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iPhone XR Why Face ID flood illuminator working all the time?

mkriss

mkriss

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 23, 2017
12
17
Even shutting Face id off, attention aware off and require for attention off it still flashes infrared laser on you. Is it my device only? ( Iphone XR , tested on iOS 12.01 and iOS 12.1 ). I understand it would use flood illuminator when unlocking device, but laser works constantly when display is on.

I also tried turning off True Tone, Night Shift and setting auto lock to never - Sill flashes infrared light.


EDIT: It was filmed on DSLR camera.
 
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I see my iPhone X do it when I view it through my iPad's front camera. I don't see it when I look through the iPad's back camera. It blinks about every two seconds. It's certainly nothing that I'm concerned about.
 
Before buying Iphone with face id i read study that IR authentication is safe because it's short and not powerful enough, but seems it's different story, because your eyes are constantly flashed with flood illuminator for no reason ? It shouldn't track my eyes since awareness and require attention is off. So is it bug or maybe Apple is it using as proximity sensor?

Basically almost all studies i found said the same thing:
The protein of eye lens is very sensitive to IR radiation which is hazardous and may lead to cataract.
Click to expand...
...accompanied with changes in protein backbone structure. These changes increased for the groups exposed to IR for 10 minutes
Click to expand...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116568/

So my understanding from scientific research is that using low powered IR and time is very short ( 1 - 10 seconds ) for face id is safe but looking at infrared light for longer then 10 minutes may lead to cataracts and blindness. If this is not bug and apple is doing it intentionally it would be nice to turn this off. I think for many people health is a priority.
 
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I know if you are looking at your phone it will play alarms and other alerts at a lower volume so maybe this has something to do with it.
 
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hansenc said:
I know if you are looking at your phone it will play alarms and other alerts at a lower volume so maybe this has something to do with it.
Click to expand...
Omg thank you for this. I thought I was going crazy or my phone had issues when it was hard to hear sounds/notifications while sending/receiving texts. Lol.
 
mkriss said:
Before buying Iphone with face id i read study that IR authentication is safe because it's short and not powerful enough, but seems it's different story, because your eyes are constantly flashed with flood illuminator for no reason ? It shouldn't track my eyes since awareness and require attention is off. So is it bug or maybe Apple is it using as proximity sensor?

Basically almost all studies i found said the same thing:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116568/

So my understanding from scientific research is that using low powered IR and time is very short ( 1 - 10 seconds ) for face id is safe but looking at infrared light for longer then 10 minutes may lead to cataracts and blindness. If this is not bug and apple is doing it intentionally it would be nice to turn this off. I think for many people health is a priority.
Click to expand...



Relax.

The present work was aimed to explore the molecular structure backbone of rabbit’s crystalline lens after exposure to IR irradiance of 0.2 W/cm2​

0.2W/cm2 is quite a dose, I would speculate you get only a few nW/cm2 at best. So keep looking into your iPhone for a few billion years and you might get cataracts.

BTW, each time you go out into the sun, your eyes get irradiated by IR radiation. Most sunglasses don't block IR radiation, especially those with polycarbonate lenses.


(I wear IR laser protective goggles a lot and each freaking time I forget that my iPhone won't unlock :) )
 
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mkriss said:
Before buying Iphone with face id i read study that IR authentication is safe because it's short and not powerful enough, but seems it's different story, because your eyes are constantly flashed with flood illuminator for no reason ? It shouldn't track my eyes since awareness and require attention is off. So is it bug or maybe Apple is it using as proximity sensor?

