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Why Windows users don't like to switch
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Um, considering there's next to little or 1% from the PC side on this forum, a crossplatform dicussion on this forum would be, for the most part Mac-only.
Would it be fine for most? Of course. You're on a Mac forum and expect Mac-biased responses--that what you come here for.
Would i expect this thread to contain any insight from the PC side? Not really.
As i'm one of the few PC users here, I am already being overwhelmed (and that's just this single thread alone). Majority is not necessarily right all the time (The majority on this very forum being Mac, the majority overall in the world being PCs--the statement applies to both)
Would it be fine for most? Of course. You're on a Mac forum and expect Mac-biased responses--that what you come here for.
Would i expect this thread to contain any insight from the PC side? Not really.
As i'm one of the few PC users here, I am already being overwhelmed (and that's just this single thread alone). Majority is not necessarily right all the time (The majority on this very forum being Mac, the majority overall in the world being PCs--the statement applies to both)
But why come here to discuss PC's? You're not being attacked for being a PC user, you can not blame it on that. It's the ideas you're presenting that are the issue. And also, how do you expect to have a legitimate cross-platform discussion when you say you've never even used OS X? At least I and many others have had experience with Windows, and based on that experience, we've chosen Apple. You have only experienced Windows, and based on that you choose, surprise surprise, Windows. Come back when you've used OS X for enough time to form an educated opinion, then the real discussion can begin. Until then, your points are as biased as you accuse us all of being.
WAIT WAIT WAIT.
But when did i attack OSX?
I attempted to debunk myths about WINDOWS ONLY. It had nothing to do with OSX.
From what my CS major roommate has told me, "OSX is awesome". Again, Intel / custom built guy, saying that OSX is awesome.
When i said cross platform, i mean PC/Mac sides talking about WINDOWS. I had not meant to say that PC/Mac users talking about windows AND OSX. I don't know enough about OSX to even discuss it. There is a difference.
But when did i attack OSX?
I attempted to debunk myths about WINDOWS ONLY. It had nothing to do with OSX.
From what my CS major roommate has told me, "OSX is awesome". Again, Intel / custom built guy, saying that OSX is awesome.
When i said cross platform, i mean PC/Mac sides talking about WINDOWS. I had not meant to say that PC/Mac users talking about windows AND OSX. I don't know enough about OSX to even discuss it. There is a difference.
I didn't say you attacked OS X. I just said you should try it.
Maybe you can explain why it is your job to debunk all of the PC myths on the mac side? And of all places to do it, charging right into a mac site probably isn't the best way to do it. I mean, no offense, but nothing you've said has convinced me that my opinion of PC's is unjustified. Why? Because they are based in my own experience, just as they are with many people here. See, when 95% of the world uses PC's, it's much, much more common for a mac user to be exposed to Windows than vice versa. As you've admitted yourself, you have no mac experience. I however, have had experience in both, which is why, when I say that it is my belief that OS X is better than Windows, I have a right to say that, because it is an *informed* opinion. If you were to say Windows is better, you have a right to that belief, but what are you comparing it to? All you know is Windows?
What I'm saying is this: Your reason for coming here is to debunk the notion that Windows has a lot of problems and that it is lacking compared to OS X. However, you can't legitimately say that Windows *isn't* lacking compared to OS X, because you've never used OS X. And though it may be your experience that Windows works flawlessly, it is my *experience*, not belief, that it does not.
Maybe you can explain why it is your job to debunk all of the PC myths on the mac side? And of all places to do it, charging right into a mac site probably isn't the best way to do it. I mean, no offense, but nothing you've said has convinced me that my opinion of PC's is unjustified. Why? Because they are based in my own experience, just as they are with many people here. See, when 95% of the world uses PC's, it's much, much more common for a mac user to be exposed to Windows than vice versa. As you've admitted yourself, you have no mac experience. I however, have had experience in both, which is why, when I say that it is my belief that OS X is better than Windows, I have a right to say that, because it is an *informed* opinion. If you were to say Windows is better, you have a right to that belief, but what are you comparing it to? All you know is Windows?
