Windows 10 is outright spyware

[akimoriRyuuji]

Literally though, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not sure why everyone gets ruffled about their privacy ON THE INTERNET, which is basically a global share of big data. Don't like it? Disable settings. Most people don't know and don't care. Ignorance is bliss

 

[952863]

Literally though, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not sure why everyone gets ruffled about their privacy ON THE INTERNET, which is basically a global share of big data. Don't like it? Disable settings. Most people don't know and don't care. Ignorance is bliss

So, you're telling if you were changing into your new clothes, in the privacy of your home, you would be ok with me peeking through the window, and giggling?

And, this is majority of Windows 10 users, and Windows users in general:

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

So, you're telling if you were changing into your new clothes, in the privacy of your home, you would be ok with me peeking through the window, and giggling?

And, this is majority of Windows 10 users, and Windows users in general:

So I can just close the blinds?
My bad for Leaving the windows open so I can't complain.

Majority of 10 users are not tech gurus

 

[762999]

I personally think there are worst problems. Telemetry statistics are normally made anonymous. They don't do it to track you down, they want to know usage statistics.

If you use any online services (one drive, google drive, drop box), you normally agree in the EULA to let them peak in what you store there.

Everybody have a way bigger issue and it's called WEB BROWSING. Every time you visit a site, you normally let one or many big giant (Facebook, google, Microsoft) know a lot of non-anonymous data about yourself. Every site that let you use authentication from one of these companies will run script and they know which site you visit and what you do on those sites.

By default, Facebook create an account for everybody even if you don't sign up.. They do data mining on everyone's contacts and are able to send messages to non-members to let them know you should join Facebook because you're friends are on it.

Web companies knows a lot more about yourself then the anonymous telemetry stuff that Operating systems gather.

I could go on this subject all day.. but all have bigger problems.

Web plugin extensions that block scripts are your friend. 🙂

 

[435713]

I personally think there are worst problems. Telemetry statistics are normally made anonymous. They don't do it to track you down, they want to know usage statistics.

If you use any online services (one drive, google drive, drop box), you normally agree in the EULA to let them peak in what you store there.

Everybody have a way bigger issue and it's called WEB BROWSING. Every time you visit a site, you normally let one or many big giant (Facebook, google, Microsoft) know a lot of non-anonymous data about yourself. Every site that let you use authentication from one of these companies will run script and they know which site you visit and what you do on those sites.

By default, Facebook create an account for everybody even if you don't sign up.. They do data mining on everyone's contacts and are able to send messages to non-members to let them know you should join Facebook because you're friends are on it.

Web companies knows a lot more about yourself then the anonymous telemetry stuff that Operating systems gather.

I could go on this subject all day.. but all have bigger problems.

Web plugin extensions that block scripts are your friend. 🙂

I don't disagree with any of that, my issue always is that I personally want to PAY for what I use. Sucks these days there is no option. Thanks Beaver teeth Larry page.

Actually Page's teeth are WAY more concerning than win10. That much money and never fixed them.... illuminati confirmed.

 

[952863]

I don't disagree with any of that, my issue always is that I personally want to PAY for what I use. Sucks these days there is no option. Thanks Beaver teeth Larry page.

Actually Page's teeth are WAY more conceding than win10. That much money and never fixed them.... illuminati confirmed.

His teeth are so revolting. He has billions and won't get them fixed. Its mind boggling, like Windows.

 

[jase1125]

So, you're telling if you were changing into your new clothes, in the privacy of your home, you would be ok with me peeking through the window, and giggling?

And, this is majority of Windows 10 users, and Windows users in general:

So much FUD here it is comical.

 

[435713]

So much FUD here it is comical.

He didn't say the dude had a small pecker.

 

[AFEPPL]

if i recall correctly, the hackers did this on iPhones on 60mins the other week...
Do iPhones run iOS? Some one just turned the heat up in here? Feels like a huge fire is burning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-hacking-your-phone/

 

[throAU]

I don't in any way think any nefarious is going on with the data,.

You're a lot more trusting than I am.

