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I would never buy a consumer line product from Dell like the XPS but I would buy a Buisness line computer again like the Dell Precision 4800/6800,3800 that has everything the XPS 15 has but with 3 years of Free Technical support and next day in home service . All support for this model is handled by agents in the state of Florida.
 
You must be an investor... very convincing.
RMBP doesn't need a battery saving IGZO display because the software saves 3 times more power than windows.

Red herring. RMBP could do good with an IGZO display to complement the software. It could help save even MORE power!

People need to get out of the mindset that they should upgrade their computer. Simply sell it and buy a replacement, it's much more economical, especially with an Apple computer and buy the storage you need in the first place.

Again get out of the ridiculous mindset that you need to upgrade your computer over time, either get what you need from the beginning or sell your computer and buy a new one when you need more.

Oftentimes upgrading a hard drive for no more than a hundred bucks is much better than replacing. No need to spend 2k 3k just to get storage upgraded or RAM upgraded.

The top of the line rMBP maxed out had imo horrible resale values. A $2799 2012 machine sold for 1300..... that is ridiculous.

You can get a 1TB SSD with the new MacBook Pro 15", that's more storage than any configuration the dell would have.

1TB Hard drives are out there. There are hybrid harddrives, and oh so many SSDs that anyone has access to and can easily upgrade on their own, without paying ridiculous prices for proprietary SSD.


Apple computers are not more expensive than other computers. Apple makes the least expensive computers in the world in each class.

How many laptops sell for 3K? Now if your saying assuming with a maxed out model that the additional $1,500 is worth the additional battery life and the machine... thats something else. There is an Apple premium, they are certainly not the least expensive class for class.

The XPS 15" is not a better value. It costs 10 times more than the Apple in the long run.

In the long run, whenver someone runs out of storage, they upgrade the hard drive. RAM failure, upgrade the RAM. How many third party companies make SSDs compatible with the Retina Macbook Pro? At this moment for Haswell MBP, none. With the 2012, OWC only had ~500GB drive, thats it. Even that isnt usable anymore by the current Haswell MBP. Assuming you had a 2012 retina macbook pro and wanted 768GB, go to ebay and pay $700+ for someone elses? thats gonna save a lot of money in the long run all right....
 
So basically you've just come here to convince us all that Dells > Apples, is that it Starfyre? I don't think you'll win. I love my OC'd gaming PC, and I love my Apples, but you wouldn't catch me recommending a Dell to anyone I actually cared about.
 
So basically you've just come here to convince us all that Dells > Apples, is that it Starfyre? I don't think you'll win. I love my OC'd gaming PC, and I love my Apples, but you wouldn't catch me recommending a Dell to anyone I actually cared about.

I browse both Windows and OSX forums and I find that Mac users are way more insecure about their choices and can be easily offended.
 
I don't own an XPS but I did sell my 2012 13" MacBook Air back in July for a Dell Inspiron 15 laptop. I wanted something cheaper since all I do is browse the internet and do schoolwork which mostly requires Windows. After a few months, I'm going back to Mac. Windows 8 is horrible. Sure the speed of the OS has increased slightly but the interface is garbage. The Metro UI is completely useless and since my laptop isn't a touchscreen there isn't a need for it. I do have a Start menu app installed but there are some things where using Metro is necessary. Not to mention I miss the build quality of my MacBook's and I think they are worth the extra cost.
 
I browse both Windows and OSX forums and I find that Mac users are way more insecure about their choices and can be easily offended.

I own both machines, and browse both forums as well. I've found that Mac users can be insecure and pretty myopic, but PC enthusiasts are much more dogmatic and "intolerant" if you will. PC enthusiasts are the religious extremists of the electronics world. ;)
 
I've been debating between the 2 myself and ultimately bought a MBP for 5 reasons:

1. I have OS X programs I'd miss and Apple generously installs iWork, iLife for free on new computers.
2. The MBP has a 1 TB PCIE SSD option. I'm already using almost my entire 256 gb SSD and have felt restrained. The Dell maxes out at 512gb and that SSD is actually way slower (~500 mb/s r/w vs ~800) although it's possible that it isn't noticeable in normal use scenarios. Future SSDs won't really improve on this though because the problem is SATA itself.
3. The MBP has a quite faster CPU option in the 4960HQ (just released last month).
4. Support tends to be with fewer headaches for Apple and they're a more proven horse as fas laptops go.
5. Price is actually very similar. With an educational discount, you actually don't even pay more for a similarly configured MBP and the MBP will have slightly faster components.

However, I ended up canceling my MBP order while I figure out some throttling and TDP questions. It's no use having a faster CPU if it can't run at max performance due to insufficient power.
 
