iPad Will future IPads include a headphone jack??

[subjonas]

You've pre-conditioned your conclusions based on your personal assessment of the size of the headphone jack.

Do you mean because I said "tiny"? That's because relative to the size of the iPad, the space is tiny. This thread is about the iPad losing the audio jack after all. I agree that for a phone, the space saved is (or should be) much more significant.

Without that data, all of this is subjective. In the end, all that matters is what Apple wants to accomplish

I agree with this as well.

An even more important question... can most people even TELL the difference in sound quality (between wireless and wired)??
I'd be willing to bet that, given a blind test the vast majority of people couldn't tell.

I categorized that question under the first question (do most people care about the advantages or disadvantages of wireless). I figure people who can't tell the difference in quality will simply make their decision based on the other pros and cons. The question you quoted is of course only pertinent to the [probably smaller group of people] who can tell the difference, or who even care. If wireless audio quality can catch up, this group could be won over as well.

 

[bensisko]

I categorized that question under the first question (do most people care about the advantages or disadvantages of wireless). I figure people who can't tell the difference in quality will simply make their decision based on the other pros and cons. The question you quoted is of course only pertinent to the [probably smaller group of people] who can tell the difference, or who even care. If wireless audio quality can catch up, this group could be won over as well.

So, what exactly IS the quality issue? What makes listening to music via Bluetooth horrible as compared to wired headphones? And, I guess, what is the level of difference? I can find technical differences, but I'm interested in the experience of listening to music - what makes listening to Bluetooth that much less enjoyable?

I see people complaining about Bluetooth audio sucking and linking to audio quality test done by blogs that show a technical difference, but to me this is the difference between your processor being an A9 and an A9x - few, if any, will ever notice the difference in the experience of using their device.

 

[Night Spring]

I see people complaining about Bluetooth audio sucking and linking to audio quality test done by blogs that show a technical difference, but to me this is the difference between your processor being an A9 and an A9x - few, if any, will ever notice the difference in the experience of using their device.

I have to agree that the A9 vs A9x comparison is apt.

I tried a few Bluetooth earphones about 4-5 years ago, and their sound quality were not very good. However, Bose finally came out with this, I think about two or three years ago.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products...adphones.html#v=soundlink_oe_headphones_black

I couldn't hear a difference between ths and my regular wired headphones.

And now Bose has come out with earphones.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products...adphones.html#v=soundlink_oe_headphones_black

I got it on Monday and have been using it ever since. I can't tell a difference between this and my regular wired earphones.

Maybe people with more sensitive ears can tell a difference, but the majority of consumers are going to find the sound quality on the latest Bluetooth headphones and earphones very acceptable.

They do, however, cost $100+. Acceptable quality Bluetooth sound at under $50 is going to take a few more years.

 

[bensisko]

I

They do, however, cost $100+. Acceptable quality Bluetooth sound at under $50 is going to take a few more years.

And that's why both Lightning headphones and an adaptor were included.

I haven't played at the sub-$100 level with BT Headphones, but I'm VERY interested in the AirPods.

 

[Night Spring]

I haven't played at the sub-$100 level with BT Headphones, but I'm VERY interested in the AirPods.

The AirPods and Bose SoundSports both cost $150, I believe.

The AirPods' charging case and one step pairing with all your Apple devices are very attractive features, but I decided to go with Bose because I'm fairly sure the AirPods wouldn't stay in my ears, and the hands-on reviews left me unconvinced that they match Bose's sound quality.

 

[Coolpher]

I can totally relate to this. When I get home from work and my phone is at 80%, the very first thing I do is let my dogs out of their cage because I'm not a selfish monster and then I plug my iPhone in to top it off. Not having 100% battery makes me anxious and I don't know why. I didn't used to be like this. :/

Same with my iPads. When I'm not using them, I'm charging them. Even if they're at 98%.

I'm the same way about my dog and my technology

 

[bensisko]

The AirPods and Bose SoundSports both cost $150, I believe.

