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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
8,539
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SoCal
Settings-camera-format
that's where I turn it on, but, it defaults back to not being used every time the app starts ... there's an icon in the viewfinder where ProRaw is crossed out, it's a toggle to turn on/off
I do have "camera capture" set to high efficiency vs most compatible - does that change anything

edit: nvm, it does stay at the last choice, I tried this when it was first available and could swear it didn't work that way back then, but, maybe I was wrong all along ...
 

DaveXX

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 17, 2020
213
173
If that's how to check then no, it's not true. I'm looking at a macro shot from 2022 that shows as 12MP, 4032x3024, ultrawide camera 13mm.
Read the information
IMG_0552.jpeg

What do you read here?
 

cupcakes2000

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2010
3,486
4,498
Go to preserve settings in the settings - camera section, once you allow raw there becomes visible a preserve setting button for that.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,391
7,048
you are correct, 99+% of smartphone users don't care about "optical zoom", they actually now have a camera which before they never did, that's good for them and as long as the smartphone is you main consumable device for those photos/videos, that's even better.
for the "photo purists" trying to "educate", well that is like Don Quixote, not worth it, with all the new and technology advancements, it's an endless endeavor ... we've all accepted that we do not search on the web but "google" ...
:) Well said!
 

randomando

macrumors member
Nov 12, 2021
33
71
it has nothing to do with expert.
What you say is "it was at the ip10 like that, it was at the ip11 like that, it was at the ip12 like that and 13 and 14 but lets wait and see... maybe at the 15 it is magically different that shots between optical focal lengths are different... Because there is a new magic zoom which can zoom to 100mm without loosing quality... apple invited the first fixed variable prime lens in history....
And if you believe just in your eyes do it yourself. Make a picture with 76mm on the IP Pro Max and look at that with your own eyes... the test is very simple.
I plan on waiting on reviewers to do just that. And maybe in a week or so this site will post an article comparing different camera configurations.

It gets really boring to hear people claim something questionable that amounts to “this large company with knowledge experts somehow screwed themselves over and now I, a random person on the internet, am spreading the truth”. A week later and more details come to light and that random person can just go back into hiding as if nothing happened.
 

DaveXX

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 17, 2020
213
173
I plan on waiting on reviewers to do just that. And maybe in a week or so this site will post an article comparing different camera configurations.

It gets really boring to hear people claim something questionable that amounts to “this large company with knowledge experts somehow screwed themselves over and now I, a random person on the internet, am spreading the truth”. A week later and more details come to light and that random person can just go back into hiding as if nothing happened.
Im sure the super expert pro reviewer will bring out some magic news regarding that... they will proof that the technical data everyone can read on apples page is wrong.... the 120mm prime lens like described on the technical data page of the official apple page is in truth the optical magic zoom lens (apple don't write that just to surprise the reviewer later).
Again we are not talking about sth which was before different. It was with the IP14ProMax like that and with the IP13PM and with every other iPhone. But wait for your expert YouTube Reviewers if this makes you happy ;-)

Even a billion dollar company can't make a prime lens wich is a variable optical zoom lens. But a billion dollar company COULD have implemented a true real optical zoom lens like Sony did... and like the rumours stated... but unfortunately the billion dollar company didn't do that. And they made this already official.
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
8,539
21,850
SoCal
It sounds more like all smartphone user are stupid and they make just photos from their lunch for Facebook.
I don’t believe that.
there is an estimated 6+ Billion smartphones out there, I said 99%, so that leaves 60 Million who care about photography terms, maybe it is 98%, maybe 97% ... it is the VAST majority of smartphone users for sure.

and I for one didn't use the term "stupid", those people now have a camera they never had before and are enjoying it.