What I'm saying is this: Your reason for coming here is to debunk the notion that Windows has a lot of problems and that it is lacking compared to OS X. However, you can't legitimately say that Windows *isn't* lacking compared to OS X, because you've never used OS X. And though it may be your experience that Windows works flawlessly, it is my *experience*, not belief, that it does not.
Again i have not attacked OSX at all. I have not made comparisons to OSX at all.
Where did you get that idea in the first place?
All that I'm trying to say is that Windows XP is more useable than people here are making it out to be. THAT IS ALL. It has NOTHING to do with comparisons to OSX. Nothing.
Don't make up statements that i DID NOT MAKE just so you can make your "PC user A does not know anything about OSX--let's criticize him for it". Nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise. What will make me switch is probably from what my roommate will tell me.
Where did you get that idea in the first place?
All that I'm trying to say is that Windows XP is more useable than people here are making it out to be. THAT IS ALL. It has NOTHING to do with comparisons to OSX. Nothing.
Don't make up statements that i DID NOT MAKE just so you can make your "PC user A does not know anything about OSX--let's criticize him for it". Nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise. What will make me switch is probably from what my roommate will tell me.
I did not criticize you for not using OS X at all! Wow, you either are getting really defensive or you just love starting fights.
All I said was that I recommend that you use OS X. I didn't say switch to it, I said use it, as in test it, try it out. You keep on getting upset at me for accusing you of bashing OS X but not once did I say that.
The reason I'm saying to try OS X is that maybe once you'd used it, you'd understand why there are people who think that, compared to it, XP is "unusable". Not that XP is trash, but that in comparison, OS X is much more intuitive and fluid.
But once again, this all comes down to opinion. Even saying XP is usable is still an opinion.
All I said was that I recommend that you use OS X. I didn't say switch to it, I said use it, as in test it, try it out. You keep on getting upset at me for accusing you of bashing OS X but not once did I say that.
The reason I'm saying to try OS X is that maybe once you'd used it, you'd understand why there are people who think that, compared to it, XP is "unusable". Not that XP is trash, but that in comparison, OS X is much more intuitive and fluid.
But once again, this all comes down to opinion. Even saying XP is usable is still an opinion.
That's you criticizing me about not using OSX. I'm not getting defensive. You're the one starting the fights b/c you are MAKING UP MY STATEMENTS. How much more clear can i be? I didn't say anything about OSX. Anything you say about me comparing XP to OSX is a lie.
being a mac user mostly on my free time, and a pc tech for a living (doing some mac work), i see good sides to both the hardware and software of both platforms
if a complete newbie wanted me to sum up the field for them in a few small sentences as it relates to their strenghs and weaknesses, i would say pc hardware is incresingly affordable and better and faster all the time...and it's a great time to buy
...and the thing that makes the mac really shine is their operating system and ease of use and that the mac would be easier to learn quickly
if a complete newbie wanted me to sum up the field for them in a few small sentences as it relates to their strenghs and weaknesses, i would say pc hardware is incresingly affordable and better and faster all the time...and it's a great time to buy
...and the thing that makes the mac really shine is their operating system and ease of use and that the mac would be easier to learn quickly
I don't consider myself a hardcore user. I have never built my own computer, though I have re-installed my WIn 95 and 98. XP was no big deal to learn BUT... it is so hard for me to do certain things on. Networking to other computers is a serious pain for me for one. The kicker for me though was the lastest round of viri that hit. I have never been hit before because I am very careful about not opening email attachements. But when I got hit by blaster I said enough. Yes, I should have downloaded the CRITICAL PATCH but I didn't. Then I find out how easy it was to build the virus and got pissed that Microsoft built a gaping hole in my comuter. THIS IS A FEATURE!? It must be because there are hole discovered every week. The hardest part of switching for me (switched last Saturday) was that I have NEVER spent any time on OSX. None...zip. I had hear that it was very easy and stable so I tought I would give it a try. Took me an hour to figure out how to do the basic and a week to learn how to do everything else I do on a computer
The learning curve was basically non-exisient. When I upgraded from win98 to XP is took a good several weeks before I felt comfortable with the system. I still feel that XP is solid... just full of holes and more than a little diffficult to use.
