Why do you hate Windows (especially Vista)?

[Melrose]

I am finding this to be more true as I interact with mac users.

@melrose have you ever built a computer?

No - But I've had them apart, replaced drives, RAM, discs, manually updated and cleaned the registry, etc etc.. However when I say "Computer-savvy" I mean actually using it - If you can assemble one blindfolded with one arm behind your back you're just an assembler.

I may stand corrected on the issue of which type of user is more savvy about it though - people that I know that have Macs are more knowledgeable about the system; folks that use Windows are like "Uh, I do emails" and they buy one at Circuit City and call Google the internet. You know? It may be different in other areas, or depending on the crowd you're in.

@No1451: I didn't meant to seem overdone two posts back... It gets me riled up is all.

 

[yatman]

opinion

Touching on a few points:

- Poor UI design is a matter of opinion - just like when two people can look at a piece of art and one person hates it and the other likes it.

- Registy, dll, "legacy bloat": uh what does the average word, photoshop, excel, browser, (pick an app) user care about that stuff and how does it affect them exactly?

Given the sheer volume of shareware apps on the market (and i'm not judging anyone's development background or abilities ), I think it'd be safe to argue that some applications are just not built to the same standards as others.

- Hard to shutdown?? Press the power button one time! Vista and XP can both be configured to shut off the PC or hibernate the PC with one press. As for the UI. Go to start menu and press the power icon in vista. Is that any different than going to the apple menu and selecting shutdown??? I count two clicks for both.

- Auto Reboot?? Anyone using a DVR knows that reboots are deadly to recording that episode of Prison Break. My PC is never turned off and it has yet to reboot on it's own. You need to check your configuration settings. You can set the automatic updates to not install, not reboot, or whatever. If you're too lazy to set that up, then don't complain that the computer is doing what it's configured to do. And the fact that the default setting is the issue - seriously?? If you ask 10 people what they thought, 5 would say to go one way and 5 would say go the other. Get over it.

- Incompatibility with hardware; Granted Vista did require some hardware upgrades and even incompatibilities with older devices of a certain nature but XP works fine with older products. But while you're trying to hook your laserjet2 up to Vista, you might want to rethink that brick of a printer and get something a little more efficient, quiet, and faster.

- Hardcore multimedia capabilities: Yes the mac can act as a dvr. True. How many people are able to use their mac as a full-time dvr, video input device, personal computer, dvd "ahem-backup" machine, and gaming device all at the same time? I've had a dual core 3Ghz machine recording to the hard drive, "backing up" a dvd that i own, streaming a TiVo signal into a window, and running Powerpoint all at the same time and I've been doing this for 2 years since Vista ultimate came out. Not 1 hiccup - I don't do shareware typically.

- Nag you with stupid baloon tip messages: Uh I've had my macbook pro for about a week now and I've been asked about 15 to 20 times for my stupid password just to install an application? That's different how exactly?

- Prone to viruses or browser exploits: Seriously? If the shoe were on the other foot and Mac systems had market share, I don't think anyone would argue that you'd have those same people directing their efforts toward loopholes in the mac os and exploiting them. It's human nature to want to rock the system and right now the "system" is Windows/Microsoft.

- Not create a UI to disable/remove a laptop's IR sensor: Is this really a deal breaker?? Seriously? Haven't owned many laptops but I know that almost every business laptop I've been given at work didn't even have an IR port. So can we get some perspective?!

All that being said, I have seen many-a-mac users (I'm one now too) go around bashing windows because of what others have heard or believe and even maybe based on an isolated incident (such as Mr. Reboot By Itself) but it boils down to applications and usability. I've got Office installed on my OSX side and on the Bootcamp Vista side. I don't see a difference. Firefox is the same, Chrome is the same, and Safari is the same too. So which is better?

Neither in my opinion. They both do what they need to do. But I'm definitely sticking with my Vista box for all my multimedia stuff.

 

[Melrose]

^^ I am beginning to believe that Windows users think the only proper application of question marks is to use them multiple times.

(Um, seriously?????)

 

[yatman]

???

Well seeing as how I'm now a Mac user as well, I guess that statement can now be directed towards Mac users?

???

Glad to be bringing down the neighborhood.

