Why is everybody so obsessed with RAM?

[steve217]

This thread has been 16 pages of confirmation bias.

Almost all the people that have 8GB swear it's fine. The ones that don't have 8GB, insist it's useless.

For the record, I have 2 8GBer M1's and have no regrets.

I had a 2018 i7 Mini that I put 32 GB RAM in. I would look at the swap and see a thin green memory pressure line and think "Aww,,, all is well".

Then a revelation came to me that said "YOU WASTED YOUR MONEY. UNUSED MEMORY IS WASTED MEMORY."

I sold the i7 and got an M1 MBA and haven't had any complaints.

I'm beginning to believe that if the memory pressure is not consistently yellow, you over bought.

"But, what about swapping and wearing out the SSD*". So what? "Get off your lazy electrons!", I say. I'm not saving this computer for the museum. I'm USING IT!

*Wearing out the SSD through swap has been discussed and dismissed countless times. But no empirical evidence will ever kill that meme.

 

[jav6454]

I didn't say there were no use cases for having more RAM. Of course there are exceptions (I named numerous exceptions in my original post). But for the everyday user, how often are people running into those exceptions?

I'm a software developer for a living and I don't run into those exceptions often. If I don't run into those exceptions often, the everyday user doing everyday tasks certainly won't. 8GB might not necessarily be "futureproof" the way 16GB is, but 8GB is not insufficient for everyday users. 8GB Macs perform great for millions of people around the world.

Then in your case, you'll happy with 8GB. However, some of us have run into that wall where 8GB isn't enough.

 

[TightLines]

Isn’t the bottom line in all of this, “if you don’t have it installed at point and time of purchase, you’re not going to be able to get it afterwards” ?

Get it or regret it is the most succinct way of putting it, I think.

 

[jav6454]

Isn’t the bottom line in all of this, “if you don’t have it installed at point and time of purchase, you’re not going to be able to get it afterwards” ?

Get it or regret it is the most succinct way of putting it, I think.

That is also another hinderance of buying a Mac and why some users choose to get higher memory capacities. Now, you can't upgrade memory capacity at a later date. You are stuck.

 

[Basic75]

You misunderstand how macOS and applications use memory. If your Mac has a lot of memory, the OS and applications will use more memory!

Here macOS is doing a splendid job using 63 of 64Gb of memory.

Having free physical memory should be seen as an abomination.

No, I'm not misunderstanding anything. My 64GB Mac running a couple of office apps is showing 20GB used by apps, which is the number I quoted, and 40GB cached where macOS is filling up unused memory to minimize disk access. The 20GB are why I'm not recommending anybody to get an 8GB machine anymore.

 

[jav6454]

No, I'm not misunderstanding anything. My 64GB Mac running a couple of office apps is showing 20GB used by apps, which is the number I quoted, and 40GB cached where macOS is filling up unused memory to minimize disk access. The 20GB are why I'm not recommending anybody to get an 8GB machine anymore.

That assessment makes sense.

 

[drecc]

No, I'm not misunderstanding anything. My 64GB Mac running a couple of office apps is showing 20GB used by apps, which is the number I quoted, and 40GB cached where macOS is filling up unused memory to minimize disk access. The 20GB are why I'm not recommending anybody to get an 8GB machine anymore.

How many GB does it show as "used by apps" (by which I think you mean "App memory" in Activity Monitor) when you've closed all apps? Mine shows 6.43GB after a reboot prior to running anything.

 

[Killbynumbers]

A lot of people don't realize this. I had a Mac mini with 32 GB of RAM and it would use over 20 GB routinely doing normal stuff. If I took that as a recommendation I would have thought that I needed at least 32 GB of RAM.


I had a car with a V-8 engine and that thing would always overheat when it was over 95 Fahrenheit outside. The car I have now has a 4 cylinder engine and it runs perfectly fine even when it's 100 outside. I would recommend if you live in a hot climate to get a car with a smaller engine.

