Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015?

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deconstruct60

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Mar 10, 2009
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The Xserve sales numbers were a fraction of the Mac Pro sales, ...
If the Mac Pro dips under 50,000 units a year, it might be in trouble. I think Apple is perfectly happy to have the Mac Pro just be a great FCP machine as long as it continues to sell.
Being a one application system is in conflict with continues to sell (well).
FCP runs on other Macs. Over time some users are going to bleed to those other systems. Similarly, there are other apps folks in this workstation class will want to run. The "max market segmentation" of combing a narrow platform app with a even narrowing hardware platform most likely will shrink over time.

With that "FCP is good enough" strategy, the Mac Pro would be on very similar same path as the Xserve ( The Mac only server management tools were suppose to save it... not). What folks largely needed was a server that happened to have some Mac specific services on it; not the other way around.

The Mac Pro is still a 'truck' . It may be a fixed bed pick-up truck (versus a Big rig semi tractor trailer), but if don't have computational horsepower problems then don't really need it. Only covering a large enough breath of computational problem solving is the Mac Pro going to survive long term. OpenCL 2 and AVX2 will open the breath substantially.

Letting the Mac Pro go 'stale' on hardware isn't going to help them hit 60K/yr run rates. They are protected a bit when looking at the moving year average right now because of the 2014 launch bubble driven by pent up demand. The problem Apple will run into in upcoming months is there enough volume to keep the contract manufacturing going at a reasonable (to the contractor) rate.

Apple could go into hibernation until build another > 60K demand bubble again. Just wait 2-3 generations of GPU/CPU technology and then only compare to the system from 2-3 years ago and ... yeah can get "ooh look it is faster" bar graphs pretty easily.

The question is whether folks in those "in between" year(s) are going to wait around while Apple "innovation" amounts to just waiting longer periods of time between upgrades. Apple could just simply follow the even Xeon E5 sequence ( v2 , v4 , v6 ) ,but that strategy is adept at milking a shrinking cash cow pool for 2-3 more iterations than a healthy ecosystem.

The flaw in waiting for any one tech ( CPU , GPU , thunderbolt) to get to some specific version to do a release is that they are on different cycles that won't necessarily align going forward. The computational horsepower of this new design isn't solely dependent upon any one of those. Waiting for a trifecta of all them to update at once is like herding cats.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2009
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(Mercedez will run a Super Bowl ad for a $131,000 car. Think that they'll sell very many?)

Mercedes is running a "ooh look me" commercial at the Super Bowl because everyone else is running a "ooh look me" commercial at the Super Bowl. It has exceeding little to do with products than brand. Up next to the Carl's Jr. 38DD model who happens to bite into a hamburger at the end, commercial with a standard Mercedes driving down a standard street is just a cue to go to the bathroom or get something to eat during the Super Bowl.

This folks are paying $4.5M for 30 seconds. It far more brand management than product sales. Apple builds brand all year long not in a couple of 30 second chunks once a year. The commericials are just like the tickets for the game.... something wealthy folks can blow money on and hang out with other folks with similar "ooh look what I can spend" budgets.

Extremely few folks what the NFL season just because of the Super Bowl. Just like the other extreme "halo" products... it typically is just a vanity spend.
 

handsome pete

macrumors 68000
Aug 15, 2008
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At $4k a pop, yeah, it's a luxury item. This is especially true since plenty of people who bought them use them for things that wouldn't even stress a Mac Mini or an MacBook Air.
No, it's only a luxury item for those people you point out. It's a necessary business expense for those that use it to its full extent.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
6,765
783
Being a one application system is in conflict with continues to sell (well).
FCP runs on other Macs. Over time some users are going to bleed to those other systems. Similarly, there are other apps folks in this workstation class will want to run. The "max market segmentation" of combing a narrow platform app with a even narrowing hardware platform most likely will shrink over time.

With that "FCP is good enough" strategy, the Mac Pro would be on very similar same path as the Xserve ( The Mac only server management tools were suppose to save it... not). What folks largely needed was a server that happened to have some Mac specific services on it; not the other way around.

The Mac Pro is still a 'truck' . It may be a fixed bed pick-up truck (versus a Big rig semi tractor trailer), but if don't have computational horsepower problems then don't really need it. Only covering a large enough breath of computational problem solving is the Mac Pro going to survive long term. OpenCL 2 and AVX2 will open the breath substantially.

