Why Did Apple Do This?

[gavroche]

Really? Tell that to Sprint who is TBD on the end date for CDMA.

1) 80-85% of wireless networks in the world use GSM. And the percentage is growing. Apple merely sees the handwriting on the wall, and are preparing for what the foresee happening.
2) You can be sure Apple is not making decisions about what they are doing without discussing it with two of the major US carriers. Or do you think they are just making such important decisions with no communication at all?
3) They will most definitely offer phones that work on the big US carriers. As long as Sprint or Verizon have CDMA systems, Apple will have phones that are compatible.

Edit: I suppose you are saying then that if in two years no major US carrier, and no international carrier of importance, is using CDMA... Apple should continue to use Qualcomm, and charge ALL of us higher prices, just... because. Ok.

 

[C DM]

That is a conspiracy. A fact is that Apple influences the market.

The analogy wasn't so much about that aspect of it, as much as it was about the likelihood of it based on the known and available information that more than covers it all. But, sure, even the conspiracy part can play a role in the sense that just because Apple has influences doesn't mean that everything that happens is influenced by Apppe.

 

[Septembersrain]

1) 80-85% of wireless networks in the world use GSM. And the percentage is growing. Apple merely sees the handwriting on the wall, and are preparing for what the foresee happening.
2) You can be sure Apple is not making decisions about what they are doing without discussing it with two of the major US carriers. Or do you think they are just making such important decisions with no communication at all?
3) They will most definitely offer phones that work on the big US carriers. As long as Sprint or Verizon have CDMA systems, Apple will have phones that are compatible.

Edit: I suppose you are saying then that if in two years no major US carrier, and no international carrier of importance, is using CDMA... Apple should continue to use Qualcomm, and charge ALL of us higher prices, just... because. Ok.

Not just because. If they provide the better product, isn't it a little troubling that they can tell Qualcomm they charge too much? Like Apple will care if we say you charge too much? It's about the fact that they didn't even take them to court before stopping payments AND modifying their modems.

Imagine if I refused to pay rent, then remodeled my apartment. I'd be thrown under a bus twice to Wednesday. They need to sort this out, not push us into Intel so they can save a few bucks and earn a few more by raising prices too.

I'm sure Apple communicates with carriers. How much they actually do based on this communication is the big question.

80-85% isn't 100%.

I apologize for responding to your points a bit backwards. The edit part was the one I wanted to address most out of the whole post.

 

[Septembersrain]

The analogy wasn't so much about that aspect of it, as much as it was about the likelihood of it based on the known and available information that more than covers it all. But, sure, even the conspiracy part can play a role in the sense that just because Apple has influences doesn't mean that everything that happens is influenced by Apppe.

I didn't say that everything is influenced by Apple. I just said that they do influence, that they can and have. That they will if it's in their interests. They wouldn't be a huge corporation if they didn't try to influence a market to suit needs of the business in all aspects.

Don't get me wrong, it's not just Apple. I mean look at the bigger screen trend with Android. Apple jumped on board too. All of these big companies do it, right?

 

[C DM]

I didn't say that everything is influenced by Apple. I just said that they do influence, that they can and have. That they will if it's in their interests. They wouldn't be a huge corporation if they didn't try to influence a market to suit needs of the business in all aspects.

Don't get me wrong, it's not just Apple. I mean look at the bigger screen trend with Android. Apple jumped on board too. All of these big companies do it, right?

Sure, all that, but the main drivers in this case have been in place for a long time and had nothing to do with Apple.

 

[Superrjamz54]

I'm trying to say that Apple will force the hand in the demise of CDMA technology if they have their way won't they?

Glad to know Intel is cheaper, great to know they charge the same for the Qualcomm version. Apple lottery, we're all playing it.

Oh? No more Qualcomm but you need CDMA? Too bad.

Qualcomm charging too high of fees from a company that uses tax haven countries to avoid taxes? Of course they don't want to pay Qualcomm. It's not a coincidence that they stopped paying Qualcomm AND sold their flagship for 1k or more. Trillion dollar company for the win.

