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Why Windows users don't like to switch

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stoid

stoid

macrumors 601
Original poster
Feb 17, 2002
4,312
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So long, and thanks for all the fish!
On the Windows operating system, if you try to go any deeper that exactly the functions that come at you with a full frontal head on assault of obviousness, you will get headache after headache. Windows user simply accept this as a fact of life that their OS is poorly designed. My friend who is as into windows as I am to the mac said when I asked why everything was so difficult on a windows machine, "*shrug* That's just the way it is." I almost cried because if an exteremly experience windows user can't use pro-features and instead has given up hope, that's bad for a switcher. On the Apple operating system, every single function down to the smallest most obscure parts are totally accessible and user friendly. If a switcher has already given up on the ease of pro features of an OS, they may find the utter simplicity of the Macintosh operating system to be confining. It is only when they realize that "everything just works" on a mac that they will enjoying their switcher experience.
 
I experience this almost everyday. I have been a PC user most of my life, but have recently switched with my purchase of a Tibook over the summer. Not even a couple years ago I used to be one of those people. You know the, "Apple sucks, PC's rule" type. But I am currently working towards my major's in Computer and Electrical Engineering, and I have developed a FAR deeper understanding of what a computer is and what it needs to be. And guess what folks, it doesn't have to involve Windows!

I must say, my switch has been flawless, except for one thing. You get the baggage. You are a "Mac" user now. Every time I bring my Tibook over to my girlfriend's house to get some work done her dad rolls his eyes laughs at me. He cracks jokes about my computer, when he hasn't touched a Mac in over a decade. He thinks he's some kind of computer God cause he can reinstall Windows, wooohoo good for you, I taught myself how to do that when I was 12.

I think the major problem here is that most Window's/ PC users are completely misinformed about Macs that exist today. When someone says "Mac" they think of the ones they used in elementary and high school. They have neither seen nor even heard of OSX. And that was my major reason for my switch, the OS. Oh yeah, they also think about compatibility. They remember that Windows, and MacOS formatted their floppy disks differently and people hate not being compatible. But today with OSX I have no problem with sharing files with my PC and my friends.

The problem is, people don't know the facts. And its like my psychology professor said, "What's scary is not what people know, it's what they think they know". Uhh...I feel better now. I needed to vent that for a while now.
 
When I talk to Windows users, it never ceases to amaze me how often I hear, "Macs are for stupid people. Their OS is too easy to use." Trying to understand that logic makes my brain hurt.

I want my OS to just work, and I want it to work easily and intuitively, and that makes *me* stupid?

Meanwhile, it's very intelligent to shell out money for an OS that's not "too easy to use", not so stable due to the necessity to support legacy hardware, and whose company is being sued for all of the security holes...:rolleyes:
 
WitePony, you're point about no one knows what Mac OS X is and where Macintosh currently stands is incredibly pertinant. My college prides itself on teaching the latest information about the computer word, and the materials we use for class still talk about OS 8 and 9 like they are rather new.

LieLite, I have to talk to my RA, but I think that's why he is disgusted that I got a 15inch AluBook, he might think I'm stupid.

I guess that Mac users must understand that the Windows platform truly is a gaming platform on all levels. Even the OS is a game, a challenge. If the OS is too easy and does not fight even bit of onward progress you try to make, a Windows user feels like they are not getting the full OS experience. Since the Mac platform aidsproductivity, they are confused by the simplicity and become bored looking for ways to spend the time they save by useing a stable and producity OS. I personally found myself over burdened using the campus computing system to try and get all my work done. Then I recieved my AluBook, and I have had so much free time I hardly know what to do with myself.
 
It is no suprise that even now, Mac heads stereotype and blanket statement all the typical "wintel users" as blundering idiots
Nonetheless, i will present a dilemma for you to munch on.

My roommate, here @ Univeristy of Maryland is a hardcore (anti - AMD) pro INTEL chip user. However, he is also a CS major, and loves his new 15" Al PBook (oh and new Ipod) to death. If more popular games were on the Mac, he said he would consider not even USING his current 3.0p4 system...alas that is probably the only thing holding him back.