my 02.$
I never stated that you ever compared OS X to XP. What I said was that you're reason for being here, if I'm not mistaken, was to debunk the thought that PCs are unusable or lacking. My point was that, as a user of both, it is my experience that Windows is lacking in comparison. No one here honestly thinks that Windows is straight up unusable. At least I doubt that. But most people will tell you that they think that Windows is inferior compared to OS X.
If you're here to stop people from thinking XP is unusable, there's no use. People know that obviously it is usable, 95% of people "use" it, so it must be "usable". But it is a common belief for the users of this site that OS X is *more* usable.
Oh ok -- that's much different than what you said a few posts before 
I'm not trying to CHANGE what people will think, just giving them opinion. My opinion answered the question why Windows users don't switch--it is MORE usable than most on this forum are making it. That is my entire opinion in a nutshell.
I'm not trying to CHANGE what people will think, just giving them opinion. My opinion answered the question why Windows users don't switch--it is MORE usable than most on this forum are making it. That is my entire opinion in a nutshell.
Getting the Work Done
Kinda interesting to read the thoughts of Mac and PC Users around here. all I gotta say is when I wanna take the time to mess with a screwdriver I tinker with my Pc's like a mechanic would tinker with his old car at home. but when I want to get real work done... and when I want it done in a Nice, relyable enviroment I go right to my Ti-PB or my PowerMac.
and talk anout "out of the box" functionality. in about an hour a mac user can have Mac OS X installed, a firewall setup. share printers with users of the same or different OS's, be chatting... etc... etc... etc... I'm certified in MS, Novell, A+, network management degree Etc... (I'm not bragging just stating so the PC lovers don't get deffencive about me knowing nothing about PC's)
and I love My Mac.. I deal with windowz problems at work all day, when I come home I don't want to deal with the same stuff.
anyhow there's my 2 cents worth
Kinda interesting to read the thoughts of Mac and PC Users around here. all I gotta say is when I wanna take the time to mess with a screwdriver I tinker with my Pc's like a mechanic would tinker with his old car at home. but when I want to get real work done... and when I want it done in a Nice, relyable enviroment I go right to my Ti-PB or my PowerMac.
and talk anout "out of the box" functionality. in about an hour a mac user can have Mac OS X installed, a firewall setup. share printers with users of the same or different OS's, be chatting... etc... etc... etc... I'm certified in MS, Novell, A+, network management degree Etc... (I'm not bragging just stating so the PC lovers don't get deffencive about me knowing nothing about PC's)
and I love My Mac.. I deal with windowz problems at work all day, when I come home I don't want to deal with the same stuff.
anyhow there's my 2 cents worth
That might be part of it, but it's also very possible that they don't switch because they still believe all of the myths that Macs are no good.
Actually Mav, this is as sensible as it gets in any crossplatform discussion on this board.
I still don't see how everyone has a perfect OSX. Notwithstanding numerous hardware problems with my iBook (It was so bad apple had to replace it!) , OSX has been the most unstable OS I have ever used. Programs quit unexpextantly on a daily basis, I get a kernal panic once a week, the computer doesn't want to wake up from sleep and after I upgraded to 10.2.6, I get this annoying clicking sound that apple doesn't have a fix for.
Now I am not saying windows is great either...thats why I "switched". Nonetheless, in my experience, OSX is not much better than 2000 or XP. Others will disagree and haven't had the problems I face (or they refuse to admit/ accept it) and that is great. As for me, there are benefits to a mac and there are benefits to a pc...and when I purchase another computer...I am going to choose the computer (apple or pc) that has the most bang for the buck. I guess I am saying that I am indifferent.
