Will anyone else be disappointed if the new mac pro doesn't offer nvidia?

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
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I know I will not be happy if the offerings are ATI only.

and I really don't want any "If there is a new mac pro comments"
 

goMac

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Apr 15, 2004
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No. NVidia's card and driver quality has been poor recently. ATI's has been solid.

NVidia is always welcome to supply their own cards like they do on Windows anyway.
 

24Frames

macrumors regular
Mar 23, 2012
181
0
The AMD GPU pricing makes them quite a likely choice for Apple.

I will be disappointed if Apple do not include professional graphics cards like the NVidia Quadro 4000 as a BTO, rather than as an after purchase accessory, which is currently the case.

If Apple had consumer AMD 7000 series cards with the NVidia Quadro cards as a BTO option then I for one will be delighted.

The weakest part of the Mac Pro offering is the GPU. They need to do 2 things, first offer professional graphics cards to meet the requirements of users doing high end graphics, 3D, and VFX, second they need to make sure that software vendors can use these cards by improving the underlying frameworks in OS X Mountain Lion.

Although Mac OS X Lion has OpenGL 3.2 I can't think of a single 3D application that uses it, they all use OpenGL 2.1. The reason? Apple have implemented OpenGL 3.2 in a way that means the software house has to rewrite 10s of thousands of lines of code. This is very difficult when they are developing applications that run on Mac OS X, Windows 7, and in some cases Linux as well.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
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Apple have implemented OpenGL 3.2 in a way that means the software house has to rewrite 10s of thousands of lines of code. This is very difficult when they are developing applications that run on Mac OS X, Windows 7, and in some cases Linux as well.
To be fair, that's how OpenGL 3.2 works on any platform. It's not Apple specific.

OpenGL 3.2 doesn't offer performance enhancements anyway, it just offers new functionality which you have to : drumroll: write new code for.

It seems a lot of people here are confused about what new OpenGL means. It's not for speed, it's for new code features. The new code features might get you more speed if you rewrite your code, but the purpose of OpenGL upgrades is not to make existing apps faster.
 

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
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The AMD GPU pricing makes them quite a likely choice for Apple.

I will be disappointed if Apple do not include professional graphics cards like the NVidia Quadro 4000 as a BTO, rather than as an after purchase accessory, which is currently the case.

If Apple had consumer AMD 7000 series cards with the NVidia Quadro cards as a BTO option then I for one will be delighted.

The weakest part of the Mac Pro offering is the GPU. They need to do 2 things, first offer professional graphics cards to meet the requirements of users doing high end graphics, 3D, and VFX, second they need to make sure that software vendors can use these cards by improving the underlying frameworks in OS X Mountain Lion.

Although Mac OS X Lion has OpenGL 3.2 I can't think of a single 3D application that uses it, they all use OpenGL 2.1. The reason? Apple have implemented OpenGL 3.2 in a way that means the software house has to rewrite 10s of thousands of lines of code. This is very difficult when they are developing applications that run on Mac OS X, Windows 7, and in some cases Linux as well.
Thats what I'm hoping on, They can offer ATI for those who want them, but i hope they at least give the option. Most of the programs I use take advantage of CUDA so I really wouldn't want to buy a tower only to remove the new video card.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
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Thats what I'm hoping on, They can offer ATI for those who want them, but i hope they at least give the option.
Again, it's NVidia's option to give. Why is Apple being dragged into this?

If NVidia wants to create a proprietary technology they won't license to competitors, it's kind of their problem, not Apple's.
 

Photovore

macrumors regular
Dec 28, 2011
116
0
Won't touch me, I think.

My application is OpenCL, and runs on both vendors' platforms. But, I have an AMD 5870 in my pro, cost about $500.00. I tried my app on a pro at work with a $2000.00 Quadro and got about half the throughput that I do on the 5870.

*Really* looking forward to an Apple-proved 7980!...
 

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
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Again, it's NVidia's option to give. Why is Apple being dragged into this?

If NVidia wants to create a proprietary technology they won't license to competitors, it's kind of their problem, not Apple's.
Because it's up to Apple to say "Hey Nvidia, we'd like buy some cards to offer as a option in the Mac Pro" Every other workstation OEM does it, why not Apple?

I don't know what problem you have with having Apple offering the option of having a choice between the two, if you don't want Nvidia simply click the ATI option.

And Nvidia does offer drivers for their cards in OSX, so it seems to me they already do give.
 

gpzjock

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2009
798
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Someone at Nvidia is already supplying drivers to run 5xx series cards in existing MP hardware, even if Apple don't front up their cards they will make drivers that will work the next gen eventually I reckon.
 

philipma1957

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,272
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Howell, New Jersey
Won't touch me, I think.

My application is OpenCL, and runs on both vendors' platforms. But, I have an AMD 5870 in my pro, cost about $500.00. I tried my app on a pro at work with a $2000.00 Quadro and got about half the throughput that I do on the 5870.

*Really* looking forward to an Apple-proved 7980!...
the 5870 is a good card. burns a lot of juice runs loud but it can get pretty fast results. Kind of like a 70's muscle car.
 

derbothaus

macrumors 601
Jul 17, 2010
4,060
4
7970 or GTX 680, either way both are pretty close if you're not OCD on benchmarks.
I'd be happy with GTX 670 and 7950 as well. Both are very impressive. We're so far back from upgrades now that 2nd tier cards will offer a nice 2x boost. Anything slower than 7870 and I would be bummed.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,997
1
Texas
I don't care about consumer cards anymore. I just want a quality professional card.

