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Pbwallstreet

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Yes, I know people will jump on this and flame me. But this is a prediction and we will see if I am right or wrong over time.

I predicted the AVP would fail because it was obvious: it was worse at many things compared to other device types like smartphones and laptops and desktops. That it didn’t have much of a reason to exist.

Same too for the Fold. It is worse at several things compared to non-folding smartphones, laptops, desktops… and doesn’t have much of a reason to exist.

  • Unfolded or folded, the Fold has seams since effectively 2 slabs are sandwiched onto each other and with a hinge. It will always therefore be design compromised compared to a non-folding smartphone.
  • Because of the folding capability, and this is a big deal, it has to have a PLASTIC SCREEN. Plastic is noticeably inferior to glass from an optics standpoint, including reflections, and it will have a crease. And over time, we can see that the crease gets more pronounced with other Foldables. So on this, it will have a worse screen than non-folding products like an iPhone or MacBook or iPad.
  • Fragility and processing power: it will be more fragile because they have to make each slab as thin as possible and there is a hinge, which is subject to breaking and failure. And the thermals suffer which can compromise performance.
  • Very few use cases: the Fold turns into a tablet… but people buy and use non-folding smartphones precisely because of its form-factor: pocketable, one handed use, simple interfaces in software, etc. They aren’t asking for something to turn into a tablet, it doesn’t fit the use cases. And the stats support people not wanting Folds: Foldable smartphones after several years on the market still only have less than 5% of the total smartphone marketshare.
You don’t and won’t see people standing in line at a grocery store with one basket of food in one hand and an unfolded smartphone in the other hand. One handed device use is one of the main use cases of non-folding smartphones.

And for people who also like and want a tablet, it comes down to the problem of the fold being inferior across a set of things to a non-folding iPad.

I don’t see, therefore, how an iPhone Fold can be successful for Apple. Will some people buy it? Yes. How is failure defined? For Apple, it would be not leading in marketshare in the category and not capturing enough customers to make it a viable category to continue developing. Apple needs relatively large markets and scale, and that is not going to happen with the Fold is my prediction.

Go ahead and attack me, and for anyone wanting this device on day 1, that’s great. I don’t think foldables will not exist, but a device that doesn’t have much of a reason to exist is nothing more than a niche market device at best.
 
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No attack - EVERYONE has their opinions.

I just hate people who will bash Apple devices based on what THEY expect versus what I expect.

Examples:
  • iPhone Air was a huge success for ME.
  • Macbook Neo (purchased 2) were a huge success for my wife and I who travels a lot.
  • Mac Studio M5 base will be a huge improvement for ME.

As for the folding iPhone, I will wait and see if it has enough to sway me from my current folding phone (Google Pixel Pro Fold) used for business.
 
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App developer Steve Troughton-Smith agrees with your skepticism OP

full
 
No attack - EVERYONE has their opinions.

I just hate people who will bash Apple devices based on what THEY expect versus what I expect.

Examples:
  • iPhone Air was a huge success for ME.
  • Macbook Neo (purchased 2) were a huge success for my wife and I who travels a lot.
  • Mac Studio M5 base will be a huge improvement for ME.

As for the folding iPhone, I will wait and see if it has enough to sway me from my current folding phone (Google Pixel Pro Fold) used for business.
That’s great those products work for you. I’m just being practical from a business perspective. Some AVP users use their devices and have interesting use cases, but niche isn’t something that pays the bills for Apple.
 
That’s great those products work for you. I’m just being practical from a business perspective. Some AVP users use their devices and have interesting use cases, but niche isn’t something that pays the bills for Apple.
Agree 100% AVP is a very niche product!

Know it very well - I was the one who started the AVP pre-order/delivery/ISP thread.

I returned my first gen AVP after a week when I found out it can't do simple things like sync with my iPhone (could not text, facetime, make calls, receive calls).

Having to remove the AVP from my face each time to make/take/SMS calls from my iPhone was ludicrous!
 
No attack - EVERYONE has their opinions.

I just hate people who will bash Apple devices based on what THEY expect versus what I expect.

Examples:
  • iPhone Air was a huge success for ME.
  • Macbook Neo (purchased 2) were a huge success for my wife and I who travels a lot.
  • Mac Studio M5 base will be a huge improvement for ME.

As for the folding iPhone, I will wait and see if it has enough to sway me from my current folding phone (Google Pixel Pro Fold) used for business.
Agree 100%. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have the Fold 8, enjoy it immensely… been a foldable user since the 2nd generation. I’ve said it plenty times previously… foldables are not for everyone. And it seems as if these negative posts indicate that’s what Apple plans to market it as.

First off, it’s expensive… similar as an iPad Pro. Not many people buy it.. some would call that niche market, but I’d wager any company would want the revenue iPad Pro generates.
 
That's why I never owned an iPad - hate iPad OS; except from work where I had to use it, but now retired so I turned it back in. 👍
I dislike iPad OS too. I bought iPad Pros and sold them on two different occasions. Awkward as heck and interior to my MacBook Air and iPhone 17 Pro Max. I will buy the iPad Mini being released soon. Much easier to use as it’s smaller, etc.

