Why does everyone hate Lion?

[jameslmoser]

Hah, I rarely see anyone come to the Lion forum asking for help. It's usually the usual complaining about changes that were made. Voicing THEIR opinion what they feel Apple has done wrong because they don't like the new system. More trolling here than asking for help.
It would certainly be a perfect world if most of the new threads were more like, "Help, I'm having trouble understanding the new Lion system, could someone give me some tips?" That would be a better question but it hardly happens here.

Doesn't matter if you think you see it or not, they are letting people know they are having problems, and hoping for some feedback to know they are not alone or that there is a solution. Even if they are here just to complaing, that doesn't change my original statement. They are having a problem with something (that many others have too) its not FUD, its a pattern.

Exactly!!! Thank you! I just love how rude people will put you down by name-calling for showing any amount of praise towards Lion and then complain for getting downrated for them criticizing Lion.

You're not allowed to say you're not having problems with the system because that would mean you're lying here. According to the FUD spreaders if they are having problems the system is broken.

The only one who called anyone a name was you. You called me "dude" and some how me asking you not to call me dude was considered an insult??? Its clear what kind of environment this forum has become.

 

[Mackilroy]

Now your just not making any sense. I never put any words in your mouth.

And If you create something new at the end of your workflow, that is very different from most. Creating something new is usually how you start a work flow.

I already created something new previously. Then I made a copy of it at the end. I always make copies of what I've created in order to back them up elsewhere.

Also, you did put words in my mouth: "Its like your saying as long as Apple just changes something about their new OS its better, doesn't matter what they did, its just different so no one should have any problems with it."

I never said different is always worse, why would anyone need help with or find a problem with a change that was better? There are a few things Lion did do better, like iChat with Yahoo Messenger support and a unified contact window. That was a change for the better. I haven't seen anyone complain about that.

Why? Just because a change is better doesn't mean it's readily understandable. That's when someone might ask for help.

Your theory that all these changes are just different and thats the only reason people are complaining is wrong. They have every right to voice their opinion or frustration and hope other people validate their concerns or on occasion have an actual workable solution for them. If there were really valid workable solutions to the changes in Lion, do you really think 6 months after the release people would still be complaining about it to this extent?

It's not the only reason people are complaining, but it's the largest one. I'm not going to validate a concern that I think is invalid – to think I would is ridiculous. And yes, people would still complain to this extent, because instead of looking for a positive solution, they're still stuck in old patterns. That's fair, but I will not look positively on that. People complained for months and years after Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard were released – to think Lion would be an exception is silly.

There is no point in arguing with you. You don't have any actual solutions, just work arounds. Your not offering any new arguements, just repeating yourself and insinuating that everyone who doesn't like Lion is just lazy and doesn't want to be bothered with learning something different.

It's hard to give an actual solution for a problem when the problem is 'Lion is different and even though I can still actually do work I'm going to whine instead.' You have no new arguments, either – every single one of them has been used since 10.4 and before by people who didn't like the upgrade.

As far as our "Options" (thats all most of us really want, but they were taken away from us by the way) I am still with Snow Leopard, but if I want to continue using my MobileMe account come June, I DON'T have that option. If I want to buy a new mac (and I do, I would love the new air with the back lit keyboard) I DON'T have the option of using Snow Leopard on it.

No, you want Lion to work exactly the same as Snow Leopard. And when Apple switched to Leopard, you didn't have the option of running it on a PPC Mac. Did you complain then too?

RE: to the post you created while I was typing this up: if people are still stuck on the exact same issues as when Lion was released, you hit the nail on the head – it's a pattern. A pattern of complaining instead of actually looking for solutions. I figure you know the difference between asking for help and complaining, but in case you've forgotten, here's a couple of examples:

Complaint: Lion doesn't work the way I think it should! It sucks!

Looking for a solution: Lion doesn't work the way I'm used to, is there a program or method that will help me get back to work?

