"Winclone Pro" and "Camptune", 2 useful tools

Discussion in 'Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac' started by Riwam, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Riwam, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    Riwam macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    #1
    :)I found out 2 tools very useful for those, like me, who installed Windows in a part of their HD, (in my case in an aged MacBook 4.1 early 2008 with a new 256 GB SSD and 6 GB RAM).

    Since mac users count to use Windows just occasionally, if, like in my case, they have a not too large HD, they tend to allocate for Windows a rather small part of it.
    However often Windows applications take in time more space than initially thought.
    Disk Utility allows to modify the size of the OSX partition but AFAIK not the size of the Windows one.

    If you google, you will find somewhere a long procedure to create an image of the Windows system, erase that partition and create a larger one. It involves several downloaded tools, quite an effort and possibly some risk.
    Camptune is made by Paragon.
    Of course, I take no responsibility of other people's systems (!) but in my case it worked in a simple and effective way.
    :)
    The second tool I found useful is called Winclone Pro and made by a certain Twocanoes.com.
    It allows from the OSX side to make a clone of the Windows partition, for instance in an external drive. In some way it is like CarbonCopyCloner but for BootCamp partitions with Windows on them.
    It also allows to create Images but I have not tried that.

    The problem I had to solve happened in this way.
    With a live Ubuntu system called "Desinfec't" and issued yearly by the excellent (!) German computer magazin "c't" I scanned my Windows 10 for malware from outside Windows, the only effective way to do a deep and complete cleaning.
    I suppose that by doing so some Windows system files became damaged in order to get rid of the malware linked to them.
    I could not afterwards start any longer neither my Avira antivirus, nor Spybot, nor Windows update and my access to different files was blocked.
    Obviously my Windows was very seriously damaged.
    :eek:
    If one reads about repair possibilities in Windows there should be a "refresh" function which just repairs Windows... but I could not find such a thing.
    The next repair measure is called "reset" and unfortunately erases all the applications the user installed. :oops:
    I had used that "reset" with success in the past in relation to problems with Windows Spotlight mentioned in other threads in this part of the MacRumors Forum.
    However I assume that by now my Windows was so badly damaged that repeated "Resets" did not help, becoming stuck half way with neither a repair nor any longer a Windows system at all!
    I thought I would have to reinstall Windows 8.1, upgrade it again to Windows 10, see how to activate it again and so on. A true PITA!
    :eek:
    Luckily I had made with Winclone Pro a clone of the Windows partition after creating it and before installing the applications which (I believe) brought the malware into Windows.
    I therefore started my MacBook 4.1 from the OSX side, plugged the external drive with the Winclone of my Windows and restored it to the NTFS partition.
    I still was not entirely sure that Windows would work...but it did!
    :)
    Therefore I believe that people using in parallel OSX and Windows on the same HD should consider those 2 tools which, at least in my aged MacBook 4.1, worked flawlessly and avoided me a lot of worries, time and efforts.
    Ed
     
  2. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Boston
    #2
    I think using another OS to "disinfect" your windows partition is not the best and most effective way to clean it, hence your issue:
    There are some great antivirus products for windows, I use Avast which works really well. Plus if you practice safe computing habits, you minimize the risk even more.

    I highly recommend winclone, its a great tool for backing up your bookcamp partition.

    Does Camptune support MS' bitlocker technology? That is if I have my windows partition encrypted, will it be able to resize it?
     
  3. Riwam thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

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    Basel, Switzerland
    #3
     
  4. Gjwilly macrumors 68030

    Joined:
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    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #4
    I thought Camptune was made by Paragon.
    They're Tuxera's competitor.
     
  5. Riwam, Mar 20, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016

    Riwam thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    #5
    You are entirely wrong. The only effective way to reach a 99.999% clean Windows is by scanning it from outside bypassing the OS. (I say 99.999% because a 100% clean Windows is hard to guarantee because of RootKits and other modern, highly sophisticated hiding malware). The 4 scanning engines are well known in the Windows world: Avira, BitDefender, Kaspersky and ClamAV and they download from the web the freshest virus signatures issued the very day one uses "Desinfec't" before going over Windows one after the other.
    Other known Antivirus applications offer live systems as well, always knowing that modern viruses hide so well inside Windows that the best chances to find everything is to operate from outside the OS.
    By the way the same principle applies when trying to recover accidentally deleted data. One must scan the affected drive from outside it with either a live Linux or a specially prepared Windows. That provides the best chances to save and recover as much data as possible.

    The answer to your questions should be in Paragon's web site. Look there.
    I only used it in non encrypted partitions and do not know if it supports or not the Bitlocker technology.
    Ed
    --- Post Merged, Mar 20, 2016 ---
    I apologize for my mistake. You are absolutely right.
    I have corrected accordingly my first post.
    Thank you.
    Ed
     
  6. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Boston
    #6
    I actually have to disagree with you on that. I'm not sure the state of Linux antivirus software is at the same level of sophistication of Windows versions, plus as you yourself mentioned doing this messed up your windows partition.

