Are you going to get a M3800 or M4800? I am thinking about getting one over the RMBP's but I still haven't made the call yet
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Why would anyone buy a Retina Macbook Pro vs Dell XPS 15?
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Are you going to get a M3800 or M4800? I am thinking about getting one over the RMBP's but I still haven't made the call yet
Radiating has to be one of the most arrogant trolls I've ever had the displeasure of coming across on the net. Not only that but his post is full of completely false statements. theotherbokeh covered most of the inaccuracies (by the way I've really enjoyed reading your XPS15 preview on NBR so thanks for answering all our questions).
People always make the same complaints. Apple has never been much of a leader in specs. They may release a couple things here and there, but it is software and reliability that makes Apple professional. They target the public as a whole and not an individual sector. A typical person may not care about 2880 VS 3000 resolution.
Be ready for piss poor results on a poorly optimized operating system. Bigger battery does not mean longer lasting. The IGZO may give it a little edge.
Plus, Windows 8 is awful.
Mavericks is packed with features and has great battery life.
This post is coming from a huge Microsoft fan. I have always been a supporter of Microsoft and PCs. Windows 8 was the last straw for me.
Where are you pulling the build quality from? Apple charges higher premiums and has the money to ensure that their product is top notch. A lot of companies cut corners and have a bigger threshold for errors. Don't be sad when an XPS 15 craps out on you because of heat failure or ram/SSD. Apple thought to cut corners once switching to LG and look what happened?
Be ready for piss poor results on a poorly optimized operating system. Bigger battery does not mean longer lasting. The IGZO may give it a little edge.
Plus, Windows 8 is awful.
Mavericks is packed with features and has great battery life.
This post is coming from a huge Microsoft fan. I have always been a supporter of Microsoft and PCs. Windows 8 was the last straw for me.
Are you going to get a M3800 or M4800? I am thinking about getting one over the RMBP's but I still haven't made the call yet
I probably won't get either of those since I have no need for professional GPUs over consumer class GPUs. Both the XPS 15 and the rMBP look good, but I want to see reviews by notebookcheck on both before I make my decision. The rMBPs did not see a price decrease in my country. This means that the version with the dGPU is prohibitively expensive. That rules out the rMBP for the time being. I'm not expecting Apple to lower their prices like they said they would, but it could happen. I might go with the XPS 15 if I feel that it is worth the money, but it's still a lot of money.
I made a thread about this actually. What's the point of top-end specs if it has to throttle down and consume your battery even while plugged in after 10 min of intense use?
Heck, my first computer was a Texas Instrument 99/4A, when they were discontinuing them. Circa 1982? I wrote some programs in C+ (or something) and saved them on a cassette tape. Literally. In college I bought an IBM clone with a 20 MB HD. My first copy of Windows, 1.3 I think, came on a 5¼" floppy.
Psh, you and your fancy 16bit processors.
Atari 800XL here, Atari Basic was my first programming language. PEEK'd and POKE'd my way to a custom OS on there with an Indus GT 5-1/4" floppy drive WITH SYNCHROMESH, BABY. Makes me laugh to think how the 'beeping' got so much higher pitched. It sounded faster.
*sigh* The good ol' days.
*edit* - just noticed my avatar signature under my name and died laughing over here
I owned a Dell XPS 14 Ultrabook which was released in 2012. I dropped it from my desk, the same drop that caused a very minor dent on my MacBook Retina, the entire aluminum frame cracked with a crumbled cookie like appearance. Dell used cheap sintered aluminum as early as a few months ago. It is very unlikely that they would completely change their standard material and use 2024 Aluminum as that is a very expensive material that is almost never used outside of structural components on helicopters, rockets, airplanes etc.
Yeah I took a closer look at the images and you're right it's moulded not a flat sheet. I'm surprised dell spent the money to do that, but it's probably only 1 layer of carbon just for appearance. It is incredibly uncommon to see solid carbon fiber moulding. Even BMW only has 1 layer of the material on the outside of it's M3.
While I'm telling you about that why don't you tell me why both Dell XPS 14 laptops I purchased for my tech team BOTH had defective power supplies. Also tell me why one of the screens failed after a few months and why the battery in the other balooned to twice it's size due to hydrogen build up.
I've purchased more laptops for myself and my co-workers than anybody I know and Apple has had the least amount of problems out of any manufacturer period. Like I said I use laptops very intensely and I've destroyed laptops from every manufacturer through regular use except Apple.