So basically you've just come here to convince us all that Dells > Apples, is that it Starfyre? I don't think you'll win.

I consider it a win if I get a Retina Macbook Pro, which like I said before, I am leaning towards. Its just that the Dell XPS 15 is giving me second thoughts, hence the hopes for me to be convinced otherwise.
 
I consider it a win if I get a Retina Macbook Pro, which like I said before, I am leaning towards. Its just that the Dell XPS 15 is giving me second thoughts, hence the hopes for me to be convinced otherwise.

I faced the same dilemma a few weeks ago when I read the first Dell XPS review for the new models. As I'm sure I said earlier, I chose a refurbished rMBP. After 25 years with PCs and finding the computers physically failing to hold up (my esteemed Lenovo ThinkPad T500 developed hairline cracks in both palm rests), plus seeing the super build qualities of my iPhone 4s and iPad 3, I decided to make the change. Having several months with Windows 8 only aided the decision.

After almost a month with my MacBook, I'll be surprised to find myself back with a PC.
 
I consider it a win if I get a Retina Macbook Pro, which like I said before, I am leaning towards. Its just that the Dell XPS 15 is giving me second thoughts, hence the hopes for me to be convinced otherwise.

If you're not super tightly constrained by budget, go with whichever is more enjoyable to use. Personally, the UX of OS X and (for me) the design of the machine are worth a certain premium. My experience with Macs has been that while they don't necessarily beat every PC in the price/performance game, they do beat nearly everything in UX and reliability - including my handbuilt PC's, which I trust infinitely more than one assembled be Dell. Not that Dell is awful in general, their monitors can be nice.
 
Lots of reasons not to choose the Dell

Con
1. Its a dell. it will be worth less than the Mac 3 years from now.
2. Windows 8 is simply horrible. It scales the display inconsistently. It multitasks worse than OSX. It has a bi-polar user interface.
3. I've never used a PC laptop with a trackpad that works well, and none that work as well as Apple's
4. Windows power management is poor compared to a Mac
5. VMware costs $249 vs $70 on a Mac


Pros
1. upgradeable RAM and SSD, possibly more than 1 SSD, slight price savings.

Overall, I'd prefer the m3800 workstation laptop. What I really want is a 13" laptop with a 2560x1440 or better screen with a quad core haswell with Iris 5200 graphics, at least 16GB RAM, and dual SSD interfaces. NO ONE MAKES SUCH A BEAST.
 
I faced the same dilemma a few weeks ago when I read the first Dell XPS review for the new models. As I'm sure I said earlier, I chose a refurbished rMBP. After 25 years with PCs and finding the computers physically failing to hold up (my esteemed Lenovo ThinkPad T500 developed hairline cracks in both palm rests), plus seeing the super build qualities of my iPhone 4s and iPad 3, I decided to make the change. Having several months with Windows 8 only aided the decision.

After almost a month with my MacBook, I'll be surprised to find myself back with a PC.

Interesting that your Lenovo developed hairline cracks along the palm rests. My MacBook Air developed hairline cracks at the entire panel in front of my eyes.
 
Con
1. Its a dell. it will be worth less than the Mac 3 years from now.
That's a straw man argument. The proper metric is total cost of ownership (TCO). Ignoring the upfront cost makes no sense.

2. Windows 8 is simply horrible. It scales the display inconsistently. It multitasks worse than OSX. It has a bi-polar user interface.
Those are subjective opinions. There are plenty of people who love it.

3. I've never used a PC laptop with a trackpad that works well, and none that work as well as Apple's
Apple trackpads are quite good, but that doesn't mean that others aren't adequate.

4. Windows power management is poor compared to a Mac
Anand disagrees with you. His review of the XPS15 noted that Apple's batteries are higher capacity, but that, "Since the XPS 15 is designed to run Windows from the ground up, there isn’t a problem with lack of power optimizations, and the result is competitive battery life."

5. VMware costs $249 vs $70 on a Mac
This is another straw man argument, since the #1 reason people buy virtualization on Macs is to run Windows. The segment of people who need additional/supplemental Windows or Linux VMs is actually quite small, and again, if you factor in the upfront cost difference, this price difference still makes the TCO numbers not competitive.

Enough kool-aid, people. (It's no coincidence to me that auto-correct keeps turning that into "kook-aid.)
 
You must be an investor... very convincing.

I'm actually a product designer...


Red herring. RMBP could do good with an IGZO display to complement the software. It could help save even MORE power!