If it was only one update that re-enables stuff (the november 2015 update), i'd be a little less skeptical, but combine that with the deliberately misleading installer screens, default settings to share everything, not presenting all the options during install, default behaviour to install whatever microsoft want (and no supported ability to turn it off), default key logger, and a myriad of other dubious marketing-biased, microsoft-friendly (not user friendly) defaults, and I think it's not unreasonable to assume that Microsoft's motives are less than noble, and it's by no means an accident. Because it's not just one accident.

A bunch of spyware related updates have been back ported to Windows 7 and 8.1 too, so it's not just an accident with a bad windows 10 patch. The company is attempting to own all their user's data. It's the new corporate policy.

If people still want to run Windows after all this, well - good luck to you. There are plenty of alternatives, and not just Apple.

 

[435713]

You're a lot more trusting than I am.

If it was only one update that re-enables stuff (the november 2015 update), i'd be a little less skeptical, but combine that with the deliberately misleading installer screens, default settings to share everything, not presenting all the options during install, default behaviour to install whatever microsoft want (and no supported ability to turn it off), default key logger, and a myriad of other dubious marketing-biased, microsoft-friendly (not user friendly) defaults, and I think it's not unreasonable to assume that Microsoft's motives are less than noble, and it's by no means an accident. Because it's not just one accident.

A bunch of spyware related updates have been back ported to Windows 7 and 8.1 too, so it's not just an accident with a bad windows 10 patch. The company is attempting to own all their user's data. It's the new corporate policy.

If people still want to run Windows after all this, well - good luck to you. There are plenty of alternatives, and not just Apple.

I don't trust any company for sure. I still don't think the data gathered is being used in an outright evil way. Their google style they have adopted can go (you know what) itself. Could MS be lying? Absolutely. I get what they are trying to do and I don't think it is right, I feel the user should have the ability to pay and not have any of that done.

The updates and some of the malware-like techniques to attempt to get others to upgrade is really horrible behavior and I don't think that is right at all. The Xbox One original DRM policies were insane and using Xbox from 2001 till 2013 I saw a dramatic shift in how that company does business. I didn't like it. Ads on the dashboard for a paid service and everyone accepted everything. DLC to where it is today. Season Pass, yup... That bleeds over here where solitaire was a monthly fee to play I believe. Ads from doritos, Mountain dew, energizer etc.. they are coming to win10. WAY to much money and a few hundred million that don't care and would watch a minute long ad whenever they turned their machine on or out of sleep. People enjoy and embrace mediocrity of course, that is a big problem.

People here can disable and are technically inclined enough to know how to stop most of it which is good they know how. If MS keeps this style I am staying firm I won't use them, as I don't use google either. Linux mint is my backup and it would do all I need and plenty of headroom if that day comes.

 

[throAU]

I don't trust any company for sure. I still don't think the data gathered is being used in an outright evil way. Their google style they have adopted can go (you know what) itself. Could MS be lying? Absolutely. I get what they are trying to do and I don't think it is right, I feel the user should have the ability to pay and not have any of that done.

The fact that they do not clearly present the UI to turn this off during install, and enable you to turn it ALL off during install quite simply leads me to believe that they're being underhanded and deliberately sneaky about it. Bordering on illegal behaviour.

The fact that they have switches in there (but fairly well obscured) is the only way they aren't being sued over this IMHO.

It's no accident that the options to not use an MS account, not customise defaults, etc. are hidden behind small text links that don't look like buttons (i.e., unless you mouse over, not even clear they're clickable), whilst the spyware defaults are available via a big clearly-clickable buttons.

They've deliberately made the UI for this unclear, and you really have to look carefully to not get the spyware stuff turned on.

I don't know how much clearer it can be, their behaviour is about as user hostile as it can be within the law.


edit:
And i'm not even talking about the Windows 7/8 to 10 upgrade thing with the updates that can't easily be turned off without hacks. Even if you accept the spyware crap windows 10 does today, the non-pro versions can't have updates disabled (i'm talking via supported UI switches, not hacking windows via registry or service manager), and even pro/enterprise can only have updates deferred for some time.

Essentially what Windows does today may change with an update that it will silently install whether you want it or not, that will be covered by the 45 page EULA that nobody read and would never agree to if they did read it properly.

 

[435713]

The fact that they do not clearly present the UI to turn this off during install, and enable you to turn it ALL off during install quite simply leads me to believe that they're being underhanded and deliberately sneaky about it. Bordering on illegal behaviour.