 

[ravenvii]

Touching on a few points:
- Registy, dll, "legacy bloat": uh what does the average word, photoshop, excel, browser, (pick an app) user care about that stuff and how does it affect them exactly?

Umm... when they start up their computer to play with Word and Excel, and find that there's a problem with a .dll file missing? They'd care, won't they?

- Auto Reboot?? Anyone using a DVR knows that reboots are deadly to recording that episode of Prison Break. My PC is never turned off and it has yet to reboot on it's own. You need to check your configuration settings. You can set the automatic updates to not install, not reboot, or whatever. If you're too lazy to set that up, then don't complain that the computer is doing what it's configured to do. And the fact that the default setting is the issue - seriously?? If you ask 10 people what they thought, 5 would say to go one way and 5 would say go the other. Get over it.

So I somehow am supposed to know that the default setting is to REBOOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, and it's somehow my fault that I didn't check every setting? I'd think it's better the other way around, if you want it to reboot by itself, you go and set it up. Instead of me having to redo a couple of levels all over again because the system rebooted without me knowing.

Reboot automatically by default is a BAD IDEA unless you consciously and knowingly go in and set it up to do that. Get over it.

- Nag you with stupid baloon tip messages: Uh I've had my macbook pro for about a week now and I've been asked about 15 to 20 times for my stupid password just to install an application? That's different how exactly?

Are you serious? You honestly don't see the difference? Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

- Prone to viruses or browser exploits: Seriously? If the shoe were on the other foot and Mac systems had market share, I don't think anyone would argue that you'd have those same people directing their efforts toward loopholes in the mac os and exploiting them. It's human nature to want to rock the system and right now the "system" is Windows/Microsoft.

*sigh* we're debunked that myth so many times, and yet it keeps coming up. It's annoying as hell.

(And before you go and act all smartass saying I didn't address your other points... That's because I either 1) am neutral, or 2) agree with you on those points.)

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So I somehow am supposed to know that the default setting is to REBOOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, and it's somehow my fault that I didn't check every setting? I'd think it's better the other way around, if you want it to reboot by itself, you go and set it up. Instead of me having to redo a couple of levels all over again because the system rebooted without me knowing.

Reboot automatically by default is a BAD IDEA unless you consciously and knowingly go in and set it up to do that. Get over it.

You keep saying that but you fail to see what it traces back to.

Most people might remember the MSblaster worm. That worm caused internet slow downs world wide at its peak which affect mac users. That worm caused Microsoft to massively delay XP service pack 2 and Vista.

And you want to hear the real kicker. it was patch MONTHS before MSblaster was ever made. Just many people did not update their computers. There is proof right that the general public are a bunch of idiots who clearly do not know how to install update nor ever bother 2. Solution change the default setting to auto install and reboot and they set it at 3AM.

For 90+% of people this is not a problem because they are in bed asleep. For the remaining 10% that might be using a computer 90% of them would know how to change the setting. so that leaves you with 1% of the people affected.

Really even at the 10% of people being affected by it that is a sure of a hell a lot better than another MSblaster out break caused by people not updating the computer. We have clear proof leave the people do it they can not. We most people never change the default settings. Change the default to the auto install and reboot and it solves a majority of the problems.

 

[fireshot91]

I'm pretty sure Windows comes with a Default update time set as 2:00 AM, and it auto-installs the updates at that time. I changed mine to 4:30, because I wake up at 6, and my computer's in my room, and it got a light up case, so yeah. But, I always make sure whenever I install Windows on ANY computer, to have the auto-update on and set for 3:00.

 

[ravenvii]

I'm pretty sure Windows comes with a Default update time set as 2:00 AM, and it auto-installs the updates at that time. I changed mine to 4:30, because I wake up at 6, and my computer's in my room, and it got a light up case, so yeah. But, I always make sure whenever I install Windows on ANY computer, to have the auto-update on and set for 3:00.

I'm perfectly fine with it auto-updating. But instead of rebooting by default, it should do like OS X does, just display a dialog saying that the OS has to reboot, you click OK, and off you go!

That's not so hard.

 

[yatman]

- The only time you launch excel, word, etc and get a dll error message is cause the user either deleted something, installed some lame app that corrupted something, or it flat out didn't install properly to begin with. None of which is an OS issue.

