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I consider myself to be a ridiculous geek.

I can and have built computers, I know whats inside most devices and can talk about it at length, and I spend most every day reading about various technologies. I love it. I love it all.

But I still choose Apple products for certain segments at the end of the day, generally because of the ease of use.

Not all geeks have the same wants. :)
 
There's definitely a Post-PC shift happening and ironically I think it started in the PC world first. Everyone knows that it was almost a self-fulfilling prophecy that a new range of CPUs would come out and then software would expand (most notably OSs) and eventually you'd need new hardware. Look at Vista - MS just assumed they could be lazy with the update and it didn't matter that it guzzled up the hard drive and ram cos people would just upgrade. Then Asus put some old parts it had lying around together and invented the netbook. Suddenly people realised they didn't need the latest cutting edge technology to browse the web and run Word. I think this was a decisive moment that panicked Intel and Microsoft. While Intel managed to respond quickly, Microsoft still hasn't responded. Perhaps that were so hung up on getting Windows 7 onto netbooks, the iPad caught them completely off guard hence we are now hearing Windows 8 will run on ARM (i.e. tablets) which in turn is probably making Intel sweat a bit.

Taking this a stage further, I would say that since the Core2 chips we've reached a point where specs are meaningless for the vast majority of people. Of course, there will still be specialist areas where specs are important (CPU power for video encoding, CAD etc), but nowadays 4 GB ram seems standard for PCs so even apps like Photoshop run quite happily on most consumer computers.

Now we have a wave of tablets (both Apple and others) that clearly have the horsepower to run whatever is thrown at them so as has been pointed out again and again traditional specs are becoming meaningless. It is now that the link between hardware and software takes over. For example, there are a lot of very good Android tablets coming out, but they are all specced slightly differently - some have 1 GHz chips, some 1.2 GHz, some have Tigra2 chips, some have PowerVR so how easy will it be to code for them?

I don't even think it will come down to the UI - it's about the UX (user experience). Look at the promotional videos for the Xoom and iPad2:

Xoom

iPad 2

It's not even close - Apple absolutely wipes the floor with the Xoom promotional video - and that was a promo for last year's iPad! Where the Xoom video shows some generic people getting tablets, the Apple one actually shows the reaction people have to it.

If you went to Motorola, Samsung and the other tablet makers and offered them 100% of the "geek" market only they wouldn't want it - they'd rather have the mainstream market.
 
When I say "geeks don't get it" I obviously don't mean 100% of the geek population. I mean, I consider myself geeky.

What I mean is the generic category of person, a certain type of thinking.
 
I would say that I'm a geek... and I can say that I understand the uses of an iPad.. I'm used to always being on the go.. and in situations where my 15.4" MBP is too big to carry around.
 
Easy Analogy for Geeks

An easy analogy for geeks to "get" what Apple is trying to do with the iPad, at least I think, is to compare it to game consoles.

XBox, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP, etc. The vast majority of them is very "closed," and in general, most game players couldn't care less about that unless they are the pirating types or super geeks who really enjoy hacking. The game consoles are all completely controlled by console makers and the makers collect fees from the game content providers.

There is the launcher for games and online game store, but what really matters is the quality of game and how easy it is to obtain games in the online store, not how nice the game launcher is.

The specs are very important and people fight over how good specs are in each console but at the end what really matters is, again, the quality and enjoyment factor of games, not the specs. And it matters if you have the best developers for the system.

So to Apple, the iPad is basically a console where each app works as a game. This was a massive departure from the expectations because geeks all wanted a MacBook Pro with a touch screen sans the keyboard, basically an Apple version of the Windows tablet PC. However now that I've read Jobs' Post-PC interview back in 2007, I think it was the Apple vision all along to create a console-like simplified platform where apps can roam without other things getting in the way.
 
I like that analogy very much. There are the hackers who love to delve into the gaming systems and make them do new things. But the market that wants to just play cool games is vastly larger.
 
I'm a geek who loves apple..

I've been doing this for 19 years as a pro, including working for apple

Your argument is rubbish.
 
And here you fairly clearly demonstrate your own lack of understanding of religion. While there may be those who fit your description, there are also plenty of others who need to ask questions, that have inquiring minds that are always looking, asking and pondering things. You should try reading some of the great works of literature by some of the great theologians. Often, while their subject matter is rather different, their process is not dissimilar from that of science, frequently ending up with more questions than answers. Faith is rarely an easy path.