It should be ONE modem but my point was that Apple decided to fracture it into two models.

Yes, I voted with my wallet to a V30.

Samsung uses their Exynos chip for the same Damned reason. Just because in your world it’s perfectly okay to charge a price based on the see,one device of a phone no matter that the chip isn’t any different from another phone doesn’t mean everybody else does. Qualcomm is being greedy blame them for trying to screw over manufacturers. Just because LG wants to bend over backwards and pay the Qualcomm tax doesn’t mean every other manufacturer has to.

 

[Septembersrain]

Samsung uses their Exynos chip for the same Damned reason. Just because in your world it’s perfectly okay to charge a price based on the see,one device of a phone no matter that the chip isn’t any different from another phone doesn’t mean everybody else does. Qualcomm is being greedy blame them for trying to screw over manufacturers. Just because LG wants to bend over backwards and pay the Qualcomm tax doesn’t mean every other manufacturer has to.

That's the processor and most people say it's better than the Snapdragon. However the speed between the two isn't the issue.

My issue is the modem. The part of the phone you need for it to even function like a phone at all.

So for me, not having service in the middle of the country is scary. It's frustrating when a device that has the EXACT same modem performs better because one isn't crippled. The Qualcomm modem in the 8/8+/X is actually a really good one... Just not so good being hindered.

I can get a very low signal with my Note 3 out there, a decent one with my V30+ but none with iPhone 7 Plus. How is that even possible?

Oh wait, I know. They saved a few bucks with Intel!

Edit: I'm saying they should have taken this to court first before just throwing whatever Intel could make into the devices. Qualcomm might charge too much, I get that. They stopped royalties and crippled their modems? Then raised prices on the new iPhones too? Which company is really the bad guy here?

Sorry off topic a bit but I'm still hoping Intel gets it together. The day they don't cripple Qualcomm at all and Intel keeps up (and has CDMA if we still need it) I'll be accepting.

 

[Superrjamz54]

That's the processor and most people say it's better than the Snapdragon. However the speed between the two isn't the issue.

My issue is the modem. The part of the phone you need for it to even function like a phone at all.

So for me, not having service in the middle of the country is scary. It's frustrating when a device that has the EXACT same modem performs better because one isn't crippled.

I can get a very low signal with my Note 3 out there, a decent one with my V30+ but none with iPhone 7 Plus. How is that even possible?

Oh wait, I know. They saved a few bucks with Intel!

The Exynos chip doesn’t use any Qualcomm modem hence its not sold in the US. Why do I get better reception on my Intel X then my Qualcomm V30? So again it’s perfectly okay for a modem manufacturer to fleece everybody because they have the ability to do so.

 

[Septembersrain]

Sure, all that, but the main drivers in this case have been in place for a long time and had nothing to do with Apple.

I'm still frustrated that they would choose a chip maker who can't have CDMA then charge the same price. One model can work on every carrier, one cannot.

CDMA is not gone yet but if they want to cut off Qualcomm who holds the patents, what can Intel do?

If they can't do CDMA, what choice will Apple make here?

 

[Superrjamz54]

I'm still frustrated that they would choose a chip maker who can't have CDMA then charge the same price. One model can work on every carrier, one cannot.

CDMA is not gone yet but if they want to cut off Qualcomm who holds the patents, what can Intel do?

If they can't do CDMA, what choice will Apple make here?

At some point Qualcomm will realize that they will lose another battle and back down. It’s not like Qualcomm has an unlimited amount of time left screwing manufacturers over royalties. Why people thinks it perfectly okay to do this is beyond me.

 

[Septembersrain]

The Exynos chip doesn’t use any Qualcomm modem hence its not sold in the US. Why do I get better reception on my Intel X then my Qualcomm V30? So again it’s perfectly okay for a modem manufacturer to fleece everybody because they have the ability to do so.

You have an X and a V30? I'd love to see speed test comparisons under exact circumstances. Of course that's subjective. It's a lot different than me having a signal and having no service at all.