I run my specialized registry entries, DCOMbobulator, and my 2 CD's of patches, drivers, and applications, and i can easily clean install XP Corporate Integrated SP1 in under 1.5 hours, tweaked and ready to go.

That's what knowing your system is.

I have for once never given up on computer problems. The Via kt133's however...(4 year old original AMD thunderbird chipset) left much to be desired.

"The OS is a challenge"- is that so? I've installed XP Corporate for 3 of my friends, done it under 2 hours, and none of them have had problems for the past 9 months (and this is my VERY first time building computers). Of course, all are based on Nforce2.

Little do most Mac heads realize that "restart", BSOD, and other common lockup problems are linked with HARDWARE (bad memory sticks, hot case temps, weak psu, etc.), and not software.

I have found ways to also gain back memory on my PC (which has been left running for over 3 weeks straight). By closing every single program process, and then explorer (which is about 16 processes) i can go from a 400-500mb page file bak to 70mb of a clean reboot.

I don't even have to reboot to gain bak leaked memory--and that is awesome.
 
I've also experienced this firsthand. People asking 'where's the exe files'... Crap like that - it's really frustrating... i know this one girl who had to put like every icon on her desktop like a windoze machine - kept asking stupid questions about the 'c drive' and '.bat' files. What's really funny is windoze is sooo hacked together.. It's like an OS of workarounds to be compatible with DOS, etc (because DOS can't handle very much).. All these extra files and things to 'trick' the os into using modern memory, drives etc... Of course there isn't a real DOS in modern windoze, but they still hold on to all these dos conventions (c drive, etc)...
 
Originally posted by Mav451
It is no suprise that even now, Mac heads stereotype and blanket statement all the typical "wintel users" as blundering idiots
Nonetheless, i will present a dilemma for you to munch on.

My roommate, here @ Univeristy of Maryland is a hardcore (anti - AMD) pro INTEL chip user. However, he is also a CS major, and loves his new 15" Al PBook (oh and new Ipod) to death. If more popular games were on the Mac, he said he would consider not even USING his current 3.0p4 system...alas that is probably the only thing holding him back.

I run my specialized registry entries, DCOMbobulator, and my 2 CD's of patches, drivers, and applications, and i can easily clean install XP Corporate Integrated SP1 in under 1.5 hours, tweaked and ready to go.

That's what knowing your system is.

I have for once never given up on computer problems. The Via kt133's however...(4 year old original AMD thunderbird chipset) left much to be desired.

"The OS is a challenge"- is that so? I've installed XP Corporate for 3 of my friends, done it under 2 hours, and none of them have had problems for the past 9 months (and this is my VERY first time building computers). Of course, all are based on Nforce2.

Little do most Mac heads realize that "restart", BSOD, and other common lockup problems are linked with HARDWARE (bad memory sticks, hot case temps, weak psu, etc.), and not software.

I have found ways to also gain back memory on my PC (which has been left running for over 3 weeks straight). By closing every single program process, and then explorer (which is about 16 processes) i can go from a 400-500mb page file bak to 70mb of a clean reboot.

I don't even have to reboot to gain bak leaked memory--and that is awesome.
Click to expand...



You want a cookie or something?
 
Originally posted by Mav451
It is no suprise that even now, Mac heads stereotype and blanket statement all the typical "wintel users" as blundering idiots
Nonetheless, i will present a dilemma for you to munch on.
Click to expand...

WHOA! Man, you're like on the wrong site.. Hey - this is for fans of Macs and stuff... Maybe if you type 'winblows xp corporate blah blah' into a search engine you could find an appropriate forum... Win XP is j u n k BTW (just my opinion, and I'm rather educated, but forgive me nonetheless)... I dunno, I always have to fix win boxes for people who have no clue (hardware and otherwise)... It would make my life easier if they used Mac's, that's for sure... Actually, Mac users tend to be VERY computer literate, FYI. I can administer a windoze network, as well as Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, etc... But I LOVE the Mac, it's the best! What can I say but 'fire away!'
 