Neither side is wrong, but one is deluded? Like being condescending much? :rolleyes:

I understand that you are not a religious person. However, you might try to speak (or type, as the case may be) with a little more care. Not only is it clear that you are not a religious person, it is also clear that you have made little effort in understanding religious people, but rather have chosen to dismiss them as deluded simple minded people who don't actively engage life's questions.

Further, you're on a board that is dedicated to discussing Apple products and you have analogized people who like Apple products with your picture of the simple minded religious people.

All around, I'm not sure I could image how your post could be more off base and insulting if you tried.

Off topic, I know, but this post is typical of the religious fanaticism still out there, in this day of supposed modern reason and rational thinking.

Faith is rarely an easy path, quite simply, because religion is innately so irrational. It is indeed a stretch to believe in magical friends in the sky who created everything around us in 7 days solely for our pleasure. I think we've had plenty of these medieval theories from theologians blasted at us from that period. Those honored theologians, by the way, would not have hesitated one second to burn those of us at the stake who didn't accept these fairy tales and superstitions.

So, I think religion is an accurate analogy to people who buy Apple products without critically thinking about what their being told to believe. Both of these thought processes are fairly mindless, requiring a certain suspension of rational thinking.
 
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So, I think religion is an accurate analogy to people who buy Apple products without critically thinking about what their being told to believe. Both of these thought processes are fairly mindless, requiring a certain suspension of rational thinking.

(Reply to certain aspects of this message sent privately.)

While I would absolutely agree with you that anyone who buys any product without some critical thought process is being somewhat mindless, your implication is that anyone buying Apple products is guilty of this. And I can tell you right now that this is not true.

Consider my father-in-law. He was a dyed-in-the-wool PC man for a long time. I had tried to convince him to consider a Mac, even to just discuss the possibility of it with me, and he had flat out said no. (Now, at this point, wouldn't you agree that he was falling into your "mindless" category? He was buying PCs because that's what he had been told he needed, and he wasn't even willing to consider the possibility that something else would work.) Now, all that changed one day when he was at a conference, and the laptop that was supposed to be used to drive the projector wasn't connecting properly. They brought another one in, and it wouldn't connect properly, either. Then someone else who was attending the conference pulled out his MacBook Pro and it just worked. My father-in-law told me that, next time, he wanted to be the guy with the computer that just worked. So, we discussed what all of his needs were and came to the conclusion that a Mac could meet them all. Thus, here we have someone who is now an Apple user, but got there through a critical though process. Certainly not a mindless user just doing what he was told.
 
Perhaps you don't.

My PC could be considered oh 15+ years old.

Well that's how old the lovely quality steel case is.

I've changed motherboards, CPU's, Graphics cards, Sound cards, Hard drives etc etc as I've needed to.

In effect my PC has been a 120Mhz Pentium, and it could be a 3.8Ghz i7 if I wanted.

There is no need to throw it all away and start again, that's the beauty of it.

Say you are waiting for Apple to implement USB3 but you can't have it as they don't fit it. Well I can go order a USB3 card on Monday, and by Tuesday evening I'll be running USB3.

In the same way, I may get a new game, and think ohh this is struggling, my graphics card is really not up to the job. I don't have to sell off my entire machine, I can just go and order a new graphics card.

Some Apple owners would dream of being able to upgrade an iMac like this but Apple don't allow it. Ok, some people do take them apart if they are brave and can upgrade soma parts of them.

You may be happy and content to allow Apple to make your choices for you and relieve you of having to think for yourself what you need.
Others love the flexibility a PC gives then and they would never give that up.

You may go to Disney land and enjoy the "experience" that been created for you the consumer, and be happy with that. Me I'd like to go, but I'd also want to look underground and see the tunnels the staff use and "Behind the scenes"

In a way I guess you could also liken it to a religion. Some people love to believe and follow a faith, there being an almighty up there and everything is neat and tidy, they read the stories and have a contented life, just accepting their faith.

Others cannot do this, need to ask questions, cannot just accept the stories and have a enquiring mind that is always looking, asking, and pondering things.

Neither side is wrong as such, deluded perhaps and prefers an easy and more cosy path through life.

