iPhone 11 Pro Why so much vitriol?

[Juicy Box]

How is form factor a major change?

In the past a change in form factor has indicated a new generation of device. Sometimes this includes significant internal changes, but sometimes not.

Would you consider the iPhone 6 a major change from the iPhone 5s?

I think most people would, but the performance differences between the two models are very small, and could barely qualify as a spec bump. It was the form factor change that differentiate the two generations, not the internals.

Seems cosmetic to me and nowadays what much more can be done with external design?

Maybe, but that isn't really the point.

The point is that there was a change in typical cycle at which Apple released their products. Many fans of the iPhone that would get excited at the release of the new iPhone looked forward to this cycle of redesign, refresh, redesign, refresh, and so on.

This release cycle was most likely disrupted at the iPhone 7 launch by keeping a very similar design of the 6s, although I think an argument could be made that the cycle was first disrupted with the iPhone 6s.

When the cycle changed, the attitude and mood right before and after the iPhone events changed as well.

Ok, I'll grant maybe shrinking or getting rid of bezels so you can have more screen in a smaller device but people seem fixated on the look and shape of the phone

Whether or not the form factor can be changed isn't really the point of my post, as I was just illustrating to why I think there has been a change in the attitude and mood of consumers around the launch of a new iPhone.

But, I will add that there is always physical changes that could be done to improve the form factor, and not just cosmetic ones, but functional ones too.

Although cosmetic improvements do have their place. Jony Ive was once quoted saying that he wanted a iPhone design that appeared as a single sheet of glass.

Apple hasn't gotten there yet.

 

[Azathoth123]

I personally feel like Apple is lagging far behind Android on many fronts. A lot of people are frustrated seeing how much more you get per dollar with Android. My $250 budget Android has face id, expandable storage and fast charging in the box. iOS still doesn't have always on display. No expandable storage, and they completely screw you over by trying to force you into buying more storage than you need. Apple isn't influenced by Android (Android phones pretty much copy Apple blatantly at times), but a fast charging brick in the box of a $1300 phone shouldn't be extra, it should be part of the deal.

Apple is #1 by FAR in terms of security, customer service, longevity of the device, and simplicity. Even the top tier Android phone only gets 2-3 years of official support, which is really bad. Android resale value is also hilariously bad.

I think at the end of the day people get frustrated when you see all this technology for years available on budget Android phones, then apple slowly releases it but charges more for it, all while patting themselves on the back

Interesting post with many good points. However, I think many of the cited issues can easily be explained by the business models, for example:

Apple rarely releases features/tech advances before the technology is mature. They’re not a ‘first out of the gate’ company and never have been except for the original iPhone. OK, iPod.

Their support far exceeds their competitors, warts though it has. Show me a brick and mortar Android store (Brand) in which you can do business, at least in the US.

Android as it’s currently formulated, mostly on the back of Google services/Play Store, etc has a long term business model problem. Google is an advertising company, and they’re also a public company which means that they have a legal responsibility to their shareholders.

Once you have enough data to build an advertising profile of every person on earth, why would you invest in hardware if it doesn’t add to that existing profile? Short answer, you wouldn’t - if you’re an advertising company. In this respect, the Android fanboys are right - phones are fast enough - to build an advertising profile. If you’re a hardware company (Apple) that depends on delivering advanced features enabled by increasing powerful hardware, that business model doesn’t work. It also means that in time, Apple’s hardware will eclipse the Android platform because advertising is not Apple’s core business and isn’t part of the stockholder expectations.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Interesting post with many good points. However, I think many of the cited issues can easily be explained by the business models, for example:

Apple rarely releases features/tech advances before the technology is mature. They’re not a ‘first out of the gate’ company and never have been except for the original iPhone. OK, iPod.

Their support far exceeds their competitors, warts though it has. Show me a brick and mortar Android store (Brand) in which you can do business, at least in the US.

Android as it’s currently formulated, mostly on the back of Google services/Play Store, etc has a long term business model problem. Google is an advertising company, and they’re also a public company which means that they have a legal responsibility to their shareholders.