But that doesn't matter we're comparing two real computers not a theoretical computer against a real one. Apple will probably start using IGZO technology in the next 1-3 refreshes based on rumors. The whole point of IGZO technology is that it improves certain aspects of a computer, if those aspects are inferior in the end than it's irrelevant what technology you use It's the results that matter. That was my point.


Oftentimes upgrading a hard drive for no more than a hundred bucks is much better than replacing. No need to spend 2k 3k just to get storage upgraded or RAM upgraded.

You're not going to upgrade the hard drive for a hundred bucks. Those times are long in the past and completely ridiculous.

Dell's Hybrid SSD is also a joke as per their own marketing graphs:

sshd-graph.jpg



That's only twice as fast. A regular SSD is around 10 times as fast and a PCI-E SSD is around 17 times as fast as an HDD.

If you want a computer that is anything but ridiculously slow you need an SSD. No hybrid solution works well, even with Apple's fusion drive which is the best there is for a hybrid solution I get better results by splitting up the volumes and managing it manually.

SSD upgrades cost several hundred bucks and it will be cheaper just to sell your computer and buy a different one.

The top of the line rMBP maxed out had imo horrible resale values. A $2799 2012 machine sold for 1300..... that is ridiculous.

I have no idea where you found that info out but you didn't do your research. No maxed out rMBP has ever sold for $1,300 in good working condition from a seller who isn't an obvious scammer or fake listing. I would know because I carefully researched the market before selling mine.

1TB Hard drives are out there. There are hybrid harddrives, and oh so many SSDs that anyone has access to and can easily upgrade on their own, without paying ridiculous prices for proprietary SSD.

Again stop trying to upgrade your computer, you're not going to be able to upgrade the Dell XPS 15 either, it doesn't have enough hard drive bays to keep a full SSD as your primary drive, and get an extra HDD with decent space.

You will get to pick between having a horribly slow computer and paying a few hundred for a large SSD, or nothing.

It will be much cheaper to Buy a $2800 MacBook Pro Retina 15 with 512GB of Storage then in 1.5 years sell it for $2000 and buy another one off eBay for $2300 with 1TB of storage when that model depreciates.

Otherwise what you will do is buy a Dell XPS 15" Sell the 512GB SSD for $190 and spend $650 to get a 1TB SSD.

$460 is more than $300.

The markup on refurbished Blade SSD's is also really low, only $100 over a regular SSD for the same size. Considering the much better resale value of the Mac you will be much better off in the end.




How many laptops sell for 3K? Now if your saying assuming with a maxed out model that the additional $1,500 is worth the additional battery life and the machine... thats something else. There is an Apple premium, they are certainly not the least expensive class for class.

They are the least expensive machines to own over time. That was the entire point of my argument there. Think about it, if you spend $2200 now and then sell it for $1500 in 2 years, it cost you $700. If you buy for $2000 and sell for $600, it cost you $1,400. The COST of something is it's total price, (buying - selling) / time.



In the long run, whenver someone runs out of storage, they upgrade the hard drive. RAM failure, upgrade the RAM. How many third party companies make SSDs compatible with the Retina Macbook Pro? At this moment for Haswell MBP, none. With the 2012, OWC only had ~500GB drive, thats it. Even that isnt usable anymore by the current Haswell MBP. Assuming you had a 2012 retina macbook pro and wanted 768GB, go to ebay and pay $700+ for someone elses? thats gonna save a lot of money in the long run all right....


You don't seem to understand that if you sell a used computer you can buy a used computer with a better warranty in better condition for a similar price. The last gen 768GB Retina is selling for only $200 more than the 512GB one on average.

If you find you need 768GB down the line just sell and buy.

I've done this literally dozens of times, in fact I get a new iMac, a new Retina Macbook and a new Macbook Air every single refresh and I only spend $600 per year on 3 computers. I usually get the mid spec model for both the iMac, MacBook Air and MacBook Retina 15" but I've gone from low to mid to high spec in one year (first year of the Retina) just to upgrade to see what it was like. Often it cost me only $100 to flip from one used computer to another.


I've restored my current 3 versions of OS X operating system countless times onto new or used computers to the point where i've got it set up to only take 8 minutes.

You seem to be stuck in this insane concept that it is infinitely more expensive to own a non-upgradeable computer than an upgradeable one. This is not true in any sense of the word, with Apple computers. I've built countess computers and NOT upgrading Apple ones costs me a fraction of what it costs me to upgrade computers from any other brand.

So why don't you do this, get a Dell XPS 15, and let's see how much you spend over the long run and how satisfied you are. :)
 
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I see we're deep in "there can be only one" territory here. Isn't it time for the internet to grow up a little? (editor's note: wait, am I successfully growing up if I'm making those kinds of comments?)