Of course, either side probably cannot begin to understand why others can think any different to them.
I mean, how could anyone who believes in say millions of years of evolution even begin to understand how anyone, over the age about about 10 believe there is a man floating above us who created everything as is, in 7 days.

And no, I don't mean Steve Jobs ;)

Piggie, while I agree with a number of the things you've said...your analogy doesn't work. Snowy River was right in his rebuttal to your post; your analogy skews too far into your own opinion and winds up tainting your "point" with personal belief. Or sometimes, narrowly missing what you truly "meant" to say. Had you edited this, it could have wound up being a coup de grace to this thread, making nearly all before it moot. Unfortunately, it didn't come off that way.

P.S. *diluted
 
(Reply to certain aspects of this message sent privately.)

While I would absolutely agree with you that anyone who buys any product without some critical thought process is being somewhat mindless, your implication is that anyone buying Apple products is guilty of this. And I can tell you right now that this is not true.

Consider my father-in-law. He was a dyed-in-the-wool PC man for a long time. I had tried to convince him to consider a Mac, even to just discuss the possibility of it with me, and he had flat out said no. (Now, at this point, wouldn't you agree that he was falling into your "mindless" category? He was buying PCs because that's what he had been told he needed, and he wasn't even willing to consider the possibility that something else would work.) Now, all that changed one day when he was at a conference, and the laptop that was supposed to be used to drive the projector wasn't connecting properly. They brought another one in, and it wouldn't connect properly, either. Then someone else who was attending the conference pulled out his MacBook Pro and it just worked. My father-in-law told me that, next time, he wanted to be the guy with the computer that just worked. So, we discussed what all of his needs were and came to the conclusion that a Mac could meet them all. Thus, here we have someone who is now an Apple user, but got there through a critical though process. Certainly not a mindless user just doing what he was told.

Good point, granted (to a certain extent). Although I'd point out that your father-in-law wasn't really a critical thinking Apple believer as much as wanting whatever solution that works. So yes, he was not mindless because he didn't make his choice simply because it was an Apple product, but rather because it solved his problem. Apple believers, on the other hand, often buy just because it's what Apple pushes and markets as the latest and greatest. Not all, but many. That's being mindless.

By the way, I never said everyone buying Apple poducts thinks and behaves this way. My point was that many tend to, in addressing the OP's theory that geeks want too many facts and specs, and should instead just accept Apple products as they're marketed to us.
 
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As I said a year ago on this site, and as Steve Jobs said this week, we are now living in the Post-PC world. Oh sure, tons of PCs still sell, but they are no more the industry and consumer focus than are mainframes (which also continue to sell). The reason so many people online do not get the iPad is because they are used to thinking in the PC era, and they have not yet accepted and realized that we are now living in the Post-PC era, or as I call it the Tablet Era.

People love to throw spec sheets at the iPad to say why it is inadequate, as if that has anything to do with anything in the Post-PC era. That is PC era thinking. It no longer applies. Think about buying a car. In the early days you had to be an enthusiast to know anything about cars, and a good mechanic too. That's not true today. Hardly anyone goes into a dealership and decides based upon ignition timing specs compared to the competition. No, people go to the dealership and decide based on features, and how the car performs, and how it looks, the reputation of the manufacturer, and the price, and based on what they are used to. The mechanics of the world might still look at specs, but the vast majority of car buyers do not know and do not need to know what is under the hood.

Tablet buyers today want to know how it performs, what features it has, how it looks, the reputation of the manufacturer and the price. Not on spec sheets. The iPad performs well, has the features people enjoy, looks fantastic, comes from the manufacturer with the best reputation for quality, is priced cheaper than or equal to anyone else, and comes from the company that makes that great music player and phone.

Geeks will continue to rant and rail about how the iPad doesn't perform well when they browse, doesn't have the feature THEY want, that Apple is Teh Evil, and is grossly and greedily overpriced. The other 95% of humanity won't have a clue what they are talking about, and will continue to buy iPads in record numbers.

Nobody cares what's under the hood of today's handheld devices. They just want it to work. The iPad does that very, very well. And we see how the market responds in today's Post-PC era.

Apple gets it. How long will it take for the geeks to realize that spec sheets no longer matter?