No. Any windows systems can be correctly calibrated but you need a tool that is no cheaper than $1,000 to do the job. I've owned all the major inexpensive screen calibration tools, XRITE, datacolor, pantone colormunki, etc. None of them gave a good result.
Post the results. My XPS 14 was horrible calibration wise.
The Fujitsu UH90 uses the same screen and has been out for a few months. Just take the battery watt hour rating multiply by the difference. It's an easy calculation, but is somewhat estimated.
And I get 10 hours with the MacBook Retina, there is a huge difference.
Are you really going to complain about $50 on a $3000 laptop? I wouldn't use 16GB of ram priced at $150. I like My $200 ram thank you.
Actually yes it does. Each unit comes with a calibration profile tailored to the screen manufacturer and screen batch (but not individual screens). You can find your profile in /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/Displays/Color I would encourage anyone to disable this profile and let me know how the screen looks without it.
I've owned a Spyder 4 Elite, and tried it on my MacBook Pro. The results were way out of line with my previous professional calibration. You aren't going to get a professional calibration without buying an industrial grade color spectrometer for over $1000.
I look forward to that testing, but I highly doubt that, Dell has lagged behind in this category for decades.
They are supposed to be slightly thicker than that. Are you using a caliper or just eyeballing it?
Yes and that 1.5tb is not SSD storage. You can get a 1TB 5400 RPM drive with the dell, you can get a 1TB SSD with the Mac, big difference.
Again it's cheaper to buy a USED computer to upgrade. I'm a serial flipper and it will always be cheaper to flip a Mac than buy a new drive.
You're acting like the possibility of selling something is some sort of magic fairy tale that has only happened in theory. Market prices are very very well set.
You'd have to be incredibly paranoid to take issue with this concept.
Do you seriously dispute the fact that PCIe SSD's are faster? We're talking 750 MB/s vs 400 MB/s
What in the world?
How about you stop being an incredibly biased person who's job it is to make the XPS 15 look good in your review. I buy computers for tech teams. I've purchased more laptops than you will ever see in 10 lifetimes. Every manufacture except Apple and Lenovo make complete junk, I know this because I regularly buy computers from 5 separate manufacturers, and have bought from everyone.
I have an open mind to the idea that one day other manufactures will make high quality computers but I've been burned more times by everyone else than you can count. Dell is one of the worst offenders in the industry, they are king's of cost cutting. However your stance is clearly biased. If you want to write a good review then I suggest you stop trying to make your product look good.
Apple uses a unique technology called variable vein fans that they corned the market on. That means they make the quietest fans in the world, OS X is also better optimized for quietness, by a huge margin compared to windows. In fact quietness was a design goal of OS X set by Steve Jobs.
Dell didn't use carbon fiber for insulation, this was a byproduct of making a stiff chassis. Carbon fiber is an incredibly terrible material to make a laptop out of for just this reason. It's an insulator, in a hot environment. While aluminum acts as a heat sink. I can do some really intense overclocking with my MacBook Retina thanks to the good heat dissipation.
Apple makes the highest quality laptop on the market period. You cannot compete with their material selection, their technical patents, and their ability to push the envelope.
I will admit that I'm a little skeptical of Dell because they have made horrible computers in the past and tried to market them as top of the line while giving me some of the largest IT headaches possible. Dell/Aienware, HP and Asus are known for cost cutting and are horrible. I would much rather have a Sony, Samsung, Acer or Lenovo laptop, or Microsoft surface.
In the end though you can't get the Dell XPS 15 Touch with a 1TB SSD, you can't get it with a 4960HQ processor, which is 15%-20% faster than Dell's 4702HQ, you can't get it with a PCIe SSD, you can't get it with mag safe which is an infinitely better charger, you can't get it in 2024 aluminum which is much more durable, you can't get variable vein fans, you can't get 10 hours of real world battery life, and you certainly can't get OS X, or Apple like depreciation or build quality.
In the end I just see this Dell XPS 15 Touch as being a computer that is $2,200 for a 512MB SSD and the 4702HQ processor. The MacBook Pro Retina Mid range model is $2400 with my corporate discount. It has the 4850HQ processor, which is much faster, a faster SSD, it's quieter, it has better battery life, it's more durable, has a better track record for reliability, I can warranty it in any local store with excellent customer service, and it will cost me $400-$900 less in depreciation.
