Wrong. Apple's switch to Intel does not mean that *all* their hardware is suddenly no different than typical PC hardware.
It may be free, but you know what? Not having to worry about viruses, spyware, malware > FREE.
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Why are Macs so Expensive?
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Wrong. Apple's switch to Intel does not mean that *all* their hardware is suddenly no different than typical PC hardware.
It may be free, but you know what? Not having to worry about viruses, spyware, malware > FREE.
Well, speaking from personal experience, I tried selling my 4 year old 2x2.8GHz Dell Precision 450 desktop with 2GB of Ram and 21" CRT. Couldn't get more than £100-200 for it tops. Actually most buyers were more interested in the CRT than the desktop. 
Whereas my 3.5 year old 1.5GHz, 1GB of Ram PowerBook G5 15" could be sold for £300-400 no probs.
Not that you Clevin, the ever reliable Mac detractor, would be in any way convinced by my insignificant example.
Whereas my 3.5 year old 1.5GHz, 1GB of Ram PowerBook G5 15" could be sold for £300-400 no probs.
Not that you Clevin, the ever reliable Mac detractor, would be in any way convinced by my insignificant example.
Probably because a 5 year old Mac can still run a lot of current software, including the most current OS? Show me a 5 year old (stock spec) PC that can reliably run Vista.
ok tell me what part of a mac's hardwares are so much different and high quality than any other pcs
LCD?
mainboard?
graphic card?
memory?
cables?
speakers?
cameras?
keyboard?
mice?
sound card?
well, get a new pc, go download AVG, it runs automatically in background, not exactly a big "WORRY" IMHO.
i can't. stock spec pcs are old, and probably has only 256MB~512RAM, which is not good enough to run vista.
however, show me a 5 years old stock mac that can run Leopard with all the bells and whistles?
also, Why is that PC's ability of being updated (hardware wise) not an advantage?
How about the fact that I can run Leopard on a 5 year old machine? Is that worth nothing? How about all the hours and days I haven't wasted nursemaiding a Windows box so it's free from trouble? Is that worth nothing? How about that the case actually looks timelessly attractive and is something I'd want in my home for more than a year? Is that worth nothing?
I can't help it if people don't value old PCs as much as they value old Macs. There are a lot of factors that go towards the perception of value in any commodity, not just the raw ingredients.
People here value OSX and the bundled software that comes with their machine, they value the ease of use, they value other things than just the components of the machine because that kind of reductionism just doesn't apply to the overall package.
And speaking from the corporate buyer's perspective, the fact that I can safely budget for a useful five year life-span for a Mac Pro or PowerMac in our case, when hardware expenditure is depreciated over three years means these machines are very good value indeed. Anyway, it's not really a choice in our case; designers tend to like their Macs.
Macs are often more expensive than PCs because Apple are succesfully able to sell them at the prices they do while continuely increaseing sales and market share and making a large profit.
There aren't many industries where you can't pay more for a higher quality (percieved or real) product than what the majority buy, yet I guess some people are so tied to their computer and so bothered that not everyone is like them they have to raise issue with it.
People are going to keep buying Apple despite the fact they could get similar or better hardware for the same price or less because buying and using a Mac running OSX is a different computing experience than using a windows PC and they prefer it.
I doubt there are many on this forum that don't have issue with Apple over one thing or another, and the fact they stick with Apple says more than enough to me that alot of people don't consider a few hundred dollars difference in price as "so expensive" for what they view as a better computing experience, whether that is from years of use or as a potential purchase.
There aren't many industries where you can't pay more for a higher quality (percieved or real) product than what the majority buy, yet I guess some people are so tied to their computer and so bothered that not everyone is like them they have to raise issue with it.
People are going to keep buying Apple despite the fact they could get similar or better hardware for the same price or less because buying and using a Mac running OSX is a different computing experience than using a windows PC and they prefer it.
I doubt there are many on this forum that don't have issue with Apple over one thing or another, and the fact they stick with Apple says more than enough to me that alot of people don't consider a few hundred dollars difference in price as "so expensive" for what they view as a better computing experience, whether that is from years of use or as a potential purchase.