Having said all of that, fact remains that with the exception of that Sony phone no other smartphone offers "optical zoom".
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 65816
Jun 18, 2020
1,159
1,232
And, right there, you’ve lost most people as they turn away, snap a picture using the 5x button and walk away happy having captured a picture they consider as “zoom” with a camera someone just told them doesn’t have zoom! :)
Right exactly, this is all more than a little pedantic. From the perspective of casual photographers and end users, the phone has a “make far away stuff bigger without distortions” feature. And the sorts of people who actually care about the distinction probably already have a camera with optical zoom (and probably greater than 5x, I’d reckon).

Additionally, Apple’s been trying to remove moving parts from their products since moving parts are a common point of failure. Most of the buttons aren’t real buttons anymore, for instance. An actual optical zoom mode requires a lot of miniaturized motors and a thicker camera assembly. Sony can afford to put out relatively niche phones, such as ones with actual optical zoom, since any given Android phone doesn’t have to be everything to everyone the way the iPhone does (and this is even true to some extent of the Pro and Pro Max), plus it’s a competitive advantage of Sony’s phones in a crowded Android marketplace (though it doesn’t seem to be enough of one for them to make any real headway against Samsung or Google, let alone the tide of Chinese midrange, flagship lite, and flagship phones eating every Android OEM’s lunch, alas).
 

cupcakes2000

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2010
3,486
4,498
true real optical zoom lens
A lot of photographers will tell you the only ‘true real’ lenses are prime lenses. Zoom lenses are a solution to a problem, and are in no way better than a prime equivalent. Even the very good ones (I have a rather excellent 70-200, but it’s not a patch on my 135, 100 macro, my 85 or my 50). On a smartphone I’d would wager that’s a thousand fold.
 

randomando

macrumors member
Nov 12, 2021
33
71
Im sure the super expert pro reviewer will bring out some magic news regarding that... they will proof that the technical data everyone can read on apples page is wrong.... the 120mm prime lens like described on the technical data page of the official apple page is in truth the optical magic zoom lens (apple don't write that just to surprise the reviewer later).
Again we are not talking about sth which was before different. It was with the IP14ProMax like that and with the IP13PM and with every other iPhone. But wait for your expert YouTube Reviewers if this makes you happy ;-)

Even a billion dollar company can't make a prime lens wich is a variable optical zoom lens. But a billion dollar company COULD have implemented a true real optical zoom lens like Sony did... and like the rumours stated... but unfortunately the billion dollar company didn't do that. And they made this already official.
Wouldn’t be the first time people have misread misinterpreted or miswrote technical information. I understand you want people to get out pitchforks and stuff. If you’re correct then I’m sure some site will cover how a billion dollar company managed to blow it or maybe nobody would care because it still looks like the overall picture quality improved. Technical data doesn’t always show the full picture 😉 especially when it’s provided by Apple.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors G5
May 16, 2015
14,794
9,606
Apple sells an over-complex, often compromised set of camera features packaged in marketing glitter-throwing B.S. to a cherry-picked set of low-hanging-fruit influencers and you're blaming the media for Apple's excesses? On the contrary: The miasma of confusion about how everything really works is by design. Apple, like any company, is not interested in selling specs, they're interested in selling aspirational targets.

The detailed cost/benefit rundown of the iPhone 15 lineup cameras will come, but that takes hardware in-hand bought independently (not provided early with strict talking points from Apple) and put through a time consuming set of tests and presentations. There are plenty of influencers and review sites that stick to this kind of rundown, but none of that is available now for the low-impulse-control crowd that orders iPhones on announcement day like it's some kind of race.

Literally any review or rundown that comes out this week can be completely discarded. None of it is critical or reflective of anything more than Apple's marketing because there's no time to do anything but lean on what Apple provides. The reviews that come out in a month are the ones to pay attention to.

As with any generation, there will be amazing strengths and eye-rolling weaknesses/tradeoffs to the cameras of the iPhone 15 lineup. Don't expect Apple to ever, in any way, through any channel, accept any awareness of those weaknesses.
The moment I saw someone with iPhone 12 Pro Max taking a photo of a light fitting under mid-low light condition, I knew iPhone camera Apple shown in advertisement were 100% scam and no truth. From that point on, I completely lost faith on smartphone camera because they cannot and will never be able to compete dedicated DSLR In terms of versatility and quality on photos.