Letting the Mac Pro go 'stale' on hardware isn't going to help them hit 60K/yr run rates. They are protected a bit when looking at the moving year average right now because of the 2014 launch bubble driven by pent up demand. The problem Apple will run into in upcoming months is there enough volume to keep the contract manufacturing going at a reasonable (to the contractor) rate.

Apple could go into hibernation until build another > 60K demand bubble again. Just wait 2-3 generations of GPU/CPU technology and then only compare to the system from 2-3 years ago and ... yeah can get "ooh look it is faster" bar graphs pretty easily.

The question is whether folks in those "in between" year(s) are going to wait around while Apple "innovation" amounts to just waiting longer periods of time between upgrades. Apple could just simply follow the even Xeon E5 sequence ( v2 , v4 , v6 ) ,but that strategy is adept at milking a shrinking cash cow pool for 2-3 more iterations than a healthy ecosystem.

The flaw in waiting for any one tech ( CPU , GPU , thunderbolt) to get to some specific version to do a release is that they are on different cycles that won't necessarily align going forward. The computational horsepower of this new design isn't solely dependent upon any one of those. Waiting for a trifecta of all them to update at once is like herding cats.
I don't know the exact Mac Pro sales numbers, but the numbers have been well above the 60k a year mark before.

If Apple discontinued the Mac Pro, I can't see FCPX continuing to last. You'd see a lot of the final FCPX users leave the platform, and yes, while an Retina iMac can run FCPX, I don't think there would be enough people left to justify development. The iMac is a great machine in everything except for GPU, and that's where the Mac Pro has a chance to shine.

I think Apple's next move will really be based on if the nMP is selling better or worse than the oMP. If sales really plummeted, they may step back and rethink things. If sales stayed the same or improved, they'll carry on.

Like the Xserve, you'd have a lot of collateral damage if the Mac Pro was discontinued. With the Xserve, it was Mac OS X Server that really died (although no one was sad.) So asking if Apple is ready to give up on the Mac Pro is really asking if Apple is ready to give up on things like FCPX, deeper OpenCL support, a strong commitment to Thunderbolt, etc.

And, to be perfectly frank, if they want to keep trying to improve their standing in those markets, they have more than enough money to do so. Financial considerations are important, but Apple's will to be in those markets is the bigger driver here.
 

Nosferax

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2014
164
7
No, it's only a luxury item for those people you point out. It's a necessary business expense for those that use it to its full extent.
Nuh-uh... Doesn't make it less a luxury item.

Going by all the threads about playing games on it or editing family photos and video I would say it's a pretty big bunch who bought it only because it was the hip thing to do.
 

handsome pete

macrumors 68000
Aug 15, 2008
1,719
254
Nuh-uh... Doesn't make it less a luxury item.

Going by all the threads about playing games on it or editing family photos and video I would say it's a pretty big bunch who bought it only because it was the hip thing to do.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

For those you mentioned (buying a machine that is largely overkill for their purposes), it's a luxury item.

For those that require the horsepower in order to increase productivity/ROI, it's a need.
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
114
Vancouver, BC
Yep. You said an update was right around the corner. Been saying an update is right around the corner for almost a year now. Intel getting ready to ship this and that. Someday you'll be right. :D

----------



For Apple to do anything it cost them a lot of money...:rolleyes: Why am I trying to teach business to a bunch of "pros". Enjoy waiting and speculating.:D
I've been following and participating in this thread like you but I can't seem to parse what you're suggesting... are you saying an update in the near future is unlikely?
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
6,765
783
I've been following and participating in this thread like you but I can't seem to parse what you're suggesting... are you saying an update in the near future is unlikely?
He seems to think that Apple rev'ing the Mac Pro will cost an significant amount of time and money. Not for any real specific reason. Just... because? Anyway, whoever suggest otherwise "doesn't know what they're talking about" or something. He's convinced Apple would have to retool their entire line.

He also recently bought a Mac Pro and seemed upset by the suggestion that he might not own the newest Mac Pro sooner than latter. Might be connected.

Wasn't Intel spinning down production of Ivy Bridge Xeons anyway?
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
114
Vancouver, BC
Will there be a new MacPro in 2015 ?

He seems to think that Apple rev'ing the Mac Pro will cost an significant amount of time and money. Not for any real specific reason. Just... because? Anyway, whoever suggest otherwise "doesn't know what they're talking about" or something. He's convinced Apple would have to retool their entire line.