- So I somehow am supposed to know that the default setting is to REBOOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, and it's somehow my fault that I didn't check every setting?

So let me get this right - Reading the manual is NOT your fault? So by your line of thought does that mean that everything I find not working to my expectations in OSX (and there will be many as I am new to it) will be the fault of OSX because it's not working to MY expectations and it is not MY fault for not learning how to use it. Sweet! I like that argument.

BTW - you did see the other person's post that the OS DOES warn you every 5 minutes or so (like a snooze - and yes you can disable it) to reboot. So it won't flat out reboot without warning you. If you're in a game that's taking control of the screen, you may not see the warning because the game will take screen priority.

- Nag you with stupid baloon tip messages: Uh I've had my macbook pro for about a week now and I've been asked about 15 to 20 times for my stupid password just to install an application? That's different how exactly?

Are you serious? You honestly don't see the difference? Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

Nope - don't see the difference. Using TweakUAC, I'm only prompted when downloading something or installing something under Vista. Under XP, you're not prompted for even that in many cases. So when OSX asks me the SAME question I get asked in Vista, for the same reasons, then no, there's no difference and depending on your level of tolerance, it's either annoying or not. I'm ok with it warning me about a download or an install. I agree that the overkill on security questions in Vista was a stupid thing but easily controlled with TweakUAC (Which is not an application that stays up and running but allows for a single setting change and then exits).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I'm perfectly fine with it auto-updating. But instead of rebooting by default, it should do like OS X does, just display a dialog saying that the OS has to reboot, you click OK, and off you go!

That's not so hard.

Problem with that is you have to click OK when you want to use the computer and because of that most people will just hit cancel or do it later and you go back to the same problem as before.

Now a better choice would be have a pop up message that saws the computer will reboot in 30 sec unless *blank*

But clearly you option is not a good one because it leads to the same problem as before.

 

[yatman]

correction

I should point out that on the mac, there's 3 clicks to shut down the machine. You have to click the apple icon, click shutdown, and THEN confirm the shutdown a 3rd time. Granted it does have a timer and will shut down on it's own if left alone. But 3 clicks vs 2 for Vista which simply shuts down/hibernates/or sleeps - depending on how you configure it.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I should point out that on the mac, there's 3 clicks to shut down the machine. You have to click the apple icon, click shutdown, and THEN confirm the shutdown a 3rd time. Granted it does have a timer and will shut down on it's own if left alone. But 3 clicks vs 2 for Vista which simply shuts down/hibernates/or sleeps - depending on how you configure it.

Or you hit the power button and then select shut down... That's just one mouse click

 

[yatman]

enjoy the debate

Hey Romiz - being new to OSX, do you have specific examples of where this is true. I don't have many apps for OSX to compare against other than Office, limewire and a few different browsers. So -pardon the pun - i can't compare apples to apples. It appears that the office suite functions the same requires the same shortcuts and keystrokes, and the experience seems pretty much the same.

Do you have specific examples that I can look into and do more relative comparison?

Thanks (looks like we're both newbies according to the notation next to our names)

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Hey Romiz - being new to OSX, do you have specific examples of where this is true. I don't have many apps for OSX to compare against other than Office, limewire and a few different browsers. So -pardon the pun - i can't compare apples to apples. It appears that the office suite functions the same requires the same shortcuts and keystrokes, and the experience seems pretty much the same.

Do you have specific examples that I can look into and do more relative comparison?

Thanks (looks like we're both newbies according to the notation next to our names)

finding files (although it's pretty much the same in vista now, just a little more robust in OS X)

making short movies, editing, tagging and organizing photos and music.

or adjusting settings, The control panel is much harder to use than system preferences.

 

[stomer]

Touching on a few points:
- Poor UI design is a matter of opinion - just like when two people can look at a piece of art and one person hates it and the other likes it.

It's not a matter of opinion, it either is or isn't. UI isn't art.

- Registy, dll, "legacy bloat": uh what does the average word, photoshop, excel, browser, (pick an app) user care about that stuff and how does it affect them exactly?

