Why are so many forum users hostile to someone asking questions?

[myrtlebee]

I don't think macrumors is bad at all in regards to this. But in general I've seen this kind of treatment when the question can be googled in 3 minutes. Because yeah this isn't your IT department. People want interesting discussions.

This is a good example of what I’m talking about. If you think it’s a stupid question, then don’t answer it and move on to the next thread instead of chastising someone for asking because you think it’s simple. You don’t know why that person is asking. They could have googled it and found conflicting answers like I did and so they come here to ask and make sure or are confused by what they found elsewhere and need a better explanation.
This is in effect a personal IT department. This should be where people ask tech questions.

 

[Apple fanboy]

This is a good example of what I’m talking about. If you think it’s a stupid question, then don’t answer it and move on to the next thread instead of chastising someone for asking because you think it’s simple. You don’t know why that person is asking. They could have googled it and found conflicting answers like I did and so they come here to ask and make sure or are confused by what they found elsewhere and need a better explanation.
This is in effect a personal IT department. This should be where people ask tech questions.

Absolutely. It’s why many of us joined. Some sub forums are more prickly than others. But the ones I frequent are generally full of nice people. If they weren’t I’d not post as much. And I post a lot!

 

[honestone33]

You should NEVER be afraid to ask a "simple" question. First off, it's not simple to you. And secondly, there is a good chance that others have the same issue. I know I have learned some things when someone asks a simple question, and the solutions are revealing and informative.

There is one frustration I have, though. When I respond with a suggestion or two to someone, I see no answer/status, and in some cases, not even a simple Thank You. I will say, though, that tends to happen much more on another Mac discussion site I visit. A simple Thank You goes a long, long way!

 

[chown33]

This is a good example of what I’m talking about. If you think it’s a stupid question, then don’t answer it and move on to the next thread instead of chastising someone for asking because you think it’s simple. You don’t know why that person is asking. They could have googled it and found conflicting answers like I did and so they come here to ask and make sure or are confused by what they found elsewhere and need a better explanation.
This is in effect a personal IT department. This should be where people ask tech questions.

Speaking as an ordinary forum participant, rather than as a moderator, one thing I think improves the quality of a question is to describe what has already been tried. That is, assume the first question asked will be "What have you tried?", and provide that information in the initial post.

For example, if you've googled it and found conflicting answers, then describe what you tried. Don't just say "I googled it and found conflicting answers". That's not a description of what you tried. Instead, give the search terms you actually used (multiple sets if you made multiple searches), the search engine (because it may be relevant), and if there were conflicts in the results, post a couple example URLs that show the conflict. In other words, post as if someone else wanted to exactly replicate what you did.

Sometimes the problem is that poor search terms were used, but no one else will know what the search terms were unless they're posted.

Sometimes the problem is that good search terms yield poor, conflicting, or ambiguous results. No one else will know what those results were unless they can replicate the search using the same terms.

When I post an answer that I found by searching, I show the search terms I used, along with the URL of where I found the answer. If I tried more than one search or search engine, I'll list them all. Sometimes I'll also explain why I chose those particular search terms, or what key word was used to narrow the search to produce a useful result. This isn't to show off my amazing search skills, but to describe what I tried and where it led.

Back when this site got a lot more programming questions, it wasn't uncommon for someone to post a short question, and then go through about a half dozen "Did you try X?", "Yes, I did", "Well, how about Y?", "Yup, tried that too", "Which OS and Xcode version?", "Oh, it was NN and MM", and so on. This not only wastes time going back and forth, but it makes it harder to see what's already been tried, because the information is spread out across many posts, rather than being succinctly summarized up front.

 

[0128672]

Speaking as an ordinary forum participant, rather than as a moderator, one thing I think improves the quality of a question is to describe what has already been tried. That is, assume the first question asked will be "What have you tried?", and provide that information in the initial post.

For example, if you've googled it and found conflicting answers, then describe what you tried. Don't just say "I googled it and found conflicting answers". That's not a description of what you tried. Instead, give the search terms you actually used (multiple sets if you made multiple searches), the search engine (because it may be relevant), and if there were conflicts in the results, post a couple example URLs that show the conflict. In other words, post as if someone else wanted to exactly replicate what you did.