Basically almost all studies i found said the same thing:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116568/

So my understanding from scientific research is that using low powered IR and time is very short ( 1 - 10 seconds ) for face id is safe but looking at infrared light for longer then 10 minutes may lead to cataracts and blindness. If this is not bug and apple is doing it intentionally it would be nice to turn this off. I think for many people health is a priority.
Click to expand...
There’s quite a few threads on this forum discussing the impact Faceid has to your eyes. One of the posters has a degree in physics and engineering plus his work deals with laser safety and he said there is no danger no matter how long the ir exposure from Faceid. It’s just too weak to damage your eyes. I believe in facts and science not hyperbole from the internet.. If you think it’s bad for you, get rid of the phone and get something that suits you. Your not going to get Apple to redesign Faceid for the few people who don’t trust the technology:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/faceid-and-eye-safety.2150422/
 
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BugeyeSTI said:
There’s quite a few threads on this forum discussing the impact Faceid has to your eyes. One of the posters has a degree in physics and engineering plus his work deals with laser safety and he said there is no danger no matter how long the ir exposure from Faceid. It’s just too weak to damage your eyes. I believe in facts and science not hyperbole from the internet.. If you think it’s bad for you, get rid of the phone and get something that suits you. Your not going to get Apple to redesign Faceid for the few people who don’t trust the technology:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/faceid-and-eye-safety.2150422/
Click to expand...

You did misunderstand. I am not complaining about safety of face id when unlocking device, but why IR flood illuminator is working constantly in home screen, apps etc. Without known purpose. You can clearly see it in video. Obviously it drains more battery as well.

537635 said:
Relax.

The present work was aimed to explore the molecular structure backbone of rabbit’s crystalline lens after exposure to IR irradiance of 0.2 W/cm2​

0.2W/cm2 is quite a dose, I would speculate you get only a few nW/cm2 at best. So keep looking into your iPhone for a few billion years and you might get cataracts.

BTW, each time you go out into the sun, your eyes get irradiated by IR radiation. Most sunglasses don't block IR radiation, especially those with polycarbonate lenses.


(I wear IR laser protective goggles a lot and each freaking time I forget that my iPhone won't unlock :) )
Click to expand...

it's a speculation how powerful laser is, because Apple didn't say its in nW/cm2 range. And also i don't look directly at sun when i am outside. I get that is its unlikely that i will get cataracts soon but it would be way better if it only used infrared floor illuminator when unlocking phone not constantly when you scroll instagram..
 
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mkriss said:
You did misunderstand. I am not complaining about safety of face id when unlocking device, but why IR flood illuminator is working constantly in home screen, apps etc. Without known purpose. You can clearly see it in video. Obviously it drains more battery as well.



it's a speculation how powerful laser is, because Apple didn't say its in nW/cm2 range. And also i don't look directly at sun when i am outside. I get that is its unlikely that i will get cataracts soon but it would be way batter if it only used infrared floor illuminator when unlocking phone not constantly when you scroll instagram..
Click to expand...
Sorry I misunderstood your post. I’ve never noticed it on my X but, I’m sure it does it also as I have all features for Faceid enabled.
 
It's an educated guess. 0.2W/cm2 would require a crazy amount of energy. I work with lasers, which max out at 1.2W/cm2 at a similar distance than iPhone usually is when scanning. It draws around 4-5kW of power. Plus iPhone has a fractional matrix, which even further diminishes the energy density.

Again, relax. IR reflects from many objects so you don't need to look into the sun directly.

Plus laser IR light isn't that big of a problem for the lens, retina is at far greater risk here. Diffuse IR (like the one used in your link and widely used in IR saunas etc.) is a problem for cataracts.
 
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Tried out and the red light from was visible on iphone 6s in slowmo camera app as well, but much more dimmer than DSLR. Does anyone with x, xs or xr sees flood illuminator working constantly not just when unlocking?
 
mkriss said:
Tried out and the red light from was visible on iphone 6s in slowmo camera app as well, but much more dimmer than DSLR. Does anyone with x, xs or xr sees flood illuminator working constantly not just when unlocking?
Click to expand...

Just wondering why it’s such a big deal. Is it effecting the way the phone is functioning?
 
There are two LEDs there next to each other. One is the proximity sensor, and the other is the flood illuminator.

What you see is probably the proximity sensor.