Once you have enough data to build an advertising profile of every person on earth, why would you invest in hardware if it doesn’t add to that existing profile? Short answer, you wouldn’t - if you’re an advertising company. In this respect, the Android fanboys are right - phones are fast enough - to build an advertising profile. If you’re a hardware company (Apple) that depends on delivering advanced features enabled by increasing powerful hardware, that business model doesn’t work. It also means that in time, Apple’s hardware will eclipse the Android platform because advertising is not Apple’s core business and isn’t part of the stockholder expectations.

My biggest issues are how apple bends the consumer over on storage (and to a lesser extent, ram) and how they don't include a fast charger for a phone, yet still tout the fact it's fast charge capable. Just add $50 to the price of the phone and include the brick in the box if they are that greedy. The best phone per dollar would be a OnePlus phone that could run iOS. I left Android for Apple, so I'm not just here to praise Android. Fast charging is pretty much mandatory these days, especially considering how small nearly every iPhone battery is that isn't a plus, max or Xr. Android has charging solutions are so far ahead of Apple it's just sad. My OnePlus 3 from over 3 years ago has a superior charging solution (dash charge) than the top of the line 2019 iPhone max pro. This isn't apple "perfecting" things, it's them not being bothered enough to do it. Apple basically has a stranglehold on their fanbase, and they aren't being pushed to do much more than the minimum.

 

[Azathoth123]

My biggest issues are how apple bends the consumer over on storage (and to a lesser extent, ram) and how they don't include a fast charger for a phone, yet still tout the fact it's fast charge capable. Just add $50 to the price of the phone and include the brick in the box if they are that greedy. The best phone per dollar would be a OnePlus phone that could run iOS. I left Android for Apple, so I'm not just here to praise Android. Fast charging is pretty much mandatory these days, especially considering how small nearly every iPhone battery is that isn't a plus, max or Xr. Android has charging solutions are so far ahead of Apple it's just sad. My OnePlus 3 from over 3 years ago has a superior charging solution (dash charge) than the top of the line 2019 iPhone max pro. This isn't apple "perfecting" things, it's them not being bothered enough to do it. Apple basically has a stranglehold on their fanbase, and they aren't being pushed to do much more than the minimum.

The current Pro models do include fast charging IIRC, and I’m not sure that $ are the reason that they stayed with the 5W charger, slower charging with lower temperatures seem to have some advantages WRT to battery life, though I readily admit that I have no citable support here! I agree that fast charging is a must these days, even at the expense of battery life. And Apple batteries are getting bigger! XR, 11 Pro - the Apple engineers are saying, look, if we do fast charge, we’re going to have to have bigger batteries to maintain the same longevity, otherwise the MR forum are going to be whining!

Good RAM has always been expensive, build a PC and you can get no-name RAM for peanuts, or you can get Crucial, Kingston Hyper-X, etc for a premium. I’ve had no-name memory fail in PCs before, though only once, but in this case I agree with Apple based on past experience, use the very best RAM you can get, and yes that’s expensive but Apple products are a high-end product. RAM is the wrong place to skimp.

 

[jmgregory1]

I think form factor is more of a cosmetic preference. Some like iPhones, some Samsung. I personally like iPhones better, as I don’t like the sloped edges on the Samsung, but I do like their full screen adoption of the design top to bottom with the camera cutout.

But for me my phone is always in a case, so I can style it however I want, so I’m the end if I’m ok with the screen format, I don’t care about the design as much. That said I don’t want to spend a grand on a butt-ugly phone, and to me the iPhone is still good looking.

I tried Samsung's original waterfall edge phone and the thing that I immediately couldn't stand was how the curved edge caused a reflection on the face of the screen, just in from the edge, both in direct sunlight and when there was any kind of overhead interior lighting. It only went away when it was in a dark surrounding. I realized then, they added the "feature" because they could, not because it was a good idea or something that benefited the consumer.

Like others, I would love to have an iPhone that has no bezel and no notch (and while I'm asking for things, how about making it thinner, having 48 hour battery life and be completely wireless), but I'm never using my iPhone X thinking I can't stand the bezel or really even notice the notch in everyday use talking on the phone, emailing, texting, surfing the web, Skype, Twitter, etc. These "issues" people have are simply non-issues for me.

