Will they update the iPod Touch this year?

Discussion in 'iPod touch' started by apolloa, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. smorrissey macrumors 65816

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    #101
    Exactly. LOL. but wait iOS 9 could be the next messiah performing the miracle to resurrect the ipod touch 5 from the hardware disposal...

    Apple is not interested on people keeping their old hardware like the iphone 4s, they want you to buy new one, they are an enterprise not charity.
     
  2. loon3y macrumors 65816

    loon3y

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    #102
    please see the post before because i didnt quote you on here



    yeah, just had to install my app on a staff's iPad 2 because she lost the iPad 3 we supplied her iPad (has 1GB of ram, a bit faster chip)


    yeah just tested safari just to see the speed since we're all involved in the subject and i waited 30 seconds after i selected the URL textfield waiting for the keyboard to come up.

    i didnt wait to see when it did, i don't have time. then i compiled the my app on here.


    after 6 minutes it didnt work, so i had to compile again and waited another 3.


    not to mention it stalls on the passcode for 30 seconds sometimes


    yeah, i think this solves the debate here.
     
  3. TRDmanAE86 macrumors 6502

    TRDmanAE86

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    #103
    In our house, my brother has the iPad 2. He was a holdout till las October, iOS 7.1 randomly bricked it thus, the Apple Store updated it to 8.0.2:(. Now, it is running mediocre on 8.3. At this point, the lag is ok but, bearable.



    Last week I ran a speed test with 3 4S's. Mine was on iOS 6 (only one that was not stock and, filled up with my data), the other was on iOS 7 and, the last one was on iOS 8.3

    Out of all of them, even though it was full, my 4S with iOS 6 was the fastest. You see, the newer the major version of iOS the more ram it requires to run. The iOS 8 4S was a nightmare:(! There is no way that iOS 9 will support a dying 4S. Usually with Apple, the last iOS version released to a device slows it down thus, it coaxes the market to go buy a new one.
     
  4. loon3y macrumors 65816

    loon3y

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    #104


    pretty much marketing 101, they can make cars last substantially longer, but why would they?


    ^ oldmac!
     
  5. TRDmanAE86 macrumors 6502

    TRDmanAE86

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    #105



    After thinking about this while I'm supposed to be studying for finals:rolleyes:, I have come up with a conclusion biased on the extraordinary content found in this thread. There are 6 different theories that could happen with iOS 9 and the possible release of the iPod Touch 5th generation. This is a pattern that is irregular so, many questions are up in the air.


    First theory--> iOS 9 is a improvement on distributing ram to the correct tasks overall, speeding up the device. (while working on other major improvements)

    Second Theory--> iOS 9 will try to distribute ram efficently but/ Apple again jumps the gun and, sets there expectations too high AGAIN (Example: Early iOS 8 "Health Kit"? fiasco [Dev's had to remove there apps from the App Store until it was resolved])


    iPod Theories
    Third Theory... Apple is continuing the legacy of killing the iPod Touch. They have given the Touch 5G meidiocre specs to continue to a logical reason to its demise. (They may not even give the iPod 5th gen iOS 9 [Remember how the iPod Touch 4G was maxed out at 6.1.6 while its sister the iPhone 4 ran up till 7.1.2?])

    Fourth Theory... Apple is telling the truth and, has put there priority on iPhones. However, they will suprise us at WWDC?


    iOS Theories

    Theory 5: Due to trying to phase out devices, (Remember the iPad 2, and the iPhone 4S are like the only? devices without a lightning cable running iOS 8?) They may try to stop having these devices included in the lineup to careen everyone to a lightning cable device? (Good profit strategy. They changed to a lightning cable mainly because, Apple wanted to charge more money for a new cable [the older prong ones were becoming more common and, the price of them was rapidly decreasing])


    Theory 6.
    Apple wants to give the longest selling iPad 2 a second life. This could be the end and, one of its last software updates for there most popular iPad. Remember, more updates = more money.

    Or, Apple could make the specs simular. iOS 9 could be the true iOS 8 in preformance! Thus, all of the supported devices would be transitioned over?
     
