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Why So Many Geeks Do Not Get the iPad
- Thread starter NebulaClash
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I want to have something that offers me the functionality I need. It has to be powerful and should work as I expect to. The iPad is a great device for people with low needs. As a productivity device it is severely lacking features, but as many have already pointed out, this is not the purpose of the iPad. It is a great device to consume content and it can provide all kinds of entertainment. I love it as it is and I do not expect it to grow into a fully functional computer. Sure, that might happen in 3-5 years, but even then, the form factor is limiting its functionality.
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specs matter to me. but i am lazy. i just want it to do what i want and look good doing it. anyone who can manage that will get my cash. these geeks the op talks about (i haven't met any of them or even heard their rants) may not like apple devices because they don't meet their needs. that's fine. fewer people in line.
it's not a post pc world anymore than it is post modern. it is now, and now we have more platform options. i feel that ios is still clunky, so we have a long way to go before geeks like me will stop looking at other tablets. pleased with the progress? yes. satisfied? no.
specs matter to me. but i am lazy. i just want it to do what i want and look good doing it. anyone who can manage that will get my cash. these geeks the op talks about (i haven't met any of them or even heard their rants) may not like apple devices because they don't meet their needs. that's fine. fewer people in line.
it's not a post pc world anymore than it is post modern. it is now, and now we have more platform options. i feel that ios is still clunky, so we have a long way to go before geeks like me will stop looking at other tablets. pleased with the progress? yes. satisfied? no.
no. you are not one of those geeks. you are someone who prefers the android experience over apple's for various reasons, but recognize that there is a place in the world for the ipad and its approach to things. you get the ipad.
by "those geeks" i am referring back to the op's take on things. the op seems to see a polarized world of geeks ranting about the ipad's weaknesses and raving about the superiority of other platforms. they don't get it.
in my experience, geeks and regular people get it. they just want a device that works for them, and they don't care a whole lot about the ideological debates. for many geeks, the ipad is inadequate, so they buy an ipad + another device. they get the ipad just fine.
Couter, I see you revived my old thread. Thank you for so clearly articulating the geek perspective. And indeed, what you said is pretty much how I understand geeks to think, and I had that in my mind when I said geeks don't get the iPad.
The geeks of the world think logically. Things are objectively better, and that's that because of X, Y, Z. They get upset if you use emotional reasoning to trump their logic -- it quite literally makes no sense.
So they are completely missing the revolution that is occurring. They literally cannot perceive it because it doesn't fit their logical worldview. But the much bigger world of consumers doesn't think like that and doesn't draw the same conclusions. The "consumer" you spoke about is a geek consumer, the type to study specs, etc. Most people are not like that.
You: Apple prevents me from using my device.
Them: Apple protects us from malware and bad apps.
You: I can do whatever I want with my Android device.
Them: I can do whatever I can imagine with my iPad. What else do you want me to be able to do?
You: I can customize it by rooting it.
Them: I can customize it with more apps than I can imagine, or by plugging a device into it. Why on earth would I want to root something anyway?
You: You are limited!
Them: Not in any way I can perceive.
You: But my Android does everything the iPad does!
Them: Not as nicely.
Etc.
The geeks of the world think logically. Things are objectively better, and that's that because of X, Y, Z. They get upset if you use emotional reasoning to trump their logic -- it quite literally makes no sense.
So they are completely missing the revolution that is occurring. They literally cannot perceive it because it doesn't fit their logical worldview. But the much bigger world of consumers doesn't think like that and doesn't draw the same conclusions. The "consumer" you spoke about is a geek consumer, the type to study specs, etc. Most people are not like that.
You: Apple prevents me from using my device.
Them: Apple protects us from malware and bad apps.
You: I can do whatever I want with my Android device.
Them: I can do whatever I can imagine with my iPad. What else do you want me to be able to do?
You: I can customize it by rooting it.
Them: I can customize it with more apps than I can imagine, or by plugging a device into it. Why on earth would I want to root something anyway?
You: You are limited!
