iPhone 11 Pro Why so much vitriol?

roxysdad

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May 19, 2005
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I come to the forums usually once a year at this time to read the discussions and get an idea of what is going on in the cell phone world before I make my yearly pilgrimage to the Apple store to trade my money for their newest offering.

This year I’m a little blown away by the negativity expressed on MR. I’m growing old, aren’t we all, but I sure miss the days of excitement and whatnot surrounding the new lineup. This year is nothing terribly new with Apple and their devices - The same thing has happened over the years, incremental updates with some years better than others. Yet I sense a trend online with way too much cynical bomb chucking at each other. It’s too bad. It seems to happen all over the place as we try to out gripe and out complain each other.

I’m always impressed at Apple’s ability to make this many devices, with incredible precision, delivery times, stellar customer support, all with such tightly integrated hardware/software. This kind of product, produced at this level of sophistication is nothing short of amazing.

Anyway, from one fan to the next, I wish you all a fun fall season. Enjoy the phone you have With anticipation for 2020, or upgrade to the new one if you want, enjoy the process. It’s a great time to be alive, and we are all incredibly blessed beyond measure. While not life changing technology, I like the new offerings. The new cameras are a great feature, as are the improvements in battery life, screen brightness, and Face ID speed/length/angle. These will solve my biggest wishes with the current X/XS platform.

All the best,

Roxysdad
 

d4rkc4sm

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2011
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The curry comment was the highlight for me. Otherwise another drab keynote, and more drab forum comments.
 

JPack

macrumors 601
Mar 27, 2017
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upload_2019-9-10_23-50-51.png

Apple stood up on stage to tell people that a bigger battery and 18W charger, which has been standard on many other devices, is a Pro feature.

Mark Gurman probably said it best:

"Nothing shown today really qualifies as meeting high “innovation only” expectations: Apple delivered the smallest Watch update ever, an iPad with a slightly bigger screen and nothing more, and iPhones with cameras equal to or less than many other devices. Apple needs a big 2020."

https://twitter.com/markgurman/status/1171629626193371136

 

BluefinTuna

macrumors member
Feb 10, 2019
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iPhone 11 "Pro" Disappointments:
  • Same design with same sized notch
  • Refresh rate has not improved
  • No USB C on the iPhone end
  • No 5G (even from Intel)
  • No Qualcomm modem (LTE)
  • No reverse charging
  • No improved repairability
  • Added a camera tumor
  • Added even more weight
  • "Pro" pricing is still obnoxious
 

The Game 161

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Dec 15, 2010
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View attachment 857245

Apple stood up on stage to tell people that a bigger battery and 18W charger, which has been standard on many other devices, is a Pro feature.

Mark Gurman probably said it best:

"Nothing shown today really qualifies as meeting high “innovation only” expectations: Apple delivered the smallest Watch update ever, an iPad with a slightly bigger screen and nothing more, and iPhones with cameras equal to or less than many other devices. Apple needs a big 2020."

https://twitter.com/markgurman/status/1171629626193371136

No they never said adding 18w is a pro feature

Pro is the camera
 
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UnLiMiTeD558

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Dec 20, 2009
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iPhone 11 "Pro" Disappointments:
  • Same design with same sized notch
  • Refresh rate has not improved
  • No USB C on the iPhone end
  • No 5G (even from Intel)
  • No Qualcomm modem (LTE)
  • No reverse charging
  • No improved repairability
  • Added a camera tumor
  • Added even more weight
  • "Pro" pricing is still obnoxious
Yup, I knew well enough by now that with all the rumours out that I had a solid idea of what to expect this year on the iPhone 11 and decided to save money and get an xs max instead. After seeing the keynote, I’m glad I did, Apple knows how to market a product, but they just oversold every tiny feature and made it sound revolutionary

If you listened to the keynote as an audio only podcast, you would think they completely redesigned the whole phone and was all new from the ground up in every way. They know how to talk up everything, but in reality this isn’t much of an upgrade from last years besides an extra camera and bigger battery after taking out 3D Touch.
 