Because there is no real enforcement of the removal of registry entries, programs that are uninstalled can still leave behind stale registry entries. The registry can become too large and generally slow down a users machine. Also, it's never a good idea to have all of your eggs in one basket. A corrupt registry means you have a machine that won't boot.
Even MS developers realise that the registry has problems.

- Hard to shutdown?? Press the power button one time! Vista and XP can both be configured to shut off the PC or hibernate the PC with one press. As for the UI. Go to start menu and press the power icon in vista. Is that any different than going to the apple menu and selecting shutdown??? I count two clicks for both.

The power button on a laptop should shutdown the machine by default. That's how it's always been, that's how it should be. This blog post explains fully why Vista's shutdown menu is a complete UI disaster: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/21.html

- Auto Reboot?? Anyone using a DVR knows that reboots are deadly to recording that episode of Prison Break. My PC is never turned off and it has yet to reboot on it's own. You need to check your configuration settings. You can set the automatic updates to not install, not reboot, or whatever.

You're suggesting that users ought to configure their machines to do what they're told. That's just BS, they should do what they're told by default. I shouldn't have to change registry entries, group policy settings just so that my machine doesn't reboot by itself. You personally might be happy to make that sort of configuration, but the average user has no clue about how to regain control of their machine.

- Nag you with stupid baloon tip messages: Uh I've had my macbook pro for about a week now and I've been asked about 15 to 20 times for my stupid password just to install an application? That's different how exactly?

You aren't comparing like with like. Compare UAC to OS X's password request. There are no balloon tips in OS X.

- Prone to viruses or browser exploits: Seriously? If the shoe were on the other foot and Mac systems had market share,

If your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncle. Lets stick to the present day situation. The fact is the Mac doesn't have the market share that Windows has. The fact is that Macs aren't affected by viruses in the same way that Windows machines are.

- Not create a UI to disable/remove a laptop's IR sensor: Is this really a deal breaker?? Seriously? Haven't owned many laptops but I know that almost every business laptop I've been given at work didn't even have an IR port. So can we get some perspective?!

Every laptop that I've owned has had an IR receiver, even that ones that I've used at work. Granted, not everyone is affected by the issue that I described, but it's an issue that nobody has to deal with on a Mac.

 

[yatman]

Before I respond - thought some might get a kick out of the debate from the perspective of journalists reviewing 4 different OSes (April of this year - 2008 in case anyone comes back to this).
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9075000

It's not a matter of opinion, it either is or isn't. UI isn't art.

So maybe art isn't the right word but it is a matter of taste. Fancy icons and sound effects and layout don't completely define a UI. It appears, from this newbies perspective, that many things require at least 2 to 3 set of double-clicks to get accomplished. Opening the control panel in Vista requires start/control panel. In OSX it's the apple icon/system preferences (Both OSes require a single click here).

Adding a printer in Vista is start/printers (2 steps) OR start/control panel/printers (3 steps)
Adding a printer in OSX is apple/system preferences/print and fax (3 steps)

Getting to my documents in Vista (default installation) is: start/my documents.
Getting my my document in OSX (default installation) is: double click hard drive icon/and select the documents icon in the places menu.

And I could go on. So from a usability standpoint - I don't see that the average granny couldn't figure out either system with about 5 minutes of someone showing them how it worked.

making short movies, editing, tagging and organizing photos and music.

These are application specific functions and features. Just because OSX includes an application suite that has some of the basic functions and Vista may or may not have as comprehensive a suite doesn't make it bad or good. Most users end up buying higher end applications (of which the most common ones have versions for both OSes) anyways and never look back at the stuff that came with the OS.

The power button on a laptop should shutdown the machine by default. That's how it's always been, that's how it should be. This blog post explains fully why Vista's shutdown menu is a complete UI disaster: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/21.html

Well we can all find someone elses opinion to mirror our own and quote them. That said, the RED button in the start menu is a pretty good clue that it's going to do something bad (like turn off your computer). I don't see the issue of having the right arrow to allow even deeper control; like switch user or sleep mode. In OSX, just because they made the apple icon immediately have all those options right there doesn't make it any better. MOST users would get used to either approach pretty quickly.

shouldn't have to change registry entries, group policy settings just so that my machine doesn't reboot by itself. You personally might be happy to make that sort of configuration, but the average user has no clue about how to regain control of their machine

The fact that you mention making registy setting changes and group policy settings to make this simple adjustment from the control panel means you either don't know how to do it or you're just exaggerating what you perceive to be the solution to make a point. Simply tell the system to download and not install the updates. Isn't that the mac's default settings - download and do nothing?