There is a simple reason that Apple computers hold their value. Apple fixes their prices. They don't play the dynamic pricing game that companies like Dell play.
I also think that there isn't much of a used PC market. The people buying those things probably don't think to buy used. Meaning less demand on the used market and lower prices for those machines.
I think it is well understand that the $1299 PC I buy today, will be worth no more than 50% of its value in two years. If it is a custom built. You will be hard pressed to even sell it outside of a forum like anand or hard, which means you won't be getting much.
Now, I won't make the argument that it is quality that makes used Macs sell for more. I would more so say the fixed pricing and the high cost of entry for new Macs, meaning more people looking to get a cheaper used Mac.
I also think that there isn't much of a used PC market. The people buying those things probably don't think to buy used. Meaning less demand on the used market and lower prices for those machines.
I think it is well understand that the $1299 PC I buy today, will be worth no more than 50% of its value in two years. If it is a custom built. You will be hard pressed to even sell it outside of a forum like anand or hard, which means you won't be getting much.
Now, I won't make the argument that it is quality that makes used Macs sell for more. I would more so say the fixed pricing and the high cost of entry for new Macs, meaning more people looking to get a cheaper used Mac.
Other than it being yet another resource drain, alongside all the additional anti spyware/adaware type crap, registry maintenance malarky, etc. you need to run to keep your OS from clogging up before the bi-anual Windows re-install time comes around.
i guess long term value, which I get from your response, is different than "long term re-sell values" than I expected. Since when you need to re-sell it, format and re-install will be the way to go.
PS, Let me know your 5 years old leopard machine, spec and detailes are appreciated.
I can't begin to guess how poorly you know about the AVG which you are trying to discredit. for nowadays computer, most people have >1G RAM, this AVG cost 0% cpu and probably 50MB Ram in total, exactly how is it a problem in system resource department?
bi-anual windows reinstallation? really? show me where did you get that data?
im glad you bought a mac with 2GB ram 7 years ago, give me 2G, any pc can run vista as well.
wait, Radeon 9000 was introduce in 2002. and I doubt apple had product with it right away.
i wanted to post here due to im only a windows user so i would be nonbiased
to start off
Q6850 @3.6GHZ | EVGA 680i SLI | 4GB DDR2 OCZ 1066MHZ | 4x1TB Harddrive | 7600GT | 1000w antec Quattro | Coolmaster 832 | 24inch Samsung 1900x1200 | 30inch 2560x1600 | Vista 64Bit | 24MB Net Bethere Internet | Razer Tarantula | Razer Lachesis | Razer Mantis |Logitech G51 5.1 Speakers
theres my PC Spec i run vista ulimate 64bit Yeh it runs pretty decent. i can play games but Vista/xp has many flaws
1. It Indexes your Hardrive n Every Bootup which cannot be turnt off yet.
2. Windows has many secruity flaws
3. The Spec For pc/Windows Needs to be High just to run IT!
4. The only Good Windows AV is Avast/Kaspersky (AVG only detects 38% of known virsuses LOL)
5. Once you have windows on ur pc for awhole it becomes slower even if you do manually defrag/clear registry/clear temps
6. microsoft also seems to break there own OS time and timew again (the overday they updated my vista then to find they broke what they updated so next day i got new version of the same update?
dont get my wrong i love my pc. but windows annying issues that seriously need to be addressed.
this is why next week im getting a macbook just for internet use so i only real reason to go on my pc is to game so in theory ive wasted £1800/£2000
i could of got top range mac pro for that
to start off
Q6850 @3.6GHZ | EVGA 680i SLI | 4GB DDR2 OCZ 1066MHZ | 4x1TB Harddrive | 7600GT | 1000w antec Quattro | Coolmaster 832 | 24inch Samsung 1900x1200 | 30inch 2560x1600 | Vista 64Bit | 24MB Net Bethere Internet | Razer Tarantula | Razer Lachesis | Razer Mantis |Logitech G51 5.1 Speakers
theres my PC Spec i run vista ulimate 64bit Yeh it runs pretty decent. i can play games but Vista/xp has many flaws
1. It Indexes your Hardrive n Every Bootup which cannot be turnt off yet.
2. Windows has many secruity flaws
3. The Spec For pc/Windows Needs to be High just to run IT!
4. The only Good Windows AV is Avast/Kaspersky (AVG only detects 38% of known virsuses LOL)
5. Once you have windows on ur pc for awhole it becomes slower even if you do manually defrag/clear registry/clear temps
6. microsoft also seems to break there own OS time and timew again (the overday they updated my vista then to find they broke what they updated so next day i got new version of the same update?
