Will Kindle App Survive Apple's Deadline for iOS Content Purchasing Compliance?

[pdjudd]

I don't think so, because they can sell their books on other devices. It's not as if the iPad is the only venue for them to sell their books, so there's no restraint of trade.

Indeed - and as I pointed out - they all have their own devices that they sell as well as many other mobile platforms.

A monopoly may not be required for antitrust, but not having said monopoly makes your case a steep uphill battle. Especially when the government has not been particularly aggressive about anti-trust. All Apple needs to do is point out the huge number of Google devices and the first party devices out there that can read Amazon (or other retailer books) that sell very well and making an anti-trust case is going to be very hard.

 

[InfernoShade]

It's Business As Usual

It's sort of incredible how people who are tech savvy have no business sense. I sometimes am annoyed at Apple, but what they are doing makes sense.This is the deal, as simply as I can put it.

With iPhone/iPad, Apple opened a new revenue stream for businesses - a new way to make money they were not able to before. They sell an app (say for $1) and Apple gets 30% of that sale. This is pretty standard. Now these companies can make millions they would not have made before. And of course Apple makes money too.

Then with certain apps, companies can sell other items inside the app, say books. So once again they have a new way to make more money, again money they were not getting before. With the in-app sales, Apple gets nothing. A company might sell a finite number of the apps, but the in-app sales is infinite. Apple comes along and says, hey, we should get a cut, as we were the ones who created the new revenue stream for you. And guess what, that's standard for any business! They would be stupid to say no to Apple because they would then give up all this new money. As said many times over, 70% of some is way better than 100% of nothing.

It may sound like greed to some people, but that's good business. And it's common in all industries! Just as those companies selling in-app items can have expanding business, Apple business needs to expand too. If they did not take a cut, they would be silly, and losing out on huge growth opportunities. All app stores will do this. Andriod also does the 70-30 split. I'm not 100% sure about in-app purchases, but if not now, they certainly will. Business, people! Business!

 

[Piggie]

I would like to see Kindle stand firm, and let Apple decide if they wish to remove their App.

Apple changed the rules.

Unless someone stands firm, companies like Apple will feel they can get away with anything.

 

[Oletros]

It's sort of incredible how people who are tech savvy have no business sense. I sometimes am annoyed at Apple, but what they are doing makes sense.This is the deal, as simply as I can put it.

With iPhone/iPad, Apple opened a new revenue stream for businesses - a new way to make money they were not able to before. They sell an app (say for $1) and Apple gets 30% of that sale. This is pretty standard. Now these companies can make millions they would not have made before. And of course Apple makes money too.

Then with certain apps, companies can sell other items inside the app, say books. So once again they have a new way to make more money, again money they were not getting before. With the in-app sales, Apple gets nothing. A company might sell a finite number of the apps, but the in-app sales is infinite. Apple comes along and says, hey, we should get a cut, as we were the ones who created the new revenue stream for you. And guess what, that's standard for any business!

It may sound like greed to some people, but that's good business. And it's common in all industries! Just as those companies selling in-app items can have expanding business, Apple business needs to expand too. If they did not take a cut, they would be silly, and losing out on huge growth opportunities. All app stores will do this. Andriod also does the 70-30 split. I'm not 100% sure about in-app purchases, but if not now, they certainly will. Business, people! Business!

Which in app purchase? Because nor Kindle, nor B&N nor Netflix had or has any in app purchase system.

So you think that Apple deserves a cut from anything sold through ebay, Best Buy or Amazon Store apps?

And no, Android doesn't force to use their in app system or ban a link to a browser like Kindle App does.

 

[Oletros]

I don't think so, because they can sell their books on other devices. It's not as if the iPad is the only venue for them to sell their books, so there's no restraint of trade.

But Apple is making impossible to sell from an iOS device without taking a cut

 

[Sodner]

Which in app purchase? Because nor Kindle, nor B&N nor Netflix had or has any in app purchase system.