  6. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #106
    The point is that poor performance on A5 devices is not totally down to the device itself. iOS 8 is broadly recognised to perform badly on everything, if its so poorly coded that it runs like rubbish on newer devices. I've restored my iPad Mini 2 and the problems persist, and I'm not alone in that. This is probably why Apple is focusing on performance with iOS 9. Also If you would read what I said, I'm arguing that iOS 9 would have small improvements on A5 devices, not massive ones.
    You've just highlighted my point. All sources currently point towards the fact that Apple is developing iOS 9 as a release that will focus on speed and efficiency rather than adding new features. iOS 8 is a dog on all devices, so again its not totally down to hardware imitations.

    We're talking about mobile hardware here. And this is a terrible comparison. Microsoft has worked on optimising its operating system such that it runs on older devices quite well, and has been doing so for the last couple of years. Anything that ran Windows 7 can run Windows 10, and quite well may I add.

    A better comparison would be Android. Surprise Surprise, Google has Lollipop (And take into consideration that Android is meant to be a power hog OS) running on devices with 512 MB of ram. It even runs alright on devices older than the 4S. Again, a big part of the limitation with apple's A5 devices is poor optimisation in iOS 8.



    I work in IT support alongside many people who use A5 devices just fine. Perhaps A5 devices don't work well in an App development work place, but saying they "don't work in the workplace" is rubbish. So many schools around here are using iPad 2s with little issue.

    My iPad 2 is just an average 2011 iPad 2, theres very little variation. I have around 200 apps on it, and I do a clean install around every year.


    Must be something wrong with those devices. I've just tested multiple iPad 2s and a 4S and no random lag at the passcode. Perhaps you need to give your devices a clean install. Or turn off some of the power sapping unnecessary features.

    Also I work with PDFs regularly and have never had an issue..

    I can tell you right now that they will have an optimisation team regardless of if they support the A5 devices or not. How do you think iOS performance has improved on these devices across iOS 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 if there was no optimisation team?

    Also lets remember that the whole of iOS 9 is going to probably be a huge exercise in optimisation, so there will be an optimisation team.


    Apple has always supported its older products in the past to some extent. Tim Cook said only recently that a big part of buying an Apple product was that their product got updates. Also besides one instance, apple has always given 1 year of support after they stop selling a device, so I see no reason for them to stop now, especially as some people would be buying these older devices on that assumption.


    You're wrong, as the iPad Mini 1 sold extremely well in the last quarter. The Mini 1 is a 2.5 year old product and people have bought it (and continue to use it and the iPad 2 in large numbers) as they obviously still work for what people need them for. The iPod Touch 5 is still selling, otherwise it wouldn't still be for sale.

    Apple seem to have been pretty successful in improving performance on the A5 devices through iOS 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3. Lets remember that iOS 9 is going to need a huge amount of optimisation in all areas anyway. It performs poorly on pretty much everything. Also A5 devices are not yet obsolete. They still work well for a large segment of the market so that is not obsolete.



    Well ignoring your elitist view on who likes what hardware, I know plenty of adults on iPad Mini 1s and iPad Mini 2s. Again the sales of the Mini 1 also say something different to what you're claiming here.
     
  7. smorrissey macrumors 65816

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    #107
    Man you answered to all of us! :eek:

    I just want to say that i have an ipad air 2 with 2GB RAM and although it came with an annoying pop sound, after ios 8.3 was released the issue was solved and i can't complain about its peformance. IOS 8.3 doesn't perform bad in all Apple newer devices.

    In comparison my old ipod touch 5, crashes and restarts whenever im performing 2 actions at the same time, like listening music and browsing -> lack of memory.
     
  8. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #108
    Again, iOS 9 is not going to suddenly make the iPod Touch 5 as fast as new again, but Apple will have failed if they can't get it to run even marginally better. iOS 8 is a disaster on pretty much everything, so the improvements in coding they need to make to get it working better on newer devices (namely fixing how much ram it uses) will help its performance on older device.

    Your staff member needs to do a clean install. That is something that people have to do on devices of any age when they slow down, not just older devices. That sort of performance is not normal. Safari does not take that long. On the two iPad 2s I have in front of me (And one is my Father's which has never been clean installed, just upgraded from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 and its about 3-4 seconds for the keyboard to come up in the URL bar from a clean start.