 

[JPack]

The current Pro models do include fast charging IIRC, and I’m not sure that $ are the reason that they stayed with the 5W charger, slower charging with lower temperatures seem to have some advantages WRT to battery life, though I readily admit that I have no citable support here! I agree that fast charging is a must these days, even at the expense of battery life. And Apple batteries are getting bigger! XR, 11 Pro - the Apple engineers are saying, look, if we do fast charge, we’re going to have to have bigger batteries to maintain the same longevity, otherwise the MR forum are going to be whining!

Good RAM has always been expensive, build a PC and you can get no-name RAM for peanuts, or you can get Crucial, Kingston Hyper-X, etc for a premium. I’ve had no-name memory fail in PCs before, though only once, but in this case I agree with Apple based on past experience, use the very best RAM you can get, and yes that’s expensive but Apple products are a high-end product. RAM is the wrong place to skimp.

Fast charging is temperature dependent, just like processors. Including a 5W charger is 100% because of cost.

Apple isn't using some magical RAM. They use the same parts from SK Hynix and Micron that everyone else uses.

 

[Azathoth123]

Fast charging is temperature dependent, just like processors. Including a 5W charger is 100% because of cost.

Apple isn't using some magical RAM. They use the same parts from SK Hynix and Micron that everyone else uses.

So you’re saying all Hynix and Micron memory is all the same out of the die?

Agree, but good RAM costs more than ‘ungraded’ or untested RAM. Good RAM is pricey compared to RAM of undefinable quality. RAM has always, IME been about grading the finished product, not the design specs. That costs money.

I’m open to being wrong, correct me please!

 

[JPack]

So you’re saying all Hynix and Micron memory is all the same out of the die?

Agree, but good RAM costs more than ‘ungraded’ or untested RAM. Good RAM is pricey compared to RAM of undefinable quality. RAM has always, IME been about grading the finished product, not the design specs. That costs money.

I’m open to being wrong, correct me please!

What I'm saying is, Apple is using similar parts compared to other manufacturers like Huawei. Apple isn't using a specially graded memory product. They're using off-the-shelf parts, just like any other manufacturer.

Example:

iPhone XS uses 4GB of Micron MT53D series LPDDR4 memory. You can buy the exact module for $50.

Huawei Mate 20 X 5G uses 8GB of Micron MT53D series LPDDR4 memory. You can buy the module for $100.​

Apple isn't charging more for higher quality of RAM. They're charging more for the same parts.

 

[Azathoth123]

What I'm saying is, Apple is using similar parts compared to other manufacturers like Huawei. Apple isn't using a specially graded memory product..

Do you know that they’re not testing/grading it themselves? For example other characteristics specific to the product that it used in, like thermal range/tolerance in the iPhone? My point is that there may be other Apple-specific factors than Micron etc lists on their published data because it may not matter unless a specific application needs different performance. I’m assuming that memory makers don’t list specific needs of specific customers in public info.

 

[JPack]

Do you know that they’re not testing/grading it themselves? For example other characteristics specific to the product that it used in, like thermal range/tolerance in the iPhone? My point is that there may be other Apple-specific factors than Micron etc lists on their published data because it may not matter unless a specific application needs different performance. I’m assuming that memory makers don’t list specific needs of specific customers in public info.

If it's "Apple specific" then why is the exact Micron memory part used in iPhone XS available for retail sale?

Anything is "possible" but there's no evidence for what you're suggesting.

 

[Azathoth123]

If it's "Apple specific" then why is the exact Micron memory part used in iPhone XS available for retail sale?

Anything is "possible" but there's no evidence for what you're suggesting.

It’s fairly common for folks to high grade commercial parts or test them via batch QA/QC. Admittedly no evidence for it, but no evidence against it either.

Just a thought.