Them: Not in any way I can perceive.
You: But my Android does everything the iPad does!
Them: Not as nicely.
Etc.
is that what you meant? well, i guess things make more sense now. geeks aren't missing your revolution anymore than i am missing the justin beiber musical revolution. feel free to enjoy his music. it doesn't do a thing for me. and, i am not upset about it. unless, of course, you tell me that i can only listen to his music.
thankfully, of course, there are options out there. i don't know of any geeks getting upset. they realize quite well that there are different devices for different people, just as couter said. why are you bashing them for having a different perspective?
it sounds reasonable to me...
Yes, more or less that's what I mean. Up until recently, only geeks could use a computer (with any sort of competence unless someone taught them). Now a computing device comes out that truly speaks to the "rest of us" as the old phrase went.
There will always be choice. Steve Jobs called PCs "trucks" and that means they stick around for jobs that are perfect for trucks. But just as geeks can latch onto Linux as the right choice for an OS, yet the world at large can hardly notice it on consumer devices, the iPad will be bigger than the PC market in a matter of years. The geeks will continue to insist that is the wrong choice, and everyone else will just happily keep using their iPads.
this is what i don't understand. do geeks say the ipad is the "wrong" choice? i haven't heard that. geeks (who i know) are happy to have options. they love the ipad. at the same time they prefer to use other devices as well in order to take advantage of the functions they want. what's the problem?
This will never happen. Apple thinks that iCloud is the answer to the file system problem.
I agree with you and I think this is the future!
After I'vbug ought the iPad, It just works and that's what I want. I want it to be simple, I don't need to care about it
After I'vbug ought the iPad, It just works and that's what I want. I want it to be simple, I don't need to care about it
Look at the comments in this thread. Android is better. A PC is what is needed to get the job done. The iPad is too limited, etc.
Those are all ways of saying the iPad is the wrong choice. The more generous ones acknowledge that it might be the right choice for the other guy, and that it is good to have choice. The less generous insist there is no good reason for anyone to buy an iPad.
It all amounts to pissing in the wind, really. Opinions either way are fine, but the reality of the iPad's proliferation and incursion into traditional computing spaces remains, and it will only get stronger with the passage of time. iPad sales projections over the next year are way beyond impressive.
for the whole flash thing, i dont get. flash is essentially like its own simple os; it also does not have intuitive touch interface and is input/mouse gestured.
so i dont see how having flash support would be worthwhile on top of an already simple os.
I apologize for what came across as personal attacks, it wasn't intended that way, I was and still am frustrated by the misconception of people here that geeks don't like the iPad and after a few frosty beverages that frustration got the better of me so again I apologize.
I think a lot of people, geeks included judge the iPad from what they read and how their freedom is being restricted by Apple instead of actual experience using an iPad. There are a lot of restrictions that can sometimes get in the way but often it just takes a few minor changes in workflow to make an iPad work for you.
The lack of a file system is the major one, I'm hoping iCloud resolves that though but still have my doubts, I really wish they would just allow for universal Dropbox support, especially in their own iWork apps, if they did that then just about all my file issues would be resolved. (I currently work around that limitation with a webDAV layer on top of Dropbox but that is far from ideal and shouldn't be required)
Last time I checked just about all geeks were anti flash, so tell me how does lack of flash support adversely affect the geeks here?
I really do want to know what true weaknesses the iPad has that prevents a geek from doing what they need/want to do? I'm not after things like Android letting you use custom ROMs, customize & tweak to your heart's content, the lack of widgets on iOS and all the usual arguments like that but rather what tasks as a geek can you not accomplish on an iPad and why?
I think a lot of people, geeks included judge the iPad from what they read and how their freedom is being restricted by Apple instead of actual experience using an iPad. There are a lot of restrictions that can sometimes get in the way but often it just takes a few minor changes in workflow to make an iPad work for you.