doboy

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Jul 6, 2007
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Yup, I knew well enough by now that with all the rumours out that I had a solid idea of what to expect this year on the iPhone 11 and decided to save money and get an xs max instead. After seeing the keynote, I’m glad I did, Apple knows how to market a product, but they just oversold every tiny feature and made it sound revolutionary

If you listened to the keynote as an audio only podcast, you would think they completely redesigned the whole phone and was all new from the ground up in every way. They know how to talk up everything, but in reality this isn’t much of an upgrade from last years besides an extra camera and bigger battery after taking out 3D Touch.
How else would you sell it if it was your product? You make it sound like it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Ultimately, they’re trying to sell you stuff.

OP, regarding vitriol, it’s been like this for a while now.
 
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spooky23

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Think people need to appreciate perspective more. We've come a long way with technology and let's be honest, in more ways than one, we've hit the ceiling (for now). Sure, innovation in how a phone looks and works is never impossible from one year to the next but I don't know what else to expect or want? A brand new original refresh every year? That's not logical. I know many people haven't upgraded for a while but it's astonishing how petulant some people are that demand something completely different and ground breaking when they've only owned their last iphone for a year. I guess if you want to upgrade every single year then fair enough, but man, not sure how I'd feel about it from a consumers point of view. Guess this is where that perspective fragments into a mess.

With Keynotes and tech, we've got super powerful little computers in our pocket with more cpu power than we'd ever need (at this point in time). We're ahead of the curve but the phone cosmetically doesn't have enough of them to constitute a big change (for some of us it seems).

Also, Apple have always been slow to adapt things and let's be honest, when they do, they do it pretty well. It is what it is. As much as I nod my head with approval for some of the Pixel, Samsung and Huawei phones - I still wouldn't swamp the Apple Eco System for any of them. My head has yet to be turned. Again, probably because that's the benchmark for me as most high end smart phones are pretty much separated by very little - other than your preference for OS or specific features and tech (some things matter more to some than others).

Every year, it's the same old reaction. Either my expectations have levelled out or the world is a different place to the Steve Jobs era.

It's the latter.
 

Ralfi

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Was the range of Face ID another stated improvement?

If so, that’s pretty significant.

But I’ve just realised that I haven’t heard of Landscape Face unlock?? I’m about to watch the iPhone portion of the keynote....hoping for a surprise in this area.
 
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Dented

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Can’t say I’ve seen all that much hate compared to other recent years. Look at the vitriol directed (entirely wrongly) at the XR last year, or a lot of the reaction to the original X and 8, this year isn’t as bad as all that.

As others have said I think the pricing is still a big issue for many, particularly the storage tiers on the “Pro” and the very steep ramping up on anything over a derisory 64gb. I get that the accountants rub their hands with glee at that, but it’s the third year Apple have been gouging people that way and the negative impact on general customer goodwill is cumulative.
 
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MacDevil7334

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I think for me it all comes down to the pricing strategy Apple has employed in recent years. I think we forget that it was just 4 short years ago that the top of the line iPhone started at $650. Jump ahead two years and the flagship starts at a whopping $1000. Jump ahead to this year and you have Apple giving a “by innovation only” presentation where they show off what is essentially the same phone they have made for the past 3 years. And they spend the whole time trying to convince everyone that better battery life and camera system are somehow incredible “Pro” upgrades, as if we had all forgotten that iPhones have been upgraded in this manner every year for over a decade.

Here’s the thing: I don’t necessarily object to a $1000 iPhone. It’s by far my most used computing device. But at that price, it had better be the best phone on the market. And it’s not really anymore. The chip still leads the pack. But smartphone performance has gotten so fast that any iPhone made since 2015 is fine for most tasks. In the camera department (aka this year’s big upgrade) the iPhone has fallen behind other manufacturers for several years running now, at least for stills. It remains to be seen if the 11 will change that story. But what I saw up there was Apple updating features they upgrade every year (camera, battery, etc.), taking away 3D Touch, making the phone thicker and heavier (again), charging the same high price, and going on and on about how all this is some revolutionary “Pro” upgrade. It’s kind of hard not to be negative about that. They had nothing this year and they knew it. Looked at objectively, the 11 Pro is not a bad phone. But the continued high price and that presentation really rubbed me the wrong way.
 