The AirPods' charging case and one step pairing with all your Apple devices are very attractive features, but I decided to go with Bose because I'm fairly sure the AirPods wouldn't stay in my ears, and the hands-on reviews left me unconvinced that they match Bose's sound quality.

What really attracts me to the AirPods is the ability to use as a BT Headset (yes, I still occasionally use the phone as a phone ). I bought the Apple BT headset that Apple made for the original iPhone and I LOVED it! I'd still be using it today if it wasn't for the battery being dead.

 

[Night Spring]

What really attracts me to the AirPods is the ability to use as a BT Headset (yes, I still occasionally use the phone as a phone ). I bought the Apple BT headset that Apple made for the original iPhone and I LOVED it! I'd still be using it today if it wasn't for the battery being dead.

Hmmm. I can't remember the last set of earphones I had that didn't include a mike for phone calls. So using the AirPods to make phone calls doesn't strike me as something new. I suppose you are talking about just popping in one ear piece for phone calls. I'm more intrigued about the AirPods switching to mono when you have just one of them in your ear, and going stereo when you pop in the other one. Though I want the music (or any other sound) to stop playing when I take out both. The way it was described is that if you take out both, then sound will start coming out of your phone, which isn't the behavior I want. I really hope there is a way to stop it from doing that, because I just never have a situation where I want sound coming out from my iPhone speakers.

 

[Tsepz]

The next iPhone will probably have a headphone jack.

I'd be shocked if they removed it from the iPad.

 

[Fosty]

Well, sure, there's some speculation involved. But you've done some speculating yourself, such as suggesting Apple will reverse themselves when iPhone sales go down because of the missing headphone jack. We don't yet know for a fact that that will happen, so that's speculation on your part.

Nope. I am simply waiting to see what unfolds based on evidence i.e. the precedent of the SE. There's no evidence or precedent to support wireless being any better than it is now - which is to say inferior to a wired connection.

Also the headphones you linked look like garbage. There's no actual audio specs I could find on that page. You'd most likely get better sound quality from a proper pair of wired $200+ headphones.

An even more important question... can most people even TELL the difference

Of course - anyone can - especially BMW owners atm.

$29

vs.

$160

But you both are buying into a false dilemma. By your reasoning we should get rid of the camera too. That would also save space while providing us with a less functional phone.

 

[bensisko]

But you both are buying into a false dilemma. By your reasoning we should get rid of the camera too. That would also save space while providing us with a less functional phone.

I'm sorry but that's just stupid - there's no wire involved with the camera thus making it a TOTALLY illogical comparison. If you said "get rid of the Lightning Port", then I'd agree with you.

 

[Night Spring]

There's no evidence or precedent to support wireless being any better than it is now - which is to say inferior to a wired connection.

I did give a precedent, of wireless printers being slower than wired to begin with, but eventually catching up.

You'd most likely get better sound quality from a proper pair of wired $200+ headphones.

Those headphones are heavy, bulky, and don't fit my head.

It also doesn't make sense to use them with mobile devices, because mobile devices don't output sound at high enough quality to take advantage of those headsets high fidelity sound reproduction.

Those are for audiophiles listening to music at home. I want earphones that I can wear on the Bus, subway, and while walking down the street.

 

[Fosty]

I did give a precedent, of wireless printers being slower than wired to begin with, but eventually catching up.

In other words your precedent has no bearing on the tech we're talking about where as mine does.

Those headphones are heavy, bulky, and don't fit my head.

Those are for audiophiles listening to music at home. I want earphones that I can wear on the Bus, subway, and while walking down the street.

What you want is immaterial to the claim that bluetooth is as good as wired and that no one would be able to know the difference. It's not and any of those headphones I linked will be a stark difference in quality.

I'm sorry but that's just stupid - there's no wire involved with the camera thus making it a TOTALLY illogical comparison.

It's totally an apt comparison as they are both asinine following the logic that a static form must dictate the function. You're the one that wants a false dilemma, you just prefer your arbitrary one to mine.

 

[Night Spring]

In other words your precedent has no bearing on the tech we're talking about where as mine does.

So it's relevant only if you think it is. Got it.