    I'd like to read up on how using Linux to scan/clean a windows system is superior to using windows antivirus tools. If you can provide some source links to backup your assessment that I'm completely wrong, I'd appreciate it.
     
  7. Riwam, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016

    Riwam thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    #7
    Dear Mr. Flynn
    First of all it is not Linux antivirus but the 4 engines are provided by well known companies who of course deal with Windows viruses since both OSX and Linux have much less problems with malware than Windows.

    Second, I would gladly send you the pdf explainng how Desinfec't works if you can understand German, since it comes from the best reputed computer magazin in all Europe and probably one of the best in the world.
    Unfortunately it appears only in German but c't (published by the Heise Verlag) has such a good name among IT technicians of high rank that if you google, you will no doubt find info about it and about Desinfec't either in English or through Google Translate.
    Since my IT knowledge is not as high as yours, I must humbly confess that not all of the info in c't (which brings almost 500 pages every 2 weeks!!!) is accessible to me.
    However I do my best to learn and since I am 71 years old there is not so much time for me to learn new things...

    Third, antivirus live DVDs as provided by all major antivirus companies do not necessary need Linux as a basis for scanning a Windows PC from outside it. Some use a special Windows PE to support their scanning engines but Linux has the advantage that Microsoft's licenses and activations must not be taken in consideration.
    However, Linux is in such a case just the OS support for the scanning engines which are entirely intended, as already said, to find and make inocuous Windows malware and not Linux viruses.

    Last but not least, the problems my Windows had were caused but what you mentioned as well in your reply, namely not taking care of the sources from which I downloaded software. You are absolutely right that a careful choice of what one installs and from where one downloads it, avoids most of the problems with Windows malware.
    The problem is that nowadays even well known download sites like Cnet or Download.com either use by themselves trojans or, at the very best, don't take care to eliminate them from the trial software they offer.
    Whoever wants to avoid buying all of his or hers software, takes unfortunately the risk of getting malware which, if one isn't lucky, can make his Windows unusable after doing a deep clean of all the malware from outside the system, as was my case.
    I therefore acknowledge that I am to blame for my ruined Windows and you were right about the need to take care in what one installs in any Windows system.

    I hope to have made the events that happened to me now clearer.
    Thank you for your interest.
    Ed
     
  8. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #8
    Its not big deal, you're happy with the livecd method, and I'm content with the traditional approach.
     
  9. Riwam thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    #9
    I install of course, as you do, also an antivirus inside any Windows.
    The live on demand scanning disc is not meant at all to replace a permanent working inside antivirus.
    Only when one has troubles and the inside operating antivirus does not help, one can try on demand scan engines from outside the system.
    A permanent working and daily updated antivirus is an absolute necessity nowadays inside any computer running any Windows.
    That is basic common sense.
    Ed
     
  10. Mike Boreham macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #10
    Winclone is indeed a very useful tool which I have used successfully many times since its very early days. It doesn't work quite like Carbon Copy Cloner which creates a bootable copy. Winclone always makes an image, which it can then restore onto a different (larger or smaller) or the same partition.

    One limitation I have only recently understood is that it may not work if the hardware to which it is being restored is significantly different. I recently had to send my rMBP to Apple. Before sending it I cloned the Mac side with CCC and imaged the Bootcamp with Winclone, and wiped the drive. When it came back with a new motherboard, Winclone restored apparently successfully but Windows would not boot. I discussed with Two Canoes support and I should have run Sysprep on the final image run. This removes all the drivers so that it can be installed on new hardware and new drivers loaded.
     
  11. Riwam, Mar 24, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016

    Riwam thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Riwam

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Location:
    Basel, Switzerland
    #11
    ********
    Thank you very much for your very useful information.
    I would have thought that Winclone backups would restore to a repaired mac without problems.:rolleyes:

    By the way it must not necessary be used to create an image. I wincloned my Windows partition to an external USB drive and restored back afterwards to the original partition in my aged MacBook.

    In the web site of Twocanoes there are tutorials about different uses of Winclone worth reading.
    Sysprep is part of Windows. It "generalizes" the Windows, allowing it to be installed through Winclone in a different or somehow different hardware, as mentioned by Mike Boreham with his new motherboard.

    However :oops: it removes the activation of Windows, MS Office and other Microsoft Apps.
    Therefore after such a migration the activations must be done again, :( not a great pleasure :eek:.
    In my opinion therefore Sysprep and a Winclone migration of a Bootcamp Windows to another computer should only be used when there is no other choice.

    Thank you very much to Mike Boreham for his information. :)
    Ed
     
  12. Mike Boreham macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #12
    Ed, I am pretty sure you will find that what you put on your external USB drive was a Winclone image, and then you restored the image back to the original partition. The file extension for a Winclone image is ".winclone".

    In the main Winclone window, once you select the Bootcamp partition on the left, the only option is to "save image".

    I have never used sysprep so can't add anything to what you said about it. This is the link to the Winclone help page about it.

    I agree not something to do as a routine backup!
     

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