The lack of a file system is the major one, I'm hoping iCloud resolves that though but still have my doubts, I really wish they would just allow for universal Dropbox support, especially in their own iWork apps, if they did that then just about all my file issues would be resolved. (I currently work around that limitation with a webDAV layer on top of Dropbox but that is far from ideal and shouldn't be required)
Last time I checked just about all geeks were anti flash, so tell me how does lack of flash support adversely affect the geeks here?
I really do want to know what true weaknesses the iPad has that prevents a geek from doing what they need/want to do? I'm not after things like Android letting you use custom ROMs, customize & tweak to your heart's content, the lack of widgets on iOS and all the usual arguments like that but rather what tasks as a geek can you not accomplish on an iPad and why?
For what it's worth, it's been a rather fascinating discussion to watch.
I'm rather surprised about how often I'm happy to trust Mac OS X and have the management of files be completely transparent. At the same time, I'm pretty darn happy to have a terminal window where I can occasionally look under the hood and occasionally patch things up. Those are pretty rare, but my experience on a Mac would be very different if I didn't have that option.
Here's what I've seen in this discussion: what's really missing is the lack of definitive cloud-based workflow management. There are certain things that that workflow management must have: the ability to archive work in a way that it is easily findable when needed, and the ability to perform backups of work.
What has been shown so far about the cloud may be sufficient for ordinary customers. I don't think it's good enough for pro users. This will take some time to sort itself out.
One of the more fascinating questions for me personally is how Microsoft is going to fit into Apple's ecology. Will they provide a way for Word users on a PC (or Mac) to documents with someone using Pages on an iPad? Will they use Apple's cloud mechanisms to keep the most current document available everywhere? Will MS make the leap and provide office tools for iOS? If so, will they use Apple's iCloud APIs? And how long will it take for them to develop offerings? I don't think that MS can afford to wait for 2-3 years before joining the iOS ecology.
I have addressed all of your concerns in follow-up posts, and it seems that we actually agree. I do however speak for a large number of people in the communities I am involved in, it may be a small number of people that fall under the definition of geek, but we are geeks nonetheless.
I am predicting that either Dropbox themselves or a third party will add support for iCloud so files saved will be kept in sync both in Dropbox and in iCloud, to me that would be ideal.
Apology accepted, after reading some of your other posts I realize that that was out of character. I'm also aware that I come across as a know-it-all *******, but trust me when I say that I respect everyone's right to their own opinion
And it's not really so much that Geeks can't be productive on an iPad, as I said, a determined Geek is capable of doing pretty much anything with his device. It's Apple's stance behind letting us do so. The amount of effort they expend trying to STOP people from seeing their coding is a perfectly legal method of business, and there is no denying that it is great for making large amounts of money. It's just not one that I can stand behind on a moral level. I believe all information should be free, and while Google is by no means perfect, they are at least trying.
As for flash, well it's not that Geek's love flash, it's that something that is incredibly common on the internet has been banned from Apple products for really no reason at all, the whole concept of it is completely ridiculous. It's more of a jab at Apple's beliefs than a serious argument.
A lot of the Geek's I am familiar with are computer programmers, (my brother included), and they love to play around with root coding. Naturally they are offended when someone else decides that they can't do that, despite having spend hundreds of dollars on the product. And of course on the other side, they will love the product that says "here you go, do whatever you want".
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It will probably be Microsoft that starts offering cross compatibility with Apple. Apple isn't really too big into the whole "making it easy to use non-apple products" thing.
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I'm not usually one to revive old threads, but I felt it would do some good
. And you seem to understand fairly well, I usually just get blank stares whenever I try to explain why an iPhone is inferior to my Android lol. The one point I'd disagree on is that we are unaware of the public opinion, or that we are "missing the revolution", it would be illogical for us to not know the opinions of all parties involved. We are simply part of an entirely different revolution.
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It's funny, I bought GoodReader for $1 when I first got my iPad in order to read some very large PDFs I wanted to have on my iPad. Turns out it has most of the features I'd need from a file-system, like transferring files around between applications, and I've not really felt the burden of this missing file-system access I hear so often.