You aren't comparing like with like. Compare UAC to OS X's password request. There are no balloon tips in OS X.

I'm not sure what you're defining as a balloon tip, but anytime I'm prompted to do something simple is an annoyance. Again, I don't disagree that UAC went overboard on the security and I'll admit that the default setting of that is lame. No argument here. But you can turn it down so that it at least equals what the Mac does.

If your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncle.

Ah the first sign of a losing proposition - the vulgarity and the colorful euphamisms.

This is an item that is heavily debated and we'll never know the real answer. So yes - to your point, Windows is subject to more attacks.

Every laptop that I've owned has had an IR receiver, even that ones that I've used at work. Granted, not everyone is affected by the issue that I described, but it's an issue that nobody has to deal with on a Mac.

Many consumer models do have IR ports but a lot don't. Same with the business class. Some lenovo's do, some don't and the same applies to the Dell business lines. Regardless. The ability to turn on or off the IR port doesn't amount to a can of beans in the grand scheme of things. The macbook doesn't even come with a remote so what difference does it make?

The control panel is much harder to use than system preferences.

I don't find that to be true at all. I find the system preferences menu to be more confusing. Granted I'm unfamiliar with it. But if it's so much more intuitive, I shouldn't need to be all that familiar with it. The only exception I can say that I noticed immediately is the location of the security settings. In Windows it's under the screen saver settings which seems wierd. But the other stuff seems about equal to me.

it's never a good idea to have all of your eggs in one basket. A corrupt registry means you have a machine that won't boot.

Agreed - but this is a developmental flaw and not one that will TYPICALLY translate into anything the average home users needs to sweat. Most applications from reputable software shops do a good job of cleaning up after themselves. Again, given the sheer volume of shareware, and other non-mainstream apps, available from whatever mom&pop development shop, it's partly Buyer Beware and partly Microsoft should enforce better cleanup. Ultimately, it needs to move away from the registry altogether or find some hybrid approach.

 

[stomer]

And I could go on. So from a usability standpoint - I don't see that the average granny couldn't figure out either system with about 5 minutes of someone showing them how it worked.

That's my point. Grannies shouldn't have to be figuring out stuff, it should be intuitive.

Simply tell the system to download and not install the updates.

And what's the result of that? IE security updates not being applied. Great.

I'm not sure what you're defining as a balloon tip,

Balloon tips are the helpful little balloons that appear above the icons in the traybar. They inform you of events such as connecting a USB device.

No argument here. But you can turn it down so that it at least equals what the Mac does.

Again, not intuitive.

The macbook doesn't even come with a remote so what difference does it make?

Mine did. I've got 3 Apple Remotes. I can pair each own with a particular device of my choosing so that I don't go controlling 3 devices at the same time.

Agreed - but this is a developmental flaw and not one that will TYPICALLY translate into anything the average home users needs to sweat.

Come on, it does. The user may not realise what the issue is but typically your machine will get slower and slower.

Most applications from reputable software shops do a good job of cleaning up after themselves.

I don't believe they do. Even Adobe have been guilty of creating spurious registry entries.

Microsoft should enforce better cleanup. Ultimately, it needs to move away from the registry altogether or find some hybrid approach.

That'll never happen. There are just way too many dependencies on the registry. Unless MS decide to develop a non-Windows OS.

 

[SFStateStudent]

Why do I hate windows (especially Vista)? Let me count the ways: I'll narrow it down to one = "Because I Can!"

 

[SactoGuy18]

By the way, watch for Windows 7 when the public beta starts next month. Think of it is Windows Vista SP1 with some additional bug fixes and a lot of interface improvements--Windows 7 is supposed to be quite a bit faster than Vista because of much improved optimization of the OS code.

 

[Melrose]

Why do threads always descend into this? This has gone from a respectful presentation of opinions by Mac Users in a Mac forum to one big argument.

Fact: Most users here use Macintosh, and (for better or worse depending on your opinion) won't be changed - so give up already.