Oohara

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Mainly, people just love to complain.

I guess this year there are no significant design changes at all to enjoy though, so I kind of understand people coming from that. Last year at least the XR was a new iPhone model to look at.

Personally though I take into account both iOS 13 and iPad OS, which make the existing iPads and the latest generation of iPhones feel exciting enough for me. Apple's software platform as a whole is getting extremely versatile and that makes me not care so much that there aren't any revolutionary design changes happening this year.
 

OasisNYK

macrumors 6502
Nov 29, 2004
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iPhone 11 "Pro" Disappointments:
  • Same design with same sized notch - what do you expect? All phones look pretty similar now. If they could have gotten rid of the notch that would be nice but we are all essentially buying a screen now - what significant design changes would please you? I think the form factor minus some tweaks to the notch / bezels / cameras is here to stay (and it is a good design)
  • Refresh rate has not improved - what will this do for you? Is it really a necessary feature? 99% don’t care about this so it won’t be a priority
  • No USB C on the iPhone end - agree but no big deal
  • No 5G (even from Intel) - 5G isn’t ready for prime time but I can see the argument if you are keeping 3+ years since these things cost $$$
  • No Qualcomm modem (LTE) - agree but wait for the tear down, it’s not hard to put these chips in (maybe the FCC approval is the problem? But I doubt the supply chain would blink)
  • No reverse charging - would be nice but not a deal breaker
  • No improved repairability - never going to happen
  • Added a camera tumor - how much do you look at the back of your phone? And 90% use a case so I just don’t see the big deal here
  • Added even more weight - fair point but 4+ hours of battery life is significant and I would take that over thin and light any day
  • "Pro" pricing is still obnoxious - pricing in general is, even from Samsung. These are throw away devices so to keep investing in them is a waste of money. You either want to feed the addiction or you don’t
My thoughts are above - if you don’t like the phone then it’s not for you but I think there is a lot of criticism towards Apple just because of who they are versus real issues with the product.

They make great stuff.
 

MacDevil7334

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Mainly, people just love to complain.

I guess this year there are no significant design changes at all to enjoy though, so I kind of understand people coming from that. Last year at least the XR was a new iPhone model to look at.

Personally though I take into account both iOS 13 and iPad OS, which make the existing iPads and the latest generation of iPhones feel exciting enough for me. Apple's software platform as a whole is getting extremely versatile and that makes me not care so much that there aren't any revolutionary design changes happening this year.
I don’t think it’s so much that there aren’t any design changes or standout new features. It’s that Apple spent an hour trying to convince me that the upgrades they make every year were somehow super revolutionary and “Pro” this year. The phone on its own is fine, and would really have been something to talk about if they had dropped the price by $100. But spending an hour talking about not a whole lot new (and kind of insulting my intelligence with the way they did it) while also maintaining the same high $1000 price is not great.

I completely agree with you on the software side though. iOS 13 is a huge release (not surprising since it contains several features that were delayed from iOS 12). The initial releases of iOS 13 are going to be pretty buggy though (Mail is still super buggy even in the latest iOS 13.1 beta). But it will be a nice release once they iron out all the bugs. Even here though, Apple’s software reinforces some of the sentiments I expressed above. The $1000 iPhone 11 Pro is going to be released with software that is so buggy that Apple has already announced a 13.1 update will follow 10 days later. While I obviously want Apple to correct bugs, that’s not a great look for a phone that costs that much (and that’s not even accounting for the other iOS 13 features that have been pushed back to “later releases”).
 