I'm not saying they are in the right here. Please read my words. I'm saying that Apple cutting off royalties and modifying Qualcomm's modems without even taking it to court is wrong.

Sure, fight them. Negotiate terms. Honor the agreement you have been paying all these years or take them before someone else to sort it all out for you.

Whatever you do, don't stiff your customers on a $1k device.

 

[Septembersrain]

At some point Qualcomm will realize that they will lose another battle and back down. It’s not like Qualcomm has an unlimited amount of time left screwing manufacturers over royalties. Why people thinks it perfectly okay to do this is beyond me.

Hello? Who said it's okay? I'm about as much okay with it as I am with buying an iPhone X with an Intel or crippled Qualcomm modem missing antennas. I'm not. That's why I have the V30+ now.

I'm saying that they need to do this fairly. Take them to court. Don't drop payments and modify their hardware to tailor your needs.

They are both liable for the decisions they make financially. Agreements should be upheld or challenged in the system. Not Apple deciding "I pay too much, I'm just going to stop but hey... We still need a few for CDMA but we are going to cripple it a bit to be on par with Intel. You cool?".

 

[Superrjamz54]

You have an X and a V30? I'd love to see speed test comparisons under exact circumstances. Of course that's subjective. It's a lot different than me having a signal and having no service at all.

I'm not saying they are in the right here. Please read my words. I'm saying that Apple cutting off royalties and modifying Qualcomm's modems without even taking it to court is wrong.

Sure, fight them. Negotiate terms. Honor the agreement you have been paying all these years or take them before someone else to sort it.

Whatever you do, don't stiff your customers on a $1k device.

Apple is suing Qualcomm. Qualcomm will not negotiate terms at all. Hence Samsung using their non-Qualcomm Exynos chip wherever they can and Apple using Intel. This years Intel chip is noticeably better then last years. Apple wants to pay a flat fee, Qualcomm wants to **** over as many manufacturers as possible. They refuse to change their ways. As for lack of service, there are plenty of areas where my carrier doesn’t have any service is that now Apples fault as well.
[doublepost=1511679479][/doublepost]

Hello? Who said it's okay? I'm about as much okay with it as I am with buying an iPhone X with an Intel or crippled Qualcomm modem missing antennas. I'm not. That's why I have the V30+ now.

I'm saying that they need to do this fairly. Take them to court. Don't drop payments and modify their hardware to tailor your needs.

They are both liable for the decisions they make financially. Agreements should be upheld or challenged in the system. Not Apple deciding "I pay too much, I'm just going to stop but hey... We still need a few for CDMA but we are going to cripple it a bit to be on par with Intel. You cool?".

Samsung’s Qualcomm chip is missing antennas compared to the V30 is that perfectly okay also. Same chip afterall by the same manufacturer.

 

[Septembersrain]

Apple is suing Qualcomm. Qualcomm will not negotiate terms at all. Hence Samsung using their non-Qualcomm Exynos chip wherever they can and Apple using Intel. This years Intel chip is noticeably better then last years. Apple wants to pay a flat fee, Qualcomm wants to **** over as many manufacturers as possible. They refuse to change their ways. As for lack of service, there are plenty of areas where my carrier doesn’t have any service is that now Apples fault as well.

No, it's not. It's when a friend with the X borrows my V30 to make a call that I look to Apple for fault.

I get that they don't want to pay Qualcomm. I get that they charge too much. What I don't get it why they modify their modems, stop paying royalties, and still think negotiating is fair?

I don't blame Qualcomm on that. I'd be pissed if someone was buying cars from me to resell, then decided they were paying too much so they dropped payments. Then they modified the cars because they "ran too good" and didn't match the cheaper cars they started selling.

