iPod touch Why does iPod touch 5th gen only have A5 and not A6?

[IllIllIll]

I'll take out a very scientific study to see what percentage of people actually know/care the specs of their iPhone is What I'll do is ask every person I see with an iPhone while I work, if they know the specs of their iPhone, aside from camera and how much storage. I'll then make a nice graph of these results and send them to you.

Also, it was one statement.

Thanks!

Actually, that would be a flawed study as you mentioned the iPod Touch in your first post, not the iPhone. And it doesn't change the fact that your original statement was baseless.

Still, we'll all be looking forward to your next post in this thread with the results.

 

[archurban]

well, it's been for a while apple has done this way. it is all about strategy. iPhone, iPad are the most demanding, highly popular products apple has sold so far. so if they upgrade hard spec, these are the most priority to do. that's why they did it for iPhone 5 first this time. next year, ipod touch will get A6. but next upgrade for ipad will be better than iphone 5 in terms of processor. it is also the same method when you take a look at mac line. macbook pro.... 13inch model is inferior to 15 inch model because it is lack of dedicated GPU even it is much more expensive than similar level of PC laptops. if apple would upgrade all models for the same treat, they won't sell many of them. it's like that apple throws bait, and wait. how much consumers could want that. then they slowly take an action. but smart people won't get that bait. careful when you buy apple products.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Seriously this actually makes me angry. I have iphone 4s im still on my contract and cant upgrade to iphone 5 for another 6 months without paying extra fee on 100 some dollars on top of iphone. I was going to get ipod touch 5th gen and use it as sort of gaming machine and music player as well as keeping my old iphone 4 but it seems like they really screwed over people who wanted the ihpone 5 with no monthly payments which is what ipod touch always has been its like were getting iphone 4s not iphone 5 should be 4.5th generation since its not on iphone 5 quality.

Does any one know why they did this is there actual reason other than they would sell less iphones.

There are only three theories that make sense.

One: The iPod touch is always substantially thinner than the given contemporary iPhone; as the iPod touch gets thinner, it can't keep up with getting some of the specs and features until thinner versions can be developed. Stupid really; I don't think anyone cares about the iPod touch being any thinner than the 4th gen was, but clearly Apple disagrees.

Two: Apple is trying to position the iPhone to be obviously superior in spec to the contemporary iPod touch. This is a trend that started with the original release of the 4th gen touch and the iPhone 4 and has only gotten worse since then. Although, this is a pretty good upgrade all things considered.

Three: A little of column A and a little of column B. My guess is this that this is the most likely scenario. To be fair, the iPod touch is the flagship of the iPod line and the bastard stepchild of the iOS line; therefore it's going to be last in line for everything. To be fair, if you bought your 4th Generation iPod touch in September of 2010, it will end up lasting you much longer than a first generation iPad would if you bought it in April 2010, so go figure. I'm pleasantly surprised that the iPod touch got most of what it did (the only things that didn't surprise me were the A5 chip and the taller screen).

 

[Jsameds]

I can't believe people are angry about this. The iPod Touch received a HUGE upgrade in all areas and still people are whining!


Get over yourselves!

 

[watchthisspace]

Actually, that would be a flawed study as you mentioned the iPod Touch in your first post, not the iPhone. And it doesn't change the fact that your original statement was baseless.

Still, we'll all be looking forward to your next post in this thread with the results.

If you think that everyone can tell you the specs of the iPhone, then the iPod Touch and say "I don't want to buy the 5th generation iPod Touch as it only features 1gb of RAM and Apple's A5 SoC which is a dual core only running at 800mhz is vastly inferior to the iPhone 5 with the brand new, A6," I'd happily say "I was wrong" a study was done and that by baseless claim wrong.

I'd be delighted if people were that smart.

I'm not ignorant, I just have a very good idea that most people do not have the understanding of specifications to agree with the OP and be annoyed that the new 5th Gen iPod Touch does not feature the new A6 chip.

Your suggestion of cannibalization is of course very valid and will happen, I just do not believe that Apple would decide to use the A5 in order for people to buy the iPhone 5 instead. And in the case where the OP noticed, to me the amount of people who do have the technical understanding would obviously choose the iPhone 5.

A user mentioned to keep their profit margins higher, I'd 100% agree that's the case as well. I also do believe that the iPod Touch has the A5 because Apple's partners cannot produce enough A6 chips for Apple to use in both devices.