He also recently bought a Mac Pro and seemed upset by the suggestion that he might not own the newest Mac Pro sooner than latter. Might be connected.

Wasn't Intel spinning down production of Ivy Bridge Xeons anyway?

I see. I use to think that updating to Haswell wouldn't be worth it on the nMP as it wouldn't offer any significant performance improvements, but then Apple updated the Mini to Haswell (even to the detriment of the top end) so there's clearly no concern over cost or lack of impact in doing an update to cause Apple to skip a generation. I now believe the only reason they might skip a generation is because it's neglected/de-prioritized for so long due to other projects.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2009
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... Wasn't Intel spinning down production of Ivy Bridge Xeons anyway?...
Winding down Xeon E3's v3 ? Yes. Xeon E5's? No. At least not if the whispers about Q1 '16 date for Broadwell-E and Broadwell-EP are on track.
(same "source" here but not particularly surprising given Intel's roll out track record on Xeon E5 class processors over last 5 years. It is a > 12 month cycle. )

".. Unfortunately, the new enthusiast-class chips from Intel will not see the light of the day till the first quarter of 2016, reports Chinese VR-Zone web-site. ... "
http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/intel-delays-broadwell-e-processor-for-high-end-desktops-to-2016/

"... Pre-ES Broadwell-E microprocessors will be available in the second quarter of 2015. "ES" processors are currently planned for the week 36 of 2015, and qualification samples are expected to be available in the week of 47. Production CPUs should be shipping in the first quarter of 2016.
.. "
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014102201_Details_and_launch_date_of_Broadwell-E_CPUs.html

Intel could wind down if have a huge stockpile in the warehouse of them. They probably aren't in peak production but depending upon how many folks buy in next 6 months they may need some more.

If the debug, engineering series go super clean with E5 v4 then perhaps it could slide back into very late 2015, but that typically hasn't happened. If Intel's 14nm Atom/Braswell stuff does well along with the Core products that should keep the 14nm fabs busy while working up to better maturity levels. When 14nm is quite mature then can roll out these very large E5 class dies at higher profit margins. So very early 2016 isn't too surprising. It isn't like AMD is going to speed past them any times soon ( AMD's next arch/process upgrade in this range isn't until mid-late 2016).
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2009
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I don't know the exact Mac Pro sales numbers, but the numbers have been well above the 60k a year mark before.
There is probably a floor under which a Mac Model is a no go. Over 60K/year in 2006-2009? Probably. Over 60K/year for most of 2012-2013? Probably not.

If someone at Apple is comparing the 2013 Mac Pro to the crippled 2011-2013 years then sure it is doing "better". But the machine was doing so badly 2010-2011 that Apple didn't do jack squat to update it.

I suspect they are following some shrink and grow over time strategy. They had already done most of the "shrink" when had gotten to the phase had t pull the Mac Pro from EU market because it was too old. It is definately pragmatically is a new product that is going after a different subset of users than the old one did.


If Apple discontinued the Mac Pro, I can't see FCPX continuing to last. You'd see a lot of the final FCPX users leave the platform, and yes, while an Retina iMac can run FCPX, I don't think there would be enough people left to justify development.
Depends upon where the iMacs are at when drop. Obviously Apple isn't going to drop the Mac Pro right now. Worst case they will milk this model for at least 2 (maybe 3 ) years like they did the last iteration. So it is really where iMacs and their CPU/GPUs will be at 2-3 years from now. If Apple does a E5 v3/v4 upgrade then it is where iMacs will be 4-6 years from now.


For 1080p work the iMac isn't a non starter.


The iMac is a great machine in everything except for GPU, and that's where the Mac Pro has a chance to shine.
Mac Pro has chance to shine when the bulk goes up substantially. The chase into 4-8K RAW is were it has FCPX traction. The notion 30K cameras and massive TB storage arrays are necessary to do "Pro" runs at odds with the major new content distribution mechanisms that are opening up. The most expensive content possible is really not what the vast majority of content consumers are asking for.


I think Apple's next move will really be based on if the nMP is selling better or worse than the oMP. If sales really plummeted, they may step back and rethink things. If sales stayed the same or improved, they'll carry on.
Reportedly there is a weekly Monday morning meeting at Apple where the Execs look at how all the products are doing. I don't think this is a big leap. It isn't just the nMP that is on that metric. Everything else at Apple is on the same treadmill.



