Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Look, I have an iMac, Mac Mini, iPad. However, I also run a Windows 7 PC and quite frankly I do find the old old wives tales about Windows and why I moved to Mac's more than a little tedious.

So for a start -
Mac is more advanced in technology - NO
Mac is more stable and reliable. - NO
Mac is of higher productivity. - NO
Mac is more enjoyable to use - NO certainly not since W7

Another old wives tale - maintenance defrag etc. W7 auto defrags in background updates are auto.
BSOD - virtually never seen one - right from Windows 3.1 I do question many users computer skills if they encountered many of these.
Viruses - never had one and always use the Free AV's

I bought my Mac's simply because I wanted one. However, I don't feel the need to justify my purchases by constantly slagging off a competitors more than competent products. More honesty please folks.

I have to agree with you here Windows 7 is a fantastic operating system gotta be there best one yet and as for security windows has been ahead of macs for years, just nobody cared enough to find and exploit them... Well Dr Charlie Miller did.

Recent Engadget interview with Dr Charlie Miller.

As far as where the security was, back when you first started, how much more open and vulnerable would you describe OS X as being, as opposed to the Windows operating systems at that time?

They were quite a bit. If you look at something like Vista, or Server 2003, those basically have the main anti-exploitation technologies and for the equivalent on OS X, you'd have to wait for Lion, just a few months ago. As an example, when I won the very first one in 2008, there was no DEP (Data Execution Prevention), so you could just write to memory and execute, exploit and jump right to it -- very trivial to exploit. The actual exploit I used in 2009 would not have worked. I would have not have had to do anything fancy at all to write a very, very unstable exploit, but the fact that I could just write to memory and execute it allowed me to do it, and neither of these things were possible on the Windows side. So, the good news is that things have changed. If you look at Lion, Lion is as hard to write an exploit for as it is for Windows 7, so they're very caught up. Back then, they were very easy pickings.

Again like you I bought a mac because I wanted one and don't regret my purchase the iMacs are fantastic systems and OSX is a beauty.
 
I am above average PC user . I know Macs look cool but I see absolutely no point spending more than twice money for bit dated hardware .

If you are going to say it is safe from viruses I might say I don't get viruses on windows either (using free antiviruses ) and I use Ubuntu Linux as well which is quite similar to Mac OS X in design and feel

I am not against Apple or Mac just curious why so many people have these expensive machines
Thank you

I am a Windows tech and have been for a long time. You cannot say that anti-virus and anti-malware programs will keep you completely safe from malware. If they did I wouldn't have a job. They are important to have, but they're not a 100% failsafe. I am not saying a Mac is 100% failsafe either but right now there are no known viruses, and Apple can update immediately if one ever showed up. Another thing is that people think the computer will act different if malware is present. In most cases, it will not. I am not saying this to be argumentative, I just wanted to make you aware since I hear this all the time from users at work. They all have antivirus on their machines but they will still pop up infected.

That aside I use Macs because Windows simply wasn't capable of doing what I needed it to do so I had to look at alternate OS's. I switched when Vista came out and had the nasty pre-service pack 1 bug that prevented large amounts of data being transferred from one drive to another. Linux was able to transfer the data just fine, but Linux didn't have the programs I needed so I went Mac and haven't looked back. I go with whatever OS supports my needs the best, and right now it is Mac. Being an IT guy I used to be anti-mac because of what I heard word of mouth (a stupid way to judge things), then I tried one and realized it wasn't so bad after all. Then I ordered one and have been using them exclusively (outside of work) ever since.

As for hardware, too many people get caught up in price and hardware specs. Hardware specs will never be able to be compared across operating systems. If someone tells you otherwise I'd suggest never listening to that persons computer advice. It would be like comparing two cars with different engines. Sure both will drive you places but there will be performance differences.

Windows and Mac are very different OS's. Sure to a user with simple needs they may appear the same, and either would work, but for those with advanced needs we pick the OS that does what we need it to do. If you want performance and stability, a Mac or Linux machine is your bet. If you want performance and compatibility, a Windows machine would be your best bet, just be aware that often with Windows performance degrades over time with the introduction of service packs and updates. That being said many people upgrade win machines more frequently and may not see this degradation.