All I see from most of the people who are negative towards Lion is the former, rarely the latter. And since I'm tired of reading the former, I'm going to sit back and watch you disagree with other people for a while.

 

[Gomff]

Hah, I rarely see anyone come to the Lion forum asking for help. It's usually the usual complaining about changes that were made. Voicing THEIR opinion what they feel Apple has done wrong because they don't like the new system. More trolling here than asking for help.

Yeah, those pesky people voicing their opinions instead of it being given to them like it should be. How dare they

Exactly!!! Thank you! I just love how rude people will put you down by name-calling for showing any amount of praise towards Lion and then complain for getting downrated for them criticizing Lion.

You should complain to the mods....Oh, wait.

 

[Joos24]

Doesn't matter if you think you see it or not, they are letting people know they are having problems, and hoping for some feedback to know they are not alone or that there is a solution. Even if they are here just to complaing, that doesn't change my original statement. They are having a problem with something (that many others have too) its not FUD, its a pattern.

Yeah, the part I highlighted I agree with you, they do come here hoping for feedback. The type of feedback that shows they are not alone on their opinion of how much they hate the system. "Oh, I hate Mission Control", "Oh, I hate Launchpad", "Oh I hate how Spaces has changed", "Oh I hate how Full Screen doesn't work on multiple monitors...... dadadada".

Those are the exact complaints everyday but none of them are accompanied by a help question so, FUD is exactly what's going on here.

The only one who called anyone a name was you. You called me "dude" and some how me asking you not to call me dude was considered an insult??? Its clear what kind of environment this forum has become.

Uh, I don't make up the rules here but I have read the forum rules and using the word "Dude" is the same as "Bro" or "Buddy" and neither one of them are against the forum rules.
Did you forget that rudely questioned my age? That's a personal attack and it's against forum rules.
So now it's my fault that your post was removed and mine wasn't?

 

[scottsjack]

One of the complaints occasionally mentioned is that Lion feels slow. It seems slow to me too. Lion on either my MBP or MP feels like it's slower to respond and spends more time beachballing than either Snow Leopard or Windows 7.

I have Photoshop CS 5 on both the Windows and the Lion partitions or drives. It's Windows' fast response that is drawing me back in their camp. Additionally Windows controls like quitting applications with the red X button, Save As, scrolling some single-window menus and choosing the foreground application with a click to the Task Bar are more direct and intuitive.

Lion made some needed user interface gains with Windows-like re sizable windows and sorting options in Finder but it's wasn't enough to outweigh Snow Leopard's loses.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, you CAN'T. In MC, if you want an app from another desktop, you have to move to that desktop... then put the app in your previous desktop, then change back. In spaces you could just drag the app into any desktop you wanted.

That's the same thing I said. So you said "No you can't", then proceeded to type out exactly the same thing I typed out.

Congratulations, I can now ignore your posts completely as its obvious you aren't even reading my responses.

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Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to like & own numeorus Apple products and yet still be critical of some aspects of their design.

Again something I often do. Do you hang out elsewhere than the Lion sub-forum ? I'm known as a "Samsung-Nokia-Android-Google-Motorola-Microsoft (*cough* *spew*) fanboi" in the News discussion section because I'm often defending the competition against the FUD and misinformation presented there about these.

However, again, "complaining" that Lion is different and that you're stuck in your ways by stating that "Lion is 100% pure crap" as a fact that applies to everyone does not help anyone.

I for one have none of your issues, nor the issues of james whatever his name is that doesn't even read my posts. I find that Mission Control is much improved over the old Spaces and is much more akin to a proper Virtual Desktop implementation that I've been used to in Linux window managers for the last 15 years (being a Linux desktop user prior to a OS X user).

 

[Joos24]

I have Photoshop CS 5 on both the Windows and the Lion partitions or drives. It's Windows' fast response that is drawing me back in their camp. Additionally Windows controls like quitting applications with the red X button, Save As, scrolling some single-window menus and choosing the foreground application with a click to the Task Bar are more direct and intuitive.