 

[Itouch g1]

The media already thinks the touch 5g is too good and could eat into Apple's profits:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505124_162-57511955/how-apple-could-cannibalize-iphone-5-sales/



Add to that how small the iPod line is to Apple's business, be glad for the nice bump they've given us.
http://www.splatf.com/2012/07/apple-jun12earnings-charts/

 

[Menneisyys2]

Seriously this actually makes me angry. I have iphone 4s im still on my contract and cant upgrade to iphone 5 for another 6 months without paying extra fee on 100 some dollars on top of iphone. I was going to get ipod touch 5th gen and use it as sort of gaming machine and music player as well as keeping my old iphone 4 but it seems like they really screwed over people who wanted the ihpone 5 with no monthly payments which is what ipod touch always has been its like were getting iphone 4s not iphone 5 should be 4.5th generation since its not on iphone 5 quality.

Does any one know why they did this is there actual reason other than they would sell less iphones.

Because Apple wants us to purchase the iPhone 5 and not the iPt5.

 

[IllIllIll]

If you think that everyone can tell you the specs of the iPhone, then the iPod Touch and say "I don't want to buy the 5th generation iPod Touch as it only features 1gb of RAM and Apple's A5 SoC which is a dual core only running at 800mhz is vastly inferior to the iPhone 5 with the brand new, A6," I'd happily say "I was wrong" a study was done and that by baseless claim wrong.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that "everyone can tell you the specs of the iPhone", and to imply that because I disagree with your theories means I believe in the exact opposite is a complete fallacy of reasoning. What you said in your original post:

I would think it's because Apple's partner's cannot produce enough A6 SoC's to go in the iPhone 5 and the 5th gen iPod touch.

It sure sounds like you're saying the reason Apple decided to go with an A5 instead of an A6 in the iPod Touch was simply because of a supply issue with A6 SoCs. Again, you have provided zero proof of such.

I'm not ignorant, I just have a very good idea that most people do not have the understanding of specifications to agree with the OP and be annoyed that the new 5th Gen iPod Touch does not feature the new A6 chip.

Still irrelevant to the discussion. In fact, you're probably right - most people do not have a truly good understanding of the technical specs to really care. Where you go wrong is in believing that Apple would not use this as a reason to put less powerful, lower priced components in the iPod Touch.

A good analogy is Porsche, which is another example of a company that blatant enforces product positioning. They actively maintain the 911's flagship status by giving it the best and most powerful engines, and make sure their less expensive Cayman and Boxster models always come in second best in terms of engine size and power despite having a better configuration (mid engine versus rear engine mounting). The only reason they do this is money: to prevent people from buying a less expensive 98x series Porsche over a 99x series simply based on tech specs and numbers alone. It has NOTHING to do with component supply.

Your suggestion of cannibalization is of course very valid and will happen, I just do not believe that Apple would decide to use the A5 in order for people to buy the iPhone 5 instead. And in the case where the OP noticed, to me the amount of people who do have the technical understanding would obviously choose the iPhone 5.

That's not what you said in your original post:

I doubt it has anything to do with cannibalization

A user mentioned to keep their profit margins higher, I'd 100% agree that's the case as well. I also do believe that the iPod Touch has the A5 because Apple's partners cannot produce enough A6 chips for Apple to use in both devices.

If you agree about profit margins, then in fact you are agreeing with the whole issue of product positioning and not wanting to cannibalize sales of the higher priced product. Get it now?

 

[Siq®]

This.

When it sells apple gets $300. (Minimum)
When the iPhone 5 sells apple gets $650. (Minimum)

The iPod touch is aimed for people that want a simple device that can listen to music/play games/take a quick picture and don't pay attention to specs.

Very wrong. Lots of people buy care a lot about the specs but buy the iPod Touch because they can't/don't want to pay for a $650 device + $2000 data/phone plan

 

[sracer]

Very wrong. Lots of people buy care a lot about the specs but buy the iPod Touch because they can't/don't want to pay for a $650 device + $2000 data/phone plan

If you believe that is your only option, then you need to do some more research. You can buy a new iPhone WITHOUT having to sign up for cell service. If you shop around, you can get one of comparable capacity to an iPod Touch for significantly less than $650.

I've done it, a few times. And I assist family and friends who want an "iPod Touch Pro". It's not difficult. It may require a little more effort, but that shouldn't deter someone who "cares a lot about the specs".

 

[Plutonius]

You can buy a new iPhone WITHOUT having to sign up for cell service. If you shop around, you can get one of comparable capacity to an iPod Touch for significantly less than $650.