The point is you can't equate one issue you're having with that one specification. There's so many other issues that could have caused this

I had a 2012 MBP that also had the same problem. It could not handle all the tabs I would keep open in Safari until I upgraded the ram to 16GB. Once I did that, it was fine.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Why do I constantly see people whining about the RAM? If you're not happy with it sell your 8GB MBA and buy a 16GB one. Why blame Apple for this? I even see PCs with 4GB of RAM for sale and some of them are around $700.

It depends entirely on needs. The requirements for someone who primarily browses the web, emails and works with office documents is different to that of a 3D artist.

Apple - or any PC manufacturer for that matter - can't cater to every customer segment from a single SKU, hence why build-to-orders exist. But what they can do is provide a value for the retail price. Generally speaking the MBPs begin at 16gb RAM because that is decent allowance for a wide range of applications and workflows, which most likely make up the majority of uses. Likewise, 8gb on their consumer devices woulds generally be enough for less demanding ones.

The reasons this topic has become more hotly debated since Apple Silicon is because a) RAM can't be upgraded following purchase and b) the mythical "8gb is the equivalent of 16gb!!".

 

[russell_314]

I had a 2012 MBP that also had the same problem. It could not handle all the tabs I would keep open in Safari until I upgraded the ram to 16GB. Once I did that, it was fine.

It could be that it's a decade old? How many tabs? I'm not saying more RAM can't help with some cases because it's obvious that some people need more than even 64 GB. I will advise anyone that if you like to keep dozens of tabs open while also having other applications running then more RAM is helpful. My issue is some people say 16 GB is the bare minimum for anyone and that's just simply not true.

The thing is people on forums are usually either noobs asking for advice or techie people. The techie people always need and want more and don't often understand the needs of the average soccer mom using her MacBook Air to browse Facebook, make flyers for her kids bake sale and pay bills online. If she was buying a laptop in Windows land today it would likely have a Celeron processor with only 4 GB of RAM.

 

[NO1EYENO]

I Have 32 but 16 is all i use. OverKill as im not doing complex operations. I had 8gb but upgraded to 16 and everything was twice as fast. Never buy 8GB unless you can upgrade it to 16GB.

 

[MrGunny94]

There's a big issue with WindowServer and if you use external displays and Sidecar the memory leak gets real, there's some days where it's consuming 3GB, the only way to fix it is via reboot.

I'm using a 14" with 16GB of RAM but honestly I should have gone for 32GB, I have temporarily moved my Linux VMs to one of our cloud VMs.

Some apps like What's App are also yet to be Universal so it can consume a lot. I have to use the native app, because I make a lot of What's App calls via my Mac.

Obviously the debate between 8GB vs 16GB vs 32GB vs 64GB will depend on the type of workloads you use in my use case I have two Linux VMs one Ubuntu and another Red Hat so yeah obviously I should have gone for 32GB for my use case.

I don't mind using swap, but coming over from a 8GB MacBook Air where I did 10-12GB of swap every day it's crazy and sometimes I would have to wait for some refreshes sometimes.

This is how it looks for me when not using VMs, I only hit the yellow flag with a single VM or red with two and starts swapping back and forth.

 

[southerndoc]

I think the more Intel-based apps you use under Rosetta, the more memory you use. AS-native apps seem to be better utilizers of memory.

 

[Saturn007]

While I liked your comment, especially as confirmation bias is a real thing, you've shortchanged many posters.

“This thread has been 16 pages of confirmation bias.

Almost all the people that have 8GB swear it's fine. The ones that don't have 8GB, insist it's useless.”

There are many folks who had or have 8 GB who discovered it was too little! So, that was an empirical, validated experience, not confirmation bias!

I do think there is more truth to the insight about a novices vs. techies divide on MR, but even that oversimplifies. There are simply far too many reports from satisfied users, who are professionals, veteran Mac users, or do sophisticated work who have reported that 8GB serves them well — and much better than Intel 8GB did, and comparable to 16 GB. So, dismissing that 8 vs. 16 as a myth is wrong-headed, too.

FUD certainly produces a lot of upgrades! In both SSD capacity and RAM.