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You made some good points there. I respect your opinions and your choices. I don't agree with all of them, but I respect them.
I've not seen a Dell get through 3 years without a problem. Mainly the battery dropping to under 30 minutes. This is even with 3 year onsite warranty. Everything is a battle to get fixed.
Confused between XPS 15 and Macbook 13"
Hi guys, i am confused between the XPS 15 and the Macbook retina 13"(2.6i5/16gb ram/256ssd). My budget is max 1700 USD.(and i am getting educational offers on both!)
I am a master's student and i code a lot. Now the main dilemma is that Macbook retina 13" is offering only Dual core processors and macbook 15" is way out of my budget. I am really worried that dual core would take a lot of time to compile my programs compared to the quad core. But i really wanted a mac(my first time!) but not at the cost of reduced power(dual core instead of quad).
Any suggestions from your side regarding this?
Hi guys, i am confused between the XPS 15 and the Macbook retina 13"(2.6i5/16gb ram/256ssd). My budget is max 1700 USD.(and i am getting educational offers on both!)
I am a master's student and i code a lot. Now the main dilemma is that Macbook retina 13" is offering only Dual core processors and macbook 15" is way out of my budget. I am really worried that dual core would take a lot of time to compile my programs compared to the quad core. But i really wanted a mac(my first time!) but not at the cost of reduced power(dual core instead of quad).
Any suggestions from your side regarding this?
Psh, you and your fancy 16bit processors.
Atari 800XL here, Atari Basic was my first programming language. PEEK'd and POKE'd my way to a custom OS on there with an Indus GT 5-1/4" floppy drive WITH SYNCHROMESH, BABY. Makes me laugh to think how the 'beeping' got so much higher pitched. It sounded faster.
*sigh* The good ol' days.
*edit* - just noticed my avatar signature under my name and died laughing over here
Ha!
I had a lot of fun with that TI. Wife didn't like it, though. She said I spent too much time on it. Bah!
Heartening to see the good old Inspiron 6400 in that list. And I agree... I use that machine today and very proud of how it has lasted. The specs will make almost all of you laugh, but there you go.
The reason I'm about to make the switch is because of how - well - "unpredictable" the PC industry has been - in terms of quality, reliability and support.
I'm not saying I did not have trouble with the Inspiron 6400 - within the first year, I had the battery changed (within weeks of purchase), the optical drive (within months) and the screen (just before the 1st year). Plus one major virus infection. But the next 5 years went without any trouble. Despite running some "heavy" games like SpellForce 2, StarCraft 2, etc.
Given my next purchase, one key factor I figured in - warranty. I tend to travel - and Dell's "tag transfer" was a pain. I was working in the Middle East for a couple of years and they wouldn't transfer my tag to Bahrain (despite my filling a form which asked me to confirm "I will not use this device for chemical warfare, terrorist activities, etc."), Of course, glad my Dell held fort in that period!
OTOH Apple, from what I found out, was totally hassle free. A friend of mine purchased an iPhone in India. We were studying in the UK last year - his phone ran into trouble - we went to the Apple Store on Oxford Circus, presented his complaint, got the phone replaced in under 5 minutes.
Looking at the amount I will be spending now, I have that little extra comfort knowing Apple's support will be better (not sure how it is in India, though!) overall.
Just admit that he pawned your behind there. He flat out rebutted your statements point for point, and basically tore your argument apart.
You barged in here, all high and mighty, trying to prove a point, and you lost, plain and simple.
I have found Dell to have very good customer service, and they call back after the repairs to ensure I am satisfied.
OTOH, I found Apple service to be noticeably better.
Most of Bokeh's arguments were not rebutted at all. We do not yet have battery tests under identical conditions, so you cannot conclude that the rMBP has a longer battery life. Differences in things like screen brightness can have a big effect on battery life. We do not yet have accurate measurements of color accuracy, contrast, and brightness for both setups out of the box. We do not yet have temperature and noise measurements of the laptops, so one cannot conclude that either has lower emissions. Although extrapolating from the 2012 rMBP would seem to favour the XPS as far as heat is concerned. Most of Radiating's conclusions were based on his experience with different Dell laptops. His extrapolations to the XPS 15 might have some plausibility, but they are not established fact.
On a different note. I noticed that the dGPU 15" rMBP is so expensive in my country that I can buy the cheapest 13" rMBP and a desktop with a GTX 770 for the same amount of money.