The fact that they have switches in there (but fairly well obscured) is the only way they are being sued over this IMHO.

It's no accident that the options to not use an MS account, not customise defaults, etc. are hidden behind small text links that don't look like buttons (i.e., unless you mouse over, not even clear they're clickable), whilst the spyware defaults are available via a big clearly-clickable button.

They've deliberately made the UI for this unclear, and you really have to look carefully to not get the spyware stuff turned on.

I don't know how much clearer it can be, their behaviour is about as user hostile as it can be within the law.

I agree with all of that. The buttons are very hidden. I think there should be more tact and not the whole (Well they don't know so it won't hurt them) mentality. It will get uglier that I am certain on. Is it abusing their monopoly, to me yes it is. Will they get anything for it? No sadly. The 90's "Investigation" was a show. More Government dishonesty, MS (like google) should be broken up into smaller companies if they want to do business that way. The law reads as such.

 

[throAU]

I agree with all of that. The buttons are very hidden. I think there should be more tact and not the whole (Well they don't know so it won't hurt them) mentality. It will get uglier that I am certain on. Is it abusing their monopoly, to me yes it is. Will they get anything for it? No sadly. The 90's "Investigation" was a pony show. More Government dishonesty, MS (like google) should be broken up.

I don't think MS are thinking "they don't know so it won't hurt them" at all.

It's a deliberate obfuscation in order to get as many people using oneDrive and MS sync as possible, so they can track as many people and push as much crap to them as possible. So they can provide as many back-doors into computers to the NSA as possible.

 

[435713]

I don't think MS are thinking "they don't know so it won't hurt them" at all.

It's a deliberate obfuscation in order to get as many people using oneDrive and MS sync as possible, so they can track as many people and push as much crap to them as possible. So they can provide as many back-doors into computers to the NSA as possible.

my wording wasn't accurate. they know full well what they are doing for sure. i meant the everyday user that nabs a 300-500 dollar laptop they view as a person who wouldn't think about it. it's a scary future.

Really stinks the "Pay for it" with money isn't good enough anymore.

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

This is just out right fear-mongering. You guys are so worried that someone in some government agency (of any country) is collecting your private photos and stalking you and that at any moment, the FBI will burst the door because you exceeded your cat photo quota for the day. Just give it a rest. You can't call Windows 10 outright spyware; its not spying on you, its just collecting some usage data that YOU AGREED TO LET IT TO. Even if "most" people don't know, that's because the vast majority of computer users are ignorant. Let them be ignorant, and fear no more. You are free to disable the internet, lock your computer in a box, blow it up and then spread the ashes throughout different parts of the world so that your computer and its internal data is entirely secure. But being on the internet has a price; you pay with your data.

 

[952863]

This is just out right fear-mongering. You guys are so worried that someone in some government agency (of any country) is collecting your private photos and stalking you and that at any moment, the FBI will burst the door because you exceeded your cat photo quota for the day. Just give it a rest. You can't call Windows 10 outright spyware; its not spying on you, its just collecting some usage data that YOU AGREED TO LET IT TO. Even if "most" people don't know, that's because the vast majority of computer users are ignorant. Let them be ignorant, and fear no more. You are free to disable the internet, lock your computer in a box, blow it up and then spread the ashes throughout different parts of the world so that your computer and its internal data is entirely secure. But being on the internet has a price; you pay with your data.

The ignorant ones are the ones that use Windows. lol

 

[AFEPPL]

Or those that perhaps make sweeping product statements based on personal experiences nearly 20 years ago..
W10 has moved on since W95, if only OS X had made the same strides. 😉

 

[435713]

This is just out right fear-mongering. You guys are so worried that someone in some government agency (of any country) is collecting your private photos and stalking you and that at any moment, the FBI will burst the door because you exceeded your cat photo quota for the day. Just give it a rest. You can't call Windows 10 outright spyware; its not spying on you, its just collecting some usage data that YOU AGREED TO LET IT TO. Even if "most" people don't know, that's because the vast majority of computer users are ignorant. Let them be ignorant, and fear no more. You are free to disable the internet, lock your computer in a box, blow it up and then spread the ashes throughout different parts of the world so that your computer and its internal data is entirely secure. But being on the internet has a price; you pay with your data.