Originally posted by Peyote
You want a cookie or something?
Click to expand...

No offense Mav, I understand the complexity of the task you completed, but I just about died laughing at Peyote's question!!! I mean, sure you can become a Windows expert and that's great, but to brag about it just proves our point. Any ol' person can do a fresh install and tweak of Mac OS X, but it takes a genius to comprehend how to do anythnig but Office, Explorer, and games on a windows system.
 
Here is definitely NOT the place to be bragging about how fast you can install windows, I'm quite confident that almost no one gives a rodents rear end about that.

Also the fact that you have specialized registry entries and 2 CDs of patches and whatnot should tell you something about your os. Toss in a Jaguar CD and with about 6-7 clicks you can sit back and have the installer do the rest. Having to install 'tweaks', 'patches' and 'drivers' is the challenge and it doesn't make you a man or anything. :p

And I like being a 'Mac head'.
 
[q]Little do most Mac heads realize that "restart", BSOD, and other common lockup problems are linked with HARDWARE (bad memory sticks, hot case temps, weak psu, etc.), and not software.[/q]

LOL!!!! ok so your saying most pc users do? This is the way I see it, most COMPUTER users... yada yada yada. if your "into" computers you will know this whether your a mac user or a pc user. yes more PC users know this then Mac users but thats only because there are more PC users.
 
I just started a computer solutions compny my first problem was windozzz based how do you put Mac OSX ON IT.!!!!

lol lol

As for windows users dont like to switch i switched over 5 months ago to a wait for it a g3 400 i mac i will admit i use both pc and Mac Mac for work PC For games because the g3 is a bit slow on the graphics but it still plays WC3 cant complain at that.

Bad cases etc heat memory sticks dont seem to know much about those problems with Macs ..

Ive got 4 people who are wanting Macs now just from looking at Mac osx and the g3 never mind the g4 or g5s ...

Mac osx and WINDOWZ XP are both relaible os's no dobut about it. Just the computers are diffrent in the pc world

now that ive just made no sense ,,...
 
iTag: If you're using OS X, please enable the automatic spell check by ctrl-clicking on the text field. This is a forum, not a chatting board.

And if you do have it enabled, don't ignore it. It's there to help others make sense of what you write.



irmongoose
 
Opinions from a recent switcher/adder

OK guys, let me give you my input on the matter... having just "switched" (added, really) when my new 12" PB came in on Thursday.

My shakedown experience reinforces the opinion I had previously, which is this: What the Mac is designed to let you do, it does very easily, and stylishly. But if it doesn't work, it can be a real pain to get it going.

I was of the opinion (from my Maccie friends, and from you guys) that this would be a dead-simple transition, basically take it out of the box and I'm good to go. Well.... to that end, I logged all of the problems I had trying to set up my machine (which really is lovely, btw!)

First: things that are dead-simple and easier than Windows:
- plugging in USB devices, digital cameras, card readers... they just work.
- it's the slickest, nicest Unix desktop I've ever seen.
- iDVD makes DVD presentations that BLOW ME AWAY by how incredibly slick and professional they look.
- Keynote is going to be the most fun I've ever had preparing presentations.
- Support for my Sony CLIE was plug-and-play, once I purchased Missing Sync, and I look forward to having everything synced between my CLIE, my iPod, my Mac, etc.
-Stickies are the best tool ever!