What use are the faster components if you have a 85W adapter? This means that it can't feed the components sufficient power for intensive tasks. The result is consuming the battery while plugged in and massive throttling down. I wouldn't be shocked if that 4702HQ in the XPS 15 performs better than the 4960HQ after 30 min of doing an intensive graphical and CPU task just because of the throttling down.
It seems like they sacrificed workstation performance and thermals for a little extra thinness. The TDP of the 4960HQ and graphics card alone exceed 85W. Those specs are more on paper than real over extended use.
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- No matter how many SSDs you change on the XPS you will always have inferior performance than rMBP because XPS is limited by the SATA controller. Although as my friend mentioned above, for smaller files might be the same.
- It doesn't matter if XPS is a tiny bit thinner because rMBP is WAY smaller in width.
- The screen doesn't make a difference. If someone thinks it does than he/she is a marketing victim. MacOSX re-scales sizes by default. If you don't rescale the fonts and the widgets you just can't work. OK, that might not be true for some people with.. "hawk-eyes"
- If you need more than 16GB then u are doing something wrong. Get a desktop.
- I will not comment on the operating system. MacOSX is of course inferior to Linux. But you can install whatever OS you want on rMBP.
Having said that, I just bought my first apple product ever. I am an "apple-hater" but rMBP was the only option in my case.
edit: and of course rMBP's price is ridiculous
Randon 4K performance on Apple's PCIe SSD drives are identical to SATA 3 SSDs. Its only in sequential that PCIe drives are any better. Given that most day to day tasks involve random read/write performance it is unlikely that any difference will be noticed unless copying large folders across the drive or onto an external TB SSD.
You could make the same argument when Apple was on the verge of bankruptcy. We're talking about specific products not companies.
Thats true. Don't forget that apple limits turbo also. If you look at the AT RMBP 15 review with the 2.6ghz CPU you notice it performs the same a a 2.4ghz CPU in a PC (looking at the CB test in particular) as apple is not letting it turbo all the way. The 2.4 ghz CPU can turbo to 3.2 on all cores which is what the 2.6 is doing despite an ability to turbo to 3.4 ghz on four cores. There are PC notebooks that do the same (lenovo y510p) but there are also notebook that don't.
Most of what I do could be done on either OS and the critical Windows stuff would always be through VMs anyway (regardless of whether the main OS was OSX or Windows 8.1).
I'm just not willing to risk a year to 18 months of lugging something around 5 days a week that might turn out to be a pig in a poke. IBM X41s aside I've been there with all sorts of high end ultrabooks and notebooks and got burned too many times before.
In contrast, the mac laptops I've owned over the past few years have had decent battery performance (and longevity) feel nice to carry and type on, and have the only touchpad that's ever got me to abandon the mouse.
They're consistent and predictable enough that when it comes to buying a new one I feel like I already know what I'm getting before I open the box.
Now the Dell might be all those things and more, but I personally don't see any reason to take a chance on it.
I'm just not willing to risk a year to 18 months of lugging something around 5 days a week that might turn out to be a pig in a poke. IBM X41s aside I've been there with all sorts of high end ultrabooks and notebooks and got burned too many times before.
In contrast, the mac laptops I've owned over the past few years have had decent battery performance (and longevity) feel nice to carry and type on, and have the only touchpad that's ever got me to abandon the mouse.
They're consistent and predictable enough that when it comes to buying a new one I feel like I already know what I'm getting before I open the box.
Now the Dell might be all those things and more, but I personally don't see any reason to take a chance on it.
The main reason people would buy a rMBP is because of OS X, right?
Not in my experience. I think people mostly buy them because of the hardware. At the moment scaling is the biggest advantage in OS X over Windows 8 on a machine like this, and until Windows 8 developers fix the scaling in their software it will continue to be an advantage for OS X on hi-dpi laptops. Apple's developers are one year ahead at this point. We'll have to wait and see how long it takes Windows software to catch up.
Scaling was the deciding factor that moved me to the rMBP. I had been holding out for Windows and its app developers to match Apple's ability. Having transitioned to OS X, however, I've come to enjoy so much more than the screen resolution.
Those are all very good points. With 1 TB SSD drives in the $500-600 range, a 16 GB/1TB SSD Dell with IGZO would be about $1000 less than a Mac.
It will be interesting to see what TonyMac hackers can do with the Dell.