 

[whitedragon101]

Parts of a phone
iPhone Pro
Screen = new oled with , improved colour, brightness, contrast and power consumption
Battery = new larger for more battery life
RAM = upgrade to 6GB
WI-FI Modem = upgraded to Wi-Fi 6 (ax)
Cellular modem = upgraded to new model with faster LTE
Speakers = new speakers with surround sound function
Camera = better F numbers, better focus, night mode, colour/ contrast matching between the cameras, better HDR and adding an extra physical widescreen camera
Body = more durable
Extras = wideband sensors for new as yet undisclosed phone locating features (probably Apple tile)


They changed basically everything, yet there seem to be so many comments and media articles saying how disappointing it is. They changed basically everything yet people say oh it looks the same or oh no USB c yet. There also seems to be a repeating technique of selecting an army of android phones each with a stand out feature and using that as the basis for comparison. As if those features were all found in some mythical perfect Frankenstein android phone. It feels like people just like slamming Apple and it gets clicks.

 

[Juicy Box]

Screen

Battery

RAM

WI-FI Modem

Cellular modem

Camera

Body

They changed basically everything, yet there seem to be so many comments and media articles saying how disappointing it is.

Most of the things listed is usually what is upgraded when a new iPhone comes out. These things are expected.

I think that is why some people are disappointed.

 

[Painter2002]

Most of the things listed is usually what is upgraded when a new iPhone comes out. These things are expected.

I think that is why some people are disappointed.

In other words this was a spec bump, which is exactly what most that have been keeping on the rumors were expecting, so it’s really not that disappointing.

Honestly even basic stuff like pass through wireless charging and that sort of stuff is overrated unless you travel a lot, and I guarantee people would still be complaining even if they got all those requested “features”. Stuff like removal of the notch and that sort of design change would be nice, but again, not really an earth shattering change.

After further reading, I will say I’m pleased to hear about the battery boost, that’s one of my only gripes on iPhones, and I am glad Apple is starting to listen and address this.

 

[whitedragon101]

Most of the things listed is usually what is upgraded when a new iPhone comes out. These things are expected.

I think that is why some people are disappointed.

If you improve every aspect of a phone adding features and not to mention an additional camera and people aren’t happy. Then I think the issue is that people are expecting too much. Only seems to be judged this way for iPhone.

Google made a meh phone with a reasonable (but single) camera boosted by good image processing and the media swoon over it. Apple nails almost every aspect of the phone and includes three high quality focal length cameras and people say “is that it ?”

 

[1144557]

The form factor doesnt change every year or 2 with Apple, not in a long long time when iphones were really evolving

The 6, 6S and 7 were basically the same form factor in regular and plus sizes. The 8 was nearly the same with a glass back for wireless charge. So really 4 years.

The X is the updated form factor and we're only on year 3 (really 2.5 as the X was sort of a sneak peak into the form factor) of that this year. There is nothing to say it is substantially changing next year. My guess would be more square sides like the iPad is all and the notch will start to shrink year by year.


There is nothing wrong with an all over spec bump. Just because other manufacturers are all over the map redesigning their phone every year for the oooo new shiney doesnt make it a better strategy at all. When you have a $350-400 phone with a $50 profit margin you have to sell a CRAPton to make money; and at the high end they arent selling enough to stay in business alone (like the Galaxies which arent huge volume sellers) So keeping the most people interested is kind of the game n that market with new shiny every year.

That's why I find it funny when people get on the units shipped charts. As if it matters a company selling $200-500USD average range phones shipping a few million more units is really MAKING more money overall. Marketshare means diddly at the end of the day really to investors; and even less to end users.

The XR was the top-selling phone model globally; that is drop mic basically all that needs to be said there.

 

[0989382]

It sounds to me like you’re labelling everybody who has criticisms of Apple with intentional insults in your post. I use Apples products and enjoy the overall experience, but I will criticise price hikes and sometimes the lack of feature introduction where I feel it is warranted. I’m not some sad guy who has been declined by society and live in my bedroom.

This is a discussion forum where consumers like ourselves come to discuss our experiences both positive and negative. Some of us have been Apple customers for years and not everything is fluffy and lovely all of the time. It’s sad you’ve been here such a short time and already have this opinion of other members to be honest.

MR Forums is well known for it's anti-apple contents..
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I think that is why some people are disappointed.

These idiots are disappointed by their own expectations, not Apple.