Why did Apple omit Rosetta?

[thejadedmonkey]

Sometimes I miss MS-DOS but really... I thought *I* was the king at resisting change. I humbly yield that title.





Oops. I hit a nerve with all the neggers here. Don't know why it hurts so much to know OSX users are the minority.

See, the problem is that you look at this like supporting MS-DOS is a bad thing. I however, run Dosbox on my PC all of the time, so that I can play Warcraft II. It's my favorite game. I could buy the Win32 version, but why bother when I have the DOS version?

Without Rosetta, I can't run Diablo, Warcraft, and many other non-still-supported, but good programs. Just because the developer doesn't actively support it doesn't mean it's useless or obsolite.

I really wish all you Rosetta haters would get off your high horses and acknowledge that sometimes, people want to run programs that haven't been written in the past 6 years.

 

[Biolizard]

Obviously all the fanboys are home users and have never run a business.

Apple's tech is clearly oriented towards consumers. They might make the odd gesture towards enterprise, but consumer technology is where Apple makes their money and consumers don't care so much about backward compatibility; they want new features and that sometimes means deprecating old ones.

If backwards compatibility means that much to you, either don't run Lion or go Microsoft, who bend over backwards for their customers' requirements (and my respect goes to them for doing so).

See, the problem is that you look at this like supporting MS-DOS is a bad thing. I however, run Dosbox on my PC all of the time, so that I can play Warcraft II. It's my favorite game. I could buy the Win32 version, but why bother when I have the DOS version?

Without Rosetta, I can't run Diablo, Warcraft, and many other non-still-supported, but good programs. Just because the developer doesn't actively support it doesn't mean it's useless or obsolite.

I really wish all you Rosetta haters would get off your high horses and acknowledge that sometimes, people want to run programs that haven't been written in the past 6 years.

DOSBox is open source. Is there anything stopping someone from building an open source equivalent to Rosetta if you care for it that much?
Alternatively, keep a Snow Leopard install or dedicated box. I still have a PC with XP SP3 for my post-millennium games that won't run on 7 or in a VM.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

DOSBox is open source. Is there anything stopping someone from building an open source equivalent to Rosetta if you care for it that much?
Alternatively, keep a Snow Leopard install or dedicated box. I still have a PC with XP SP3 for my post-millennium games that won't run on 7 or in a VM.

DOS is based off of CP/M, which is open sourced (and sooo much smaller, <1mb). If Apple could open source their OS, there's no reason why people couldn't make an emulator. But since Apple doesn't... you can't really re-create it without going through the same sort of trouble that the WINE project has on Linux.

 

[iFanboy]

Well, it was already there in the code from SL, so why remove it if doesn't require any work to have PPC support in Lion?

It's like removing iWeb from Lion just because not many people use it anymore, but it doesn't require any work to have it in Lion?

This is a stupid argument.

Operating systems evolve. The code evolves. To leave Rosetta in would mean constantly working around legacy code to ensure that apps made for 2005 still work in 2011. It would hinder wider development to ensure that a minority of mac users could used software that is not designed for their system.

 

[Morris]

DOS is based off of CP/M, which is open sourced (and sooo much smaller, <1mb). If Apple could open source their OS, there's no reason why people couldn't make an emulator. But since Apple doesn't... you can't really re-create it without going through the same sort of trouble that the WINE project has on Linux.

If someone really wanted to they could download the OS X source and build their own implementation.

But you know what? It appears very few people care about Rosetta and nobody wants to develop it.

 

[Hugh]

I too have a use for Rosetta, I use a lot of emulators that are still PPC. But I know it's time to move on, 5 years gave those making those emulators time to take it to Intel. If not, then I guess I would be using them any more. :/

Hugh

 

[thejadedmonkey]

If someone really wanted to they could download the OS X source and build their own implementation.

But you know what? It appears very few people care about Rosetta and nobody wants to develop it.

The source for the kernel exists. That doesn't mean the source for anything else exists as open source. Believe me, if someone could use that open source code to build OS X and omit the TMP so it could run on any hardware, it would have been done. years ago.

 

[wackymacky]

What about developers that have gone out of business?

I have a piece of perfectly good hardware that relies on a software written for PPC machines.