So you think that Apple deserves a cut from anything sold through ebay, Best Buy or Amazon Store apps?

And no, Android doesn't force to use their in app system or ban a link to a browser like Kindle App does.

That's what I do not get. Apple sales books via iTunes so they want 30% of anyone selling books through an app. But what about eBay? Will apple next want 30% of everything bought or sold that was originally listed or had a winning bid placed from an iOS device?

 

[jontech]

The rules are pretty clear, if they don't pull the button Apple have to pull the app from the store.

And, by the way, the title is a little misleading. I highly doubt Kindle as a whole will suffer from pulling Kindle iOS app from the App Store

No App for IOS no Kindle books for me. Reading Kindle books on the iPad is one of the reasons I got an iPad, cause I hate the Kindle.

 

[InfernoShade]

Which in app purchase? Because nor Kindle, nor B&N nor Netflix had or has any in app purchase system.

So you think that Apple deserves a cut from anything sold through ebay, Best Buy or Amazon Store apps?

And no, Android doesn't force to use their in app system or ban a link to a browser like Kindle App does.

I'm not sure what you mean. And I may be missing something or used the proper terminology. Sorry. Let me try and explain again.

When in these apps you hit "buy" or "go to store" and it kicks you to the web browser, they are circumventing the 7-30 deal. So again, they are making money they would not have in the past. Apple is saying hey, where's our 30%. So yeah, I'm saying it's standard business practice to ask for that.

Any and all other industries do that. But this is new evolving tech. I'm sure at some point they had not thought of in-app purchases. Also good business would be to allow them to see the stream of money, so they see it's viable, and then negotiate the cut. As I said, all app stores will do this, as they need their business to be infinite as the customers they work with.

 

[janitor1999]

good luck with that, just going to take a feature away from people who will not dump their Amazon collection anyway.

I moved over to a galaxy tab 7 for e-books after my old Kindle (iphone screen was to small) - so not an issue for me really.

I see people on the train trying to read off their ipads on the train standing up sometimes - it just looks ridiculous.

And also Amazon are apparently going to release their own tablet pc. I'm sure that will have it's own kindle app.

 

[Oletros]

I'm not sure what you mean. And I may be missing something or used the proper terminology. Sorry. Let me try and explain again.

When in these apps you hit "buy" or "go to store" and it kicks you to the web browser, they are circumventing the 7-30 deal. So again, they are making money they would not have in the past. Apple is saying hey, where's our 30%. So yeah, I'm saying it's standard business practice to ask for that.

What are circumvecting? Tell me the difference from buying a book from Mobile Safari Browser and Os X Safari Browser.

Tell me the difference from buying a book for Kindle from Safari Browser and buying a physical book inside the Amazon iOS app.

 

[azurebat]

Geesh, next apple will want a cut if you just open safari and buy something online without using an app. apple provided the access via safari to go online and make the purchase afterall.

Yes I know that is ridiculous, but you never know.

 

[lilo777]

The rules are pretty clear, if they don't pull the button Apple have to pull the app from the store.

And, by the way, the title is a little misleading. I highly doubt Kindle as a whole will suffer from pulling Kindle iOS app from the App Store

While the rules are clear, up until now, in situations like this when the push came to shove, Apple always backed off and changed the rules.

 

[InfernoShade]

What are circumvecting? Tell me the difference from buying a book from Mobile Safari Browser and Os X Safari Browser.

Tell me the difference from buying a book for Kindle from Safari Browser and buying a physical book inside the Amazon iOS app.

Dude, I don't have all day to teach you business. But Apple, like any company would, expects a cut of the transactions that take place on their device. So if you use the full true in-app purchasing system, Apple gets a cut, but if you are kicked to the browser, they don't. If I am understanding this correctly, this is the heart of the issue.

In the Kindle app for example, when you click on the store button it takes you to the web browser. Any purchases here, Apple does not get a cut of.