Use an infrared/full spectrum camera to see which one fires.
[doublepost=1541034032][/doublepost]
537635 said:
It's an educated guess. 0.2W/cm2 would require a crazy amount of energy. I work with lasers, which max out at 1.2W/cm2 at a similar distance than iPhone usually is when scanning. It draws around 4-5kW of power. Plus iPhone has a fractional matrix, which even further diminishes the energy density.

Again, relax. IR reflects from many objects so you don't need to look into the sun directly.

Plus laser IR light isn't that big of a problem for the lens, retina is at far greater risk here. Diffuse IR (like the one used in your link and widely used in IR saunas etc.) is a problem for cataracts.
Click to expand...

Do you have a device at work that can measure the power output of the flood illuminator?

Lots of people would thank you greatly if you did!
 
BugeyeSTI said:
There’s quite a few threads on this forum discussing the impact Faceid has to your eyes. One of the posters has a degree in physics and engineering plus his work deals with laser safety and he said there is no danger no matter how long the ir exposure from Faceid. It’s just too weak to damage your eyes. I believe in facts and science not hyperbole from the internet.. If you think it’s bad for you, get rid of the phone and get something that suits you. Your not going to get Apple to redesign Faceid for the few people who don’t trust the technology:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/faceid-and-eye-safety.2150422/
Click to expand...

I bet you there were experts, with various degrees, that would assure you that VW cars emmissions are well within limits.

There are cases where radiation treatment machines would deliver deadly doses of radiation. Again, if you asked expert opinion they would tell you they were perfectly safe.

I am not saying that something similar is happening here. Just that you cannot use it as an argument to assert truth.
 
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stafil said:
I bet you there were experts, with various degrees, that would assure you that VW cars emmissions are well within limits.

There are cases where radiation treatment machines would deliver deadly doses of radiation. Again, if you asked expert opinion they would tell you they were perfectly safe.

I am not saying that something similar is happening here. Just that you cannot use it as an argument to assert truth.
Click to expand...
Your examples are tragic.

The experts would tell you VW emissions were within limits because the cars cheated to get within limits when they detected testing conditions.

The "radiation treatment machines" are designed to blast you with radiation. The iPhone is not.

He can absolutely use it as an argument to assert truth - that is the entire point of science and research. It sure as hell trumps your tinfoil hat approach to being paranoid about everything. I bet you're the kind of guy that makes visitors leave their phones outside the house because cell wavez totes go thru ur head maaaan
 
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Suckfest 9001 said:
Your examples are tragic.

The experts would tell you VW emissions were within limits because the cars cheated to get within limits when they detected testing conditions.

The "radiation treatment machines" are designed to blast you with radiation. The iPhone is not.

He can absolutely use it as an argument to assert truth - that is the entire point of science and research. It sure as hell trumps your tinfoil hat approach to being paranoid about everything. I bet you're the kind of guy that makes visitors leave their phones outside the house because cell wavez totes go thru ur head maaaan
Click to expand...

You are failing to follow simple logic predicates.

Somebody mentioned that given (A) is true, (B) must be true

I gave examples where (A) was true, but (B) wasn’t.

Hence you cannot assert that (B) is true just because (A) is true.

Logic 101.

Then you throw big words “science” and “research” with no context hoping to establish what?

Finally you resort to some kind of mocking? Again not sure what you think you are doing other than proving you don’t want people to take you seriously.
 
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stafil said:
I bet you there were experts, with various degrees, that would assure you that VW cars emmissions are well within limits.

There are cases where radiation treatment machines would deliver deadly doses of radiation. Again, if you asked expert opinion they would tell you they were perfectly safe.

I am not saying that something similar is happening here. Just that you cannot use it as an argument to assert truth.
Click to expand...
I read your concerns in numerous threads. If you don’t trust the technology, get a different device or just disable Faceid and use the passcode..
 
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BugeyeSTI said:
I read your concerns in numerous threads. If you don’t trust the technology, get a different device or just disable Faceid and use the passcode..
Click to expand...

Please read my reply again if you want. I raised no concern about the FaceID. My concern was about his flawed logic.

BTW your advice is same for you. If you don’t like what I have to say you can ignore me. There is a button for that.
 
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