    Stalling at the passcode is not normal. Of the hundreds of devices I've seen, I've never seen that, not to mention the videos on youtube that shows iOS 8 performance on older devices and that never happens. Obviously the software on that iPad 2 is corrupt in some way.

    ----------

    I should have said all devices bar the iPad Air 2.

    However that is still not good enough. iOS 8 should run well on devices with 1 GB of ram, yet the iPhone 6 lags and jitters. The iPad Air 1 and Air 2 are a disaster.

    Why? Apple rushed iOS 8 and did not put time into getting ram usage down low. This is the reason that it runs better on 2GB devices. However if Apple still sells 2 of its flagship 2014 products with 1 GB of ram, so iOS 8 should be able to run well on those two products.

    I think that the Safari tab reloading is one of the biggest tel tale signs of poor ram usage in iOS 8. It wasn't a problem in iOS 7 on 1 GB Ram devices, but it is now and is purely a result of terrible optimisation in terms of ram usage.

    ----------

    Have you gone through and set your iPod up so it runs better? EG turning off background app refreshing and auto updates etc? I have 5-6 family members on the iPod Touch 5 and trust me I'd hear about it if performance was that bad for all of them.

    I can certainly do both on my iPad 2, which I am typing on now while listening to music.
     
  9. TRDmanAE86, May 19, 2015
    Last edited: May 19, 2015

    TRDmanAE86 macrumors 6502

    TRDmanAE86

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    #109
    Wow really? I have that same passcode glitch on my iPad Air running 7.1.2. ()
    -passcode works normally if already booted up
    -happens after a hard reboot or, restarting
    - I enter my password (normal or complex) and the screen freezes from 30 seconds to 3 minutes

    -iPad restarts all by itself
    - good to go


    Trust me it gets annoying real quick. Restore using iTunes just like Oldmac says.



    With my brother's iPad 2, I had to do a lot of optimization to speed it up.

    Usually, the biggest ram hogs is the Paralax wallpaper, auto update apps, and even location services (under the advanced tab of privacy)

    There are many more ways to speed it up

    ----------

    True. I'm sorry for not reading your post.

    Overall, when your iPad finishes updating, it needs to be optimized for performance and battery life. I just got off the phone with my friend and his iPod Touch 5G. He said without optimization, it was bad. However, with it, it was no longer a slouch!

    Hopefully, just like you said, iOS 9 will be more powerful and, RAM EFFICENT:cool:
     
  10. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #110


    Exactly, its not just A5 devices that are slow and laggy, Apple's recent iOS releases have been very ram inefficient. And yes, On all my devices I turn off background app refresh and the location services I don't need and a few other settings like auto update apps and parallax. If you're really desperate you can turn off motion and transparency which can help as well.



    ----------


    Oh don't worry, that post wasn't directed to you :p Wasn't meaning to be rude or anything.

    I agree, that A5 devices can be a bit slow without a bit of settings tweaking but are fine afterwards for most people's usage. If A5 devices were that terrible nobody would be using them, when especially on the iPad side, large numbers of people are.
     
  11. loon3y macrumors 65816

    loon3y

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    #111
    Yeah, im not going to sit down for 30 to an hour minutes trying to optimize old iPad to work better. Not to mention if i have to optimize the App, that would take days for something that people aren't going to use anymore.


    Not to mention the lag just isn't reasonable for work. I don't have the time to optimize our apps from crashing (limiting EVERY function to 200MB of ram). Its a waste of my customers time and their customers time.


    Schools is not a business. Customers (as in my customer's customer, or hell in the case i show a demo of all of our app using an iPad 2) Showing an iPad 2 with sluggish features about the app and taking time to take orders, do PDM isn't a good look. Neither for them or us.


    i wouldn't say I'm elitist, but come on thats like saying yeah kids don't mind getting the PS2 over the PS4. (considering the iPad 2 is non retina).

    But even investment wise, if I'm buying an iPad, am i going to buy an iPad Mini one thats a bit cheaper or since I'm spending couple hundred dollars anyways, spend a little bit more and have something thats going to last a bit longer.