The XPS 15 is clearly a solid rMBP competitor. It's definitely ahead in some areas (IGZO, touch screen). This is not a debate; these things are true.

Don't make your purchase decisions based on the group consensus of the "best" piece of hardware. More importantly, don't take to the internet trying to convince others that your choice was "better."

Assess your needs vs. the features of the devices in question.
-Do you want a touch screen (contrary to popular opinion here, this is not stupid)?
-Do you prefer Windows, and more importantly does the software you need for productivity work on Windows or Linux? Again contrary to common local beliefs, Windows has been a very solid OS since Win 7. Some.. questionable choices were made with the UI in 8, but I can promise you the days of "game over, reinstall" and the BSOD ended with 7.
-Do you prefer 16:9 (for video, gaming, or working in two windows side-by-side)?
-Are battery life and screen brightness top priorities?

If this describes you, take a serious look at the XPS 15. Personally I'd wait for it to launch and some reviews to appear (especially Anandtech) since it's essentially 1st gen (like the rMBP was last year), but everything I've seen so far makes it look like a great machine.

I think Dell is going to be a company to watch in the laptop market from now own, with its founder taking the company private. This is honestly a great thing; the Windows laptop market has been defined by poor quality cheap machines for as long as I can remember and it'd be great to see a premium Windows laptop manufacturer step up and give Apple some serious competition.

On the other hand:
-Do you prefer OS X or have OS X only software you need to run?
-Do you prefer 16:10 (for more physical vertical space in single-window work)?
-Is Apple's in-store support valuable to you? There's no question this is a big selling point for many users.
-Do you have concerns about being an early adopter (of IGZO, or Dell's first attempt at Apple-quality build)?
-Is PCIe SSD valuable to your productivity (this is a very specific set of users but I'm certain there are some here who feel this is true)?
-Are you an every year upgrader? Resale value on Apple laptops can be quite good if you avoid too many high end BTO options.

I could probably continue adding things to both lists, but I think the point is made. Look at your needs. Look at the options. Discuss. Make a decision. Stop trying to convince others your decision is "better."

I picked the rMBP. I'm a 16:10 holdout, I've become fond of OS X since I got my 17" MBP in 2010, and I may sell and upgrade next year if I can get a decent price (again to whatever suits my needs best at the time). I have also generally had very good experiences dealing with Apple, while I have no experience dealing with Dell. If Dell's new rMBP-like XPS line proves itself this year, it may be a difficult decision next year (though it'd still be hard to let go of 16:10).

I am very interested to see Anandtech's take on both machines, since you clearly can't review one without comparing it to the other this year.
 
Added in important information (in Red)

Dell XPS 15, launched earlier than Apple on October 18th and has a build quality that is not "cheap" like other computers, and is priced pretty high compared to everyone but Apple.

Besides the Operating System....

Dell XPS 15 Pros - Ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rq0BTkgF-k
- Machined aluminum (like rMBP) with Carbon Fiber
- Battery Saving HiRes IGZO 3200 x 1800 display, which the rMBPs do not have And windows's scaling/resolution problems)
- 11 hour battery life, which rMBPs have only 7 at 15 inch If you actually believe what the manufacturer tells you.
- Touch Screen
(Windows 8, 8.1 can be fail... but if future OS supports better functionality with Touchscreens, XPS 15's got it. Apple will most likely one day succeed in their goal of fusing more of the iOS experience with OSX... but rMBP has no touchscreen, will have to replace someday if this ever happens)
- Upgradable RAM and SSD
(rMBP only can upgrade SSD, which for Apple is proprietary)
- Brighter screen and display than rMBP at about 400 nits
(rMBP can only go up to 300%, Anandtech studies have determined the screen to be around 20% dimmer,why its not 25%, don't ask me ask anandtech, but the point is.. its dimmer)
- Lighter than rMBP at 4.44 pounds versus 4.46 (rMBP is heavier)If you can distinguish the 10g difference kudos to you
- Thinner than rMBP at 0.70'' versus 0.71'' (rMBP is a smidge negligibly thicker, and the Dell XPS is upgradable and the rMBP is not?)Get me a set of calipers!
- Cheaper SSDs for the future!
(even though they are slightly slower than the PCIe SSDs of the rMBP... no manufacturer has made an Apple compatible SSD yet, while there are plenty of options to choose from with the Dell... Dell can even use a Hard Drive and SSD Hybrid! Unlike rMBP..stuck with Apple proprietary.. even the ~500GB OWC drives made to be compatible with the non-Haswell rMBPs are no longer compatible... unless you used it as an external drive with a $150 enclosure? come on... really)