Now, here are the problems I had.
-I plugged in my iPod (which I had previously been using with my Windows box, with XPlay). iTunes offered to synchronize everything, to which end it DELETED ALL MY SONGS without warning me. Very nice. (I know, I know, I should have turned off auto-sync...)
-I had a real devil of a time trying to connect to my LAN, something which everyone tells me is supposed to "just work". And it does, the problem was at the switch and not at the Mac. But the lack of LAN lights, packet count windows, etc. made it difficult to diagnose. Had the PB had a LAN light, I would have known what the problem was right away. As it is I had to run around between floors trying to see if the switch saw the connection.
-Likewise, connecting to my wireless LAN was much more difficult than I thought it would be. I won't bore you with the details but again I followed the steps I'm supposed to take, but simply got nowhere. I eventually got it working, but I had to turn off all wireless security. I'll re-enable WEP later and hope it gets going.
-I'm experiencing peculiar annoying hangs (the spinning beach ball) in various applications, for reasons I can't find.. rebooting makes it go away.
-the Mac does not keep dual contrast settings on its LCD (low brightness when on battery, max brightness when plugged into AC) like my Dell machines do.

The complexity in Windows lies in the multitude of ways to get anything done: the menu method, the right-click method, the Wizard method, the Control Panel method, the command-line method, .... The Mac simplifies that by generally trying to give us a one-step interface. The problem is that if for some reason that one-step doesn't work, there's no (obvious) recourse. That's mostly what I struggled with, I kept my Windows mentality of "Hmm, ok, that didn't work, how else might I try to do the same thing?"

Looking good though. The Powerbook hasn't "blown me away" but I am quite impressed so far.
 
Talk to people on PC forums like www.futuremark.com, they say the main problem with Macs (and why they will not switch) is that they are too expensive compared to PCs. The second problem is games, but since games only acount for about 20% of the PC market, it is not so important (unless Apple wants to mainly target homes and not businesses).

A lot of them would love to get a Mac if it was cheaper. Apple needs to make something like this if they really want PC users to switch:

2Ghz (single) G5, ATI Radeon 9800pro, 60GB Hard Disk, 512MB RAM 17in CRT monitor - £900 (around $1400)

This computer would be comparible in terms of speed to similar offerings by Dell and others.
 
Originally posted by Mav451
It is no suprise that even now, Mac heads stereotype and blanket statement all the typical "wintel users" as blundering idiots
Nonetheless, i will present a dilemma for you to munch on.

My roommate, here @ Univeristy of Maryland is a hardcore (anti - AMD) pro INTEL chip user. However, he is also a CS major, and loves his new 15" Al PBook (oh and new Ipod) to death. If more popular games were on the Mac, he said he would consider not even USING his current 3.0p4 system...alas that is probably the only thing holding him back.

I run my specialized registry entries, DCOMbobulator, and my 2 CD's of patches, drivers, and applications, and i can easily clean install XP Corporate Integrated SP1 in under 1.5 hours, tweaked and ready to go.

That's what knowing your system is.

I have for once never given up on computer problems. The Via kt133's however...(4 year old original AMD thunderbird chipset) left much to be desired.

"The OS is a challenge"- is that so? I've installed XP Corporate for 3 of my friends, done it under 2 hours, and none of them have had problems for the past 9 months (and this is my VERY first time building computers). Of course, all are based on Nforce2.

Little do most Mac heads realize that "restart", BSOD, and other common lockup problems are linked with HARDWARE (bad memory sticks, hot case temps, weak psu, etc.), and not software.

I have found ways to also gain back memory on my PC (which has been left running for over 3 weeks straight). By closing every single program process, and then explorer (which is about 16 processes) i can go from a 400-500mb page file bak to 70mb of a clean reboot.

I don't even have to reboot to gain bak leaked memory--and that is awesome.
Click to expand...

I think most of the "PC users are idiots" comments stem from PC users who have no/very little exerpience using Macs and make idiotic statements like "Macs suck, you can't upgrade their hardware" or "Macs suck, are stupid and hard to use" or, the always classic, "Macs suck."

You also proved a couple of people's ponits. You can make Windows a better running OS by tweaking/hacking/customizing it and that's fine for a computer geek. But for the other 99% of the computer using populace that's not an option. Either because of lack of knowledge, lack of time, or both. Thru high school and college I loved messing around w/Windows and my hardware but once I got outta college and into the real world I had an unexpected priority shift. I needed to spend more time using a computer and less time hacking/customizing it (not to mention our IT guy probably wouldn't like it if I came in and started messing w/all the windows boxes). If I'm busy at work I don't have time to f*ck around w/a machine that decided to start acting funny. I want to edit. We have lots of clients paying us lots of money to get product out the door in a very time sensitive industry so figuring out why our windows machine deicded to crap out is a royal PITA. Now do our Macs trip out too? Of course, no computer is perferct. But our Macs are much less error prone than our PCs.