The iPad with magic keyboard is a lawn-mower with wings: same problem, as it’s just worse at many things compared to smartphones and laptops and desktops. As a straight tablet it’s good, but I need that smaller Mini form factor.
 
It will do just fine. Look at the Samsung Fold 8 sales. Most people in the US don't buy phones outright they finance them via the carrier and I am sure carriers will offer great trade-in promos so it will sell just fine.

What's there to look at as it relates to Apple?

They've sold lots of iPhone Minis, Airs and even Vision Pros.

All axed or on the way to it (reportedly).
 
I dislike iPad OS too. I bought iPad Pros and sold them on two different occasions. Awkward as heck and interior to my MacBook Air and iPhone 17 Pro Max. I will buy the iPad Mini being released soon. Much easier to use as it’s smaller, etc.

The iPad with magic keyboard is a lawn-mower with wings: same problem, as it’s just worse at many things compard to smartphones and laptops and desktops. As a straight tablet it’s good, but I need that smaller Mini form factor.
Oh that's so funny how we are very similar!

I got the first gen iPad Pro (still have it) but it's my wife's photobooth business device so I never use it.

As for the Mini, I will be getting the Mini w/ cellular as a celebration gift to myself when (and if) I pass my solo & checkrides and get my private pilot's certificate for VFR flights.

Mini will be my first "avionics tech" to start learning how to fly on instruments (IFR) and GPS.

Currently, only my flight instructor uses his Mini to watch for air traffic separation, weather, and airspace notifications because I have a tendency to fly into restricted airspace and busy airport airspaces while practicing flight.

Looking at using Garmin Pilot or Foreflight for the Mini:
IMG_3843-scaled.jpg
 
I kind of thought this too…. Until I played around with a fold 8… Even though I won’t be getting a foldable phone I can definitely see the appeal. The form factor was actually pretty great tbh. I can see why Samsung is selling so many of these and all of the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. Now multiply that by 5x for the Apple device, they will sell as many as they can make…. The only deterrent might be the price frankly…. But if they don’t go too overboard with the Apple tax it may sell really well
 
You won't get any flame here from any of us, especially those with Samsung's foldables now for a few generations, totally something that the consumer has to weigh for his or her daily usage but I do recommend watching this video by Jerry and you will be surprised that these foldables can take more than meets the eye, I've never thankfully had an issue with any of my phones and I treat them the same way in my daily travels.

 
I kind of thought this too…. Until I played around with a fold 8… Even though I won’t be getting a foldable phone I can definitely see the appeal. The form factor was actually pretty great tbh. I can see why Samsung is selling so many of these and all of the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. Now multiply that by 5x for the Apple device, they will sell as many as they can make…. The only deterrent might be the price frankly…. But if they don’t go too overboard with the Apple tax it may sell really well
Global foldable smartphone marketshare after 7 years as a product category is still only 2%.

An echo-chamber of niche product users isn’t representative of success for Apple.
 
Global foldable smartphone marketshare after 7 years as a product category is still only 2%.

An echo-chamber of niche product users isn’t representative of success for Apple.
But the trend is that foldable smartphone market is going up (not down)… you only looking at it from the standpoint against every phone in the industry when Apple hasn’t even entered the foldable market. Look at the top-selling phones… they come from Apple, I’d expect those global foldable marketshare numbers to go up.

Think logically for a minute, please. You bring up the AVP, they only sold that in limited quantities… only in the Apple Store. The foldable iPhone won’t be sold in that fashion… it would be in carrier stores, online 3rd-party retailers… the chances of success are much greater. And Samsung is selling more of the Fold 8 compared to their previous model… which the Fold 7 was a big upgrade.
 
Click bait

Might not be a best seller, but Samsung and the others have ben making lots of money.
Samsung has it's 8th version, that sells.

People here will remind us that the other brands have been selling these for a long time. And the other ones ain't cheap, so....
How much money have they made? Also yes, other brands have been selling them for 8 generations now. The total percentage of the smartphone market globally that foldable smartphones have is 2%.
 
But the trend is that foldable smartphone market is going up (not down)… you only looking at it from the standpoint against every phone in the industry when Apple hasn’t even entered the foldable market. Look at the top-selling phones… they come from Apple, I’d expect those global foldable marketshare numbers to go up.

Think logically for a minute, please. You bring up the AVP, they only sold that in limited quantities… only in the Apple Store. The foldable iPhone won’t be sold in that fashion… it would be in carrier stores, online 3rd-party retailers… the chances of success are much greater. And Samsung is selling more of the Fold 8 compared to their previous model… which the Fold 7 was a big upgrade.
I had the same discussions with people when I predicted the AVP would fail. The AVP didn’t even meet Apple’s internal, paltry sales expectations and then they scaled production back.

But it won’t matter where or even at what price the iPhone Fold will be sold at: it will fail because it’s a device that doesn’t have much of a reason to exist.
 
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