My co-workers and I are all pre-sales engineers and here is my take on what we feel as we talk about the various tablets on the market.
Right now, the iPad is more geared towards the consumption mentality. Maybe it always will be due to limitations in the hardware and software implementation. I don't know.
Although I own an iPad 1, I am very limited in how I can use it in my professional work environment. Yes, I can look up information on the Internet, check e-mails, read word document, excel spreadsheets, and powerpoint presentations when I need them, but that s really it. Oh, I can also control remote computer/servers with it, too.
However, real productive work cannot be done. Word files with 'track changes' cannot be used. Excel spreadsheets with VBA macros cannot be used. Code compiling cannot be done. Visio or CAD files cannot be viewed or created.
Keep in mind this if from an engineering perspective. Looking at an iPad from a sales perspective, it is a whole different ball of wax. Keeping track of appointments, client lists, showing product data sheets or presentations, checking e-mail, researching companies or executives you are meeting with are all great things that can be done.
RIM tablets are early if ever talked about by anyone. WebOS has been considered a really decent OS but suffered from sub-par hardware and marketing. Android tablets are considered a strong contender since we probably have a 50/50 split of iOS and Android users. However, each has its set of limitation whether it be OS, apps, or hardware.
The fact that Apple got out there first helped other tablet makers because they showed a level of success with the iPhone. That was really only when we started seeing the migration to SmartPhones over traditional phones. The same has happened in the tablet arena.
I have considered getting another non-iOS tablet just to see actual comparisons in my own known environment at my house. Doing so in a store doesn't allow true testing (either sales associates or customers are looking over your shoulder, kids are bumping into you, or they are just not working due to ALL the other people playing with it and beating the ***** out of it due to ignorance or just disrespect of other peoples property).
Moving on to OS X since it was brought up. Most engineers that I know prefer the Mac OS X as an alternative to Windows, particularly if they are not running a true Linux machine. Dual Boot or VM Ware are all a common vernacular in our office.
I'm not sure if my post if necessarily beneficial, but it was what I was thinking as reading some of the posts in the past few days.
Right now, the iPad is more geared towards the consumption mentality. Maybe it always will be due to limitations in the hardware and software implementation. I don't know.
Although I own an iPad 1, I am very limited in how I can use it in my professional work environment. Yes, I can look up information on the Internet, check e-mails, read word document, excel spreadsheets, and powerpoint presentations when I need them, but that s really it. Oh, I can also control remote computer/servers with it, too.
However, real productive work cannot be done. Word files with 'track changes' cannot be used. Excel spreadsheets with VBA macros cannot be used. Code compiling cannot be done. Visio or CAD files cannot be viewed or created.
Keep in mind this if from an engineering perspective. Looking at an iPad from a sales perspective, it is a whole different ball of wax. Keeping track of appointments, client lists, showing product data sheets or presentations, checking e-mail, researching companies or executives you are meeting with are all great things that can be done.
RIM tablets are early if ever talked about by anyone. WebOS has been considered a really decent OS but suffered from sub-par hardware and marketing. Android tablets are considered a strong contender since we probably have a 50/50 split of iOS and Android users. However, each has its set of limitation whether it be OS, apps, or hardware.
The fact that Apple got out there first helped other tablet makers because they showed a level of success with the iPhone. That was really only when we started seeing the migration to SmartPhones over traditional phones. The same has happened in the tablet arena.
I have considered getting another non-iOS tablet just to see actual comparisons in my own known environment at my house. Doing so in a store doesn't allow true testing (either sales associates or customers are looking over your shoulder, kids are bumping into you, or they are just not working due to ALL the other people playing with it and beating the ***** out of it due to ignorance or just disrespect of other peoples property).
Moving on to OS X since it was brought up. Most engineers that I know prefer the Mac OS X as an alternative to Windows, particularly if they are not running a true Linux machine. Dual Boot or VM Ware are all a common vernacular in our office.
I'm not sure if my post if necessarily beneficial, but it was what I was thinking as reading some of the posts in the past few days.