And although hardware can cause lock-ups and other errors most of those problems are Windows related. Linux is significantly more stable than any version of Windows and it runs on the same hardware Windows does.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by hvfsl
Talk to people on PC forums like www.futuremark.com, they say the main problem with Macs (and why they will not switch) is that they are too expensive compared to PCs. The second problem is games, but since games only acount for about 20% of the PC market, it is not so important (unless Apple wants to mainly target homes and not businesses).

A lot of them would love to get a Mac if it was cheaper. Apple needs to make something like this if they really want PC users to switch:

2Ghz (single) G5, ATI Radeon 9800pro, 60GB Hard Disk, 512MB RAM 17in CRT monitor - £900 (around $1400)

This computer would be comparible in terms of speed to similar offerings by Dell and others.
Click to expand...
I read something the other day that was saying that Apple doesn't actually need to go for the low end market. It makes some of the biggest margins in the business basically because it has loyal users who ARE prepared to pay extra for a better machine/ user experience. Sure I'd love G5 for £900 (the spec you describe is sounds like a G5 emac) but even if Apple were to go for market share and reduce it's prices there'd still be people going 'I can get an emachine PC for £300($500)'. Nobody tells BMW or Lexus that they should make cheaper more basic cars just because Ford and Honda sell more cars than them.

We'd all like Apple's to be more widely used but some people have either prejudices or bad past experiences with Macs. A guy I work with took the piss out of me when I got my first mac because he'd used one about 6 years ago and hated it's incompatibility. But his Mum bought a new iMac recently and he's used it and OS X and he's that impressed he says his next laptop will probably be a powerbook.;) ;) ;)
 
Re: Why Windows users don't like to switch

Originally posted by stoid
On the Windows operating system, if you try to go any deeper that exactly the functions that come at you with a full frontal head on assault of obviousness, you will get headache after headache. Windows user simply accept this as a fact of life that their OS is poorly designed. My friend who is as into windows as I am to the mac said when I asked why everything was so difficult on a windows machine, "*shrug* That's just the way it is." I almost cried because if an exteremly experience windows user can't use pro-features and instead has given up hope, that's bad for a switcher. On the Apple operating system, every single function down to the smallest most obscure parts are totally accessible and user friendly. If a switcher has already given up on the ease of pro features of an OS, they may find the utter simplicity of the Macintosh operating system to be confining. It is only when they realize that "everything just works" on a mac that they will enjoying their switcher experience.
Click to expand...

being a tech i see things that can be improved on both platforms and see that acutally we are all years away from the computer being user friendly...but the mac os is far closer than windows

many windows users have accepted that the os is very hard to use...it is so complicated that you can get a phd just studying the ins and outs of the windows family of products...the more i learn everyday as a pc tech, the more i realize that i don't know

now if every person who never had a chance at a computer got to have a mac for a month vs a pc for a month, what do you think the outcome of that experiment would be:p
 
Originally posted by hvfsl
Talk to people on PC forums like www.futuremark.com, they say the main problem with Macs (and why they will not switch) is that they are too expensive compared to PCs. The second problem is games, but since games only acount for about 20% of the PC market, it is not so important (unless Apple wants to mainly target homes and not businesses).

A lot of them would love to get a Mac if it was cheaper. Apple needs to make something like this if they really want PC users to switch:

2Ghz (single) G5, ATI Radeon 9800pro, 60GB Hard Disk, 512MB RAM 17in CRT monitor - £900 (around $1400)

This computer would be comparible in terms of speed to similar offerings by Dell and others.
Click to expand...