Not what I am concerned about, I am discussing and taking some shots at MS. I realize MS and google are treated like royalty on this forum and it's funny. It should be = opportunity hating if one is going to do it. All three big tech giants do stuff that should be ridiculed.

Some of us would rather not have anything harvested period and preferred a period not too long ago when it was pay for the OS and that was pretty much it. (Yes this is the new age blah, blah, same age that has people watching others play games and is highlighted by twitter and instagram) Just a reflection of us getting dumber as a race. No moon tech has been discovered as they claim each year. Win7 certainly didn't gather as much as 10 does. Some yes, but it isn't close. I don't want my OS doing all of that in the background, period. MS really needs to know how many times I clicked in their photos app, or the hours that one played video games? These 'Promises' are broken quite often by them (I am discussing them and them only not apple here) The constant degradation of the XBOX brand, and their barely above average hits and misses with OS's. This data collection will not help the user very much, that is almost a certainty. People can talk up win8 all they want but that was trash that was only accepted since users have no choice. Macs are niche, and there is nothing else to challenge Windows. That is a problem.

I've made my conclusions on Windows 10. I don't like the way it is currently, maybe it will change. Most tech's I know agree it should have been changed heavily after XP and the registry needed to be phased out since they had a monopoly anyway and users would have taken it and accepted it and it would have been for the better. J Allard believed in cleaning it up, but Ballmer and him fought over things like that. Ballmer knows about bloat, look at his waistline.

Note: Tech's in general sound like verbal schizophrenia. No one agrees on anything overall and everyone rapes their opinion in your mouth like it is a fact.

MS can and will shove McD's ads, Energizer, Doritos, etc.. etc... they can get away with murder with their monopoly they still cling to. I hope it gets lowered by a solid linux distro whether it be Mint, or SteamOS or whatever comes out.

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

Not what I am concerned about, I am discussing and taking some shots at MS. I realize MS and google are treated like royalty on this forum and it's funny. It should be = opportunity hating if one is going to do it. All three big tech giants do stuff that should be ridiculed.

Some of us would rather not have anything harvested period and preferred a period not too long ago when it was pay for the OS and that was pretty much it. (Yes this is the new age blah, blah, same age that has people watching others play games and is highlighted by twitter and instagram) Just a reflection of us getting dumber as a race. No moon tech has been discovered as they claim each year. Win7 certainly didn't gather as much as 10 does. Some yes, but it isn't close. I don't want my OS doing all of that in the background, period. MS really needs to know how many times I clicked in their photos app, or the hours that one played video games? These 'Promises' are broken quite often by them (I am discussing them and them only not apple here) The constant degradation of the XBOX brand, and their barely above average hits and misses with OS's. This data collection will not help the user very much, that is almost a certainty. People can talk up win8 all they want but that was trash that was only accepted since users have no choice. Macs are niche, and there is nothing else to challenge Windows. That is a problem.

I've made my conclusions on Windows 10. I don't like the way it is currently, maybe it will change. Most tech's I know agree it should have been changed heavily after XP and the registry needed to be phased out since they had a monopoly anyway and users would have taken it and accepted it and it would have been for the better. J Allard believed in cleaning it up, but Ballmer and him fought over things like that. Ballmer knows about bloat, look at his waistline.

Note: Tech's in general sound like verbal schizophrenia. No one agrees on anything overall and everyone rapes their opinion in your mouth like it is a fact.

MS can and will shove McD's ads, Energizer, Doritos, etc.. etc... they can get away with murder with their monopoly they still cling to. I hope it gets lowered by a solid linux distro whether it be Mint, or SteamOS or whatever comes out.

If you took from that that I was trying to one-up Windows then you took away the wrong point. I am not a Windows user (anymore thankfully) and I do not like Windows. If I had to recommend an OS, my first choice would not be Windows. I am happy with my Macbook and OS X.

If you prefer not to have your data "harvested" (which by the way, is basically how platforms like Google and Microsoft stay alive) then I'm not sure what you should do. Use an open-source linux distro?

Here's the thing though. It's not a problem, and it's not a negative reflection on users to use platforms supported by ads/harvesting data/whatever you wanna call it. That's YOUR opinion.