Sometimes the problem is that poor search terms were used, but no one else will know what the search terms were unless they're posted.

Sometimes the problem is that good search terms yield poor, conflicting, or ambiguous results. No one else will know what those results were unless they can replicate the search using the same terms.

When I post an answer that I found by searching, I show the search terms I used, along with the URL of where I found the answer. If I tried more than one search or search engine, I'll list them all. Sometimes I'll also explain why I chose those particular search terms, or what key word was used to narrow the search to produce a useful result. This isn't to show off my amazing search skills, but to describe what I tried and where it led.

Back when this site got a lot more programming questions, it wasn't uncommon for someone to post a short question, and then go through about a half dozen "Did you try X?", "Yes, I did", "Well, how about Y?", "Yup, tried that too", "Which OS and Xcode version?", "Oh, it was NN and MM", and so on. This not only wastes time going back and forth, but it makes it harder to see what's already been tried, because the information is spread out across many posts, rather than being succinctly summarized up front.

Amen! I feel half of my troubleshooting help posts are an attempt to get the whole picture. Thanks for this excellent post and I hope it makes its way into a sticky somewhere.

 

[polyphenol]

This has happened to me multiple times. I will ask a question (always about tech) - I am not the most tech-literate person, despite my being on this forum - and then I will have waves of responses by users calling me lazy, asking why I didn't find the answer myself, claiming I want to be "spoon fed" answers. No empathy for the fact that maybe I did look for the answer myself elsewhere and couldn't find it or might have overlooked it or misunderstood it. I've been here since 2011 and it makes me not want to frequent the forums, or at the least not want to ask questions, which I thought this forum was for. In summary, the forum culture is toxic and hostile for asking questions and I wonder what can be done about it. I can't imagine people completely unfamiliar with Apple and tech being comfortable asking questions.

Not saying you have done anything wrong - at all. But it can help if you explain that you have looked and why that looking failed. In another place altogether, simple explanations such as "I looked for xxx but only found aaa-xxx." or "All the answers I found were out of date.", would often help to potential responders understand the help the poster needs.

I have often failed to appreciate the real question when it appears to be one to which you could find answers within seconds with a search engine. That is my failing, obviously. But the asker could have helped to get a good answer, more quickly, by adding a few snippets of extra information.

 

[honestone33]

It also helps to not expect a "one button" solution to the issue. On another site I visit, folks come there with that expectation, and when they are asked some questions to assist them, they get all bent out of shape.

Some issues can be solved via a "one button". But still anyone that asks you questions (even some detailed ones) is just trying to help as much as they can.

And yes, as correctly mentioned above, it definitely helps to provide as much background information as possible. Besides steps one has taken, it is also important to clearly identify the machine you use, the OS you use, and if necessary, any third party applications you use.

 

[IowaLynn]

Lets Play Twenty Questions !

I recently suggested some steps to take, only, "I tried all that!"
I had no idea what if anything was done to troubleshoot to suggest further steps or let someone else have at it.

Job requirements: must be mind reader and gentle

 

[honestone33]

Job requirements: must be mind reader and gentle

Actually, a more basic job requirement is to be open minded! Having tunnel vision is not wise!

 

[circatee]

Since 2007, I have been on Forums, I started as a MOD on CrackBerry.com (those were the days!).
To be honest, this trend of rudeness, and simply being curt, has been going on for years. However, I will acknowledge that over the past few years, it has increased significantly.

My feeling is that, as smartphones and devices are used more wildly, individuals take less time to read an entire post. Thus, they respond curtly. And, to add, as individuals are typing behind a keyboard, of sorts, they fail to remember they are conversing with another human.

What gets me, is when helping individuals, and they don't even as so much say, 'thanks' or 'please'; often more of a demand to help them...

 

[honestone33]

Since 2007, I have been on Forums, I started as a MOD on CrackBerry.com (those were the days!).
To be honest, this trend of rudeness, and simply being curt, has been going on for years. However, I will acknowledge that over the past few years, it has increased significantly.

My feeling is that, as smartphones and devices are used more wildly, individuals take less time to read an entire post. Thus, they respond curtly. And, to add, as individuals are typing behind a keyboard, of sorts, they fail to remember they are conversing with another human.