One last thing you mentioned is price. Its rare to see someone actually accurately compare prices between Win and Mac machines, because if they did the prices are not much different. When I bought the Mac Pro in my sig, it was the cheapest computer with those specs. Dell and HP were at minimum $1600 more for the same configuration, I still have the comparison sheets somewhere at work. When comparing iMacs people often price Windows boxes without a 27inch LED display with a built in webcam, speakers, and USB ports. Some people may not want to spend money for all of the extras which is fine, but when doing price comparisons its only fair to include the extras for a more accurate representation of price.

Apple also has a bit different of a demographic. Sure many people love Apple products but the people you see most with them are creative types. When these people buy a computer, it is usually one of the cheapest components of their workflow. Price software like Adobe Creative Suit ($2500), Maya Ultimate ($8000), Houdini ($8000), RealFlow ($5000) etc etc, not to mention camera gear and lens costs for the photographers and videographers that use Macs. The Macs don't seem so expensive anymore ;)

The TLDR version:

If you want stability and performance, go Mac.
If you want compatibility and performance, go Windows.
 
I use windows 7 64. Before that windows vista 64 and before that xp 64.
I have never had a reliability issue with windows or any pc I have built or bought.
I just want to kill that myth.

I have just bought a new 27" iMac for image editing and family computer , as funnily enough, it was the best value for the spec and the monitor is exceptional.

I like the os, it reminds me of a slicker version of kde.
Is it better then win 7, probably on balance yes, although there are a few things superior on win 7.

All in all they are both excellent. I actually appreciate not having all the cables on my desk that I used to need.

There is no slam dunk but both dell and apple are purveyors of fine computers IMHO

The apple does look brill though !
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

Macs may be expensive but they hold there value. Also my pc crashes almost a few times a month and i have a very decent spec pc an my Mac has never let me down.
 
Here's a recent experience which for me sums up the value:

Last week I was at a meeting, sitting around a conference room table. There were 2 Macs (a MBA and a MBP) and 6 Dell laptops on the table. Two of the Dells needed to be restarted because of some OS issue, one of which never got going, while the 2 Macs just quietly did what they were built to do.

OS X is why I think they are worth the extra money.
 
I'm using an expensive piece of hardware so I can use what I believe to be a superior OS. The hardware, well I can take it or leave it, but the OS is something I don't want to leave.
 
Why people are using cheap PCs, are there any advantages?

Nice question, but of course it's rhetorical :D .. I'm curious what would PC people out there say with this simple question.

I am above average Mac user . I know PC look cheap but I see absolutely no point spending less than half money for bit cheapo hardware .

If you are going to say it is safe from viruses (already) I might say I don't get viruses on Mac either (not using any antiviruses ) and I use Ubuntu Linux as well which is trying to be similar to Mac OS X in design and feel

I am not against Windows or PC just curious why so many people have these cheap machines
Thank you

What a revelation :D ..

(Just kidding OP, don't take it seriously)
 
Last edited:
My first personal computer experience was on Macs. After that Windows just seemed clunky. Of course that was 20 years ago so things have changed regarding the operating systems for both Macs and Windows but I still prefer Mac and I am willing to pay more for Mac.

My problem is with the current desktop line up and the gap between the mini and the Mac Pro. A computer with a built in screen is something I just do not want.

So after 20 years I'm actually considering ending my Mac experience because I can't get the hardware in the configuration I want and that meets my needs. And switching is only possible because the gap between OSX and Windows isn't as big as it used to be.
 
Because They Last

I have used Macs since 1986. Right now I have an Air, two MB Pro's, an iMac, a Powerbook and two old Wall Street Laptops. All still work. Period.

PC's may be somewhat less initially, but they will not hold up over time.

Macs are built to last.

You can buy cheap initially but you really do get what you pay for.

You can buy a cheap car that falls apart after 4-5 years or get something that will last and last. I am driving a 2001 Lexus LS430 with over 145K miles and it doesn't have one rattle or squeak and just keeps on running. I bought it used 5 years ago for about what I would have paid for some piece of crap.

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. And you need to think long term.

And if you can't afford a new Mac, get a refurb or used. I have done that on most of my purchases. And if you can find one with the extended Applecare, it takes away any worries.
 
I use windows 7 64. Before that windows vista 64 and before that xp 64.
I have never had a reliability issue with windows or any pc I have built or bought.
I just want to kill that myth.

I have just bought a new 27" iMac for image editing and family computer , as funnily enough, it was the best value for the spec and the monitor is exceptional.