Donnation

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Nov 2, 2014
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I personally feel like Apple has forgotten who their core audience is. They seem to be catering now to a group of people who are making feature length movies on their phones and YouTube vloggers (which is really bizarre to me). There is not one standout feature of this phone outside of the camera updates and to me that's a big disappointment.

Apple also seemed really lost during this keynote. A lot of it was filler to take up time and very little time was actually spent on the products because the products themselves just aren't very compelling.
 

vertical smile

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Sep 23, 2014
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Apple also seemed really lost during this keynote. A lot of it was filler to take up time and very little time was actually spent on the products because the products themselves just aren't very compelling.
I Agree. It seemed to really drag on too.

This was the first Apple keynote I decided to watch since the huge letdown of the terrible “hello again” event. While I thought the camera related stuff was interesting, the camera nor anything else excited me like past events.

This keynote bored me and I kept watching, waiting for something exciting, and hoping Apple had something up their sleeve that was going to blow us all away.

Of course, that didn’t happen.

It just end up being little more than a spec-bump and name-change.

I wonder if Apple really needs to do events anymore for iPhones unless it has some major changes, such as form factor.
 
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Rafterman

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Apr 23, 2010
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iPhone 11 "Pro" Disappointments:
  • Same design with same sized notch
  • Refresh rate has not improved
  • No USB C on the iPhone end
  • No 5G (even from Intel)
  • No Qualcomm modem (LTE)
  • No reverse charging
  • No improved repairability
  • Added a camera tumor
  • Added even more weight
  • "Pro" pricing is still obnoxious
I would add "no bump is storage". Samsung's S10 last year offered 1TB.
 
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vertical smile

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Apple under Jobs had an aggressive iPhone update schedule which just isn't present under Cook, and this make many iPhone fans unhappy, imo.

After the original iPhone, there was a product cycle of redesign one year and feature heavy update the next. I think this started to change beginning with the iPhone 6s, as its biggest feature turned out to be kind of a flop (3D Touch).

2nd Gen Design:

3G - Redesign
3GS - Speed! many internal upgrades with a focus on performance, along with improved camera, which becomes standard for every "s" model year

3rd Gen Design:

4 - Redesign (the most beautiful and unique design, imo)
4s - Siri and Retina Display!

4th Gen Design:
5 - Redesign
5s - Security! Touch ID was a big feature for this year

5th Gen Design:
6 - Redesign
6s - 3D Touch?! First year that the big feature wasn't really that big
7 - No Redesign! Hardly an "s" model upgrade. Minor improves that are expected, and the best upgrades are on the Plus size only, Oh, and losing some key features such as headphone jack
8 - Wireless charging, glass back! The real "s" model of the iPhone 6, just two years late. The aggregate of new features of the 6s, 7, and 8 should have been the 6s.

6th Gen Design:
X - Redesign
XS - Upgrades that one would expect, but no big feature
XR - A new model?? Kinda of new, but basically the X without OLED display
11 - The "s" of XR, without a big feature
11 Pro - basically the 3rd generation of the X, with the camera being the big feature, but something that was expected in the past.

To sum up, the iPhone redesign and "s" cycle upgrade was messed up with the iPhone 6 design and could really be seen with the iPhone 7 launch. This was around when the excitement left the forums and the new iPhone articles in the news no longer made front page.

Some of that came back with the X, but going into the third year with what is basically an upgraded iPhone X, people are disappointed, or just don't care anymore.

This year I’m a little blown away by the negativity expressed on MR.
I think it is pretty telling that you are more blown away by the reaction of the keynote than the keynote itself.
 

roxysdad

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May 19, 2005
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There have been some great responses to this little thread and I appreciate the time taken.

While I would like to defend Apple, I’d rather defend human achievement. Look at how far we have come! Just in this one little sector of tech we have large players and small, each innovating in their own way, some fast, some slow, some years massive leaps forward, some years not so much. But competition helping push the envelope the whole time. Apple is nothing more than a group of people, with successes and failures, good decisions and bad ones. I’m sure losing Johnny Ive had a huge impact, just like losing Steve Jobs many years ago. But the culture survives, and the company will continue to innovate. They can’t hit a home run with every product. And I believe the low years are what produce the good ones in the end.