And for launch day review, of course all of them can be discarded because they are forced to recycle Apple’s talking point no matter what. Apple then will walk away with big checks and scam camera marketing rinse and repeat the next year, while fanboies line up on preorder open day to buy their latest iPhone and hope it can be shipped on launch day like some sort of race I don’t understand.
To understand it better a real word example.
Crop of an image 77mm iPhone 13 Pro Max:
View attachment 2267248
Crop of an image 76mm iPhone 13 Pro Max:
View attachment 2267249

The same will happen if you make a photo with an iPhone 15 ProMax and 100mm. And here is why:
View attachment 2267273
You see in the information 76mm but the lens was a 26mm f1.5.
But on the shot with 77mm you can see this:
View attachment 2267276

You can do the test on your own phone. Just go below a prime focal length (long pressing x3) and change it e.g. to x2.9
To me photo itself doesn’t strike too much of visual differences. But Im not a photographer and I have terrible eyes so who knows. What I am afraid of is Apple will hide detail information of photos taken by iPhone in later version of macOS and iOS just like they take away battery remaining hours info from system tray.
Wait so essentially you're saying that iphones cameras are a big scam?
Camera itself is not, but camera marketing done by Apple is 100% scam and no truth.
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
I appreciate the technical details and this discussion, but most people don't really care how the sausage is made. The bottom line is: Do the pictures on the 15 look better or not? If they look better, most people don't care if Apple used Old Bay seasoning to make them better or something else.

Seems to me the issue is less a concern of “how the sausage is made” and more like Apple is taking a Beyond Meat sausage and passing it off as being the same as regular sausage meat.

I think most iPhone camera users are going to know something is off, but won’t know what it is because they don’t understand photography.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,391
7,048
It sounds more like all smartphone user are stupid and they make just photos from their lunch for Facebook.
I don’t believe that.
No, there’s a LOT of them that know better, but they know better because they DESIRED to know better and educated themselves. Those that don’t know, don’t want to know, because maybe they get lots of compliments on their pictures from friends and family, but wouldn’t be able to tell anyone what an fstop was even with cash on the line.

When someone runs up against the limitations of the algorithms, they’ll seek out the information that helps them take their photography to the next level. And, I think we’d all agree, that information would best be found in a forum where context and examples can be found where others that have raised their craft congregate and communicate. Not in 12 words added to a media report.

It feels like trying to explain the finer details of the Comic Book Marvel Universe to someone that just wants to watch a fun movie. :)
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,391
7,048
An actual optical zoom mode requires a lot of miniaturized motors and a thicker camera assembly. Sony can afford to put out relatively niche phones, such as ones with actual optical zoom, since any given Android phone doesn’t have to be everything to everyone the way the iPhone does (and this is even true to some extent of the Pro and Pro Max), plus it’s a competitive advantage of Sony’s phones in a crowded Android marketplace (though it doesn’t seem to be enough of one for them to make any real headway against Samsung or Google, let alone the tide of Chinese midrange, flagship lite, and flagship phones eating every Android OEM’s lunch, alas).
Most importantly, as Apple will likely sell over 200 million phones and even if only 25% are iPhone 15 Pro Max’s, that’s 50 million devices that have to have parts delivered and assembled and work with a high rate of success (because of the number that have to be produced and ready to be packaged per day). From the information I just checked, Sony haven’t sold over 10 million since 2017. I would imagine that there’s far more technology suppliers that can reliably ship 3 million parts than 50 million parts.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,391
7,048
Seems to me the issue is less a concern of “how the sausage is made” and more like Apple is taking a Beyond Meat sausage and passing it off as being the same as regular sausage meat.