Apple is a marketing machine. Post pc era? Similar to a mainframe? Are you crazy? The PC market GREW last year. Of course it won't grow the same as the Mac/iPad market because that was so minuscule to begin with, that growth percentages are naturally larger. PC's sold way way over 300 million units last year, and that was in an already mature market! This stuff isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and their sales absolutely crushes anything Apple puts out. Crushes.

Sorry, but we are strongly in a PC dominated era. People need to work and actually do things. My iPad collects dust, and I certainly won't be shelling out for an iPad 2. If you really believe we are in a "post pc" age, I would have to say you either A) Don't get out in the real world, like...at all. or B) buy into Apple marketing and RDF speak hook line and sinker.

The thing I find really scary is that people DO believe the things Jobs says. This video is right on the money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNSn6AtdSGM
 

That video is very funny, at least the first 2/3 of it anyway.

Sorry, but we are strongly in a PC dominated era. People need to work and actually do things.

I think the debate here depends on the target market, and target uses. The point is that it used to be the case that you HAD to use a PC for everything. Now, for content consumption and some light content creation/editing, you don't HAVE to use a PC. You can use a device that's smaller and more portable, with a long battery life, more fun to use because it doesn't get hot and is not noisy (no fans), is more social because you don't have to be tied to your study or hunched like a preying mantis over your laptop like 1000s of execs.

Of course the iPad is not a real business tool except for businesses that need to augment their standard IT infrastructure with a tool with this specific set of features, which of course relegates it to niche use.

When Jobs talks about a post-pc world, I agree he should preface it with a narrowing of the market in which he is targeting.

I agree with you that we are not in a post-PC world. But Apple is playing in a post-PC market. And that market is exploding. Irrespective of whether you love or hate Jobs' rhetoric. So while you're complaining, Apple is out there actually doing real business, the business of selling the the right products to the right market and the right time, and being rewarded for it.

It's easier to criticise than to achieve.
 
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Apple throws around a lot of BS.

Post PC era? LOL.

Call me when office computers are replaced with iPads. When it comes down to doing real work and I mean real work (not some half-assed typing emails while surfing your facebook on the side kind of work), iPad does not replace a computer. And it probably won't for a long time.

It is a consumer product. Sure it is cool and all. I have one myself. But as someone else mentioned, it is a toy.
 
I'd call myself a geek. I work in engineering on PC's all day long. I am not a software engineer but I work with a mathematical computer language all day long which is a sort of pseudo-software. A lot of my colleagues are PC buffs and hate apple. Personally though I have become a big apple fan and I notice a shift as more and more people are getting into apple too. I think the iPhone has been the insight into the apple philosophy for many people and people like it. I started with an iPhone, I now have a MacBook and iPad as well.

For me it is the simplicity and the just works ethos that I love and as someone who does the job I do do you would assume that i wouldn't like this and that I would hate the closed down approach. Personally having spent all day working on computers I want something that just works, works well and always works. I don't want to have to fiddle around to set it up.

A friend of mine picked up an iPad yesterday and I showed her a few bits and bobs as this is her first apple product. I installed an app and she couldn't believe how simple it was and how it just worked. She was slightly daunted by the whole iTunes sync thing which personally I don't mind but I think apple need to try and get rid of this, especially for the iPad but apart from that she is amazed how well everything just works. The fact that apple build the OS and the hardware means they really achieve in user satisfaction and I find apple stuff so desirable and a pleasure to use.

I often find that people who slag off apple have not used an apple product. They slag off the specs but until you have actually used an apple decvice for some time you can't appreciate what it's all about. I actually slagged off the first iPhone and thought it was rubbish but as soon as I bought the iPhone 3G I was hooked and have never looked back!!
 
Geeks hate Apple because Apple excludes them

I'm sure it's been said, but it's worth repeating: geeks hate Apple because Apple has chosen a closed architecture for their devices. Geeks can't "build their own", they can't switch out motherboards and hard drives, they can't tinker. So what has proven to be wonderfully easy for all of us in that "everything just works" frustrates the hell out of geeks because they can't show off their wizardry.

Also, having a company full of Apple computers and devices puts half the tech department out of work, so geeks hate Apple because they become somewhat redundant in an Apple world.
 
Apple is a marketing machine. Post pc era? Similar to a mainframe? Are you crazy? The PC market GREW last year.