 

[Septembersrain]

Apple is suing Qualcomm. Qualcomm will not negotiate terms at all. Hence Samsung using their non-Qualcomm Exynos chip wherever they can and Apple using Intel. This years Intel chip is noticeably better then last years. Apple wants to pay a flat fee, Qualcomm wants to **** over as many manufacturers as possible. They refuse to change their ways. As for lack of service, there are plenty of areas where my carrier doesn’t have any service is that now Apples fault as well.
[doublepost=1511679479][/doublepost]
Samsung’s Qualcomm chip is missing antennas compared to the V30 is that perfectly okay also. Same chip afterall by the same manufacturer.

One band and it was because the device came out before it was even widely known T-Mobile needed it.

The 8/8+/X all came after that.

Band 71 isn't even that important yet. The antenna in my Note 3 missing a lot of the newer bands still gets service where my 7 Plus doesn't. It's frustrating!

I'm less on Qualcomms side than you think, I'm just not on Apple's either. Or Intel for that matter.

 

[Superrjamz54]

One band and it was because the device came out before it was even widely known T-Mobile needed it.

The 8/8+/X all came after that.

Band 71 isn't even that important yet. The antenna in my Note 3 missing a lot of the newer bands still gets service where my 7 Plus doesn't. It's frustrating!

I'm less on Qualcomms side than you think, I'm just not on Apple's either. Or Intel for that matter.

T-Mobile had the announcement months before the X and the Note 8. I never had any issues with the Intel modem the last 2 years maybe there’s something wrong with your carrier. So it’s okay for a manufacturer to charge whatever they want, will not ever under any circumstances change their fees no matter how many different manufacturers and countries complain about it force companies to sue over it and then complain when those manufacturers choose to go someplace else? I would be pissed if the only reason for my existence was being taken away from me. I would also try to change my ways before I was sold to the lowest bidder.
Do you think that Apple did this blindly? Apple hasn’t officially said they have modified anything. Intel is a new manufacturer in this area hence they need to catch up. Qualcomm is up for sale due to their outdated business practices. Apple tried to get Qualcomm to change, but Qualcomm would rather lose business then actually modify their structure. Their tech was supposed to be FRAND, this isn’t howmFRAND is supposedly,work. Imagine buying a new car and the battery gets more expensive with every single option you add to the car including paint and trim even though the same battery is used for all options.

 

[Septembersrain]

T-Mobile had the announcement months before the X and the Note 8. I never had any issues with the Intel modem the last 2 years maybe there’s something wrong with your carrier. So it’s okay for a manufacturer to charge whatever they want, will not ever under any circumstances change their fees no matter how many different manufacturers and countries complain about it force companies to sue over it and then complain when those manufacturers choose to go someplace else? I would be pissed if the only reason for my existence was being taken away from me. I would also try to change my ways before I was sold to the lowest bidder.
Do you think that Apple did this blindly? Apple hasn’t officially said they have modified anything. Intel is a new manufacturer in this area hence they need to catch up. Qualcomm is up for sale due to their outdated business practices. Apple tried to get Qualcomm to change, but Qualcomm would rather lose business then actually modify their structure. Their tech was supposed to be FRAND, this isn’t howmFRAND is supposedly,work. Imagine buying a new car and the battery gets more expensive with every single option you add to the car including paint and trim even though the same battery is used for all options.

They should have battled it in court.

That's all.

Have a good evening... Morning.. Day...
Whatever it is there.

 

[Superrjamz54]

They should have battled it in court.

That's all.

Have a good evening... Morning.. Day...
Whatever it is there.

They will at some point. It takes years for that to happen and even longer to get a final judgement. Gee whiz. Apple didn’t want to wait a decade or so would you want to be screwed over for decades just because a company decides that since they are the only one who can license the tech therefore they can screw you over.

 

[Septembersrain]

They will at some point. It takes years for that to happen and even longer to get a final judgement. Gee whiz. Apple didn’t want to wait a decade or so would you want to be screwed over for decades just because a company decides that since they are the only one who can license the tech therefore they can screw you over.

Kinda how I feel about iOS. They are the only ones who sell me iOS, so they can charge whatever they want. That's different because it's Apple, right?