I have quite a fast experience in Lion on my 27" iMac. Fast app launching and very responsive system. Snow Leopard seemed slow to me and I didn't like the lack of the small things like full screen and cut n paste like in Lion. We use Lion in our business office and it runs very well. We have to use it for complex computations and nobody ever complains about it.

As far as you trying to do a selling job on Windows here, why wait? Go on back now rather than just saying you're being drawn back. I'm not speaking for others but for me I'm not buying it, I don't want it, Windows sucks to me, I have no more trust in it and I have zero interest going back to that crap on a PC. Microsoft has a long way to go before they would get me to even look that direction.

 

[Repo]

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party.

For $30, Lion was a worthwhile upgrade for me. Sure, it's not perfect, but I only have a few small quibbles with it, which I will proceed to point out, right now:

• Resizing windows from any side or corner. I really wish the feature could be turned off and/or reverted to the original bottom right corner only. I constantly find myself resizing Firefox whenever I'm just trying to use the scroll bar.
  
• Changed behaviour when closing the laptop lid. I have an external display hooked up to my uMBP. With SL, closing the lid meant the laptop would go to sleep. With Lion, closing the lid diverts the main display to the external monitor. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a preference to control this?
  
• The Auto-Save feature. It's cute. Please give me the option to turn it off, kthx.

Now for the things I do like:

The Safari only guest account, the ability to view animated .gif's through quicklook, the new mail and address book, mission control and new gestures, iCloud integration, AirDrop, etc.

As a side note: I don't like the "natural" scrolling, but thanks to Apple for giving me the option to turn it off (now if only they'd address the 3 issues at the top). I also don't really like the monochrome, fixed look of the icons in finder, because my custom icons will no longer appear, but I can get over it.

That's Lion. It runs great on my C2D '09 uMBP.

 

[jameslmoser]

That's the same thing I said. So you said "No you can't", then proceeded to type out exactly the same thing I typed out.

Congratulations, I can now ignore your posts completely as its obvious you aren't even reading my responses.

What we are describing is not the same. I don't have to go to another desktop to get an app out of it and move it into my current one in Spaces. I just move it. In mission control. If I want to get an app from another desktop, and put it in my current one, I have to:

1) enter MC
2) select other desktop with app.
3) grap app from the new current desktop and put on previous desktop
4) return to original desktop/exit MC

In spaces:

1) enter spaces
2) drag app to current space
3) leave spaces

Like so many things in Lion, it requires an extra step. It was quicker, simpler, faster before.

Please feel free to ignore all my posts. You can start with this one.

 

[scottsjack]

As far as you trying to do a selling job on Windows here, why wait? Go on back now rather than just saying you're being drawn back. I'm not speaking for others but for me I'm not buying it, I don't want it, Windows sucks to me, I have no more trust in it and I have zero interest going back to that crap on a PC. Microsoft has a long way to go before they would get me to even look that direction.

No selling job here. I don't really care what platform anyone uses since I'm not a fanboy for either. Sure both Mac and Windows OSs have their advantages but I really don't care much about the OS. It's the user applications that matter, as in "what can the computer do".

From the software POV I need both systems. PS works a little better on Windows. Modern Quicken is only available on Windows since Intuit seem incapable of writing Mac software. On the other hand iPhoto, iTunes, RipIt and A Better Finder Rename don't have Windows equivalents that are anywhere a great as on the Mac.

Finally I use both Office 2010 and 2011. They're pretty much the same. Excel and Word work better under Windows while the Mac version of Outlook is the better.

As Microsoft has yet to figure out it's all about user applications. The rest is just details.

 

[KnightWRX]

What we are describing is not the same. I don't have to go to another desktop to get an app out of it and move it into my current one in Spaces. I just move it. In mission control. If I want to get an app from another desktop, and put it in my current one, I have to:

1) enter MC
2) select other desktop with app.
3) grap app from the new current desktop and put on previous desktop
4) return to original desktop/exit MC

Again, you type out exactly the same thing I said. Failure to read my post. Twice.