If all you compare are basic hardware numbers and sticker price Apple is never going to compete w/Dell on that level. If you look at the entire computer (both hardware and installed software) the price gap shrinks a lot. Computers are fast enough now that average consumers should be comparing usability and software bundles, but it's easier to sell someone/market a "faster" computer instead of a better computer.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe

And although hardware can cause lock-ups and other errors most of those problems are Windows related. Linux is significantly more stable than any version of Windows and it runs on the same hardware Windows does.


Lethal
Click to expand...

that is a great point

sometimes mac users attribute the pc probems too much to the pc boxes and not to the operating system...in nearly five years in the high tech field, i have found the issues to be more with the windows operating system than all other factors put together

i do think windows has improved greatly, but it is still a far cry from the mac os

i use os 9 and i love it...while os x got a bad and slow start, i feel ready to switch to that operating system soon enough...but i will have to get all new adobe and macromedia software to work with it...but being that i am talking about software, i will have to get those titles soon anyway
 
I once had a guy tell me, "the mac OS is to easy to use (referring to OS 9)"

I don't know about you guys, but i don't want to have a CS degree inorder to get my computer to work.

And after spending all that money on a machine, i really don't want to spend another substantial amount of time in figuring out how to get everything to work properly. IE new drives, Hardware, software, because that just means that i can't work on the things that i want to, and things that make me money.

Someone was saying how they can get their windows XP system up and running in 1.5 hours.
Great

I can get my OS 9 system running in less then 45 minutes. And i don't have any special CD's with applications, Patches, Drivers, other then the CD's that came with hardware and software that i bough - some hardware doesn't even need driver installation. Untill this post i've never felt the need to acctually tell that to anyone because i didn't think that it was such a feat to be able to dumb and reset up a system drive. I've never even thought about having to tweak my OS, like i've been reading about doing in windows in some of these other posts.

I've always thought computers where supposed to help us innovate and create new things, help us move forward. How much forward are we moving when getting the computer to work takes more time then working on it. Isn't it the job the the people that made the computer to make it work for us? Other wise i want my money back?

In regards to the the post about BMW and Lexus. Those companies aren't complaining about market share, and aren't putting out AD campaines to get people to "switch" Like apple does. BMW and Lexus are quite happy with their market share because it makes their product exclusive. Apple doesn't. they want more people on macs, and they do want more market share.

I myself was a Windows troll (macs suck - just cause) untill 5 years ago when i realized i was spending more time getting my computer to edit my video work, then i was spending editing my video. When i switched 4 years ago, you could say i became a Mac Troll then.

Friends say - "i'm having trouple with my PC"
My response - "buy a mac, PC SUCKS"
 
Originally posted by jefhatfield
sometimes mac users attribute the pc probems too much to the pc boxes and not to the operating system...in nearly five years in the high tech field, i have found the issues to be more with the windows operating system than all other factors put together
Click to expand...

Most of them are due to drivers. Micrfosoft could control that, but there would be bitching about that.

Microsoft had defaulted in the W98 beta to not allowing unsigned drivers. And it was very difficult to enable it. It didn't fly in the beta and it won't fly now. People would say MS is just trying to force developers to pay the WHQL fee.

IHVs are getting better at qualifying their drivers, but drivers and third party applications are still the primary cause of instability in windows and probably all other OS that aren't embedded and locked up.

edit: You also have motherboard manufacturers trying to tweak their systems for the competitive edge. MS partnering with Phoenix BIOS is great news.... to some.
 
Originally posted by revenuee
I once had a guy tell me, "the mac OS is to easy to use (referring to OS 9)"

I don't know about you guys, but i don't want to have a CS degree inorder to get my computer to work.

And after spending all that money on a machine, i really don't want to spend another substantial amount of time in figuring out how to get everything to work properly. IE new drives, Hardware, software, because that just means that i can't work on the things that i want to, and things that make me money.
Click to expand...
If you had read the third post down, I said ultimately the same thing.
 
Originally posted by LimeLite
If you had read the third post down, I said ultimately the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yes, i see the redundancy now... sorry, i guess i could of just qouted, oh well
 
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