I shopped around and couldn't find anything significantly less then $650 for an unlocked iPhone 5. In fact, Apple wants $549 for a new 16Gb unlocked 4S.

If you know where you can legally buy an unlocked 32Gb or 64Gb iPhone5 for under $650, please post where or we will just assume that you are making up numbers to support your arguments.

 

[sracer]

I shopped around and couldn't find anything significantly less then $650 for an unlocked iPhone 5. In fact, Apple wants $549 for a new 16Gb unlocked 4S.

If you know where you can legally buy an unlocked 32Gb or 64Gb iPhone5 for under $650, please post where or we will just assume that you are making up numbers to support your arguments.

Over the last 8 months I have purchased 11 32GB iPhone 4 devices (8 of which were brand new in the box, 3 of which were in mint condition less than 4 months old) The most that I paid was $390 (+shipping) the least that I paid was $240. Most are being used as an iPod Touch, at least one (one of the 2 that I own) is being used prepaid with Straight Talk. All of them purchased from reputable sellers on eBay. I have posted a list of hints to help others do the same. Some people have found it helpful.

But you are free to assume that I'm making up numbers. I feel no need to prove to you what I know to be true. I see that you threw in the "unlocked" qualifier... something that I never claimed nor is required. Are you a troll or clueless, which one?

 

[Redjericho]

I know the iPhone 5 has the A6 but couldn't the iPod touch 5G at least get the A5X?

The a5x does nothing except power the retina display on the iPad 3. What good would that do on a screen 1/8 the size?

 

[Plutonius]

Over the last 8 months I have purchased 11 32GB iPhone 4 devices (8 of which were brand new in the box, 3 of which were in mint condition less than 4 months old) The most that I paid was $390 (+shipping) the least that I paid was $240. Most are being used as an iPod Touch, at least one (one of the 2 that I own) is being used prepaid with Straight Talk. All of them purchased from reputable sellers on eBay. I have posted a list of hints to help others do the same. Some people have found it helpful.

But you are free to assume that I'm making up numbers. I feel no need to prove to you what I know to be true. I see that you threw in the "unlocked" qualifier... something that I never claimed nor is required. Are you a troll or clueless, which one?

This thread is discussing why the new iPod Touch has an A5 and not an A6 like the new iPhone 5. I didn't realize that you were posting off-topic and comparing an iPhone 4 to the new Touch. I will not argue your numbers but you might want to specify iPhone 4 in your post.

 

[superdudeo]

I can't believe people are angry about this. The iPod Touch received a HUGE upgrade in all areas and still people are whining!


Get over yourselves!

I don't think they would be whining so much if it also didn't get a huge upgrade in cost too. And before you say, it's now 32GB. Some people don't need that kind of space, especially with the advent of spotify etc.

 

[andross77]

I know the iPhone 5 has the A6 but couldn't the iPod touch 5G at least get the A5X?

I could be wrong but the main difference between the A5 and the A5X is the GPU not the CPU. The A5X was put into the ipad 3 because of the crazy high resolution, something the iPod Touch 5th gen doesn't have (it's not even HD...)

It would be pointless to put the quadcore behemoth GPU in the ipod touch. the Dual core is still HELLA fast (7x faster compared to the last ipod touch and still faster than most other mobile phones in regards to gaming).

 

[watchthisspace]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that "everyone can tell you the specs of the iPhone", and to imply that because I disagree with your theories means I believe in the exact opposite is a complete fallacy of reasoning. What you said in your original post:


It sure sounds like you're saying the reason Apple decided to go with an A5 instead of an A6 in the iPod Touch was simply because of a supply issue with A6 SoCs. Again, you have provided zero proof of such.

I dunno, it could be one part of why the shipping time for iPhone 5's is 3-4 weeks, not 1 week.

Still irrelevant to the discussion. In fact, you're probably right - most people do not have a truly good understanding of the technical specs to really care. Where you go wrong is in believing that Apple would not use this as a reason to put less powerful, lower priced components in the iPod Touch.
Where did I say that I don't believe Apple would not use it as a reason?

A good analogy is Porsche, which is another example of a company that blatant enforces product positioning. They actively maintain the 911's flagship status by giving it the best and most powerful engines, and make sure their less expensive Cayman and Boxster models always come in second best in terms of engine size and power despite having a better configuration (mid engine versus rear engine mounting). The only reason they do this is money: to prevent people from buying a less expensive 98x series Porsche over a 99x series simply based on tech specs and numbers alone. It has NOTHING to do with component supply.