Retina Macbook Pro Pros - 2012 Ad (sans 2013): www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq-ZwegiRIU
- You get to pay the Apple premium?
(as opposed to Dell, which is priced like a non-retina macbook pro. as an aside, i used to think how the Apple premium for the 2012 rMBPs definitely supported Apple exclusivity... but with this new release, theres no classic 15, the rMBP becomes the standard. this means practically every Apple user with a Pro in the near future is going to be a retina. Not only that, as some forum users have pointed out, the pricing is "cheaper", but forces you to pay more for a dedicated card, which is okay, but then again, the XPS 15's got a premium too, less of a premium... but better than rMBP in certain areas... especially the retina part of its name)
- Iris Pro
(best integrated card, supposed to save battery, but funny enough, Dell did a better job in optimizing the battery life with discrete card only compared to Apple with both of them in the system. Your probably going to game or use 750m anyway more than Iris Pro as 750m beats out Iris Pro anyday, just "less power", which is meaningless based on the aforementioned)
- PCIe SSD (but Dell does have SSD)Which matters only in transferring large files across the same drive. Random performance is pretty much the same.

The rMBP might put less strain on the graphics card because of its lower resolution than the XPS 15, but really, all signs point to the XPS 15 as the best value, build quality, and more.

People may say the Dell XPS 15 used to suck, and it did, being grossly overweight (5+ pounds... ouch) and just a poor attempt to rip off parts of Apple design, but through multiple iterations, it looks like Dell's one, no, multi-upped Apple this time around and made a machine that is definitely made to compete and beat.

I am struggling to determine why I should get the Haswell Retina Macbook Pro, as much as I want to, but the research and the specs seems to want me to get the Dell XPS 15 instead... please help!

Believe me, I have had multiple dell products and the results have been disturbing

Inspiron core 2 duo 6400 series- Still running good though limited with 1 GB RAM (ton of programs installed makes it slow).

XPS 15 (LX502)-Overheating turd with fraying power cord (could literally see the copper wire had to duct tape it), poor battery (55% health after a year despite putting only a few cycles on it). Dell locks you to their drivers so 3 years down the road you are going to be using the release driver or a refresh driver (6 mo after launch) for the lifetime of the device. Latest driver for the LX502 is from march 2012.

Inspiron 15 SE - Random problems (slow, glitchy, boots with all user settings gone-fixed with reboot). Battery died and had to be replaced under warranty. AMD drivers with dell's restricted bios are a nightmare.

The newer XPS 15 (2013) had horrible throttling and wifi issues.

This newer model may change things but I'm going to have to see a lot of reviews for it to convince me.
 
This newer model may change things but I'm going to have to see a lot of reviews for it to convince me.

This right here is probably a big point for a lot of people who are on the fence. Dell's going to have to prove they're serious about matching Apple on build quality and support. I believe their intentions are to really back up the claims, but I'd like to see it in effect before I'd take a chance.
 
This is an awesome thread. I would request an improvement to make this thread even more useful -

Can everyone posting their Dell/Apple stories also qualify their post by mentioning which model, year they owned?

Thank you.
 
It will be much cheaper to Buy a $2800 MacBook Pro Retina 15 with 512GB of Storage then in 1.5 years sell it for $2000 and buy another one off eBay for $2300 with 1TB of storage when that model depreciates.
....
I've done this literally dozens of times, in fact I get a new iMac, a new Retina Macbook and a new Macbook Air every single refresh and I only spend $600 per year on 3 computers. I usually get the mid spec model for both the iMac, MacBook Air and MacBook Retina 15" but I've gone from low to mid to high spec in one year (first year of the Retina) just to upgrade to see what it was like. Often it cost me only $100 to flip from one used computer to another.

I wanted to chime in specifically on this point. Like you, I am a serial flipper. It can be extremely cost economical. It's also a bit time intensive and a pain if you don't enjoy it (I personally do, but a lot of people don't).

Anyway, the best bang for your buck is almost always sticking with base models, as the depreciation curve is flatter for them. I think it's a bit speculative to suggest getting $2000 for a 512GB model 18 months down the road, even assuming it has AppleCare on it. That's not to say it's not possible, but since one could buy the previous model with 16GB/512GB today for $2300 as a close-out, brand new in the box, the odds ain't great. That said, there is a sucker born every minute, and they all make their way to Craiglist eventually, so your mileage may vary.
 