I like the os, it reminds me of a slicker version of kde.
Is it better then win 7, probably on balance yes, although there are a few things superior on win 7.

All in all they are both excellent. I actually appreciate not having all the cables on my desk that I used to need.

There is no slam dunk but both dell and apple are purveyors of fine computers IMHO

The apple does look brill though !
Anecdotal evidence is not absolute proof. Just because I've never seen <insert something obscure here> does not mean that it does not exist.

The registry bloat, DLL hell, BSODs etc.. are not made up. I've worked with Windows since 3.1 days. My windows 7 machine started off well, but I see now it's starting to succumb to the usual windows issues. Have you ever written code in Windows? Then you will know all about DLL hell, registry cleaners and having to reinstall every 6 weeks or so. You will come across this problem on any application that exceeds "hello world" where one day things don't work because Windows refuses to use your latest DLLs, where you have changed the interface, and insists on using the old version when the application runs, despite the fact that you've registered the new DLLs.

Then you unregister the old DLLs, clean the registry and register the new DLLs again and it still does not work. You repeat this a couple of times because things are still not working and wonder why this procedure worked yesterday. Then you hit the computer and reinstall XP and everything works perfectly. It's a pity, though, about that wasted time.

I've only switched to OSX in 2009 and haven't looked back since. What impresses me the most is the fact that my 2009 MBP still works as well as the day I've bought it. I cannot say the same thing for any windows machine that I've owned and I've owned a lot of them.
 
Last edited:
The registry bloat, DLL hell, BSODs etc.. are not made up. I've worked with Windows since 3.1 days. My windows 7 machine started off well, but I see now it's starting to succumb to the usual windows issues. Have you ever written code in Windows? Then you will know all about DLL hell,

DLLs were a great breakthough, away from monolithic hell where everytime you want a new minor feature somewhere you have to recompile the whole kernel, still a major issue with Linux today

95% of BSODs (MS's own stats) are based on OEM faulty drivers. Windows has a much wider compatability and hardware universe then mac. In the old days you couldn't even compare.

OsX is based on freebsd and feels very x-windowy
the directory system is a nightmare. The only reason it works well today is the sheer amount of code that monitors installation. Even so OsX still bungs up over time (I just read a latest issue of some mac magazine, can't remember the name, advising how to speed up macs. Alot of this advice looks just like windows).

That leaves use with the registry. Its a single database of settings (rather then a dispersed, non-standard and difficult to search well (awk, grep, whatever) directory structure where no standard is enforced between applications - like UNIX).
The registry is easy to search and repair.
Unfortunately, due to the OEM plug-in nature of Windows many installation programs leaves stuff lying around.

I agree Mac OsX is a good iteration of FreeBSD, and as I said above I like it alot. Windows has also much improved.

I know there are alot of complaints about Wndows but that is mostly due to the factor that everyone uses it, there is the most hardware and software avilable, and in these millions of applicaitons and usage you are bound to get cock ups. Albeit MS has better controlled them over time.

Lastly its a cheek to peddle the old thing about bloat. This is purely extra funcitonality that users demand. A web browser was called Bloat at some point. I would remind you that OsX comes with iTunes, iphoto, igarage band (whats that all about!) and a bunch of other things I never use

I have used many PCs, managed development teams and have advised IT management in the past.
I have never seen big issues with Windows and its always been a reliable workhorse since NT 3.51

rgds
 
2 reasons why i bought an imac after being a pc user for over 10 years:

1) my refurbished imac with applecare was not much more expensive than if i were to buy a similar all-in-one with an extended warranty.

2) customer service at apple is top notch if there are any problems with my imac. i can't say the same with other companies even if i bought their extended warranty.

those two reasons alone justified my apple purchase.
 
BSOD - virtually never seen one - right from Windows 3.1 I do question many users computer skills if they encountered many of these.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this one. Since most blue screens of death are caused by drivers running in kernel mode how does this equate to users' computers skills?
 
DLLs were a great breakthough, away from monolithic hell where everytime you want a new minor feature somewhere you have to recompile the whole kernel, still a major issue with Linux today
Dynamic Link Libraries are a great concept, but have been poorly implemented in Windows. Microsoft themselves have admitted this by trying various ways to fix the problem: WFP in Win2000, GAC in .NET and now winsxs.