I still don't see how everyone has a perfect OSX. Notwithstanding numerous hardware problems with my iBook (It was so bad apple had to replace it!) , OSX has been the most unstable OS I have ever used. Programs quit unexpextantly on a daily basis, I get a kernal panic once a week, the computer doesn't want to wake up from sleep and after I upgraded to 10.2.6, I get this annoying clicking sound that apple doesn't have a fix for.
Now I am not saying windows is great either...thats why I "switched". Nonetheless, in my experience, OSX is not much better than 2000 or XP. Others will disagree and haven't had the problems I face (or they refuse to admit/ accept it) and that is great. As for me, there are benefits to a mac and there are benefits to a pc...and when I purchase another computer...I am going to choose the computer (apple or pc) that has the most bang for the buck. I guess I am saying that I am indifferent.
As i'm one of the few PC users here, I am already being overwhelmed (and that's just this single thread alone). Majority is not necessarily right all the time (The majority on this very forum being Mac, the majority overall in the world being PCs--the statement applies to both)
OK so far as I can tell you are not one of a few PC users... in fac fromt the posts it appears that mos of the peopel here use both platforms at least some of the time. It seems that the minory you belong in this forum to is the one that has never used OSX. The lack of knowledge that is being lamented it that you have never used OSX. This has been asked several times in several different ways but... why are you here? Have you been hired by microsoft to go to non-pro-windows forums and defend the empire? Look, its your opinion that P is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Fine. I felt the same way when I started to use it (after the learning curve). That's your opinion and I haven't read anyone trying to make you change that. Only point out some of their own experiences with the XP and compare that with their experience with Mac. They are also entitled to their opinions based upon their own experiences. Use OSX. Will it change your life? Will it make you more attractive, witty, see God? No. Its a computer not Tony Robbins. Give it a try and then compare your experiences between the OS's. Maybe you will still prefer XP. No one is going to shed a tear and I doubt that Steve Jobs will call to beg you to 'switch'. Undersand that nobody cares what you prefer. The reason we frequent this forum is because we prefer Macs. The quetion should be "how many of us go to pro wintel forums and point out the flaws of their platforms". I don't know but I do know that i don't go there. I just don't care. I have been there (windows XP) and done that and I don't want to go back.
(edit) dear god I jst read my post and am appalled at my tpyos...)
OK so far as I can tell you are not one of a few PC users... in fac fromt the posts it appears that mos of the peopel here use both platforms at least some of the time. It seems that the minory you belong in this forum to is the one that has never used OSX. The lack of knowledge that is being lamented it that you have never used OSX. This has been asked several times in several different ways but... why are you here? Have you been hired by microsoft to go to non-pro-windows forums and defend the empire? Look, its your opinion that P is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Fine. I felt the same way when I started to use it (after the learning curve). That's your opinion and I haven't read anyone trying to make you change that. Only point out some of their own experiences with the XP and compare that with their experience with Mac. They are also entitled to their opinions based upon their own experiences. Use OSX. Will it change your life? Will it make you more attractive, witty, see God? No. Its a computer not Tony Robbins. Give it a try and then compare your experiences between the OS's. Maybe you will still prefer XP. No one is going to shed a tear and I doubt that Steve Jobs will call to beg you to 'switch'. Undersand that nobody cares what you prefer. The reason we frequent this forum is because we prefer Macs. The quetion should be "how many of us go to pro wintel forums and point out the flaws of their platforms". I don't know but I do know that i don't go there. I just don't care. I have been there (windows XP) and done that and I don't want to go back.
(edit) dear god I jst read my post and am appalled at my tpyos...)
Back on topic...
There are a lot of reasons. Some of them valid - price, software (including games). Some people are just used to Windows and don't want to make any big changes. But the same people that roll their eyes when I tell them to buy a Mac (many with not so valid reasons) are the ones that always call me with problems with their PCs. I'm the computer guy in the family.