What you want is immaterial to the claim that bluetooth is as good as wired and that no one would be able to know the difference. It's not and any of those headphones I linked will be a stark difference in quality.

I accept that wired will always carry more information faster than wireless, and that those headphones you linked to offer higher quality audio than Bluetooth. But what I'm saying is that for the purposes of mobile music listening, current Bluetooth headphones and earphones are good enough, and offer advantages like compactness and the ease of not being connected to your device with a cord. So I think most users will be happy with switching to Bluetooth for mobile listening.

As for whether the iPad will ever lose the headphone jack or not, I don't care either way. I know I won't be using it going forward, but it's not a problem for me if the jack is there. And I doubt enough people will complain about it being gone from the iPhone that Apple will have to bring back the jack, but time will tell.

 

[Fosty]

So it's relevant only if you think it is. Got it.

Really? I hope this is a show on your part to save face and not actually something you believe.

Tim Cook changing course on the larger iPhones to offer a smaller one (the SE) is relevant to the discussion of what might happen to the next iPhone given discontent about the lack of a headphone jack. It is an objectively relevant precedent. What happened to printers - wireless or otherwise - has nothing to do with the iPhone or even phones in general and therefore isn't.

 

[MH01]

I have to agree that the A9 vs A9x comparison is apt.

I tried a few Bluetooth earphones about 4-5 years ago, and their sound quality were not very good. However, Bose finally came out with this, I think about two or three years ago.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products...adphones.html#v=soundlink_oe_headphones_black

I couldn't hear a difference between ths and my regular wired headphones.

And now Bose has come out with earphones.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products...adphones.html#v=soundlink_oe_headphones_black

I got it on Monday and have been using it ever since. I can't tell a difference between this and my regular wired earphones.

Maybe people with more sensitive ears can tell a difference, but the majority of consumers are going to find the sound quality on the latest Bluetooth headphones and earphones very acceptable.

They do, however, cost $100+. Acceptable quality Bluetooth sound at under $50 is going to take a few more years.

That's a nice set of Bose, though it's an unfair comparison testing those wireless against another wired set.

Your bose headphones come with wired cord. Play the same song over wireless and over wired , and get back to us if you hear a difference .

I opted for the B&O H8 and using the same test, wired sounds better.

 

[Night Spring]

Tim Cook changing course on the larger iPhones to offer a smaller one (the SE) is relevant to the discussion of what might happen to the next iPhone given discontent about the lack of a headphone jack. It is an objectively relevant precedent. What happened to printers - wireless or otherwise - has nothing to do with the iPhone or even phones in general and therefore isn't.

What happened when printers went from wired to wireless isn't relevant to what might happen as headphones goes from wired to wireless? You are cherry picking what is relevant and what isn't.

That's a nice set of Bose, though it's an unfair comparison testing those wireless against another wired set.

Your bose headphones come with wired cord. Play the same song over wireless and over wired , and get back to us if you hear a difference .

I opted for the B&O H8 and using the same test, wired sounds better.

I did test my Bose headphones wired vs wireless when I first got it. And sure, I thought wired sounded a little bit better. But the difference isn't enough that I feel confident I could tell them apart in a blind test. It certainly isn't enough to make me dig out the wires unless my headphones run out of charge.

 

[MH01]

What happened when printers went from wired to wireless isn't relevant to what might happen as headphones goes from wired to wireless? You are cherry picking what is relevant and what isn't.




I did test my Bose headphones wired vs wireless when I first got it. And sure, I thought wired sounded a little bit better. But the difference isn't enough that I feel confident I could tell them apart in a blind test. It certainly isn't enough to make me dig out the wires unless my headphones run out of charge.

Understand. with sound it's comes down to personal preference mostly.

I'm hoping the day comes when wireless sounds the same as wired, sadly for me it's not here yet as I can definitely tell the difference between by H8 wired and wireless, and for me it's not insignificant that I will plug in the cable when I want a longer listening session.

Though hey, it's all relative, be it Bose or B&O or many cheaper offerings they sound so much better wireless than the stock buds...