Like the Xserve, you'd have a lot of collateral damage if the Mac Pro was discontinued. With the Xserve, it was Mac OS X Server that really died (although no one was sad.)
Not really. From Apple's XServe transition whitepaper...

"... Since its introduction in the fall of 2009, Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server has
become Apple’s most popular server system. ... "
http://www.apple.com/xserve/pdf/L422277A_Xserve_Guide.pdf

"... The new hardware is optimized for Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server, and comes bundled with the operating system software. Previously, users had to spend $500 for the retail box option. For comparison, prior to Snow Leopard, the unlimited user version of Mac OS X Server cost $999. Now, users can pay the same cost and get a Mac mini along with the software.... "
http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/08/apples_new_mac_mini_server_surprise_with_strong_sales_start


The transition to "Server is just an app" has probably muddled things, but the whole notion that OS X Server would completely implode if not hooked into enterprise racks was flawed. OS X Server was never gong to squeeze Llnux or Windows Server out of the vast majority of managed machine rooms. OS X Server deployments went up after the XServe models were decommissioned; not down. It just isn't the holy data center priests that are the primary buyers.


So asking if Apple is ready to give up on the Mac Pro is really asking if Apple is ready to give up on things like FCPX, deeper OpenCL support, a strong commitment to Thunderbolt, etc.
As outlined above. Apple "gives up" when folks stop buying. If the buyers stop they are already at the stage where FCPX isn't good enough ( hence the dubious move of having just one app be justification for a hardware system versus having a more diverse and resilient app system to support it. ), don't believe in Apple's OpenCL stack, and/or aren't buying systems primarily on Thunderbolt capabilities.

The rest of the Mac line up needs OpenCL and Thunderbolt also; if not more. The mainstream Intel Core CPU package line up is increasing core count by adding GPU cores not x86 ones. If have tons of math ops to perform on data if can't employ those GPU cores then are settling in on a plateau. Similar, huge data rates without Thunderbolt are a pain via the alternatives that Apple uses.
The Mac Pro plays no super special role for those two ( the PCIe slots in the old version are/were a rough exchange for TB. ). FCPX needs more than just Mac Pro system sales to remain viable also. if FCPX only could run on the Mac Pro it would be in at least as much trouble if restricted to the others.


And, to be perfectly frank, if they want to keep trying to improve their standing in those markets, they have more than enough money to do so. Financial considerations are important, but Apple's will to be in those markets is the bigger driver here.
The vast majority of Apple's cash horde exists just purely to be there. It has really no influence on current product development other than a measure of "Apple won't go bankrupt any time soon". The will is more so coupled to return on investment. If there are other places to put the same dollars and get a higher return .... that will starve off the Mac Pro from getting new R&D money.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
6,765
783
I had a more detailed reply, but the forum choked and lost it all. So, shorter reply...

If the numbers were critically low (and I don't think they're low enough Apple is losing money, but for the sake of argument) I think Apple would look at retooling the Mac Pro again as a possibility. The old Mac Pro made tons of money. Not iPhone money, but a lot of money. It certainly wasn't operating in the red, and there was demand there. If the nMP wasn't selling well, I think Apple's first thought would be why it wasn't selling as well as the old one, not getting rid of the line entirely.

The problem with the Xserve wasn't the hardware. It was the software and the service. The software might have been fixable, they might have needed to have hired a few engineers, but it could have been done. The service would have been more difficult. Getting a 24/7 worldwide support network off the ground for Xserve wouldn't have been worth the cost. That's in pretty big contrast to the Mac Pro, which printed money for Apple for the longest time, whereas the Xserve was troubled from the day it launched.

(And for that matter, I'll say that I heard the Xserve was on thin ice from the very first year, but Apple continued iterating on it for almost a decade trying to save it. So even if the Mac Pro was in Xserve territory, I still doubt Apple would immediately cut it.)

The Mac Pro's users are Apple's highest profile Mac users. Pros, creatives, and developers for Apple platforms. It's also a flagship machine, and it's recently launched. Even assuming they never sold a single one, and they had no interest in trying to fix possible issues, would it be worth $10-$20 million a year in loses to keep important users and developers on board, and prevent high profile bad press? That's an easy "yes." If they spun down the Mac Pro, they'd lose more in stock value than they would ever have on the Mac Pro. Which isn't to say they'd lose much in stock, as much as it is to say that the cost of keeping the Mac Pro going is fairly insignificant.
 