A good example, but Apple's demand for their iPhone's would be far greater than the demand for Porshe 911's, Cayman or Boxster's. Apple said they sold or had 5 million preorders. How many 911's, Boxters and Cayman's were sold?

That's not what you said in your original post:




If you agree about profit margins, then in fact you are agreeing with the whole issue of product positioning and not wanting to cannibalize sales of the higher priced product. Get it now?
How about you provide proof that Apple is using the A5 for product positioning? Rather than just being out to disprove everything I have to say.

 

[IllIllIll]

I dunno, it could be one part of why the shipping time for iPhone 5's is 3-4 weeks, not 1 week.

It could, but it isn't. Shipping time for iPhone 5's is 3-4 weeks because of high demand and supply issues with the screen. However, Sharp just got on board with Apple to manufacture more screens so now they have 3 suppliers.

Quit throwing out "it could be" scenarios when it's clear you have absolutely zero knowledge about what you're talking about.

A good example, but Apple's demand for their iPhone's would be far greater than the demand for Porshe 911's, Cayman or Boxster's. Apple said they sold or had 5 million preorders. How many 911's, Boxters and Cayman's were sold?

The numbers are irrelevant. The point is, both Apple and Porsche have the primary goal to make profits for their stockholders. Both offer lower-tier models with fewer features/capabilities at different prices to give consumers a choice. However, they both must be careful to avoid losing sales of their premium product to a lower-tier product. Like I said, it's called "product positioning", which is basic business management. You obviously haven't been to business school.

How about you provide proof that Apple is using the A5 for product positioning? Rather than just being out to disprove everything I have to say.

I don't NEED to provide proof. What Apple is doing is standard business practice and they aren't alone in doing it. Your claims/beliefs come out of nowhere and aren't backed up by any facts whatsoever.

Seriously - is it so hard to just admit that you really don't know what you're talking about and you're just pulling speculation out of your ***? Not a single thing you've said in this thread has given any indication that you have a clue.

 

[watchthisspace]

It could, but it isn't. Shipping time for iPhone 5's is 3-4 weeks because of high demand and supply issues with the screen. However, Sharp just got on board with Apple to manufacture more screens so now they have 3 suppliers.

Quit throwing out "it could be" scenarios when it's clear you have absolutely zero knowledge about what you're talking about.

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/28/sharp-now-producing-adequate-volumes-of-iphone-5-display/ I apologize for me "could be"

The numbers are irrelevant. The point is, both Apple and Porsche have the primary goal to make profits for their stockholders. Both offer lower-tier models with fewer features/capabilities at different prices to give consumers a choice. However, they both must be careful to avoid losing sales of their premium product to a lower-tier product. Like I said, it's called "product positioning", which is basic business management. You obviously haven't been to business school.

And this is achieved by your reasoning that they're using the A5 for product positioning alone?

I don't NEED to provide proof. What Apple is doing is standard business practice and they aren't alone in doing it. Your claims/beliefs come out of nowhere and aren't backed up by any facts whatsoever.

Seriously - is it so hard to just admit that you really don't know what you're talking about and you're just pulling speculation out of your ***? Not a single thing you've said in this thread has given any indication that you have a clue.

So, to conclude this hearty discussion, Apple is using the a5 chip for product positioning instead of the a6?

 

[IllIllIll]

How come shipping times haven't dropped then?

Is this a serious question or are you being obtuse on purpose?

It's only been a little less than 2 weeks since the iPhone 5 was released. Demand is still outstripping supply. Give it time and shipping times will go down, and supply will increase. Basic economics.

And this is achieved by your reasoning that they're using the A5 for product positioning alone?

So, to conclude this hearty discussion, Apple is using the a5 chip for product positioning instead of the a6?

Yes. However, I never said Apple is using the A5 "for product positioning alone". There you go again, putting words in my mouth.

Using the A5 is not only cheaper for Apple which results in more profits, but using the A5 in the iPod Touch and the A6 in the iPhone differentiates the two products and steers consumers who want the latest, greatest, and more powerful device towards the iPhone - that is the entire POINT of product positioning. Really, you think Apple isn't capable of making an iPod Touch that has the same hardware, camera, and form factor as the iPhone 5 minus the phone features? There are plenty of people (me included) who would be willing to buy a device like an iPod touch with 90% of the functionality of an iPhone for less than 50% of the price of an iPhone. But Apple won't do that because they know it'll eat into iPhone sales and hurt their bottom line. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Get over yourself and admit for once that you may not know what you're talking about.

