well that is odd, the image appears when I click Edit post, but not in the actual post. Here.

 

[Dave245]

Yoga Book is already available. The keyboard doubles as Wacom-style drawing tablet.

Edit: well that is odd, the image appears when I click Edit post, but not in the actual post. Here.

Yea but it doesn't run MacOS and isn't a Mac. Since leaving my Windows machine behind in 2011 I've not looked back.

 

[navaira]

I responded to @c0ppo. I kind of wanted an Android Yoga Book, except I can't really think of anything I would do with it.

 

[Dave245]

After the other day when there was no update to the 12" MacBook i'm going to check them out next month when i go to the Apple store and then decide but if i do decide to buy i will wait until they update them later this year, it would be super annoying to buy one next month only for them to end up updating them a week or so later.

If there is no update soon i wonder if they will unveil something at the next keynote, maybe alongside a new iMac

 

[bill-p]

The next update won't come any time soon. Apple typically announces things about 2-3 weeks out. Meaning... if they have an event planned for April, then we would have heard about it by now. Or at least see preparations for it. The way things are looking, there probably won't be anything announced until WWDC. And that's at least 2 months away.

Plus even if Apple were to announce an upgrade to the 12" MacBook line, it will be very marginal. This is due to Intel being unable to push Kaby Lake architecture any farther in terms of the low-power processors. Most benchmarks have shown very small performance benefits on all fronts, and all that has really changed is the naming scheme (m5 and m7 are now called i5 and i7 respectively), but other than that, not much has changed.

I would say that if you really need and want a 12" MacBook, it might be best to find the best deal that you can get on one right now, and just get it. The waiting game is silly.

If you can afford to wait, then you obviously do not need or even want one. You're just considering it. In which case, I think you are better off with something else, like, say, the 13" MacBook Pro. That one obviously won't get an upgrade until way later this year.

 

[boltjames]

The next update won't come any time soon. Apple typically announces things about 2-3 weeks out. Meaning... if they have an event planned for April, then we would have heard about it by now. Or at least see preparations for it. The way things are looking, there probably won't be anything announced until WWDC. And that's at least 2 months away.

Plus even if Apple were to announce an upgrade to the 12" MacBook line, it will be very marginal. This is due to Intel being unable to push Kaby Lake architecture any farther in terms of the low-power processors. Most benchmarks have shown very small performance benefits on all fronts, and all that has really changed is the naming scheme (m5 and m7 are now called i5 and i7 respectively), but other than that, not much has changed.

I would say that if you really need and want a 12" MacBook, it might be best to find the best deal that you can get on one right now, and just get it. The waiting game is silly.

If you can afford to wait, then you obviously do not need or even want one. You're just considering it. In which case, I think you are better off with something else, like, say, the 13" MacBook Pro. That one obviously won't get an upgrade until way later this year.

Good post, and the thing I'll add:

I find that those who wait for the horsepower upgrade are people who shouldn't be looking at the RMB to begin with. It's about portability, not processing power. Too many people think they can only own one computer in their lives and it has to be a swiss army knife that's as thin as an iPad and as powerful as a MacBook Pro so they project that desire on the 12" and it's not what it's about nor is it possible.

Unless Apple is planning to make it thinner, make it lighter, or have fewer ports, there is no need to wait. Last year's model, this year's model, next year's model, they're all the same thing. Because they're designed for consumers who want less of everything, not more. That's what people don't get. We don't want more ports to add weight and drain battery. We don't want bigger processors to add heat and compromise all-day-battery life. We don't want HD cameras that add thickness and weight.

BJ

 

[DaMax85]

After the other day when there was no update to the 12" MacBook i'm going to check them out next month when i go to the Apple store and then decide but if i do decide to buy i will wait until they update them later this year, it would be super annoying to buy one next month only for them to end up updating them a week or so later.

If there is no update soon i wonder if they will unveil something at the next keynote, maybe alongside a new iMac

I'd just buy one and be done with it. There will always be an update a few months away no matter when you buy one and there won't be a redesign anytime soon. Shop for a good deal and buy one. You'll love it.

 

[Dave245]

Good post, and the thing I'll add:

I find that those who wait for the horsepower upgrade are people who shouldn't be looking at the RMB to begin with. It's about portability, not processing power. Too many people think they can only own one computer in their lives and it has to be a swiss army knife that's as thin as an iPad and as powerful as a MacBook Pro so they project that desire on the 12" and it's not what it's about nor is it possible.

Unless Apple is planning to make it thinner, make it lighter, or have fewer ports, there is no need to wait. Last year's model, this year's model, next year's model, they're all the same thing. Because they're designed for consumers who want less of everything, not more. That's what people don't get. We don't want more ports to add weight and drain battery. We don't want bigger processors to add heat and compromise all-day-battery life. We don't want HD cameras that add thickness and weight.

BJ

I'd just buy one and be done with it. There will always be an update a few months away no matter when you buy one and there won't be a redesign anytime soon. Shop for a good deal and buy one. You'll love it.

What i mean is if i go to the Apple store buy one and then a week later Apple silently update them it will be a little annoying, just like it would for anyone. I'm not saying they will add a redesign or anything in fact rumours are saying that Apple intend to simply add a processor update and a 16GB Ram option. I'm going to the Apple store next month and will take a look along with the 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar and make a decision then.

 

[C64]

What i mean is if i go to the Apple store buy one and then a week later Apple silently update them it will be a little annoying, just like it would for anyone. I'm not saying they will add a redesign or anything in fact rumours are saying that Apple intend to simply add a processor update and a 16GB Ram option. I'm going to the Apple store next month and will take a look along with the 13" MacBook Pro Touch Bar and make a decision then.

Last year everyone expected the new MBP in the spring, summer, fall, and eventually we had to wait until the end of the year. The same could happen with the MacBook of course, but since it had an update last April and the new CPUs are ready to go, it's not that big of a stretch to expect another update really soon. WWDC usually doesn't have hardware anymore, and I don't believe we've see much Mac hardware along with the iPhone update in the fall in recent years either.

Personally I'm going to wait, because I'm not in a hurry. I'd hate to buy it now and have it refreshed within a month. If it does take until the end of the year or so that'd be a huge letdown, but not as much as spending 1500+ for a machine that I plan to be using for many years to come, just to get the previous model.

Bottom line: if you really need it now, go ahead and enjoy it. If you can wait, wait at least until after April, when based on past hardware releases the chance of an immediate update is a lot slimmer.