The monolithic design of the Linux kernel versus the hybrid/modular kernel in Windows NT and above has nothing to do with this discussion around DLLs and DLL Hell.

Early versions of Windows ran on MS-DOS. MS-DOS provided all of the OS level operations and effectively acted as the kernel. The higher level functions, such as the drawing API (GDI) were implemented in Windows Dynamic Link Libraries.

Linux has its own implementation of DLL now, called modules, and Linux drivers can be part of the kernel or can be separate as loadable modules.

Now here is the thing. The Linux kernel is monolithic and the Windows NT+ kernel is modular/hybrid, yet Unix or Linux, as an operating system, are designed to be modular, whereas Windows is monolithic in its design.

Your argument is akin to saying, "I have a dog therefore I hate cats".

95% of BSODs (MS's own stats) are based on OEM faulty drivers. Windows has a much wider compatability and hardware universe then mac. In the old days you couldn't even compare.

This could be a discussion around differences in Microsoft's and Apple's philosophies - controlling the hardware and software versus software on other hardware platforms beyond your control. The same discussion could be had about iOS and Android.

On my current Windows 7 personal build I've only experienced 2 BSODs and I can attribute those to the 3G USB modem and, clearly, a somewhat dodgy driver implementation. Should a driver for an external device bring down the whole kernel though?

As I've mentioned Linux supports modular drivers, but it is a monolithic kernel and the services within it are interdependent. Despite the monolithic approach the Linux kernel is designed to be minimal and almost every useful feature that a user will see will not have access to vulnerable parts of the system. Now let's go back to Windows. As you have mentioned most Windows BSODs can be traced back to faulty drivers and, in fact, they are often caused by one group of drivers specifically - graphics cards. The problem is that Windows integrates functions such as graphics into the kernel and a bug in the drivers can cause a system failure. In Linux this bug may cause the graphical desktop to crash but not the entire system and the desktop can be restarted without having the need to reboot.


OsX is based on freebsd and feels very x-windowy
the directory system is a nightmare. The only reason it works well today is the sheer amount of code that monitors installation. Even so OsX still bungs up over time (I just read a latest issue of some mac magazine, can't remember the name, advising how to speed up macs. Alot of this advice looks just like windows).
I cannot really comment on this because my technical knowledge of OSX is still lacking and I am learning more every day. I have read about directory problems before, but not in any depth.

That leaves use with the registry. Its a single database of settings (rather then a dispersed, non-standard and difficult to search well (awk, grep, whatever) directory structure where no standard is enforced between applications - like UNIX).
The registry is easy to search and repair.
Unfortunately, due to the OEM plug-in nature of Windows many installation programs leaves stuff lying around.
I must commend you because I've never actually seen someone trying to defend the registry. The issues with the registry are well known and can be found with a quick search of the internet so I won't repeat them here.

Even Microsoft is trying to steer developers away from the registry by encouraging use of configuration files in .NET for storing data that would have in the past been stored in the registry.

"The Application Settings feature of Windows Forms makes it easy to create, store, and maintain custom application and user preferences on the client computer. With Windows Forms application settings, you can store not only application data such as database connection strings, but also user-specific data, such as user application preferences. Using Visual Studio or custom managed code, you can create new settings, read them from and write them to disk, bind them to properties on your forms, and validate settings data prior to loading and saving."

I agree Mac OsX is a good iteration of FreeBSD, and as I said above I like it alot. Windows has also much improved.

I know there are alot of complaints about Wndows but that is mostly due to the factor that everyone uses it, there is the most hardware and software avilable, and in these millions of applicaitons and usage you are bound to get cock ups. Albeit MS has better controlled them over time.

Lastly its a cheek to peddle the old thing about bloat. This is purely extra funcitonality that users demand. A web browser was called Bloat at some point. I would remind you that OsX comes with iTunes, iphoto, igarage band (whats that all about!) and a bunch of other things I never use
True, but I can remove iTunes, iPhoto and iGarage Band without adversely affecting core parts of the operating system. A web browser is an application. In windows it was made to be a core part of the operating system and hence why MS has been battling with the insecurities. Have you ever tried to remove internet explorer from Windows? Hell, there was a whole anti-trust law suit about this.