 

[watchthisspace]

Is this a serious question or are you being obtuse on purpose?

It's only been a little less than 2 weeks since the iPhone 5 was released. Demand is still outstripping supply. Give it time and shipping times will go down, and supply will increase. Basic economics.
Edited my earlier post with agrees with you

Yes. However, I never said Apple is using the A5 "for product positioning alone". There you go again, putting words in my mouth.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, it was a question.

Using the A5 is not only cheaper for Apple which results in more profits, but using the A5 in the iPod Touch and the A6 in the iPhone differentiates the two products and steers consumers who want the latest, greatest, and more powerful device towards the iPhone - that is the entire POINT of product positioning. Really, you think Apple isn't capable of making an iPod Touch that has the same hardware, camera, and form factor as the iPhone 5 minus the phone features? There are plenty of people (me included) who would be willing to buy a device like an iPod touch with 90% of the functionality of an iPhone for less than 50% of the price of an iPhone. But Apple won't do that because they know it'll eat into iPhone sales and hurt their bottom line. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

If you take a quick look at the Apple Website, they market the A6 in the iPhone 5, and no mention of the SoC in the iPod touch. I am well aware Apple is capable of making the iPod touch with the same specs and design of the iPhone 5 and choose not to because it isn't a smart business move. What I was talking about is just the A5 chip being in the new iPod Touch might not be just because of the product positioning, alone. But now you're talking about things other than the A5 chip which is not what I was originally talking about. And with that, yes of course I agree.

Get over yourself and admit for once that you may not know what you're talking about.

Thank you for this really informative discussion, IllIllIll. You have dispelled every opinion I have and let me being completely wrong with my thoughts. I now know why Apple have made their business decisions in regard to the a5 chip being used in the new iPod touch. Maybe we will engage in another hearty discussion again.

And to you sir/mam, I leave you with this: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m961tmUFcj1r3qnxf.gif

 

[IllIllIll]

If you take a quick look at the Apple Website, they market the A6 in the iPhone 5, and no mention of the SoC in the iPod touch. I am well aware Apple is capable of making the iPod touch with the same specs and design of the iPhone 5 and choose not to because it isn't a smart business move. What I was talking about is just the A5 chip being in the new iPod Touch might not be just because of the product positioning, alone. But now you're talking about things other than the A5 chip which is not what I was originally talking about. And with that, yes of course I agree.

I know what you were talking about - you postulated that the A5 is being used in the iPod touch because there wasn't enough supply of A6 SoCs. That's nothing but pure speculation on your part, and without any proof of such, simply isn't true. Period.

Maybe we will engage in another hearty discussion again.

I sure hope not. Having a discussion with someone with no knowledge of what he's talking about is more counterproductive than anything.

 

[acorntoy]

Very wrong. Lots of people buy care a lot about the specs but buy the iPod Touch because they can't/don't want to pay for a $650 device + $2000 data/phone plan

Lots. But not the MAJORITY.


When buying an iPhone people have 3 choices, therefore they examine the differences between them. When buying a iPod touch people don't really have a choice (until now) so for the past three years people don't really examine the specs, if they know they don't want to pay a data plan, then they don't have to look at specs at all, they just had to look at the GB amount.

They are two different devices, iPod touch owners have always whined that they want it to be exactly like the iPhone, it never has been, so why would anybody assume it would be now. In fact you could argue that last year when apple didn't update it, they showed that they care even less about it then before AND that the people who buy it are largely disinterested in the hardware that goes in it, considering that they announced it would stay the same at the SAME event they announce the 4s with upgraded internals. If you care about specs, then Apple has made a statement over the years that your gonna have to pay up to get the best ones.

What I would be interested to see is if it has the update A5 or the A5 that is in the 4S.

 

[zorinlynx]

There likely won't be a noticeable difference.

The iPhone uses up some CPU and memory handling all the cellular functions. Without this load the new iPod Touch may end up feeling just as fast as the iPhone 5.

(If you have an iPhone, put it into airplane mode, then turn on Wifi. It'll feel faster)

 

[dthree36]

It could also be because the A5 has been in circulation over a year. It has been produced in mass and there may be hundreds of thousands of these things laying around. Its easier to stick on older readily available part into a new device than it is to ramp up production on a new chip that is used in a device that is sold out or in short supply.