 

[Fosty]

What happened when printers went from wired to wireless isn't relevant to what might happen as headphones goes from wired to wireless? You are cherry picking what is relevant and what isn't.

Wow really biting the bullet then - aren't you.

Feel free to detail how the software driving the wireless technology that goes into printing a document on one device relates to the software driving the wireless audio on a completely different one. Further tell us how printing with ink and paper relates to speakers and audio definition, spectrum frequencies etc.

Short answer: it doesn't.

You're simply making a hasty generalization and by magic hoping it means something for the two.

It's a fallacy.

Enjoy reading about it here.

I'm not cherry picking - simply holding myself to a higher standard by finding a precedent that addresses the issue vs. you choosing something that doesn't - at all.

Edit: Here's the other fallacy you and others in this thread can't manage to get your heads around as well: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/false-dilemma/

 

[Night Spring]

Feel free to detail how the wireless technology that goes into printing a document on one device relates to wireless audio on a completely different one. Further tell us how printing with ink and paper relates to speakers and audio definition, spectrum frequencies etc.

With both printer and headphones, it's digital data being transmitted wirelessly. What the data represents (how to place ink on paper, what frequency audio to play on the headphone) is, well, irrelevant.

 

[Fosty]

With both printer and headphones, it's digital data being transmitted wirelessly. What the data represents (how to place ink on paper, what frequency audio to play on the headphone) is, well, irrelevant.

Except it isn't because that's what needs to be reproduced, in this case by two separate types of machines, with two different types of software. Sorry learn the fallacies and learn to differentiate then you might get somewhere that amounts to a logical conclusion.

 

[Night Spring]

Edit: Here's the other fallacy you and others in this thread can't manage to get your heads around as well: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/false-dilemma/

You are saying that headphone jack and Bluetooth audio can coexist, correct? While that is true as far as it goes, by that same reasoning, we could still have floppy disk drives in our computers, because adding optical drives doesn't mean that the floppy drive has to go! They can all exist happily together on the same device.

 

[Night Spring]

Except it isn't because that's what needs to be reproduced, in this case by two separate types of machines, with two different types of software. Sorry learn the fallacies and you might get somewhere that amounts to a logical conclusion.

But all I'm talking about is the wireless data transmission speed. The transmission speed started out being too slow for printers, then got faster, and now it's getting fast enough for audio.

 

[Fosty]

You are saying that headphone jack and Bluetooth audio can coexist, correct? While that is true as far as it goes, by that same reasoning, we could still have floppy disk drives in our computers, because adding optical drives doesn't mean that the floppy drive has to go! They can all exist happily together on the same device.

Are you going to make me go through the entire list of fallacy links?

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ambiguity/straw-man/

But all I'm talking about is the wireless data transmission speed. The transmission speed started out being too slow for printers, then got faster, and now it's getting fast enough for audio.

You are literally going through the example listed for a hasty generalization. 'X' is true for 'A' therefore 'X' is true for 'B'.

Bluetooth still sucks compared to wired and will for the foreseeable future. And that may be good enough for you but to dictate that as good enough for everyone else is hubris - especially when there is a technically superior option available. As the article I linked before points out:

"There's simply more audio information traveling over a wire than can travel over the air...

For years, I tried to convince myself otherwise. I've bought so many sets of Bluetooth headphones that my wife still laughs about it...Then I bought the exquisite Bose QuietComfort 20 in-ear noise-canceling headphones, and I've never looked back.

Turns out it's not so much of a hardship to run with a wire attached to your iPhone when the sound is this crystal clear. "​

 

[Night Spring]

Are you going to make me go through the entire list of fallacy links?

Okay, if you aren't saying headphone jack and Bluetooth can coexist, then what are you saying by bringing up "false dilemma"?

Turns out it's not so much of a hardship to run with a wire attached to your iPhone when the sound is this crystal clear.

Well if you don't mind running with wire attached to your phone, then good for you. You can use the lightning to audio plug adapter, or you can buy another phone.

I'm not pushing my choice on everyone else. I'm just predicting that most people, once they get used to wireless audio, will prefer that over wired. But hey, I could be wrong. We can check back in a year or two to see who is right.