 

[Killbynumbers]

It could be that it's a decade old? How many tabs? I'm not saying more RAM can't help with some cases because it's obvious that some people need more than even 64 GB. I will advise anyone that if you like to keep dozens of tabs open while also having other applications running then more RAM is helpful. My issue is some people say 16 GB is the bare minimum for anyone and that's just simply not true.

The thing is people on forums are usually either noobs asking for advice or techie people. The techie people always need and want more and don't often understand the needs of the average soccer mom using her MacBook Air to browse Facebook, make flyers for her kids bake sale and pay bills online. If she was buying a laptop in Windows land today it would likely have a Celeron processor with only 4 GB of RAM.

Now it's a decade old. Back when I upgraded the RAM, it was new.

 

[edubfromktown]

The obsessions cover quite a wide swath these days:

Announcements
Hardware releases
Delivery dates
OS update availability
RAM "usage"/allocations
Battery runtime and health too
AppleCare (fix my minor blemish, pet ravaged, liquid dunked/splashed or just outright abused device)

 

[hans1972]

No, I'm not misunderstanding anything. My 64GB Mac running a couple of office apps is showing 20GB used by apps, which is the number I quoted, and 40GB cached where macOS is filling up unused memory to minimize disk access. The 20GB are why I'm not recommending anybody to get an 8GB machine anymore.

I'm arguing if you had less memory, those same applications would use less than 20Gb of memory.

I have both a 16Gb MacBook Air and 8Gb iMac. There isn't a problem starting all the Office applications on both machines. What I see though, is the memory utilisation of the same applications are different.

 

[hans1972]

No, I'm not misunderstanding anything. My 64GB Mac running a couple of office apps is showing 20GB used by apps, which is the number I quoted, and 40GB cached where macOS is filling up unused memory to minimize disk access. The 20GB are why I'm not recommending anybody to get an 8GB machine anymore.

I did just an experiment in which I restarted both my Macs and started Outlook, Teams, PowerPoint, Excel and Word on both.

The machine with 16Gb used 7.22Gb of memory of which 5.15Gb was application memory.
The machine with 8Gb used 5.40Gb of memory of which 1.56Gb was application memory.

So in this example the applications used 3,59Gb less memory.

 

[drdudj]

and here I felt bad about 3 months after I bought my computer with 20mb of ram and the next model came out with 40mb. Who would EVER use that much ram?? ahhh, the "good old" days.

 

[Basic75]

I did just an experiment in which I restarted both my Macs and started Outlook, Teams, PowerPoint, Excel and Word on both.

The machine with 16Gb used 7.22Gb of memory of which 5.15Gb was application memory.
The machine with 8Gb used 5.40Gb of memory of which 1.56Gb was application memory.

So in this example the applications used 3,59Gb less memory.

You forgot to mention the 2.4GB of compressed memory and 0.5GB of swap on the 8GB machine. So yes, 8GB is currently enough for such a light load, though my office load is a bit heavier, however one can clearly see the 8GB machine already feeling the pressure.

 

[Basic75]

and here I felt bad about 3 months after I bought my computer with 20mb of ram and the next model came out with 40mb. Who would EVER use that much ram?? ahhh, the "good old" days.

Back in those days you could upgrade your RAM at any time... I wouldn't recommend at least 16GB to everybody if that were still the case!

 

[Yebubbleman]

This thread has been 16 pages of confirmation bias.

Almost all the people that have 8GB swear it's fine. The ones that don't have 8GB, insist it's useless.

For the record, I have 2 8GBer M1's and have no regrets.

I had a 2018 i7 Mini that I put 32 GB RAM in. I would look at the swap and see a thin green memory pressure line and think "Aww,,, all is well".

Then a revelation came to me that said "YOU WASTED YOUR MONEY. UNUSED MEMORY IS WASTED MEMORY."

I sold the i7 and got an M1 MBA and haven't had any complaints.

I'm beginning to believe that if the memory pressure is not consistently yellow, you over bought.

"But, what about swapping and wearing out the SSD*". So what? "Get off your lazy electrons!", I say. I'm not saving this computer for the museum. I'm USING IT!