It's a good platform. It's cheap to give away your data. Is that so great a cost? Would you really rather pay for using a service with money? I guess you don't want to use Google, Facebook or any other free online service. Why is it such a problem to have them serve you ads custom-tailored to your tastes? It's not like a single person is doing this; it's all computers tracking you, picking and choosing what to show you based on what you like and don't like. That creep you out?

I see it as a convenient platform. I get to use services I want, and the only thing I need to do is use the services. The rest happens in the background.

I mean, heck, perhaps you didn't realize that MacRumors is also ad-supported? And that means companies like Google are serving you ads based on your preferences. I see a Microsoft Office ad on the bottom. Suspiciously relevant, eh?

 

[throAU]

This is just out right fear-mongering. You guys are so worried that someone in some government agency (of any country) is collecting your private photos and stalking you and that at any moment, the FBI will burst the door because you exceeded your cat photo quota for the day. Just give it a rest. You can't call Windows 10 outright spyware; its not spying on you, its just collecting some usage data that YOU AGREED TO LET IT TO. Even if "most" people don't know, that's because the vast majority of computer users are ignorant. Let them be ignorant, and fear no more. You are free to disable the internet, lock your computer in a box, blow it up and then spread the ashes throughout different parts of the world so that your computer and its internal data is entirely secure. But being on the internet has a price; you pay with your data.

I'm not worried about it happening. It is happening.

i'm not worried about the FBI breaking my door down. I'm worried about the collected data being vulnerable to disclosure to others via hacking the government (or microsoft, apple, google). But it seems some people don't care about that, perhaps because they think the government is doing it, its all OK. Go read the news, note how many government facilities have been hacked. Look at how much inappropriate use of government data there has been (cops spying on their friend's partners, unauthorised viewing of private information in general).

Perhaps you place no value on your personal data, and metadata collected about you, but I do, and once that data is in the open, there's not much you can do to repair that situation. And Microsoft offer ZERO compensation in their EULA if this was to happen. The only way you can ensure this does not happen is to not give up your personal data.

And the "YOU AGREED TO LET IT TO" in caps doesn't alter the fact that most people do not read EULAs, especially those 45 pages long, and most people do not go looking for privacy options that have been deliberately obfuscated to turn them off.


With iCloud for example the options are clearly spelled out and it is much easier to turn off. There is data i do store in iCloud, and there is data that I do not store in iCloud. It is easy for me to make that choice.

Microsoft deliberately obfuscate both what is stored, how it is stored and how it works.

Just for one random example, i have called MS support to ask how an MS account ties into an active directory account when the two are linked (being an enterprise admin, i need to know where our IP is being stored). This should be documented, and should be easily answered by the helpdesk. I was unsuccessful in getting an answer out of them.

 

[435713]

If you took from that that I was trying to one-up Windows then you took away the wrong point. I am not a Windows user (anymore thankfully) and I do not like Windows. If I had to recommend an OS, my first choice would not be Windows. I am happy with my Macbook and OS X.

If you prefer not to have your data "harvested" (which by the way, is basically how platforms like Google and Microsoft stay alive) then I'm not sure what you should do. Use an open-source linux distro?

Here's the thing though. It's not a problem, and it's not a negative reflection on users to use platforms supported by ads/harvesting data/whatever you wanna call it. That's YOUR opinion.

It's a good platform. It's cheap to give away your data. Is that so great a cost? Would you really rather pay for using a service with money? I guess you don't want to use Google, Facebook or any other free online service. Why is it such a problem to have them serve you ads custom-tailored to your tastes? It's not like a single person is doing this; it's all computers tracking you, picking and choosing what to show you based on what you like and don't like. That creep you out?

I see it as a convenient platform. I get to use services I want, and the only thing I need to do is use the services. The rest happens in the background.

The main thing is a person being overall happy with their platform/car/relationship etc.. That goes without saying, I always tell people "Buy whatever you like" I can't speak for their computing or whatever needs, they need a glove that fits them.

MS recently moved more towards the google model. I have said before that I get why since I doubt selling an OS every 3 years or so at $199 won't work anyone in this climate. To me if a user buys a surface/book line then there should be very minimal tracking since they are paying the premium for that line. Windows pro verses home differences perhaps. Clearly it is MY opinion, not sure why you're capitalizing there, I am sharing my viewpoints, you may find them moronic or whatever.