Many economists and sociologists would say that the US and Europe were examples of post-industrial economies, and yet we buy and use trillions of dollars worth of products made in factories.

The point of "Post PC" isn't that the PC will disappear. Its just that it will play a less important role in the lives of consumers, students, businesspeople. And that a lot of the tasks it was called on to perform will be taken over by smartphones, tablets and other mobile devices.

From the tech industry's perspective it means that most of the opportunities for growth and profitability will be in "Post PC" products. Why else did Motorola (which has had pretty much zero presence as a PC manufacturer) spend a billion or so developing the Xoom? It was because it felt that it was a new, rapidly growing, and yet distinct market.
 
Apple is a marketing machine. Post pc era? Similar to a mainframe? Are you crazy? The PC market GREW last year. Of course it won't grow the same as the Mac/iPad market because that was so minuscule to begin with, that growth percentages are naturally larger. PC's sold way way over 300 million units last year, and that was in an already mature market! This stuff isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and their sales absolutely crushes anything Apple puts out. Crushes.

Sorry, but we are strongly in a PC dominated era. People need to work and actually do things. My iPad collects dust, and I certainly won't be shelling out for an iPad 2. If you really believe we are in a "post pc" age, I would have to say you either A) Don't get out in the real world, like...at all. or B) buy into Apple marketing and RDF speak hook line and sinker.

I get out in the real world, the world where mainframes still sell in order to get real work done, but it is not the mainframe era any more.

You are so going to hate this next decade. But even you will be defaulting to a tablet within the next ten years. But you will by then have forgotten you wrote this. I won't forget though, for my thread was precisely about people who think the way you do. You simply do not see what is coming.
 
Post-PC era:
Maybe if you are referring to desktop PCs. Tablets will not replace laptops anytime soon, their functionality lacks, UI lacks, physical interaction lacks. Why would I want buy a tablet and carry around a BT keyboard just so I can be productive on a tablet.

The HCI components of a tablet are not quite where they need to be. Once you add a keyboard it becomes a laptop/netbook. Expansion ports are another issue with "certain" tablets, access to files, the list goes on.

There are quite a few issues that need to be ironed out before we, as a world society, are thrown into a tablet, post-PC, era. Might as well say we are in a post-PC, smartphone era right now then...same concept...that is if your are looking at development and sales of a few years back.

With all of the issues left to be ironed out in the tablet scene, in this "tablet era" I think one would be better off with the 11" MBA, though you do lose the touch capability and extra-simplicity of use.

Geeks & Apple haters:
To each their own. I have been in the IT field since Windows 3.11 and based on my own experiences, which are limited with Apple/Mac, there are things that I find attractive about Apple's products and things I don't. Yes it is nice to rip open a desktop and upgrade everything inside at one time or piece by piece, rip open a win-laptop and upgrade the processor if the urge hits...that's why I will continue to own Windows/Linux based PCs.

Two iPhones later I purchased a MBP in the middle of last year to develop apps. Since then the memory has been upgraded along with the HDD, and ODD/HDD swap. I don't claim to know everything about the inner workings of OS X, it will take some time. The MBP has the best build quality of any laptop I have owned hands-down. Will I own another, maybe if they ever put a dedicated GPU in the 13". Right now it is used everyday for school and other daily activities.

The next purchase was the iPad, used, 16gb wi-fi. This is used for reading news while laying in bed, maybe some light trivia games and stuff like that. Nothing pressing. Some apps crash and close, while annoying that is all it is.

Personally, I don't hate either camp. However, both Apple and its competitors (no matter the product) have their flaws and drawbacks. In the end the products are tools that individuals use to accomplish tasks, be it productivity, entertainment, etc...that's it. Choosing one over the other does not make you a better person than the next man or woman.

Informed/Uninformed Buyer....Specs....Etc:
I think it is a generation issue. Not calling out our elders but consumer technology, as we know it, has not been around that long leaving the older generations to trust those salespeople who make their living...selling. As the generations become younger, typically, the more informed and exposed they are to technology.

No matter what it still boils down to whether or not they actually care about the technology and how/why it works. So I would have to agree that most pc/tablet manufacturers, not just Apple, cater more to the non-geek/non-modder populace...the everyday-man.