It's NOT machined Aluminum, it's stamped Aluminum with some machining, which is nowhere near the same quality. The build quality is incredibly terrible on the XPS 15 in comparison. Apple makes their machines out of solid blocks of aluminum that have laser cut sections. There is no comparison between these two construction techniques. This is the highest quality and strongest manufacturing process available. Dell uses a cheap imitation of this process, that is 4-5 times weaker structurally. The carbon fiber is also a mass produced flat sheet that costs cents, with no custom forming whatsoever. It's just bought in massive sheets for a few dollars and then cut to size. It's insultingly cheap and also incredibly tacky and literally screwed onto the top cover, it would look better without it.

I've had computers made with the machined aluminum like Dell use. Being dropped from a few feet the entire cased cracked. Dropping my macbook in the exact same situation from the same desk just resulted in a small dent. Cheap manufacturers use cheap brittle aluminum that cracks with the smallest amount of force. It's really misleading because it's not the durable material you think you're getting. Dell and HP use the same aluminum alloy that hotwheels uses for their toys, which is 6061, and it's not made from solid blocks but sintered, which means it's made from a powder that is melted together and full of structural weaknesses inside every inch. This is around 4-5 times weaker than the 2024-T3 alloy which comes from a solid block.

Sintered 6061 is held together a lot like a sugar cookie and it's very brittle in the same way. It has a tensile strength of around 40 MPa if they use a high quality process. 2024 has a tensile strength of 220 MPa.

Give me any reference to back this up. How do you know the new XPS15/M3800 has powdered aluminum. Big statement there. You even invoked hotwheels. Give me anything to factcheck that.

Also, the Carbon Fiber on the XPS15/M3800 is not cut out of sheets. It is 3D formed with reinforcements all over it. Carbon fiber protects from heat in notebooks just like it does in motorcycle mufflers. It is not some kind of gimmick or sticker. It is a very strong material that keeps heat away from users.

While you are at it, how about telling me why Apple has not issued a recall of HDD connectors in MacBook Pros. They are failing all over the place. Yet Apple won't recall or fix it.


RMBP doesn't need a battery saving IGZO display because the software saves 3 times more power than windows. Also the display is uncalibrated which meant it will be unusable by creative professionals and look incredibly terrible.

Image

Here's an example of a conservative comparison of the problem.

Really? You are saying that MBPs come fully calibrated from Foxconn? You are saying Windows systems can't be calibrated?

The panel on XPS 15/M3800 is very good out of the box. It calibrates with an average Delta of 1. One. And it has more pixels that the rMBP.

You are misleading people here. They will believe you because you change your text all over the place.

Also, the IGZO panel on the M3800 is not bad even without calibration. It uses 35% less power and has at least as wide of a gamut, contrast ratio, and 25% more brightness.

This is a complete utter and total lie in every sense of the word.

The XPS has a 4 hours 58 minute battery life doing light web browsing, with the i7 processor. You can expect well under 4 if you're doing anything more with the i7. The 11 hours is measured with the i3 doing extremely simple tasks at very low brightness which is designed to mislead consumers. If fuel economy tests were done by Dell then the Prius would get 5 million miles per gallon.

Apple gives real world battery usage figures, not made up lies, and most tests actually exceed Apple's quoted battery life. However when Dell's battery life quotes are tested the real life figures are usually half of what Dell's are.

The Verge clocked The MacBook Pro Retina 15" with the i7 at 9 hours and 35 minutes in it's real world battery test. That's 37% better than quoted. That same test showed that all Dell laptops get HALF the battery life dell quoted. For example the Dell XPS 14 is quoted at 10 hours of battery life, but The Verge was only able to get 6 in their standard test, and that's with a super high efficiency low voltage "u" processor in the XPS 14. With a high powered i7 processor like in the MacBook Pro 15" you're looking at 5 hours on the Dell versus 9.5 hours on the Mac. Dell misleads, plain and simple.

Where are you getting these battery life numbers? From reviews of the OLD XPS 15? You do realize that the new XPS 15/M3800 is not out yet. The only reviews are from people like me that got access to early release machines.

You say that battery life is a complete and utter lie. Guess what, even with the 6 cell battery, I get over 5 hours of real world battery life. I can't wait to see what the 9 cell batteries do.


Replacing a MacBook is not expensive, they hold their value well, unlike PC's.



Apple sells RAM upgrades at a price that is so low this is a non issue. It's actually cheaper to get an Apple ram upgrade than it would ever be to get a Dell with more ram. It's $200 for 16GB, I spent more than that getting 16GB of high quality ram on sale to upgrade my Mac Mini.

Meanwhile other people are paying $150 for high quality RAM.