dont get my wrong i love my pc. but windows annying issues that seriously need to be addressed.
this is why next week im getting a macbook just for internet use so i only real reason to go on my pc is to game so in theory ive wasted £1800/£2000
i could of got top range mac pro for that
Dual 1.25 G4 2Gb RAM at work, purchased late 2002. Because it's now unsuited for heavy production work, it's been relegated to being the scanning machine and my Leopard test machine while the production machines are still on Tiger. Satisfied?
Honestly, I want to know why you care. If you don't want to by a Mac, then don't buy one. Is your life going to be any different because someone likes to spend the money THEY earned to buy a Mac? My life is certainly not going to be any different because you like IBM clones.
You are so wrapped up in a product and cannot wait to show everyone that you have it "all" figured out. Just because you like IBM clones doesn't make them the best and just because someone else who orgasms over a Mac doesn't make them right. I mean, really, it's a computer.
Macs are more expensive to fund the Research and Development arm of Apple. And, because Apple likes to make money since they are business. There is your answer.
you are not suggesting these are the requirement to run vista smoothly, are you?
yes, simply put, Dual Intel p4M +2G ram suns vista nicely as well.
I think you respond to the wrong topic, go back and check OP's starting post please.
nope thats my computer atm and it can still lockup just being idle
(vistas bad indexing bug)
i would say its slow or would i say its fast either. sometimes it takes 5 clicks just to close Windows media center because its slow to respond due to the amount of bugs in the program.
the only reason i bought a pc
few months back when i was deciding between pc/mac was because im game a lot! and play in leagues etc.
did i mention when i bootup up vista with just av running it uses 1.1gb? even after shutting most services down "microsoft"
"this is memory management that gives more ram to the system for greater performance!" your not kidding? it don't seem to work very well to me.
(vistas bad indexing bug)
i would say its slow or would i say its fast either. sometimes it takes 5 clicks just to close Windows media center because its slow to respond due to the amount of bugs in the program.
the only reason i bought a pc
few months back when i was deciding between pc/mac was because im game a lot! and play in leagues etc.
did i mention when i bootup up vista with just av running it uses 1.1gb? even after shutting most services down "microsoft"
"this is memory management that gives more ram to the system for greater performance!" your not kidding? it don't seem to work very well to me.
Your need to make a point doesn't mean you need to be a fool. No, I didn't by 2GB of PC100 7 years ago. Your suggestion of such is rather childish. And I added the 9000 Pro later.
Do you want to take some time off, should we say 5 years now. Or maybe we should go ahead and say its a brand new Mac since it is so updated...
And it is definetly not the case that any PC with 2GB can run Vista well. We are getting ready for the rollout of Vista machines on campus. We have started testing already on all our current machines in circulation. Which is as old as a Dell GX270, a 2.4Ghz Hyperthreaded Intel box. It does not run very well, so we added so more RAM. Still did not run very well. Only when we hit our GX620 do we see performance like that of XP. Now, it will run Vista, but does it run it well enough to actually allow our users to do their jobs and the answer is no.
That means, it will be at least 2 years until we can get all those machines out of circulation, and then we can start deploying Vista.
ReSale Value
15'' Aluminum Powerbook 8g7mhz Tit was 2299
To buy one used they are like 300-450 dollars depending on specs
15'' Aluminum Powerbook 8g7mhz Tit was 2299
To buy one used they are like 300-450 dollars depending on specs
1. somebody previously mentioned that I have to pick a "stock spec" 5 years old pc for him to run "vista", I might have mixed up you two, my point is clear, to run leopard on a 5 years old mac, you need to do some update, and have some hadrwares replaced to current level. not like grab a 5 years old mac, w/o any change, throw leopard on it and it will run happily.