 

[Oletros]

Dude, I don't have all day to teach you business. But Apple, like any company would, expects a cut of the transactions that take place on their device. So if you use the full true in-app purchasing system, Apple gets a cut, but if you are kicked to the browser, they don't. If I am understanding this correctly, this is the heart of the issue.

In the Kindle app for example, when you click on the store button it takes you to the web browser. Any purchases here, Apple does not get a cut of.

Yes, I know the rules.

So, can you explain me the difference between buying a physical book from inside the Amazon app a buying a book from Safari Browser?

Why in the first case Apple doesn't owe a cut and the second is circumvecting something?

 

[BJMRamage]

What about if the button just said "visit the Kindle Homepage"
Then on that home page you could also see you can buy/purchase books?
Would that work as it doesn't specifically through you right int a purchase?

Also what about Amazon App purchases? Does Apple get a cut of them? I suppose those are purchases that aren't then used right within the app that might be the difference.

 

[SvenSvenson]

The iPhone and iPad provide lousy e-book reading experiences anyway, IMHO. The Kindle and e-ink excel for reading books. I own 3 iPads and 2 Kindles so I think I'm pretty qualified to make that statement.

Funny that - I think that it's a pretty decent book reader. I've got 2 iPads and 2 iPhones so am equally qualified.

Steve

 

[InfernoShade]

But Apple is making impossible to sell from an iOS device without taking a cut

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Yeah, Apple expects to make a percentage off any transaction on its device. Any and all businesses would expect that. It's standard business. But Apple is the first in the app market so they are the guinea pig. (BTW, see my other post.)

 

[Oletros]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Yeah, Apple expects to make a percentage off any transaction on its device. Any and all businesses would expect that. It's standard business. But Apple is the first in the app market so they are the guinea pig. (BTW, see my other post.)

So, Apple expects to make a percentage when you buy a pizza or a air ticket from Mobile Safari browser?

 

[fifthworld]

Dude, I don't have all day to teach you business. But Apple, like any company would, expects a cut of the transactions that take place on their device. So if you use the full true in-app purchasing system, Apple gets a cut, but if you are kicked to the browser, they don't. If I am understanding this correctly, this is the heart of the issue.

In the Kindle app for example, when you click on the store button it takes you to the web browser. Any purchases here, Apple does not get a cut of.

Their device? Are you forgetting that they sold the device and doesn't belong to them anymore? LOL

 

[diamond.g]

What are circumvecting? Tell me the difference from buying a book from Mobile Safari Browser and Os X Safari Browser.

Tell me the difference from buying a book for Kindle from Safari Browser and buying a physical book inside the Amazon iOS app.

According to the rules, the physical book is the difference.

 

[Oletros]

According to the rules, the physical book is the difference.

Yes, there is no difference

 

[vartanarsen]

I wonder if Amazon will ever get Lodsysed for their link to their book store within iOS?

 

[AaronEdwards]

Clearly Amazon is not afraid to push Apple's buttons. But I suspect Apple is not afraid to push back. Could Apple actually use their kill switch for this kind of thing?

No. Consider the number of iOS consumers using the Kindle App. Consider how many would blame Apple and how many would blame Amazon if Apple used the kill switch.

 

[InfernoShade]

Yes, I know the rules.

So, can you explain me the difference between buying a physical book from inside the Amazon app a buying a book from Safari Browser?

Why in the first case Apple doesn't owe a cut and the second is circumvecting something?

That's a good question. Who knows that might change - they might eventually be considered the same. I can't answer it all, and I'm sure people brighter than me are working on it. It's an evolving scenario and Apple is trying to make it work for all parties. Some decisions might be wrong and be changed later. This has already happened a number of times. We'll just have to wait and see.

But at least you seem to understand it better than most. Some people are still complaining about the 70-30, which is good standard business. As I said, most of the people posting in tech forums are technophiles but have very little business sense.

 

[wovel]

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Pretty sure they just need to make the change before submitting an update... Apple is not going to comb the app store looking for things to pull. Who comes up with these waco theories..