Ignored sir. Hint : I was talking about Mission Control the whole time, responding to your claim that you can't move apps between desktops. Obviously, you know how since you keep typing out the same solution I proposed.

Have fun with all your "issues", I won't bother you anymore with my insights since obviously, you can't be bothered to read them in your haste to complain and rage.

 

[Joos24]

Again, you type out exactly the same thing I said. Failure to read my post. Twice.

Ignored sir. Hint : I was talking about Mission Control the whole time, responding to your claim that you can't move apps between desktops. Obviously, you know how since you keep typing out the same solution I proposed.

Have fun with all your "issues", I won't bother you anymore with my insights since obviously, you can't be bothered to read them in your haste to complain and rage.

Oh good, I thought it just my eyes playing tricks on me. I noticed the same thing too. He keeps writing the same thing about MC as you do yet he keeps disagreeing with you. . Oh the oddity in this forum. The ignore button works well and I don't blame you for using it.

 

[MacManiac76]

Oh good, I thought it just my eyes playing tricks on me. I noticed the same thing too. He keeps writing the same thing about MC as you do yet he keeps disagreeing with you. . Oh the oddity in this forum. The ignore button works well and I don't blame you for using it.

jameslmoser is not debating whether or not an app can be moved from one space to another in Mission Control, which we all know it can be done. He is stating that it cannot be done without leaving the currently active space, like you can do in Snow Leopard.

For there to be an equivalent in Lion you would need to be able to just drag an app from the little preview at the top of one of the inactive spaces and put it in the space you are currently using without any space switching necessary.

 

[Lanarae]

I really miss expose!

 

[Duckit]

I don't have any issue with Lion...but then again this is my first mac and it came with Lion so I really can't compare it to Snow Leopard that much. Although I can tell you that I really like Lion better than Windows. Just my opinion.

 

[Joos24]

jameslmoser is not debating whether or not an app can be moved from one space to another in Mission Control, which we all know it can be done. He is stating that it cannot be done without leaving the currently active space, like you can do in Snow Leopard.

For there to be an equivalent in Lion you would need to be able to just drag an app from the little preview at the top of one of the inactive spaces and put it in the space you are currently using without any space switching necessary.

While I agree that I am not necessarily crazy about having to call up the space in question that contains the app then having to drag and drop to another space, that feature that allowed just dragging apps between spaces like it was done in Snow Leopard was clunky. I had 3 very fast Macs and all of them had trouble dragging files. Sometimes dragging a file from space to space would cause the process to come to a complete halt leaving the file in question suspended in mid air and then it would eventually finish moving to the next space. This would happen quite often on all of my Snow Leopard Macs. All of my Macs have always been clean installs and never a migration of apps.
Me thinks this is why Apple changed the behavior in Lion. Actually I do hope that in some software update that they are able to fix this so we can drag files without calling up the space with the file first. If they don't then I'll live with it. I certainly won't be coming onto a forum spewing my undying hate for Lion until my fingers break off from typing so much FUD on my keyboard.

 

[Gomff]

No selling job here. I don't really care what platform anyone uses since I'm not a fanboy for either. Sure both Mac and Windows OSs have their advantages but I really don't care much about the OS. It's the user applications that matter, as in "what can the computer do".

From the software POV I need both systems. PS works a little better on Windows. Modern Quicken is only available on Windows since Intuit seem incapable of writing Mac software. On the other hand iPhoto, iTunes, RipIt and A Better Finder Rename don't have Windows equivalents that are anywhere a great as on the Mac.

Finally I use both Office 2010 and 2011. They're pretty much the same. Excel and Word work better under Windows while the Mac version of Outlook is the better.

As Microsoft has yet to figure out it's all about user applications. The rest is just details.

Indeed....Use the best tool for the job. It takes some courage not to tow the line and to post anything positive about Windows software or PC's on these forums, such is the fervour for the latest thing to come out of Cupertino....You'll get accused of all sorts and reported to the mods if you step out of line (probably in the hope of getting you banned / silenced).