The fact is that MOST of the Mac users that complain about Windows, have had to use Windows. Shoot, most Windows users complain about Windows. The problem is that some Windows users (ahem) will talk about how great it is without knowing much about the competition. Usable, maybe, but how many people really love XP? How many people would rather be using OS X if they could.
I do use Windows. 2000, XP, and I've used almost every other M$ OS since DOS quite extensively. Some of the Mac OS's weren't that great either, but OS X is the best OS I've ever used (though, Be is up there). XP is usable, but I can't stand it. My home built PC is 2000. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I wouldn't use Windows if I didn't have to.
And I'll bet there are a lot of PC users who feel the same way...
There are a lot of reasons. Some of them valid - price, software (including games). Some people are just used to Windows and don't want to make any big changes. But the same people that roll their eyes when I tell them to buy a Mac (many with not so valid reasons) are the ones that always call me with problems with their PCs. I'm the computer guy in the family.
The fact is that MOST of the Mac users that complain about Windows, have had to use Windows. Shoot, most Windows users complain about Windows. The problem is that some Windows users (ahem) will talk about how great it is without knowing much about the competition. Usable, maybe, but how many people really love XP? How many people would rather be using OS X if they could.
I do use Windows. 2000, XP, and I've used almost every other M$ OS since DOS quite extensively. Some of the Mac OS's weren't that great either, but OS X is the best OS I've ever used (though, Be is up there). XP is usable, but I can't stand it. My home built PC is 2000. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I wouldn't use Windows if I didn't have to.
And I'll bet there are a lot of PC users who feel the same way...
Not being able to run a lot of games and certain software is definitely understandable. But as far as price goes, i think a lot of people forget how high of a resale value Macs have. When you buy a Mac, you're making an investment. When it comes time to buy a new computer, you can easily sell the old one and get a pretty substantial amount of the money back. (I could easily still get $500 for my Graphite iBook that is over 3 years old.) So yes, I will give you that they can be expensive, though part for part, not that far off from PC's, but you'll also get a lot more for them when you sell them, than you would a PC.
I've been a PC user for most of my life and I am really well educated on computers on both platforms, but in my experience with the Windows world, I can't say I know many at all who actually like Windows or Microsoft in general. Just about everyone thinks/realizes/says that Windows sucks. For the 5 years I have been using Macs, I have hardly heard anyone say that "Mac OS sucks". It would take me half the day to get my PC working properly after a re-install, yet it can take me little more than a half hour to re-install Mac OS and be chatting, checking email, and using the internet on my network from a clean install. I switched because it was too big of a headache using my PC. It was too big of a headache after starting a PC business with my friend and both building and repairing PCs all day long only to have to go home to one. I went from loving computers to wishing I could just die from being so frustrated and tired of messing with Windows and DOS and everything else all the time. I seriously hated computers and hated life for a good two years before I just bought a PowerBook, trashed my PC, and slowly started to back out of that job. I still have to fix/upgrade/mess with Windows, but at least I can always open up my PowerBook and have a little breath of fresh air with my Mac. I would love for my parents to switch, too, but it was just too expensive getting an iMac for them compared to the Dell they ended up with. They would have had an iMac, too, but I told them they'd be better off with the Dell. Sure, it has been a PITA now and then, but I am not going to force them to switch if they can email and browse the internet with XP reasonably well.
It boils down to this: I have experience with both and I don't hate PCs, I am just finished with them. Sure, I could still get my homework done on a Dell just as easily as I can with my Apple, but I just love computers again and that is all thanks to my Mac. I don't tell other PC users that they suck or that they are idiots for using Windows. I just wish I didn't get told the same thing for using a Mac. It makes me want to scream at the guys at CompUSA sometimes whenever they have the nerve to attack my "computing character" just because I am in the Mac section looking for something. Most Mac users are intelligent and nice people. I don't see any being jackasses to PC users, so I just feel we should deserve the same respect.