Machines

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2015
426
88
Fox River Valley , Illinois
Hi there...

I currently have a MacPro 2010 (Mid 2010), 2 x 2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon with 64 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC + 512GB SSD Drive with QTY 3 x 2TB internal drives.

I am looking to upgrade to the new cylindrical MacPro but I'm worried a refresh is very much around the corner. I usually invest in a new MacPro to last me for the next 4-5 years, so I don't want to jump in too soon this year if there's a strong chance that a new, improved version is just around the corner.

There's nothing wrong with my current machine... I'm running OSX Yosemite 10.10.1 and I'm using a ASUS Bluetooth 4.0 Dongle in conjunction with Continuity Activation Tool to get me all my Handoff/Continuity features.... so I'm right up to speed... but as a given I usually upgrade my machines every 5 years at the max to keep up with new technology etc...

I'm a traditional style graphic designer... my core apps would still be Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, QuarkXpress 10.5 (soon to be 64bit QuarkXpress 2015). I use Final Cut Pro really for personal/home movie editing, nothing really commercial. I do alot of large format design... 10ft x 6ft corporate graphics artworks, so I do need a workhorse... but I'm not a 4K hogging Video/Animator :).

Last time round I bought my MacPro at the very highest level I could go.... this time round... after some serious research, I realised I bought way over what I needed... so I'm hoping my new MacPro won't need to cost me as much. Any other similar designers out there willing to let me know what spec they went for... to be able to work effectively with similar apps to what I have.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.


Regards,
Anthony

Irish MacUser & MacAddict
Hey Anthony , You don't mention what your installed video card is . I imagine a video card upgrade would prove valuable for all your apps .

In as far as the current nMP 2013 goes, it already has the fastest processor it can have in the 12 Core version . The Xeons released after Ivy are not socket compatible , so the Black Tube is a true appliance .

In as far as the next Mac Pro model is concerned , I predict the Broadwell-EP Xeons will be released fourth quarter 2015 and a dual socket , large tower Broadwell Xeon Mac Pro released in first quarter 2016 . She'll have as many as 36 Cores and despite the 14 nm process the chips will run hot (140 TDP) . The small cylinder form factor will disappear just like the G4 Cube did . Workstations are meant to be big and powerful - not to have a form factor that shrinks to the size of a can of soda .
 

lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,155
6,312
North Country (way upstate NY)
I had a more detailed reply, but the forum choked and lost it all. So, shorter reply...

If the numbers were critically low (and I don't think they're low enough Apple is losing money, but for the sake of argument) I think Apple would look at retooling the Mac Pro again as a possibility. The old Mac Pro made tons of money. Not iPhone money, but a lot of money. It certainly wasn't operating in the red, and there was demand there. If the nMP wasn't selling well, I think Apple's first thought would be why it wasn't selling as well as the old one, not getting rid of the line entirely.

The problem with the Xserve wasn't the hardware. It was the software and the service. The software might have been fixable, they might have needed to have hired a few engineers, but it could have been done. The service would have been more difficult. Getting a 24/7 worldwide support network off the ground for Xserve wouldn't have been worth the cost. That's in pretty big contrast to the Mac Pro, which printed money for Apple for the longest time, whereas the Xserve was troubled from the day it launched.

(And for that matter, I'll say that I heard the Xserve was on thin ice from the very first year, but Apple continued iterating on it for almost a decade trying to save it. So even if the Mac Pro was in Xserve territory, I still doubt Apple would immediately cut it.)