Geez, it's like 1:30 AM.

I still believe even if they have to wait, better to pay now and win in court.
Well, not like they want to pay, that's obvious by their tax decisions.

 

[Superrjamz54]

Kinda how I feel about iOS. They are the only ones who sell me iOS, so they can charge whatever they want. That's different because it's Apple, right?

Geez, it's like 1:30 AM.

I still believe even if they have to wait, better to pay now and win in court.
Well, not like they want to pay, that's obvious by their tax decisions.

A win in court would not make a difference if they have already paid for it. It would be too little too late. By the time anything is settled, CDMA will be an out of date technology. Qualcomm has multiple lawsuits in multiple countries regarding this very issue. Apple isn’t the only one complaining, they and a Samsung are the only ones who are trying to buck them and Qualcomm will not allow Samsung to sell Exynos chips to any body else. Talk about stifling tech even if the tech doesn’t work on your proprietary system.
Every single company tries to pay as little tax as possible, but its only wrong for Apple to do it.
Apple charges what the market will bear otherwise they wouldn’t be selling as many products as they do.

 

[Septembersrain]

A win in court would not make a difference if they have already paid for it. It would be too little too late. By the time anything is settled, CDMA will be an out of date technology. Qualcomm has multiple lawsuits in multiple countries regarding this very issue. Apple isn’t the only one complaining, they and a Samsung are the only ones who are trying to buck them and Qualcomm will not allow Samsung to sell Exynos chips to any body else. Talk about stifling tech even if the tech doesn’t work on your proprietary system.
Every single company tries to pay as little tax as possible, but its only wrong for Apple to do it.
Apple charges what the market will bear otherwise they wouldn’t be selling as many products as they do.

A win in court would see back payments either to Apple or Qualcomm based on ruling.

They might be complaining, sure. So it's still cool to use their modems but not pay for them and/or modify them to make their function decrease?

I'm sorry but when dealerships add things on cars they are selling, it's to make them more desirable. Not gimp them into oblivion.

Tech is stifled no matter what. The patent system is to blame for that. If it's okay Apple is using tax loopholes, it must also be okay that Qualcomm is using the patent system to their benefit as well.

Of course Apple charges as much as the market can bear, they haven't found that line yet! If they do, you'll know it right away. Doesn't mean they aren't getting greedy just like Qualcomm...

Apologists... Gee wiz.

 

[Superrjamz54]

A win in court would see back payments either to Apple or Qualcomm based on ruling.

They might be complaining, sure. So it's still cool to use their modems but not pay for them and/or modify them to make their function decrease?

I'm sorry but when dealerships add things on cars they are selling, it's to make them more desirable. Not gimp them into oblivion.

Tech is stifled no matter what. The patent system is to blame for that. If it's okay Apple is using tax loopholes, it must also be okay that Qualcomm is using the patent system to their benefit as well.

Of course Apple charges as much as the market can bear, they haven't found that line yet! If they do, you'll know it right away. Doesn't mean they aren't getting greedy just like Qualcomm...

Apologists... Gee wiz.

Apple has never said they are gimping anything and they have the right to do so. Companies modify the hardware all the time for their specifications. Just like Samsung is selling screens to Apple. A win will take a decade or so. Which would allow Qualcomm to keep screwing over every single manufacturer out there and go against every single countries regulations including America just because they can. It’s okay for Google to use the same loopholes along with Microsoft and every single other corporation out there in the world. Qualcomm is going against FRAND regarding their patents. You do know tha Qualcomm owes Apple a billion dollars and refuses to pay Apple. It goes both ways. The only money Qualcomm can get is based on Whatever Verizon or Sprint phones are sold. So why should Apple or anybody be required to use a Qualcomm chip in every phone which is exactly what Qualcomm wants and why Qualcomm refuses to allow Samsung to sell Exynos chips to other manufacturers. This is a moot point after 2019 when Verizon closes CDMA network down and Qualcomm knows their golden goose is gone.