    But again i just don't see Apple supporting these devices in the next OS.

    But thats just me. As for the work place, yeah the performance of these devices just don't cut it.


    But i am still working with the iPod Touch trying to optimize it since, well most don't want to spend $700 dollars on an off contract iPhone when they can get an iPod for $200. (When they do get it they have to pay an app licensing fee per device and the linea pro barcode/creditcard sleeve which is couple hundred more expensive then the iPod itself)


    They need to drop this Model and update the iPod touch.
     
  12. oldmacs, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015

    oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #112
    If you can't be bothered to spend 5 or so minutes to turn off unnecessary features in iOS 8 to improve performance than thats your problem. Don't complain about lag then. Also I don't care if your App is not optimised for my iPad. I don't need to use it. A5 users (read more than half of the iPad users) will just give their support to a different APP.

    Choose whatever you want. The proof is there that a lot of consumers are perfectly happy with their A5 devices. A5 devices are also fine for many workplaces.

    Not supporting these devices is a crazy idea given that iOS 9 will be a bug fix release as far as we know. Plus they're already running iOS 9 on the 4S at apple. In addition to that they still sell two A5 devices so support for them is pretty much guaranteed.

    We're also not talking about kids. Kids aren'g part of this argument. We're talking about consumers in general and A5 devices are fine with many consumers. Retina displays don't even matter to some people. People buy Apple as they expect a long lasting device, as Apple devices are premium devices. If Apple want to sell their iPad Mini 1 as a device that won't last long than they should, by labelling them as such, but they're not. Apple store employees essentially just sell the newer iPad Minis as 'a bit faster and with a better screen", so many consumers do not know what they're buying.

    The performance might not cut it for your workplace but it does for many others. And yes a school is a workplace. Just because it doesn't cut it for your workplace doesn't mean its suddenly obsolete and that Apple should drop it.

    They sure do need to replace the Touch 5, but they also need to look after their existing customers.
     
  13. loon3y macrumors 65816

    loon3y

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    #113



    did i not just say that it will take days to optimize it for the A5 devices? If even possible.




    Again, I'm going to optimize iPad 2s when they're already discontinued and unsupported in the near future?

    512 MB of ram? you think thats fine in the business world? lol thats like having SQL Server using only 8GB of ram.


    The customers don't pay us to optimize their old iPads that are nearly unworkable.


    Restoring those iPads that you claim have a "corrupt" iOS installation is not a 5 minute job.


    Getting a new iPad like the iPad Air 2, that doubles the processor speed, GPU speed, and double the ram, thats going to last for probably as long as the current iPad to lasted is a much better option.

    The iPad 2 can't handle syncing high resolution images from a server. Not to mention it crashes multiple times because of memory issues using SIMPLE iOS functions.


    its just not reasonable, thats like saying why doesn't every corporate office use Slow old computers, it still works ok right?

    Its just a waste of time, and time is precious. Especially in the business world.




    I guess your name fits you. Consumers don't know? I'm born in 1989 I'm 25 years old.

    My generation grew up with technology, when they buy a computer or device they make sure its a good invesment.

    Now your talking about kids that grew up with these tablet devices.



    A regular consumer isn't going to buy an iPad Mini 1, iPad 2, or an iPod Touch 5.

    An average consumer makes well enough to afford the latest of these devices.

    There is no Elite POV of it, thats just a fact. And school is a completely different work place than the majority of the business world. I mean i work with Apparel companies, but i've met with manufacturers of all sorts.

    Time is money. You have these crappy devices, people don't want to use them and it wastes time. How stupid are you going to look when a Customer comes in and you show them your Mobile Device system and it locks up or gets stuck? Especially at trade shows when there are many booths so if it locks up and gets stuck "oh ill come back later" and they give their orders to their direct competitor.


    You may have patience in an educational institute, but the business world is a cut throat business.
     
  14. oldmacs, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015

    oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #114
    You said that you wouldn't spend 5 minutes to turn off a few features to make one of these devices perform better. Also a corrupt iOS install can happen on any device. That performance is not normal.