The fact is that the Mac has been falling behind in the graphics department for quite some time....openGL in OS X is inferior to Windows and the GPU offerings are limited, old and expensive. For a brief, blissful period 3D graphics and animation on the Mac was on a par with the PC but alas it has fallen behind again.

 

[Joos24]

Indeed....Use the best tool for the job. It takes some courage not to tow the line and to post anything positive about Windows software or PC's on these forums, such is the fervour for the latest thing to come out of Cupertino....You'll get accused of all sorts and reported to the mods if you step out of line (probably in the hope of getting you banned / silenced).

The fact is that the Mac has been falling behind in the graphics department for quite some time....openGL in OS X is inferior to Windows and the GPU offerings are limited, old and expensive. For a brief, blissful period 3D graphics and animation on the Mac was on a par with the PC but alas it has fallen behind again.

If this is the way you feel then why even come here? If saying anything positive about Apple's products makes you ill then you should be involved in a forum that makes you happy. Apparently this one doesn't.

 

[Macman45]

My Two Cents Worth

I actually like Lion, okay it's not perfect and there are annoying things here and there, but I think it's an improvement over SL.

The thing is IMO, It requires more RAM than Apple admit. I think a minimum of 8gb makes it run smoothly. On my main machine ( iMac 27") I took it up to 16gb, but I do intensive video and music work.

My MBP has 8GB and my MBA 4, but the SSD makes up for the speed anyway. I don't really think 4g. Is enough.

 

[Joos24]

The fact is that the Mac has been falling behind in the graphics department for quite some time....openGL in OS X is inferior to Windows and the GPU offerings are limited, old and expensive. For a brief, blissful period 3D graphics and animation on the Mac was on a par with the PC but alas it has fallen behind again.

Oh, I see. That must be why so many PC users are dumping their chances to have a great GPU infused PC so they can buy a Mac which has an old, expensive and inferior GPU in it. Then these people install Windows to play games on those inferior old GPU's.

Or maybe the reason so many people buy Macs is because they actually like the machine and the OS built for it and they probably have other more important things to do with their computing time than playing Call of Duty while they are waiting for mommie to cook their dinner.

 

[Gomff]

Oh, I see. That must be why so many PC users are dumping their chances to have a great GPU infused PC so they can buy a Mac which has an old, expensive and inferior GPU in it. Then these people install Windows to play games on those inferior old GPU's.

Bzzt, wrong again, but thank you for playing.

Firstly, define "so many PC users"....Last time I looked, Macs had about 10% market share so we're hardly talking stampedes here. Factor in the professionals (heard of them?) going back to Windows for Video and Graphics work and you may find less people switching over than you think.

Or maybe the reason so many people buy Macs is because they actually like the machine and the OS built for it and they probably have other more important things to do with their computing time than playing Call of Duty while they are waiting for mommie to cook their dinner.

Are you suggesting that I'm some kid living at home that wants a decent GPU to play COD? Bzzzt! That's two for two....you're not doing well today. Try needing to use a PC because it's the only option for high end, mission critical 3D with tight deadlines and a Mac Pro with a 5870 GPU won't cut it because (a) the GPU is too sluggish and (b) the software & openGL in OS X isn't up to the job. This is a situation I'm in right now.

BTW.....What is Mommie cooking for dinner tonight? Best ask for a nice big glass of Kool Aid to wash it all down.

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If this is the way you feel then why even come here? If saying anything positive about Apple's products makes you ill then you should be involved in a forum that makes you happy. Apparently this one doesn't.

I'm beginning to feel like I'm being stalked....Quite flattering really.

 

[balamw]

MOD NOTE:

Thread has officially outlived its usefulness and turned into a series of personal attacks and bickering.

Not everyone hates Lion so the thread's premise is flawed from the outset.

Please continue discussion of any specific issues you are having with Lion, and please try to avoid generalizations and personal attacks and bickering.

Thanks!

B