Screen brightness is irrelevant if the screen is unusable by a professional due to lack of calibration. And don't suggest calibrating the screen with a $100 tool, The cheap tools don't work properly, I've purchased 6 calibration tools under $500 and none worked even remotely well, you need a $5,000 tool which I own just for that purpose. The brightness difference might matter but both are acceptable.

Edit: White dragon mentioned that the new Haswell MBP is 20% brighter according to laptopmag, see his post slightly below.

You are lying to people. The MBP does not come calibrated from the factory.

You do not need $5000 in calibration tools to improve Windows or Mac screens. You need a sub $500 Spyder 4 Elite system.

The IGZO panel in the XPS 15/M3800 is probably closer to calibrated that the eRMB panel. Will actually test them in the next few days. Get your excuses ready.

Actually Dell lies about this too. That .70 is measuring without the feet. The MacBook Pro Retina 15" is .69 without the feet, the Dell is .75 with the feet. The MacBook also has a thicker shell which is more durable, and again the upgrades don't matter because unlike it's upgradable computers like the cMBP or iMac Apple heavily subsidized all non-upgradable parts to the point where they sell them near cost. For example 16GB of ram is $200, you'd pay around that price if you wanted to upgrade it yourself. I paid $220 to upgrade my Mac Mini to 16gb with high quality laptop ram.

Got lost there. I have compared rMBP notebooks sitting on a solid surface with the XPS 15/M3800. Guess which one is thicker - feet and all. Neither, they are the same 1.8 CM.

Then you go back to RAM costing $200 from Apple when it should cost $150.

People need to get out of the mindset that they should upgrade their computer. Simply sell it and buy a replacement, it's much more economical, especially with an Apple computer and buy the storage you need in the first place.






You can get a 1TB SSD with the new MacBook Pro 15", that's more storage than any configuration the dell would have. Again get out of the ridiculous mindset that you need to upgrade your computer over time, either get what you need from the beginning or sell your computer and buy a new one when you need more.

No mention of price.

The Dell can do 1.5tb of storage.

Really? Buy a new COMPUTER when you run out of storage? Just upgrade the drive.


Apple computers are not more expensive than other computers. Apple makes the least expensive computers in the world in each class.

Example. I purchased the most one of the fastest Dell XPS laptops that money could buy 2.5 years ago and sold it after 13 months. I bought it for $2300. I sold it for $700

That's a loss of $1600.

A year ago I purchased a mid level MacBook Pro 15" with a $200 corporate discount. I paid $2600 WITH tax. I sold it for $2373 11 months later.

That's a loss of $227. The Dell cost me nearly 10 times more than MacBook cost me.

2 years ago I purchased a new MacBook Air for $1670 with the corporate discount, I sold it 5 months later for $1590, that's $80 for 5 months usage.

I also purchased a used MacBook Air 3 years ago for $810. 2 years go I sold it for $850, that's a profit of $40.


All non-Apple computers depreciate extremely severely, Apple computers do not depreciate very much at all. This is also why it's better to simply sell an Apple computer and get one with different specs instead of upgrading. With a non-Apple computer you have to upgrade, with an Apple computer you can sell yours and buy a different one for way less than it costs to upgrade an old computer.

Yeah, not seeing the cheapest notebook anywhere there. Unless I want to buy it and sell it, and hope that someone buys it for what I am asking.

Show me the cheapest computer made by Apple for a first time buyer in ANY category. Seriously. Show me ANY Apple that is cheapest to buy. I will show you 5 models that are cheaper in ANY category and outperform the Apple.

AGAIN, Dell did not optimize a dedicated card better than Apple did with graphics switching, this is absolutely silly. What Dell did is they mislead consumers with bogus battery life claims based on ridiculously impossible testing criteria. Apple's MacBooks Pro Retina 15" has TWICE the battery life of the XPS 15" Pro.

Give me anything to back up what you are saying. A test? Personal experience? You are just making stuff up here.

There's a huge noticeable difference in speed.

Increase in speed in software built for Quadro graphics?

This is a completely incorrect conclusion in every way.

I agree. You cite zero sources. You just rant and rave and defend Apple. How about some verified and cited statements?

The XPS 15" is not a better value. It costs 10 times more than the Apple in the long run. It's build quality isn't on the same planet and it has that cheaply tacked on carbon fiber and the lowest quality extremely brittle aluminum, and it is worse in literally every category. Worse battery life, professionally unusable screen with poor colors, tacky design, much much louder annoying fans, and a terrible warranty that will leave you stranded without a computer for a long time while dell fixes things (Apple has guaranteed turn around, and can fix things in a local store, which is a huge advantage if you can't be without a computer).

You are just rattling off your own *************. You don't back anything up with a source. You have never seen an XPS 15. You have never heard an XPS 15 fan. You have never seen the QHD+ screen on the XPS 15. You don't even know what you are talking about.