Luckily there was a windows version too which I have to use under Parallels but if there wasn't one it would mean my hardware would be scrap.

Your hardware would be scrap? You're saying you're fool enough to update your OS full knowing that critical software you depend on would fail?

But is that Apple's fault when developers have not updated their programs and are relying on PPC code instead of the intel platform. Apple announced the transition to intel in 2005 and the first intel Macs were in 2006. That's 5 years ago. Clearly developers had plenty of opportunity to update their apps in 5 years

The issue with some apps that have 95% of users on Windows OS machines is they still really find it hard to be bothered and perhaps resent coding for OSX.

This becomes an issue when you want to own a Mac but your work environment wants apps that aren’t non PCC supported.

I have a couple of these Apps currently that I'm thinking of a solution around before upgrading to Lion
.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

See, the problem is that you look at this like supporting MS-DOS is a bad thing. I however, run Dosbox on my PC all of the time, so that I can play Warcraft II. It's my favorite game. I could buy the Win32 version, but why bother when I have the DOS version?

Without Rosetta, I can't run Diablo, Warcraft, and many other non-still-supported, but good programs. Just because the developer doesn't actively support it doesn't mean it's useless or obsolite.

Supporting MS-DOS in a virtual machine with no Internet access could be OK. Supporting MS-DOS programs natively forever is unwise. You can't build a secure environment and have full DOS compatibility. Microsoft finally bit the bullet with Vista and 7 and caught a lot of hell for it-- but, for once, MS did the right thing. You can't build a secure environment that way. Supporting insecurity is a bad thing.

I really wish all you Rosetta haters would get off your high horses and acknowledge that sometimes, people want to run programs that haven't been written in the past 6 years.

Rosetta doesn't run in the kind of secure environment for processes that Lion is pushing towards. Security does matter. I am really glad that Apple, like Microsoft, is finally taking security seriously-- yes, that is a good thing.
(Ex cathedra, on a high horse.)

 

[RafaelT]

Practically 0%?

How many people bought a Mac for music production?

The Jam Packs that comes with Logic Pro, fail to install because it needs PPC support. This is just an example of why your 0% claim is wrong.

( I heard there is some workaround for it, but I haven't tried it yet )

Obviously all the fanboys are home users and have never run a business.

Maybe you should start using modern software from reputable companies who are going to keep their stuff up to date. It's really not Apple's fault if you buy software from a company who decides not to issue regular updates.

I run a business using nothing but MacBook Pro's, iPad's and iPod Touch's... works for me!

 

[InuNacho]

I really wish all you Rosetta haters would get off your high horses and acknowledge that sometimes, people want to run programs that haven't been written in the past 6 years.

Right on brother.
I still run the original Photoshop CS because I see no need to spend a few hundred bucks upgrading something I use once or twice a month.

 

[0007776]

I really wish all you Rosetta haters would get off your high horses and acknowledge that sometimes, people want to run programs that haven't been written in the past 6 years.

If you want to run that old of programs, they should run just as well on an old PPC computer. There's no need for new hardware if you're running old apps.

 

[ljonesj]

Well what about old games that use ppc like diablo 2 and such they say warcraft 3 can be used but the updater does not work. then wow they did drop ppc in a patch to wraith of the lich king a couple of months before cata.

 

[movieator]

"Why did Apple get rid of 3.5 inch floppies and the 56K modem?"

Progress. Some companies haven't caught up after 5 years, it's not Apple's problem.

 

[mark28]

Maybe you should start using modern software from reputable companies who are going to keep their stuff up to date. It's really not Apple's fault if you buy software from a company who decides not to issue regular updates.

I run a business using nothing but MacBook Pro's, iPad's and iPod Touch's... works for me!

You're saying Apple is not a reputable software company now? Check the Apple site and look for Logic 9 and see that it is made by Apple.

Logic 9 is a modern piece of software.

 

[Soliber]

Obviously all the fanboys are home users and have never run a business.

Apparently neither have you. Businesses are suppose to be agile, to be able to compete with the ever changing market in which they reside. If something like Rosetta going EOL catches you off guard as a business, than you probably have bigger problems already.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I've heard there were licensing issues with Rosetta.

That just made me laugh. Rosetta is Apple's own technology.