What gets me, is when helping individuals, and they don't even as so much say, 'thanks' or 'please'; often more of a demand to help them...

Well stated! And your last sentence is so, so accurate! I said the same thing above, regarding a lack of any kind of "Thank You". Sometimes I have to do some extensive research to provide a valid, accurate suggestion (or suggestions) of assistance to someone, but then not even get a "Thank You". Rather frustrating, to say the least!

 

[Septembersrain]

This place has shown me some massive hostility but luckily I have just become used to it. I experienced the most aggression when after getting my iPhone 11 Pro Max, I was blinded by Face ID with a red light for a few seconds.

It only occurred once and I was looking for people who also may have experienced it. Instead I mostly got people saying it's impossible and I'm full of it.

It's okay to ask, just know that on an anonymous type forum there will be people who love the opportunity to belittle others.

 

[honestone33]

It's okay to ask, just know that on an anonymous type forum there will be people who love the opportunity to belittle others.

Unfortunately, that is so, so accurate! Myself I'd like to "attack" any individual that did that, but of course there is the chance I could get banned. Maybe if enough users did "attack" such individuals, no banning would occur.

 

[C DM]

Unfortunately, that is so, so accurate! Myself I'd like to "attack" any individual that did that, but of course there is the chance I could get banned. Maybe if enough users did "attack" such individuals, no banning would occur.

Seems like reporting something of that nature for moderator review would not only be more appropriate, but would usually yield a better outcome.

 

[honestone33]

Seems like reporting something of that nature for moderator review would not only be more appropriate, but would usually yield a better outcome.

One would think so. But sometimes the rules underlying this site are open for interpretation, with the moderator having the last word. What might seem to be a candidate for a rules violation is ruled not to be the case, and vice versa.

 

[circatee]

You know, I left one forum once, due to the 'abuse'.
And, I even had to block two people. For something that I do, and think it is fun (answering questions and posing possible solutions), I should not have to leave a forum, or block people.

Alas, here we are.

 

[Apple_Robert]

You know, I left one forum once, due to the 'abuse'.
And, I even had to block two people. For something that I do, and think it is fun (answering questions and posing possible solutions), I should not have to leave a forum, or block people.

Alas, here we are.

Use the ignore function if you have to. That is what it is there for. Don‘t allow strangers to dictate whether you stay or leave. Empower yourself by taking proper action. Report possible offenses to the mods and allow them to carry the load.

Strangers on this site have no power over me in what I say or do, so long as I rightfully abide by the rules and conduct myself as I expect to be treated; with respect. As such, I will not allow any forum member(s) to lessen my enjoyment of the forum. I manually ignore those who purposefully disrespect me, in order to try and get a reaction from me. You should do the same and you can enjoy the site again. Life is too short to put up with a bunch of crap.

 

[honestone33]

You know, I left one forum once, due to the 'abuse'.
And, I even had to block two people. For something that I do, and think it is fun (answering questions and posing possible solutions), I should not have to leave a forum, or block people.

Alas, here we are.

Sorry to hear that. Maybe if such an abuser, along with the abusive post, is reported right away, the moderator reacts right away to ban such an individual, and if the moderator were to make a post about that incident, then possibly such abuse by others would become less and less (and maybe even stop, although that could be too much to ask for). Then someone like you would not experience what you did.

 

[honestone33]

Use the ignore function if you have to. That is what it is there for. Don‘t allow strangers to dictate whether you stay or leave. Empower yourself by taking proper action. Report possible offenses to the mods and allow them to carry the load.

Strangers on this site have no power over me in what I say or do, so long as I rightfully abide by the rules and conduct myself as I expect to be treated; with respect. As such, I will not allow any forum member(s) to lessen my enjoyment of the forum. I manually ignore those who purposefully disrespect me, in order to try and get a reaction from me. You should do the same and you can enjoy the site again. Life is too short to put up with a bunch of crap.

While that is all well and good, still such abusive folks need to be punished swiftly and effectively. Even though you choose to ignore such folks, others will still see such abusive posts.