I think most iPhone camera users are going to know something is off, but won’t know what it is because they don’t understand photography.
No there’s lots of actual real differences there. Whether it’s a cheap, expensive, or smartphone camera, they’re all dealing with the same light in different ways. The analogy would be more like Apple selling Jimmy Dean while someone is trying to explain how it’s “not real sausage” and that local organic is would be SO much better to someone that regularly consumes and enjoys Great Value sausages. :)
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68000
Dec 3, 2016
1,819
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USA
Nearly all pages including MacRumors spreading false information about iPhone 15 Cameras.
You can read nearly everywhere about a 3x or 5x optical zoom.
The Iphone 15 Pro Max has 3 fixed prime lenses and no optical zoom.
- 13mm fixed prime lens with 12MP
- 24mm fixed prime lens with 48MP
- 120mm fixed prime lens with 12mp.
The iPhone 15 Pro has a 77mm fixed prime telephoto lens with 12MP instead of the 120mm.

This means for macro the phone take a 13mm shot and crop the picture (including digital processing). So a macro shot has NOT 12MP it is a upscaled 3MP image and using 1/4 of the sensor surface.
100mm with 15PM is a digital zoom which has just 3MP with 1/16th of the sensor surface (means less light and lower resolution)! The iPhone 15 Pro will use a digital zoom of 1.3 from a 77mm 12MP shot and use 62% of the sensor surface and around 7.5MP.
So for focal lengths in this area the 15 Pro outperforms the 15 Pro Max by a lot.
That is the reason why an optical zoom or a prime focal length with digital zoom makes a huge difference. If the IP 15PM would have a 5x optical zoom between 24mm and 120mm would mean sth completely different. You would have at any focal length nearly the same sensor surface and the same resolution….

Any information about 5x optical zoom is misleading and wrong. Even on the technical data page Apple stated “48mm through quadpixel sensor” which means nothing else than digital crop. With 24mm pixel-binning is used so it just have half of the resolution (24MP) but the full sensor surface.
Apple is trying to confuse ppl by saying “you can optical zoom in and out of 24mm”. But the optical focal lenghts are just 13mm, 24mm and 120/77mm.

I think it is very important to make this clear especially if you see how many ppl are buying an iPhone 15 Pro Max because of the camera (its better isn’t it?). If you use very often focal lengths around 80-100mm this would be a huge disappointment.
Just prerelease babbling. Stop meaninglessly nit-picking specs and test real iPhone camera systems in a week. What matters is, can we improve our image captures using the new camera systems?

I emphasize systems because iPhone cameras are not ILC they are a fixed system of computing, sensor, lenses, UI, etc. How all the parts real-world interact to facilitate image capture is all that matters.

Each newer camera system since the 4 or so has unequivocally improved real-world image capture over the previous model. I am quite certain that the 15 Pro Max will continue that trend.
 
Last edited:

droidgod

macrumors member
May 19, 2015
42
44
to be brutally honest, most people don't care that its not real zoom. It is zoomed in and it is not digital zoom, so its for all intents and purposes optical zoom.

I get that the intermediate levels are still digitally cropped, But most people do not understand what focal length of a camera is and what the difference between 120 mm versus 77 mm is.

So, the nerds can nerd out about the specifics but noones going to successfully explain to my grandma any of this is.
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68000
Dec 3, 2016
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Every year reading the specs is more than enough to know how the cameras will be.
That is just flat wrong. The published specs do not describe the quality of the optics, the interaction of the computing, the UI, etc.: how well it all works in real world usage capturing images. And real world usage capturing images is really all that matters.
 
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sstiwari

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2017
83
76
Just prerelease babbling. Stop meaninglessly nit-picking specs and test real iPhone camera systems in a week. What matters is, can we improve our image captures using the new camera systems?

I emphasize systems because iPhone cameras are not ILC they are a fixed system of computing, sensor, lenses, UI, etc. How all the parts real-world interact to facilitate image capture is all that matters.

Each newer camera system since the 4 or so has unequivocally improved real-world image capture over the previous model. I am quite certain that the 15 Pro Max will continue that trend.
And what if it doesn't?
 
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