    Oh bloody hell. 512 MB of ram may be bad for your business BUT NOT FOR ALL BUSINESSES. Most business I've come into contact with over the years are content to have their employees on XP machines, as they still do the job. Same thing with older iOS devices.

    Consumers do not know, or are content with the iPad Mini 1. Otherwise why did the Mini 1 outsell the iPad Mini 2 and 3 last quarter? The average consumer does not know. Because yes I know many regular consumers who have bought an A5 device in the last year. Many regular consumers buy lower end devices as they don't have the money. Of the consumers I support regularly, most average consumers know nothing about what generation of what they're buying. People associate iPad = good and will last a long time.

    Again your business is not the entire world. You'd be crazy to claim that. Many businesses use iOS devices for basic email,web browsing. Simple stuff. An A5 device can clearly handle simple stuff like that. I have family members who work in corporate environments. And wanna guess which iPad they have? oh surpassingly the iPad 2. It suits them fine.

    20 - 25 percent of iPad users are on iPad 2s. A further 20-25 are on the iPad Mini 1( The number has actually risen across 2014), so clearly these people do not have a problem. I recognise that you have a problem in your workplace as you demand high performance, but for many businesses, schools, universities, homes and other places the A5 devices work fine.

    Saying that your workplace can't work with A5 devices is not a justification for them dropping devices which they currently sell, thus ripping off the many consumers who have bought them in the last 6 months, and are still buying them at the moment.

    Thats like saying that the Macbook Air doesn't suit a video studio, so apple should drop the Macbook Air from support.

    I don't disagree with the fact that these devices don't work well in some businesses, what you're saying but you are being elitist here, palming off what I have seen and experienced.

    How about we stop arguing. Its really gonna do no good, as we both have very different ideas here.
     
  15. loon3y macrumors 65816

    loon3y

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    #115

    For the bold: thats not using mobile devices for Businesses. Using mobile devices for businesses is having B2B apps, customized for your company. Whether its downloading images of your products to show on your iPad (high resolution obviously or whats the point, which the A5 Devices cannot handle) Converting Invoices, orders to PDF format and sending it to the main system and SQL server, uploading high resolution images, sending them through the server, etc etc etc. Scanning for inventory, scan and pack for logistics.

    Thats using mobile devices for businesses. Using an iPad to send emails and basic stuff like that is not an using mobile apps for business. Thats not a Business integrated system. Nothings linked, nothing is automated.

    Most business industries don't have time wait on old devices, thats why they continue to upgrade. They upgrade their cubicle desktops, their mobile devices, Servers, etc etc. Whether its banking, fashion, tools, cars, what ever it maybe because they use servers, everyone uses databases.




    Regular consumers as in who? i really have to know your age range to really get what kind of consumer base your talking about.Younger people and kids know the tech specs. We grew up with computers, younger kids grew up with smartphones and tablets.


    Why wouldn't they Drop the A5 devices? obviously the individuals that buy it don't care about the latest devices or OS. Otherwise they'd either know or do some homework before dropping money on it. Not to mention every OS up to date has made it slower on every previous device.



    The thing is theres no sense, to optimize and for an obsolete device that isn't going to have much of lifespan and which can't handle a lot of the functions that the current models can do.



    Whats more cost efficient then paying labor, like what apple would be doing to do optimize for the A5 devices having a team working on the OS. Or just dropping the model and forcing them to buy the newer models. The answer is quite clear.



    Its a waste of time for the developer, waste of time for my customer and costly if they want to optimize it for that old device. That labor that they're gonna request with all the programming changes is going to be cost of 2-3 iPad Air 2s.

    The customer isn't going to pay me $125 (i don't get the full $125, just the company rate for support, and $125 isn't part of the programming labor involved) an hour to update their inventory of iPad 2s to optimize for them + plus the hours i spent to do what i actually came to do. There is no elite point of view, its just common sense.


    i come across XP at work too, all they do is one function like printing, because you'd have to go through hell linking it to a newer computer with a newer OS because the printer is so old. whether it be a barcode label printer, huge laser, etc etc. Thats the only thing they use it for, those computers they bought back then can't nearly work with todays technology, technology as in the most recent programs that have more features, and I'm not talking about basic programs, im talking about ERPs, PLM, etc etc.