Using Religion as an Analogy:

One should never refer to religion when discussing topics in a public forum. Similar to politics.
 
As I said a year ago on this site, and as Steve Jobs said this week, we are now living in the Post-PC world. Oh sure, tons of PCs still sell, but they are no more the industry and consumer focus than are mainframes (which also continue to sell). The reason so many people online do not get the iPad is because they are used to thinking in the PC era, and they have not yet accepted and realized that we are now living in the Post-PC era, or as I call it the Tablet Era.

People love to throw spec sheets at the iPad to say why it is inadequate, as if that has anything to do with anything in the Post-PC era. That is PC era thinking. It no longer applies. Think about buying a car. In the early days you had to be an enthusiast to know anything about cars, and a good mechanic too. That's not true today. Hardly anyone goes into a dealership and decides based upon ignition timing specs compared to the competition. No, people go to the dealership and decide based on features, and how the car performs, and how it looks, the reputation of the manufacturer, and the price, and based on what they are used to. The mechanics of the world might still look at specs, but the vast majority of car buyers do not know and do not need to know what is under the hood.

Tablet buyers today want to know how it performs, what features it has, how it looks, the reputation of the manufacturer and the price. Not on spec sheets. The iPad performs well, has the features people enjoy, looks fantastic, comes from the manufacturer with the best reputation for quality, is priced cheaper than or equal to anyone else, and comes from the company that makes that great music player and phone.

Geeks will continue to rant and rail about how the iPad doesn't perform well when they browse, doesn't have the feature THEY want, that Apple is Teh Evil, and is grossly and greedily overpriced. The other 95% of humanity won't have a clue what they are talking about, and will continue to buy iPads in record numbers.

Nobody cares what's under the hood of today's handheld devices. They just want it to work. The iPad does that very, very well. And we see how the market responds in today's Post-PC era.

Apple gets it. How long will it take for the geeks to realize that spec sheets no longer matter?

Spec sheets only matter to 1.) computer networks (businesses), and other specialized computer gadgets (like arcade system boards).

But yeah, as far as consumers are concerned, specs don't (and shouldn't) matter anymore. Like I said, specs should only matter when doing something specialized like what I said above.
 
I'm sure it's been said, but it's worth repeating: geeks hate Apple because Apple has chosen a closed architecture for their devices. Geeks can't "build their own", they can't switch out motherboards and hard drives, they can't tinker. So what has proven to be wonderfully easy for all of us in that "everything just works" frustrates the hell out of geeks because they can't show off their wizardry.

Also, having a company full of Apple computers and devices puts half the tech department out of work, so geeks hate Apple because they become somewhat redundant in an Apple world.

Utter bull poo.

If I want to make my system run games better by fitting a new graphics card, as a new model has come out, or prices have dropped, then it's great that I can do so, and bring my system back up to speed again without scrapping the whole machine and buying a new system.

It's got nothing to do with "showing off my wizardry"

It would be like unhooking a 2 berth caravan from your truck and hooking up a 4 berth model, whereas the Apple caravan was welded the the back of your truck and you could not do anything, other than sell the whole truck and buy the 4 berth model brand new.
 
Some of you are very confused by the term 'Post PC'.

Hint - Stop reading the term in a strictly literal sense.

Here, read this....cause I'm a giver.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/03/04/understanding-post-pc/

If you look closely, you see the vision and blueprint Apple has been following for the last three years. Job's put it out there for all to see. Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks for posting that.

The thing about new eras is that they to be disruptive in a way that people do not see coming. Just look at the reaction to the original iPad announcement to see that level of blindness about what was about to occur.

Quoting the number of PCs still being sold is beside the point. There will ALWAYS be PCs with us, just as there are still mainframes. They will continue to be sold. But the PC era has already ended.
 
As ol' Stevie himself said, its not about the hardware, its the software. Or, more specifically, the iTunes store. The iTunes store offers software, TV, movies and music, all in one place, with ease of updates to software and a fairly secure environment (e.g., few malware issues, like those that just hit the Android Marketplace).

Like most things in life, its a tradeoff. While geeks may decry the lack of openness and customization allowed by Apple (or as app store developers consider them, the Fourth Reich), they have to decide if jailbreaking a decent spec'ed tablet is sufficient in light of the great benefits the iTunes store offers.
 
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