 

[I7guy]

Since 2007, I have been on Forums, I started as a MOD on CrackBerry.com (those were the days!).
To be honest, this trend of rudeness, and simply being curt, has been going on for years. However, I will acknowledge that over the past few years, it has increased significantly.

My feeling is that, as smartphones and devices are used more wildly, individuals take less time to read an entire post. Thus, they respond curtly. And, to add, as individuals are typing behind a keyboard, of sorts, they fail to remember they are conversing with another human.

What gets me, is when helping individuals, and they don't even as so much say, 'thanks' or 'please'; often more of a demand to help them...

Lol, a mod on crackberry? That was a crackin' site back in the day.

I agree though that when you have helped a member, a "thank you", or "like" would be nice.

 

[circatee]

Use the ignore function if you have to. That is what it is there for. Don‘t allow strangers to dictate whether you stay or leave. Empower yourself by taking proper action. Report possible offenses to the mods and allow them to carry the load.

Strangers on this site have no power over me in what I say or do, so long as I rightfully abide by the rules and conduct myself as I expect to be treated; with respect. As such, I will not allow any forum member(s) to lessen my enjoyment of the forum. I manually ignore those who purposefully disrespect me, in order to try and get a reaction from me. You should do the same and you can enjoy the site again. Life is too short to put up with a bunch of crap.

Brilliant points. As a matter of fact, I have stopped using Social Media, because of the same tone of this thread conversation.

Based on your points, maybe the same approach should be taken. But, I am one of those all in, or all out. Don't recall the last time I did someone half arsed...

 

[honestone33]

Lol, a mod on crackberry? That was a crackin' site back in the day.

I agree though that when you have helped a member, a "thank you", or "like" would be nice.

Unfortunately, people saying "Thank You" is a lost art these days!

 

[Septembersrain]

Lol, a mod on crackberry? That was a crackin' site back in the day.

I agree though that when you have helped a member, a "thank you", or "like" would be nice.

Being an Ambassador on iMore was a nightmare. I don't know why but it seems like most of these tech forums have become more harsh as time goes by. Even XDA has turned more bitter these days. I guess appreciation and patience is going the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[honestone33]

I guess appreciation and patience is going the way of the Dodo bird.

Could not have said it any better! And that seems to be the case no matter what.

An excellent example from everyday life: my wife's friend has a boyfriend. He's actually a nice man (attorney), but the first couple of times we had them over for dinner, he did not say Thank You at all. My wife certainly did not appreciate it, and I'm sure she mentioned it to her friend. Well, last Saturday we had them over for dinner, and my wife made excellent sashimi (plus some other dishes). It sure was good. This time he did say Thank You.

I myself still 1) always thank my wife for the cooking she does (I'm so fortunate that she is an excellent cook), 2) open doors for her, and 3) stand when she leaves the table in a restaurant to go to the bathroom, and pull out the chair for her when she returns. While those are old fashioned gestures, I'll never change, as that is the way I was raised. I also do just about all of the other household chores. I don't mind at all.

And of course I am happily showing the respect she deserves.

As the old saying goes, "Need to keep the woman happy". Amen to that!

 

[Septembersrain]

Could not have said it any better! And that seems to be the case no matter what.

An excellent example from everyday life: my wife's friend has a boyfriend. He's actually a nice man (attorney), but the first couple of times we had them over for dinner, he did not say Thank You at all. My wife certainly did not appreciate it, and I'm sure she mentioned it to her friend. Well, last Saturday we had them over for dinner, and my wife made excellent sashimi (plus some other dishes). It sure was good. This time he did say Thank You.

I myself still 1) always thank my wife for the cooking she does (I'm so fortunate that she is an excellent cook), 2) open doors for her, and 3) stand when she leaves the table in a restaurant to go to the bathroom, and pull out the chair for her when she returns. While those are old fashioned gestures, I'll never change, as that is the way I was raised. I also do just about all of the other household chores. I don't mind at all.

And of course I am happily showing the respect she deserves.

As the old saying goes, "Need to keep the woman happy". Amen to that!

I tell my husband thank you all the time when he works hard for us or helps me. I think both men and women should get appreciated. This world is getting so greedy many just expect, rather than be graciously humble and grateful.