This is the key issue at play here. Some of the design decisions in Windows have been baffling. The features are not separated into sensible layers and the interdependencies between parts of the system grow in complexity. I've already mentioned that Windows includes far too many features into its core. This is bad for stability, but also bad for security, because so many of the subsystems are inter-dependent on each other and because they have access to the core. Therefore if someone finds a security flaw in the graphics rendering system, the nature of Windows' design makes it easy to use this flaw to take control of the entire system.

I have used many PCs, managed development teams and have advised IT management in the past.
I have never seen big issues with Windows and its always been a reliable workhorse since NT 3.51

rgds
I don't want to get into a xxxx swinging contest, but let me assure you that my credentials, education, CV and foot size are sound.
 
I am above average PC user . I know Macs look cool but I see absolutely no point spending more than twice money for bit dated hardware .

If you are going to say it is safe from viruses I might say I don't get viruses on windows either (using free antiviruses ) and I use Ubuntu Linux as well which is quite similar to Mac OS X in design and feel

I am not against Apple or Mac just curious why so many people have these expensive machines
Thank you

It's called capitalism - something that Steve Jobs was very very good at!
 
Expensive is a relative term. What's expensive to one may not be expensive to another. I buy Macs because they meet my needs, primarily because of Mac OS X, and the price is one I'm willing and able to pay. Why do people buy Mercedes or larger homes or Rolexes or anything that has a cheaper alternative? Because they can!

you are the reason people can't stand macs. thinking you are a mercedes cause you have a mac. pc's have a low end and an extremely high end, a much higher end than any Mac could dream possible. i'm switching back to PC so I can drive my BWM again and leave all the Mac wannabe's in the dust.
 
Well the one message that appears to come through loud and clear in threads such as this is that most (though not all) Apple users are OK using a Mac but are less than competent with any other forms of computing. All these Windows BSOD, Windows viruses, Windows Malware, Windows slow downs and hardware failures - what an embarrassment. There are literally billions of Windows users across the planet, the vast majority of which never experience anything approaching the problems that Mac users appear to have when let loose with Windows? As a computer user with some twenty odd years experience I'm at a loss to explain this phenomenon. :confused:
 
you are the reason people can't stand macs. thinking you are a mercedes cause you have a mac. pc's have a low end and an extremely high end, a much higher end than any Mac could dream possible. i'm switching back to PC so I can drive my BWM again and leave all the Mac wannabe's in the dust.

BWM? Never heard of it.
 
Be nice children!

The OP has respectfully asked for some thoughts and opinions on the different platforms. Too bad that one can't ask a question without getting treated so rudely as to be called a troll. No wonder people view Mac users as elitist snobs.

I prefer a Mac, but I don't bash PC's to justify the high profit markup Apple charges. I'm honest about it. It's just business. If you want the Apple OS you're going to have to pay Apples price. It's as simple as that.

Agree with this, why are so many posts uncivilised? This is a forum for learning. And I'm trying to learn to use a PC after many years on a Mac but I'm finding it very difficult. I find the Mac to be very user-friendly and visually easy to follow. I'm getting very lost trying to find files on the PC, but it's something I want to learn just so I can. Good luck, cheers.
 
I am above average PC user . I know Macs look cool but I see absolutely no point spending more than twice money for bit dated hardware .

If you are going to say it is safe from viruses I might say I don't get viruses on windows either (using free antiviruses ) and I use Ubuntu Linux as well which is quite similar to Mac OS X in design and feel

I am not against Apple or Mac just curious why so many people have these expensive machines
Thank you

When you buy an expensive mac you get the support, the ecosystem, the store you can walk into, the complete back up system via time machine, the lack of viruses and threats - no free antivirus, unless you feel like installing one, and complete interactivity with your machine. It's the little things that make up the difference between using a modern Mac and a PC.

As you read anything, double click a word you don't know with three fingers and there is the definition without the need to pull out any other app. Install a multitouch trackpad app and you can make any gesture open any app, add any keyboard letter with any gesture and you get access to any function on your machine with one or two clicks. And so on and so forth with almost anything on the machine regarding any function.

If you don't have the cash for a mac, or absolutely abhor the business practices - which in my view are truly disgusting (claiming gandhi is on your side while you make 60% profit on your products, meanwhile forcing your slave factories to set up nets from building to building to catch suicidees and sign preemployment agreements for families not to sue - truly disgusting) - a $299 PC will do the job and for most of the planet it is a life saver.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.