 

[northy124]

I don't hate Windows I hate the fact that no PC I have ever used (Apart from Mac's) have been able to run it smoothly.

 

[yatman]

Originally Posted by yatman
The macbook doesn't even come with a remote so what difference does it make?

Mine did. I've got 3 Apple Remotes. I can pair each own with a particular device of my choosing so that I don't go controlling 3 devices at the same time.

Apparently Apple in their efforts to keep profits coming in, don't include much with the new macbooks. You get a power cable, and some discs, and a screen wipe. No remote.

Originally Posted by yatman
And I could go on. So from a usability standpoint - I don't see that the average granny couldn't figure out either system with about 5 minutes of someone showing them how it worked.

That's my point. Grannies shouldn't have to be figuring out stuff, it should be intuitive.

Well anyone not familiar with a computer at all (still a lot of the previous generation surprisingly) would need some level of a quick n' dirty tutorial to get going. That being said, even for myself, and I've used windows since 1.x had trouble figuring out the network settings for connecting to my home network (granted it's a windows network and mac n' windows genearally do NOT play nice in that respect). Even the system preferences in general took me a while to familiarize myself where things were. What's intuitive or not intuitive is directly a function of whether you're right or left brained so you can't generalize something by saying it's not intuitive.

Maybe that's why the general stereotype of mac users is that they are more of the artistic type of individuals

Originally Posted by yatman
Simply tell the system to download and not install the updates.

And what's the result of that? IE security updates not being applied. Great.

Well granted IE updates are a part of this but so are general system updates. Wasn't it just the other day that osx 10.5.6 was downloaded and hosed many mac users? And if you don't use IE, those IE updates don't mean much anyways.

Originally Posted by yatman
Agreed - but this is a developmental flaw and not one that will TYPICALLY translate into anything the average home users needs to sweat.

Come on, it does. The user may not realise what the issue is but typically your machine will get slower and slower.

If you google for "registry cleaner performance tests" you won't find a single actual test that validates that cleaning your registy relates to a noticeable increase in performance. Again, performance and reliability are different and I agree with your previous statement that they need to ultimately move away or find a hybrid solution. But from a performance standpoint, unless someone (NOT THE MANUFACTURERS OF SAID PRODUCTS) can actually produce actual, scientific, test results showing a significant increase in performance, I don't think it's as big an issue as people make it to be.

Originally Posted by yatman
Most applications from reputable software shops do a good job of cleaning up after themselves.

I don't believe they do. Even Adobe have been guilty of creating spurious registry entries.

Well there's always an exception. But this is two-fold again; Microsoft needs to enforce their software vendors from doing a complete registry wipe upon uninstalling, and the vendor needs to do a better job of doing that themselves. Not sure what the business reasons were that Microsoft had for not enforcing this.

Balloon tips are the helpful little balloons that appear above the icons in the traybar. They inform you of events such as connecting a USB device.

Ah - personally I'm used to seeing them and I appreciate knowing that the thing is connecting or at least recognized. On the Mac, it's not balloon tips but it creates an icon on my desktop for a usb drive and such. I personally like having a clean desktop and I don't want stuff just popping up there and making itself at home. So it's a preference thing. Again, not equating balloon tips to the UAC messages.

 

[yatman]

hardware

I don't hate Windows I hate the fact that no PC I have ever used (Apart from Mac's) have been able to run it smoothly.

Definitely a factor! Apple's own design and their control on the hardware definitely gives them a leg up on that. Any time the hardware manufacturer can control the OS too, it's a good thing. Microsoft never got into the PC business and therefore left the hardware vendors with an open season on their own designs. Dells, HP, and Lenovo are generally pretty stable machines and reliable - they also have good drivers. Not so sure about gateway, or some of these other guys.

I used to build PC's in my younger days in college and man - I can tell you all kinds of stories about how cheap that stuff was made and how cheap the quality of those things were.

 

[iGuardian]

So it's not your fault for not reading the manual?

There shouldn't be a manual to read. Computing should be something that's simple, quick, and easy. Not something you need to learn, or really spend time on.*

*Power/Advanced users do not apply.

 

[shady825]

Im a recent switcher and i just never liked using windows. It was like a job to maintain my computer.... God I love my Mac!!