I don't like the data harvesting, I will never like it, I find OSX and iOS to be minimal and I have read much about their collection. If it goes over the line then I will use it more sparsely and use Linux Mint for most of my needs. I do not like the google model, I get it, doesn't mean 100% of the world is going to like it. It doesn't creep me out, I am aware of site tracking as you and the other poster brought up, I have most of that curtailed the best i can.

Again, I prefer paying and not seeing them but that is changing on mainstream OS's I expect Apple to adopt more of it in a few years time. Maybe I will deal with it, maybe I will not, I don't know. Maybe I will use Linux, maybe I will switch back to Windows if the MBP has like one port or something LOL Thoughts change, but at this moment I don't like the data collection that MS and google does for my needs.

I think that is pretty civil above and we are not going to agree on this topic. I will speak against it though because I firmly believe there should be a pay option that eliminates all that stuff.

Either way they should be an OS that is not server I mean cloud... based for many years to come and unless someone blows me away with what they can do with a server... duh I mean cloud OS then I don't care for it.

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

The main thing is a person being overall happy with their platform/car/relationship etc.. That goes without saying, I always tell people "Buy whatever you like" I can't speak for their computing or whatever needs, they need a glove that fits them.

MS recently moved more towards the google model. I have said before that I get why since I doubt selling an OS every 3 years or so at $199 won't work anyone in this climate. To me if a user buys a surface/book line then there should be very minimal tracking since they are paying the premium for that line. Windows pro verses home differences perhaps. Clearly it is MY opinion, not sure why you're capitalizing there, I am sharing my viewpoints, you may find them moronic or whatever.

I don't like the data harvesting, I will never like it, I find OSX and iOS to be minimal and I have read much about their collection. If it goes over the line then I will use it more sparsely and use Linux Mint for most of my needs. I do not like the google model, I get it, doesn't mean 100% of the world is going to like it. It doesn't creep me out, I am aware of site tracking as you and the other poster brought up, I have most of that curtailed the best i can.

Again, I prefer paying and not seeing them but that is changing on mainstream OS's I expect Apple to adopt more of it in a few years time. Maybe I will deal with it, maybe I will not, I don't know. Maybe I will use Linux, maybe I will switch back to Windows if the MBP has like one port or something LOL Thoughts change, but at this moment I don't like the data collection that MS and google does for my needs.

I think that is pretty civil above and we are not going to agree on this topic. I will speak against it though because I firmly believe there should be a pay option that eliminates all that stuff.

Either way they should be an OS that is not server I mean cloud... based for many years to come and unless someone blows me away with what they can do with a server... duh I mean cloud OS then I don't care for it.

With regards to paying to "eliminate all that stuff", some companies do allow you to pay to hide ads. Which essentially, effectively achieves that end. For example, paying to opt out of ads on youtube.

 

[435713]

With regards to paying to "eliminate all that stuff", some companies do allow you to pay to hide ads. Which essentially, effectively achieves that end. For example, paying to opt out of ads on youtube.

Yes if that got adopted more on every level I like that model far more. Problem is the era we are in expects most everything for free with software or server based software like adobe server... I mean adobe cloud. I like trolling the word cloud, sorry. haha

The ball is already in motion though. I was taught the OS should stay in the background and out of the way as much as much as possible. Things go in circles in this world though, perhaps eventually the free with ads thing bottoms out and the paid thing comes back and people get used to that again. Just would like the option. I knew when win10 was free there would be some shady stuff going on. I think there will be more.

 

[maxsix]

Since the dawn of time mans curiosity sought out the business of others. In the 50's and 60's it was big government, the insurance industry and others that built comprehensive files. Fast forward to the 80's and 90's when big data already had more info on the citizens than tech firms like Apple Google Microsoft et.al. Now it's circa 2016 and the paranoids have a sensational media gang to make even more dire predictions.

Individuals that are proactive, self educated and choose to take personal responsibility have all the proper safe computing controls in place. All done while the paranoid were too busy worryingly sharing horror stories, living in the grip of fear...they've fallen behind unprotected.