It boils down to this: I have experience with both and I don't hate PCs, I am just finished with them. Sure, I could still get my homework done on a Dell just as easily as I can with my Apple, but I just love computers again and that is all thanks to my Mac. I don't tell other PC users that they suck or that they are idiots for using Windows. I just wish I didn't get told the same thing for using a Mac. It makes me want to scream at the guys at CompUSA sometimes whenever they have the nerve to attack my "computing character" just because I am in the Mac section looking for something. Most Mac users are intelligent and nice people. I don't see any being jackasses to PC users, so I just feel we should deserve the same respect.
Actually, according a MR poll a few weeks ago about 7% of the people who voted in the poll used a version of windows as their primary OS. And I'm sure that an even greater number of members here have to use PCs on a daily basis. Of course this is a Mac site so the people here are going to generally favor Macs over PC's but, like I said before, many Mac users were once, or still are PC users, so you are generally going to get a more informed discussion about PCs on a Mac board than Macs on a PC board.
Hell, I don't even own a Mac for personal use. All of my typical computer needs are serviced by my nearly 3 year old Win2k box. I've used XP but I haven't found a compelling reason to upgrade to it.
Lethal
-Mav451
The best thing you can do in your chosen education and career path is to use both - actively, side by side, so that you can have a useful breadth of knowledge that can give you the edge in your career.
Many of us here use both - myself included.
The question then that could be asked, is why do I prefer Macs - there's got to be some reason, these things aren't cheap!
This is more of a journey, than a "Yep, I solved it" sort of thing.
I really do encourage you to do it.
Secondly, I would like to ask you to work on you diplomacy a bit, you had very good points, and I agree with many, but those were obscured by emotionally charged language that most will focus on, rather than the kernels of wisdom buried beneath.
The best thing you can do in your chosen education and career path is to use both - actively, side by side, so that you can have a useful breadth of knowledge that can give you the edge in your career.
Many of us here use both - myself included.
The question then that could be asked, is why do I prefer Macs - there's got to be some reason, these things aren't cheap!
This is more of a journey, than a "Yep, I solved it" sort of thing.
I really do encourage you to do it.
Secondly, I would like to ask you to work on you diplomacy a bit, you had very good points, and I agree with many, but those were obscured by emotionally charged language that most will focus on, rather than the kernels of wisdom buried beneath.
Are you taking creative writing 101 or something or did a computer really make you hate life? You either need a tutor or a shrink!
What am i doing wrong on my iBook where it takes me well over an hour to do a clean install? AND it does NOT take half a day to install windows or xp and have it running correctly.
I think you got a bad iBook.
It only took me about an hour each to have both my Mom's iBook and my friend's iMac up and running. And that was just because I wanted them both to have clean installs (Mom's iBook was second hand). When I installed OS 10.2 on Mom's old school 400 MHz G3 (literally, it was for her school, that's why she got the iBook. Her new Sony XP at home had SO many issues. My stepdad just had to get a PC) it was so quick and painless. My sister hasn't had a single problem with her dual 867 G4 she bought last year.
Don't get me started on my various Windows issues, install and otherwise. Your experiances may vary, but I have been starting to hate Windows more and more over the years. Sure it's just a tool, but a tool I want to just work when it should. I've used XP. A lot. I have to use it at work, too. That's why my home PC is Win2000. It still sucks, but it's better than 98SE or ME.
I would never say any Windows OS is better than 10.2 (and .3, from what I've seen). No matter how much you hack the heck out of it. Macs aren't perfect, but yeah, we think it's better than Windows. That's why we come here!
That, and because I'm actually excited about what's coming next for Apple. PCs, too, hardware is hardware. But to a lesser extent. Longhorn anyone?
Edit: of course, I haven't used 10.2.8 yet. No one ever said Apple was perfect.
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