The Mac Pro's users are Apple's highest profile Mac users. Pros, creatives, and developers for Apple platforms. It's also a flagship machine, and it's recently launched. Even assuming they never sold a single one, and they had no interest in trying to fix possible issues, would it be worth $10-$20 million a year in loses to keep important users and developers on board, and prevent high profile bad press? That's an easy "yes." If they spun down the Mac Pro, they'd lose more in stock value than they would ever have on the Mac Pro. Which isn't to say they'd lose much in stock, as much as it is to say that the cost of keeping the Mac Pro going is fairly insignificant.
While this is tangential to that statement I need to sort of spit it out. The company I work for uses Dell servers and HP workstations I'm one of two people of the 450 employed in my area that uses a Mac. We have a business account with Apple and that lets me drop off a machine to be fixed and they'll give me a machine on loan to use until mine is fixed it's a really nice service. The issues come to the fore when I have a smaller problem like I did last week Thursday; my bluetooth is out on my Mac so on lunch I pop into the Apple store to get an appointment to have the computer looked at the gent taking appointments says I don't have a tech to look at you machine until Wednesday So I ask for my rep she comes out and says I'm really sorry but out Mac Pro tech is on out until Wednesday so I can't get you in before. Being that this is nothing more than a bluetooth issue it's not a big deal having said that neither our HP nor Dell rep would ever say that, a tech would be there in the usual three hours to fix the issue. That seems like an unhanded ding on Apple but I don't mean it that way I just mean that Apple simply doesn't do the necessary server type support needed for always up environments whether it's be beneficial is a debate for another time.
 

MacProCard

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2014
299
13
He seems to think that Apple rev'ing the Mac Pro will cost an significant amount of time and money. Not for any real specific reason. Just... because? Anyway, whoever suggest otherwise "doesn't know what they're talking about" or something. He's convinced Apple would have to retool their entire line.

He also recently bought a Mac Pro and seemed upset by the suggestion that he might not own the newest Mac Pro sooner than latter. Might be connected.

Wasn't Intel spinning down production of Ivy Bridge Xeons anyway?
And some people think Apple just updates their products based upon what technology is available. Some basic economic concepts are useless to Apple because they care about each and everyone of you individually. :D And would never want to lose you as a customer. :D Oh but wait, they just posted the largest earnings in history of all corporations. Wonder how they did that? :cool:
 

DougTheImpaler

macrumors 6502a
Feb 28, 2006
558
49
Central Illinois
There will probably be a new Mac Pro in 2015, but there are some things worth noting:

Haswell-E performance compared to Ivy Bridge-E are not nearly as big as the change from Nehalem/Westmere -> Sandy Bridge-E -> Ivy Bridge-E that the current Mac Pro represents.

If you're not doing a ton of video work where external RAID arrays are necessary, I don't think Thunderbolt2 will hold you back

It's far less expensive to upgrade to get the current model with ECC DDR3-1866 than it is to do the same thing with ECC-DDR4. Since you use a computer for so long, that may not be that big of a consideration, I guess.

Personally if I were in the market for a Mac Pro I'd wait until the :apple:Watch event (surely there will be an event) to see if one gets introduced alongside the watch and/or the 12" Macbook Air. That's where I'd expect to see it introduced if one is going to be introduced before WWDC.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
6,765
783
There will probably be a new Mac Pro in 2015, but there are some things worth noting:

Haswell-E performance compared to Ivy Bridge-E are not nearly as big as the change from Nehalem/Westmere -> Sandy Bridge-E -> Ivy Bridge-E that the current Mac Pro represents.

If you're not doing a ton of video work where external RAID arrays are necessary, I don't think Thunderbolt2 will hold you back
I think Haswell-E will bring higher core counts, which will bring a decent performance upgrade. I'd be surprised to see Thunderbolt 3 as part of this revision, but it would be a happy surprise.

The biggest thing I think we'll see if new GPUs that will bring a huge performance gain.
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
114
Vancouver, BC
I think Haswell-E will bring higher core counts, which will bring a decent performance upgrade. I'd be surprised to see Thunderbolt 3 as part of this revision, but it would be a happy surprise.

The biggest thing I think we'll see if new GPUs that will bring a huge performance gain.
Haswell-EP as far as Mac Pro's are concerned brings pretty much the same CPUs at the same price points as Ivy with a couple of exceptions.

There's no change in the 4 or 6-core CPU pricing which probably makes up the bulk of nMP's sold.

In the 8-core category there is now a cheaper 3.0GHz part and a similarly priced slightly faster (3.2GHz) part. Apple could therefore either lower the price of the 8-core systems, or keep the pricing the same with a higher performing part.

At the top end, an equivalent to the current 12-core CPU is available at a reduced price or there's now a 14-core option at the same price. So again, Apple could opt to provide more cores for the same high-end price point, or lower the price of the top config.

The new AMD W9100 workstation GPUs offer a 20% improvement in raw TFLOP performance over the previous W9000s that formed the basis of the D700s in the nMP. However, the new GPUs run hotter which may mean a more aggressive down-clock to meet the nMP thermal requirements.