However, seriously people, Rosetta was withdrawn because Apple want you to move on. Put AppleWorks down, it is ancient.

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Apparently neither have you. Businesses are suppose to be agile, to be able to compete with the ever changing market in which they reside. If something like Rosetta going EOL catches you off guard as a business, than you probably have bigger problems already.

Hmmmm, businesses generally like proven technology and are slow to update. (Witness the number of businesses still running Win XP SP2 and IE6, despite SP2 no longer being in support). If something works they don't like to change it.

That said, most apps nowadays have been universal for a number of years.

 

[Soliber]

I know that businesses like predictability, no doubt. But predictability is an illusion. The only constant in business is change: ideas change, priorities change, technologies change and this from one day to the next.
As a business, you can try to fight this, but it won't work and you'll waste a lot of time, energy and money.
Like I said, in order to succeed long term, businesses need to be agile and nimble, they have to prepare for and embrace change.

I mean, be reasonable. If you have an organization which is reliant on Rosetta, I cannot fathom that there would be no one to stop and think "this is legacy stuff, we need an exit strategy".

Anecdote: we were ready to embrace WPF for example. But since it's continued existence in its current form is uncertain, we're monitoring the situation and temporarily shifting to alternatives.

 

[arubinst]

That just made me laugh. Rosetta is Apple's own technology.

However, seriously people, Rosetta was withdrawn because Apple want you to move on. Put AppleWorks down, it is ancient.

----------

Now you just made me laugh . Rosetta is not Apple's own technology. Its real name is QuickTransit and it was developed by the University of Manchester and licensed by Apple and many others. The technology actually belongs to IBM since 2009 which might be the real reason behind the disappearance of Rosetta in Lion.

In any case, it has nothing to do with Apple "wanting you to move on".

 

[luist3k]

People will complaint now or if Apple retired Rosetta in 2015 or even later. So it´s better now and for good.

If there is demand for a product, producers will surface.

 

[Lokheed]

I'm actually more pissed off that Apple started putting TFT screens in their iMacs! Remember the Mac Classic? It had a gorgeous monochromatic CRT in it! Just gorgeous... and now, everything is LCD. Sharper, less eye strain, better on power, better for your eyes, less radiation... just crap.

Apple sucks. They just want to wipe CRT off the face of this earth and make me buy new stuff. I hate them. I own an iPhone, a Mac, an AirPort router, and an iPod and I hate Apple so much!

 

[Mr.C]

I'm actually more pissed off that Apple started putting TFT screens in their iMacs! Remember the Mac Classic? It had a gorgeous monochromatic CRT in it! Just gorgeous... and now, everything is LCD. Sharper, less eye strain, better on power, better for your eyes, less radiation... just crap.

Apple sucks. They just want to wipe CRT off the face of this earth and make me buy new stuff. I hate them. I own an iPhone, a Mac, an AirPort router, and an iPod and I hate Apple so much!

If I didn't know any better I would think you're being serious.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Well, it was already there in the code from SL, so why remove it if doesn't require any work to have PPC support in Lion?

It's like removing iWeb from Lion just because not many people use it anymore, but it doesn't require any work to have it in Lion?

Is there some reason that you need to upgrade to Lion? If not, then Snow Leopard is still a very usable OS and you don't loose Rosetta. There, problem solved.

I think it is really interesting how people complain about something that was known about months before Apple released Lion. Developers also knew about this even further back. If developers did not bother to update their applications then that is their fault, not Apple.

 

[xraydoc]

Do what businesses do - deploy machines with a 10 year old operating system like Windows XP to continue running ancient software.

Or, upgrade your main machine to use new software/hardware and keep the old one running an older OS to use your old software/hardware.

But don't expect the newest, latest machines requiring the newest OS to run to be 100% backwards compatible with 7 year old apps and hardware whose developers have dropped support.

 

[maflynn]

People will complaint now or if Apple retired Rosetta in 2015 or even later. So it´s better now and for good.

That's it, why wait another 4 years when clearly the vendors/developers had ample time to update/recompile their apps. At this point if you have a mission critical application that won't run on Lion, you stay with Snow Leopard, or you find a way to "hack" rosetta to work with Lion. From what I've read its possible with a minimal amount of work.