 

[Septembersrain]

Apple has never said they are gimping anything and they have the right to do so. Companies modify the hardware all the time for their specifications. Just like Samsung is selling screens to Apple. A win will take a decade or so. Which would allow Qualcomm to keep screwing over every single manufacturer out there and go against every single countries regulations including America just because they can. It’s okay for Google to use the same loopholes along with Microsoft and every single other corporation out there in the world. Qualcomm is going against FRAND regarding their patents. You do know tha Qualcomm owes Apple a billion dollars and refuses to pay Apple. It goes both ways. The only money Qualcomm can get is based on Whatever Verizon or Sprint phones are sold. So why should Apple or anybody be required to use a Qualcomm chip in every phone which is exactly what Qualcomm wants and why Qualcomm refuses to allow Samsung to sell Exynos chips to other manufacturers. This is a moot point after 2019 when Verizon closes CDMA network down and Qualcomm knows their golden goose is gone.

Apple didn't have to, a tear down on the darn devices themselves proved that.

Once again, I'm not in with Qualcomm either. You keep solidifying Apple while I'm not trying to solidify Qualcomm.

I just want the best modem in my phone so I can use my service to the best of its capabilities.

Is that simple enough of a stance?

Pay them, don't pay them, modify stuff, technical jargon, deflection, wherever this conversation is going... I just want a damn phone that works properly on my service.

I am not happy I had to switch back to Android just to get it.

 

[Superrjamz54]

Apple didn't have to, a tear down on the darn devices themselves proved that.

Once again, I'm not in with Qualcomm either. You keep solidifying Apple while I'm not trying to solidify Qualcomm.

I just want the best modem in my phone so I can use my service to the best of its capabilities.

Is that simple enough of a stance?

Pay them, don't pay them, modify stuff, technical jargon, deflection, wherever this conversation is going... I just want a damn phone that works properly on my service.

I am not happy I had to switch back to Android just to get it.

I have never had any issue with the Intel phone this year or last year maybe you should ask your carrier why their coverage sucks crap. You have not proven anything you are not an engineer for Qualcomm. Apple is allowed to modify hardware otherwise Samsung would be suing them for modifying heir display. Why isn’t Qualcomm suing Samsung for removing quick charge capability on the S7 just because the
Exynos chip is incapable of it. If you want Apple to pay Qualcomm then keep crying maybe somebody will listen to you. Qualcomm also owes Apple big money it goes both ways. As I said earlier I get better reception on my X compared with my V30. It all depends on the area and the carrier. It sucks. Can’t wait until Verizon and Sprint shut down their CDMA network and then this will go away.

 

[Septembersrain]

I have never had any issue with the Intel phone this year or last year maybe you should ask your carrier why their coverage sucks crap. You have not proven anything you are not an engineer for Qualcomm. Apple is allowed to modify hardware otherwise Samsung would be suing them for modifying heir display. Why isn’t Qualcomm suing Samsung for removing quick charge capability on the S7 just because the
Exynos chip is incapable of it. If you want Apple to pay Qualcomm then keep crying maybe somebody will listen to you. Qualcomm also owes Apple big money it goes both ways. As I said earlier I get better reception on my X compared with my V30. It all depends on the area and the carrier. It sucks. Can’t wait until Verizon and Sprint shut down their CDMA network and then this will go away.

You didn't have any issues, that doesn't mean others don't.

My issue isn't that they are modifying them. It's that they are CRIPPLING them. There is a huge difference between making a product better or gimping it.

Why would I switch carriers when my V30+ does fine? The best iPhone modem has 4x4 MIMO/256 QAM and no one can use it. Why? Oh, Apple decided to use Intel as the standard so Qualcomm modems got cut down to size. Does that seem fair?

I'm pretty sure you'll just continue to say the same things. No matter what, we can't agree.

You still haven't shown me where the X outperforms the V30. I have so many posts on here showing my progress between the two.

On that, I'm not going to apologize for Apple, Qualcomm or Intel. I just want the best modem in the most expensive device to be on par. Simple as that.