And as many people have stated, there's no chance of TB3 in the near future.

----------

Haswell-E performance compared to Ivy Bridge-E are not nearly as big as the change from Nehalem/Westmere -> Sandy Bridge-E -> Ivy Bridge-E that the current Mac Pro represents.
This is absolutely correct... http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=20058469&postcount=78
 

edanuff

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2008
318
80
Personally if I were in the market for a Mac Pro I'd wait until the :apple:Watch event (surely there will be an event) to see if one gets introduced alongside the watch and/or the 12" Macbook Air. That's where I'd expect to see it introduced if one is going to be introduced before WWDC.
If it's a major update, I'd bet it gets announced at WWDC, which is the closest thing Apple has to an event for professional users. If they do it at the Watch event, it's at best a footnote, and at worst a distraction from the key consumer fashion themes. The other possibility is that there's some sort of second event after the Watch that's an "Apple at Work" sort of theme and has the iPad Pro, the Retina Air, and the Mac Pro, but I'm still betting on WWDC as the Pro event.
 

prowlmedia

Suspended
Jan 26, 2010
1,585
707
London
At $4k a pop, yeah, it's a luxury item. This is especially true since plenty of people who bought them use them for things that wouldn't even stress a Mac Mini or an MacBook Air.
No it's not! It's not even an expensive workstation!

I agree that some people 'may' buy them and never actually need the power. I've said this before these ( and many current PC workstations ) are as powerful as Super computers from 2003! Which is insane.

But to say it is a luxury item is utterly wrong. Would you say that a Truck Driver is being extravagant with his $100,000 Rig or a Taxi driver with his $25,000 Sedan! Or A $50,000 Red camera?

Apple are selling most of these to people like me that actually need them and earn money from them!

And they are dirt cheap. I made my money back on my $8K nMacPro one in less than 2 weeks. I've had £25,000 (pounds not Dollars) workstations that would be out run by a 4 year old macbook air now.
 

edanuff

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2008
318
80
Apple are selling most of these to people like me that actually need them and earn money from them!
Do you have a source for that? I've tried to find any public market stats on the Pro and haven't found anything reported about unit volume, let alone a breakdown of the type of users. In the cMP days, the truck analogy might have held, but the nMP may be more of a luxury SUV in terms of the range of what it's being used for.
 

MacProCard

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2014
299
13
Do you have a source for that? I've tried to find any public market stats on the Pro and haven't found anything reported about unit volume, let alone a breakdown of the type of users. In the cMP days, the truck analogy might have held, but the nMP may be more of a luxury SUV in terms of the range of what it's being used for.
You can get one for $2999. Not really breaking the bank with this purchase. I'd even suggest that Apple customers tend to be more affluent than most since all Apple products seem to be on the high side of pricing.

FWIW, they just destroyed the earnings record, so things must be going good. I'd wager that a nMP has something to do with that record..as well as the iPhone 6. Don't really see where adding this or that to the nMP is a true need at the moment. They seem to be riding high.
 

dawnrazor

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2008
169
6
Auckland New Zealand
I faced the same debate last year, we knew we needed to replace a Linux workstation and that a 2013 Mac Pro was an option, but we really didn't want to early adopt a nMP, so we waited as long as we could, so long in fact that we worried that a second gen nMP was around the corner. In the end we just went for it and ordered a 12 core and haven't looked back, for anyone doing realtime HD video or higher you will certainly make give this puppy a work out. I've had the activity monitor maxed out during a render including all core hyper treading over 90%.

Personally I'd like to see a 10GiG native, TB3, DDR4, not fussed about a new chip it runs pretty fast as it is. The next generation D700 replacements would be welcome... Can't see it all happening though.
 

hugodrax

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2007
890
133
Thank you all.... incredible comments, suggestions and information. I think based on these comments I will hold off for now... really I think I was just getting bored at that metallic tower box.. :) and looking for a new toy that I could justify buying since it was 5 years since my last splurge... but it would be an expense toy and one that would deliver the jump in speed and productivity that I would hope it would be... and that's based on the comments here and based on the many other replies from the same posting that I made on other MacPro thread/forums.

Thanks again guys for taking the time out to reply to my question... it's very much appreciated and valued!!


Regards,
Anthony
Use the money and spend it on a nice vacation instead.
 

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