    We both have very different ideas because we're in both different environments, i agree.

    But the main topic was about apple dropping support for A5 devices on the next iOS. Which i do not agree with you, we can just leave it at that.

    Its not more to prove you wrong, its just letting you on an insight of how difficult it is to work with these older devices with 512MB of ram. Hey if the A5 devices were able to have 1 GB of ram, i wouldn't be saying any of this.
     
  16. TRDmanAE86 macrumors 6502

    TRDmanAE86

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    #116
    Thank you for the sugestion:) I am now no longer arguing. Back on topic, I believe that if there is another iPod, it will not come with a A5 chip. It may come with that new A7 processor and, at least 2 gb of ram. I also guess that if released, there will be a 4.7 and a 5.5 inch options.

    Besides that, I think it would be cool to come with radio capacities. A SD card also must be a must!:)
     
  17. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #117
    I think It will be A8.... I think :p
     
  18. ackmondual macrumors 65816

    ackmondual

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    #118
    Well, thanks to Samsung, it's 2 steps forward, 3 steps back....
    They've done away with the user replaceable battery and the expansion card slot. Basically, 2 of the main attractions that got me to go Android for my smartphone. When my Galaxy s4 dies, I'm either going to buy a new battery to replace it, or just buy another one.
     
  19. smorrissey macrumors 65816

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    #119
    Also for those pro ipt5 + ios9 don't forget the battery life, batteries are not eternal, if you bought your ipod touch 5 yesterday you don't have to worry about that matter but if you bought the device as soon as it was available (2012) don't talk to me about ios 9 giving new life to this piece of junk, no way.
     
  20. TRDmanAE86 macrumors 6502

    TRDmanAE86

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    #120
    Same. Was about to buy a S6 until i realized it was messed up. Right now looking for another android that has a removeable battery, Micro SD and a fingerprint reader that works!
     
  21. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #121
    I never said it was going to suddenly make battery life magically better.

    Just because its an old battery doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a release.

    My 2011 iPad 2 still gets 18 hours of battery life, so yeah...
     
  22. ackmondual macrumors 65816

    ackmondual

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    #122
    I got my IpT5 new back around Aug. 2013. It's noticeably less reliable in its battery life...
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1861755

    Still, I think the point was valid. At that point, you may just want to cut your losses if the frequency of charging ends up being something you don't want to deal with anymore.

    And is an ipad even a practical example? Tablets are supposed to get much longer battery life due to having a higher capacity anyways. Folks need to charge their Ipads for 5 hours at a time, but then can use them 3 to 7 days before having to recharge them again.
     
  23. smorrissey, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015

    smorrissey macrumors 65816

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    #123
    I've never said that you said that. I'm only saying you should take that into account.

    iOS 9 won't revive the ipod touch 5 the way you are expecting.

    Your ipad 2 has a 6,944 mA·h battery, you said 18 hours? ok, the ipod touch 5 is 1030mA. 2.6 hours of battery life! wow! and if you browse all the time or watch youtube videos a beautiful 1.5 hours.

    Exactly. The best example is Web content, each year you have more and more stuff in a page, power processing gets more demanding, old processors work harder and battery suffer more, there's not a magic OS that could solve that. Specially on current games.

    Also good luck asking the developers to program special light editions of the most recent successful apps for that old device.

    This might be more interesting, personally i don't believe anything till i see it:

     
  24. oldmacs macrumors 601

    oldmacs

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    #124
    Why are you convinced that I think that the iPod Touch 5 is gonna get some massive improvement.

    What I've said that you'd get a small/mild improvement (possibly back to iOS 7 speeds) with improved memory management. I assume that iOS 9 will focus on things like memory management, as iOS 8 has memory management issues.

    I'd highly doubt the Touch 5 would get 2.6 Hours of battery life unless it had been complexity thrashed. My Touch 4 is from September 2010 and it still gets 4 hours.
     
  25. smorrissey macrumors 65816

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    #125
    Sorry mate even that small/mild improvement can't save the device. That's why many of us would like an ipod touch 6.

    Regarding the 2.6 hours of battery life that's pretty much the equivalent for your 18 hours on your ipad 2, simple maths.
     

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