Guess what. I know what I am talking about. The screen on the XPS 15 is perfect for Pros. The colors have an average Delta of less than 1 - go goole that. The fans are quiet. Dell won't make you send your system into a depot for a repair.

We can argue about the design. Maybe highly formed and molded carbon fiber is tacky. Maybe insulating heat from your lap is interior to Apple making sure you don't have kids with the aluminum bottom.

Simply put you are extremely naive and were misled by slick marketing to think that a poorly made piece of junk is better than the highest quality laptop on the market. It's not. You basically did the equivalent of seeing that Ford ad where they try to make the Focus look better than a BMW M3, and then concluded: Man I should really get a Ford Focus, it's so much better!

Simply put, you love Apple and I respect that. I am not going to say you are naive or misled my slick marketing to think an Apple MPB is the highest quality laptop on the market. It is not. You made the mistake of thinking an Apple made at Foxconn is better than a Dell made at Foxconn. It all comes down to the engineers that make them and the materials they build them with. I use rMBPs. I buy them for my staff. I also am using a Dell M3800 that shares a lot with the XPS 15. It is a quality system.

You should be worried. The world you know is changing. Hopefully next year, Apple will upgrade their panels from 2880x1800 to 3200x1800.

With all due respect...
 
- No matter how many SSDs you change on the XPS you will always have inferior performance than rMBP because XPS is limited by the SATA controller. Although as my friend mentioned above, for smaller files might be the same.
- It doesn't matter if XPS is a tiny bit thinner because rMBP is WAY smaller in width.
- The screen doesn't make a difference. If someone thinks it does than he/she is a marketing victim. MacOSX re-scales sizes by default. If you don't rescale the fonts and the widgets you just can't work. OK, that might not be true for some people with.. "hawk-eyes" :p
- If you need more than 16GB then u are doing something wrong. Get a desktop.
- I will not comment on the operating system. MacOSX is of course inferior to Linux. But you can install whatever OS you want on rMBP.

Having said that, I just bought my first apple product ever. I am an "apple-hater" but rMBP was the only option in my case. :p

edit: and of course rMBP's price is ridiculous :p
 
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I consider it a win if I get a Retina Macbook Pro, which like I said before, I am leaning towards. Its just that the Dell XPS 15 is giving me second thoughts, hence the hopes for me to be convinced otherwise.

Go buy it and tell us what you think. If you don't like it just return it.
 
Here's how I see it:
Biggest rMBP advantages:
Higher maximum configuration performance (with a hefty price tag to match)
OS X programs are better optimised for scaling at the moment
PCIe Storage is faster

Biggest XPS 15 advantages:
Better screen (resolution, touch, probably brightness)
Much more repairable by the user
Cheaper

We will have to wait and see about the battery life. Dell advertises 11 hours under the follow test conditions: 150 nits of screen brightness, surfing with wifi. The 2012 rMBP was tested under these conditions by notebookcheck (with one potential difference being how often pages are refreshed). The rMBP got 6 hours of battery life, while the advertised battery life was 7 hours. We'll have to wait and see how they both deliver under identical circumstances by an unbiased and competent reviewer, but it seems like it will either be close or in the Dell's favour.
 
XPS 15 (LX502)-Overheating turd with fraying power cord (could literally see the copper wire had to duct tape it), poor battery (55% health after a year despite putting only a few cycles on it). Dell locks you to their drivers so 3 years down the road you are going to be using the release driver or a refresh driver (6 mo after launch) for the lifetime of the device. Latest driver for the LX502 is from march 2012.

Inspiron 15 SE - Random problems (slow, glitchy, boots with all user settings gone-fixed with reboot). Battery died and had to be replaced under warranty. AMD drivers with dell's restricted bios are a nightmare.

The newer XPS 15 (2013) had horrible throttling and wifi issues.

This newer model may change things but I'm going to have to see a lot of reviews for it to convince me.

The M3800 (an XPS 15 with a Quadro card) has already been tested by Bokeh. The last generation of rMBPs could reach a CPU temperature of around 100 degrees Celsius. There is little reason to expect improvements on this front. The max TDP has been increased from 45W to 47W without any apparent changes to the cooling. In the M3800 the CPU temperature maxes out in the 80s. Not surprising that cooling would be improved by completely changing the chassis, and adding an extra fan. The XPS 15 also uses a CPU with a max TDP of 37W. We'll see how this affects performance, especially if there is throttling on the rMBP's front.

Also, last years rMBP was throttled by the fact that the power supply wasn't powerful enough.
 
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