2.GX 620 is a OLD computer, with stock 512RAM memory. and Petium D processor. and how much was initial price? $600~700? do you think its fair to compare this to the mac you have, which probably asked for $1000+?
1. And even with updates to a machine like a GX270 it is stil incapable of effectively running Vista. Also, I updated the Mac because I wanted to. Not only to run Leopard.
2. GX620 is no more than 3 years old. We ordered them with 1GB RAM and they have a pentium D as you stated. Initial price was in the range of $700. Now, do I think it is fair to compare a 3 year old PC and a 7 year old Mac. Of course. Price is absolutely irrelevant. We are speaking in terms of a computers capability to run a new OS.
Even if we were speaking in terms of price, a machine from 7 years ago that cost $1000+ and can still holds it on very well with a new OS, compared to a 3 year old machine that cost less (well of course it would) but whose specs are much better and can just barely effectively run a new OS. Even if you wanted to take this route in comparison, your argument is weak. Lifetime value is much higher on the older Mac, and a Mac that in terms of specs should be demolished by a 620.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. But you aren't doing a good job at making any point. Now what are we comparing here? Because you don't seem to be very clear on that.
Can you run MacOSX on your so great $1299 PC???
Why you need soo many USB ports, if you want speed:
- One FireWire 400 and one FireWire 800 port; 7 watts each.
Go wireless.
Ahh! I get it, the PC comes with so many USB ports to try all of them when troubleshooting over the phone with the IT PC guys, more time to have "fun" trying to make it work.
The fastest Computer to Run Vista is a Mac.
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Opening your newmac stuff is priceless.
Comparing Mac Specs with PC specs is like comparing
HA HA! Spot on!
I am a long time mac user. Starting with my PowerBook 5300 and now own a MBP 2.33 ghz. It is just over a year old and the disc drive is no longer with us. When the OP referred to the Matshita drives as garbage he was right on. My PowerBook G4 had a similar fate and I had to break open that machine and spend some tedious time repairing it as well.
The matte LCD on this machine is very grainy. Typical response from the Job's lovers is, "Why didn't you buy glossy." I don't understand why we keep making excuses for Apple all the time. Like the iPods with such sub standard batteries.
Bottom line. When one pays this much for a computer, no matter the manufacturer, one should expect a drive to last longer than the warranty. And please don't say I should have purchased the extended warranty. At almost 2700 dollars out the door it should last that long anyway.
Apple charges so much for the hardware simply because no one wants to hold them to anything else. If there is anything wrong and anyone sounds off about it, the typical response from the macintosh crowd is the flame them and keep replacing drives in bliss.
Apple is also very, very slow to admit an issue as well.
So I can see the validity of the OP's post. But he does need to spend time on a mac to understand why we spend the extra money. I just hope Apple doesn't continue to seek profit through mediocre hardware implementation. If we stopped making excuses for Jobs Inc. they would give us higher quality.
That's all, you may flame away.
I have to go break out my torx screwdriver set and put in this new drive.
The matte LCD on this machine is very grainy. Typical response from the Job's lovers is, "Why didn't you buy glossy." I don't understand why we keep making excuses for Apple all the time. Like the iPods with such sub standard batteries.
Bottom line. When one pays this much for a computer, no matter the manufacturer, one should expect a drive to last longer than the warranty. And please don't say I should have purchased the extended warranty. At almost 2700 dollars out the door it should last that long anyway.
Apple charges so much for the hardware simply because no one wants to hold them to anything else. If there is anything wrong and anyone sounds off about it, the typical response from the macintosh crowd is the flame them and keep replacing drives in bliss.
Apple is also very, very slow to admit an issue as well.
So I can see the validity of the OP's post. But he does need to spend time on a mac to understand why we spend the extra money. I just hope Apple doesn't continue to seek profit through mediocre hardware implementation. If we stopped making excuses for Jobs Inc. they would give us higher quality.
That's all, you may flame away.
I have to go break out my torx screwdriver set and put in this new drive.
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