*Wearing out the SSD through swap has been discussed and dismissed countless times. But no empirical evidence will ever kill that meme.

I have multiple base model M1 configs in the form of base model MacBook Airs and 24" iMacs. For the things I use those for, 8GB is fine. However, for the things that I ought to be otherwise doing on the one M1 I own that has 16GB of RAM, 8GB eventually chokes and 16GB does not.

The notion that only people who have more than 16GB of RAM are commenting that 8GB isn't enough is asinine. Similarly, the notion that unused RAM is wasted RAM is also asinine.

Needs change; Apple also releases whole new macOS versions EVERY YEAR. Giving Apple ample opportunity to needlessly bloat the OS.

Also...just in case you missed it...YOU CAN'T UPGRADE YOUR RAM AFTER THE FACT ANYMORE!

No buying 8GB, thinking you'll be able to pay for an upgrade to 16GB later on should you so desire! You have to toss out the whole computer and buy a whole new one! At $1000 a pop, that's no small potatoes.

While I liked your comment, especially as confirmation bias is a real thing, you've shortchanged many posters.



There are many folks who had or have 8 GB who discovered it was too little! So, that was an empirical, validated experience, not confirmation bias!

I do think there is more truth to the insight about a novices vs. techies divide on MR, but even that oversimplifies. There are simply far too many reports from satisfied users, who are professionals, veteran Mac users, or do sophisticated work who have reported that 8GB serves them well — and much better than Intel 8GB did, and comparable to 16 GB. So, dismissing that 8 vs. 16 as a myth is wrong-headed, too.

FUD certainly produces a lot of upgrades! In both SSD capacity and RAM.

FUD, especially when it comes to buying Apple products in the Tim Cook era, has a basis in reality. Macs are expensive and it's usually a safer call to buy extra rather than buy lean. Most of the people recommending more RAM have likely been burned by not doing so on an un-upgradable Mac before.

 

[zorinlynx]

Swapping isn't as big a deal as it used to be. For example I just ran Blackmagic speed test on my MBP and it gets over 5GB/sec both reading and writing. At those speeds swapping will only slightly slow things down in most cases.

It's not like the old days when you were swapping to a mechanical hard drive and it would take a full several seconds for that swapped out application you haven't touched in a couple hours to come back to life. I got 16GB of RAM because I wasn't paying for it (work supplied machine) but if I were and I saved money going to 8GB I likely wouldn't notice the difference.

 

[Lukkee24]

I was recently looking at a Dell that is over $2,000 and it has 8GB of RAM. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/sho...d/precision-17-7760-laptop/xctop776017us_vpps

If we want to talk about the entire industry, we can have a conversation. But if you want to just target Apple here its a different story.

But it also has 6gb of vram, for a total of 14gb compared to Apple’s 8gb unified memory.

You can get a new Dell laptop with 8gb ram for £390 right now.. Apple charges £200 just to increase the unified memory by 8gb.

 

[m1maverick]

This thread has been 16 pages of confirmation bias.

Almost all the people that have 8GB swear it's fine. The ones that don't have 8GB, insist it's useless.

For the record, I have 2 8GBer M1's and have no regrets.

I had a 2018 i7 Mini that I put 32 GB RAM in. I would look at the swap and see a thin green memory pressure line and think "Aww,,, all is well".

Then a revelation came to me that said "YOU WASTED YOUR MONEY. UNUSED MEMORY IS WASTED MEMORY."

I sold the i7 and got an M1 MBA and haven't had any complaints.

I'm beginning to believe that if the memory pressure is not consistently yellow, you over bought.

"But, what about swapping and wearing out the SSD*". So what? "Get off your lazy electrons!", I say. I'm not saving this computer for the museum. I'm USING IT!

*Wearing out the SSD through swap has been discussed and dismissed countless times. But no empirical evidence will ever kill that meme.

Unfortunately that's something you don't know until you've actually made the purchase. This is the problem with memory which cannot be upgraded: It forces people to guess at their requirements. Guess too high and you wasted money, guess too low and you're stuck with an inappropriately spec'd system.