I work in the hospital business. If there is one place where people expect and demand perfection, it is there. But in the end, we are just humans taking care of humans. We are going to make mistakes. We’ve been accustomed to miracles so much that when they don’t happen we blame everyone and everything.

Baseball is as much of a game of failure, perhaps more-so, than success. We love the idea of the new restaurant in town, but that comes at the expense of so many failed ones. I’d argue that the good years for apple come because of the bad years. And much like a little salt in the cookie dough, those “bad years” make the good years taste sweeter.

Apple captured lightening in a bottle with the first iPhone and that has been as much of a burden as a gift. It is impossible for them to meet all of our needs all of the time. This iPhone 11 has been in some sort of production cycle for many years now, as was the x and xs before it. Next year there will be a big leap forward, or the year after. Its all in the plan. And that plan rests on a ton of humans achieving things that haven’t even been invented yet.

Again, I love to marvel at the success of this company, and many others as well. How Tesla manages to make a great car is equally mind blowing, as is SpaceX. Some how Amazon thrives and yet Walmart continues to do battle with them, each so different from the other. And don’t get me started on energy drinks! Imagine trying to do battle against Coke/Pepsi and not only succeeding but dominating. Incredible.

Its an amazing time to be alive. We have more access to tech, food, entertainment, security, health care, you name it, than at any time in history. In the end, just like flying, I’m continually amazed at the little computer in my pocket and all the neat things it does.
 

man4857

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Dec 19, 2016
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iPhone 11 "Pro" Disappointments:
  • Same design with same sized notch
  • Refresh rate has not improved
  • No USB C on the iPhone end
  • No 5G (even from Intel)
  • No Qualcomm modem (LTE)
  • No reverse charging
  • No improved repairability
  • Added a camera tumor
  • Added even more weight
  • "Pro" pricing is still obnoxious
Besides the fact that Apple probably could've give you more storage for the $, made the switch to USB C & have a better flush camera lens design. The rest of the list doesn't seem relevant to me, for the trade-offs and/or hype.

1) You can't really expect to have a new phone design every year or 2 and expect massive changes? Cars don't even do this many changes and cars generally take 5-7 years to develop a new generation with a new design.

2) Refresh rate... well. If you want to conserve power and maintain a slimmer battery capacity then you'll have to choose a lower rate. Because... higher refresh rate => more power => bigger battery (to maintain usage times) => need faster charging (to maintain charge times/have reasonable charge times) => need bigger wattage charger etc. etc. Never ending cycle.

3) 5G well... whoever makes the modem or whichever doesn't matter. Apple recently bought Intel's modem business so they're probably working on it. 5G is still in it's infancy, so there's no real use for 5G until a nationwide-roll out is going to be happening very fast (which it isn't, only select cities has it). By then, that'll be time for the next iPhone release.

4) Reverse charging
Utterly pointless & inefficient. It's for those people who can't seem to charge their other devices but the phone. Fix: how about you charge your devices.

5) Improved repairability... uhh how is this a disappointment when every other phone manufacture is literally following what Apple is doing? You really think Apple will reverse course, downgrade the materials to plastic, just to put a removable cover on the phone to allow you to change the battery? lol

Other things that are utterly pointless:
Foldable display - Ask Samsung how that worked out, plus foldable... for what? Make a bigger flat display if you want that big of a display.
In screen fingerprint reader - we have Face ID, who cares about your fingerprint? Yeah I get it, some people might prefer using their fingerprint instead of their face, but hey trade-offs taken into consideration, only a small percentage of people will want that, at the cost of an entire redesign.

What I DO care about is, Apple making the platform as best as possible. Get more performance out of the SoC. Reduce power consumption across the board. Optimize the OS. Remove features not used by many to reduce software bloat. Improve the core features of the phone - cameras, communication, and processing power. The rest of the features are very minor in comparison (i.e. USB-C).