I also don't care what happens in the next Mac Pro update. I got a 2010 that is working great. The only problem is GPU performance. I plan on building my own workstation when this one is done. So because I plan on doing that, I do no want to put any more money into this one. Especially since professional GPU support is so much better on Windows.
 

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
466
86
Someone at Nvidia is already supplying drivers to run 5xx series cards in existing MP hardware, even if Apple don't front up their cards they will make drivers that will work the next gen eventually I reckon.
Ya but unless you modify the card it doesn't have boot screens or pci 2.0
 

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
466
86
Which is NVidia's fault. It's not a secret how to do this, NVidia just isn't doing it.
You obviously are uniformed on this subject, it doesn't matter if it's ATI or Nvidia card, many 6000 series ATI cards That are plug and play have this same problem, only official apple approved cards work fully out of the box. You obviously have a bias against nvidia please stay out of this discussion, you have continually added misinformation and it is not helpful or constructive at all.
 

dbit

macrumors regular
May 2, 2006
230
0
It's pretty clear that 3D and video professionals have been the loudest, most vocal group with regards to needing the power of a Mac Pro in order to stay on the Apple platform. I'm sure Apple is aware of this and I would really hope they don't disappoint in this regard. I would love to see them go nvidia but I have a strong feeling that we'll still see ATI.

One of the best things they could do with a next generation Mac Pro is provide broad support for after market professional GPU's rather than try to lock in one time BTO options. That way people can add cards later if they choose to go crossfire or sli, or low and behold, upgrade! (what a thought!)
 
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MacVidCards

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Nov 17, 2008
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Nvidia has recently (since March) gone out of their way to provide better OSX drivers.

They have enabled us to use GTX5xx cards just by installing their drivers from their website.

My read on this is that IF there is a Mac Pro 6,1 off in the future, there will NOT be any BTO Nvidia options. But that is just a guess and Nvidia does not email me their plans. But it is also possible that there is a Mac GTX680 in the wings and a driver update to support it just around the corner.

If the past is any indicator, they will release Professional level card and drivers at same time.

Anyone and everyone can use a GTX560/570/580 in their Mac Pro right now.
 

fox10078

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
466
86
Nvidia has recently (since March) gone out of their way to provide better OSX drivers.

They have enabled us to use GTX5xx cards just by installing their drivers from their website.

My read on this is that IF there is a Mac Pro 6,1 off in the future, there will NOT be any BTO Nvidia options. But that is just a guess and Nvidia does not email me their plans. But it is also possible that there is a Mac GTX680 in the wings and a driver update to support it just around the corner.

If the past is any indicator, they will release Professional level card and drivers at same time.

Anyone and everyone can use a GTX560/570/580 in their Mac Pro right now.
Yeah, I have the same feeling. Looks like I'll be buying one your modded cards once the new Pros are out.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
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You obviously are uniformed on this subject, it doesn't matter if it's ATI or Nvidia card, many 6000 series ATI cards That are plug and play have this same problem, only official apple approved cards work fully out of the box. You obviously have a bias against nvidia please stay out of this discussion, you have continually added misinformation and it is not helpful or constructive at all.
No. Cards do not have to be Apple approved to get the boot screen. See: Quadro 4000, Radeon 3870, GTX285.

It's simply NVidia being lazy.

The idea that Apple has to approve cards for them to get the boot screen is misinformation. Apple is not stopping anyone from making GPUs. The way to get a boot screen is an EFI firmware. This is not a secret, nor is it locked up by Apple. NVidia simply has not added EFI firmware to their cards.

There is no "Apple approval" process or program for cards. If a hardware maker is willing to put in the time, they are free to add Mac support. Simple as that.
 

MacVidCards

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Nov 17, 2008
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Fact Check Time

No. NVidia's card and driver quality has been poor recently. ATI's has been solid.

NVidia is always welcome to supply their own cards like they do on Windows anyway.

It's simply NVidia being lazy.
Let's do a quick Fact Check.

Curently, it is possible to run any and all Nvidia cards from last generation. (i.e., the GTX5xx cards) They also run just fine in 10.8 current DP3.

Meanwhile, over in the red camp.....

The only series that has FULL support is the 5xxx cards. Which is in fact 2 generations ago. The 6xxx cards which were the previous generation have support for 6870 mid level cards, but the 6950/70 support has NEVER been complete and is in fact BROKEN in 10.7.4 and 10.8 DP3. The first DP of 10.8 had it around 90% but it has since been BROKEN by somebody. The 6950/70 came out in December 2010, right around same time as GTX580. Hmm.....

So, the only OSX support for high end ATI/AMD cards is from 2009 era 5870 cards. Meanwhile, Nvidia has support for cards from their high end range from 1 generation ago. AND.....the fastest Mac cards right now are in fact Nvidia cards. Dozens of people are currently using them in CS6 in Pro video houses. I am delivering 2 GTX580 3GB cards to a post house in Glendale tomorrow.

Nobody as far as I know is using a 6950/70 for anything serious in a Mac.

So, why is ATI "solid" and Nvidia "poor"?

How is Nvidia being any lazier than ATI?

At least they offer relatively recent drivers.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
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So, why is ATI "solid" and Nvidia "poor"?
Because I have two dead NVidia cards here, and no dead ATI cards. I know people avoiding NVidia for similar reasons, and it's why NVidia got dumped in the first place.

I also had bugs where some OpenGL code I had actually kernel paniced the NVidia drivers. Again, ATI drivers are fine.

I don't care what the driver support looks like if cards die and the drivers crash. You sell cards, so that's what you care about, but not me.

Having an ATI card in my Mac Pro has been a dream compared to the NVidia cards.
 
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