Windows 8 news

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by mike31mets, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. mike31mets macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    #1
    I know it's a Mac forum, but this isn't meant as a PC vs Mac debate. Obviously Windows 8 is still in development, but Microsoft has a blog where they are tracking the status and development of features in their next OS. Obviously it's hard to say how it will all feel in the end, but it's interesting nonetheless to hear the thought process being put into these features.

    There was a recent blog post on Windows Explorer: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/29/improvements-in-windows-explorer.aspx

    I know not everyone is a fan of the Ribbon interface. But of those who use it, I think it definitely makes certain tasks easier and makes a user more aware of features that they previously didn't know existed. So it's interesting they are finally integrating it into Windows Explorer. It makes sense considering they've been doing that to other applications over the last few years with some programs. But the bigger benefit I think here will be how it gets used it a touch-enabled device.

    Obviously Windows 7 as it stands has touch features but isn't really optimized for touch. Windows 8 looks to fix that with a new GUI specifically for touch, but it's also going to allow the user to go back into normal desktop view most are familiar with. So when going back into that desktop view, it will certainly be easier dealing with the Ribbon rather than drop down menus.

    The blog post is pretty long and does a good job explaining what their doing and why. I won't go more into it, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this change. I know Apple during the development of OS X Lion was pretty hush about showing changes and features. However a few did get leaked out and caused some chatter as expected. In some cases, Apple simply went back to the way it was (the one feature that comes to mind is buttons and how it was greyed out to indicate selections and how it would behave when sliding, I forget exactly what happened but I know they reverted back over three developer previews if I'm not mistaken). In other cases they made GUI changes (with the option to change it back as well) such as the fading scroll bar, reversing how one scrolls on a mouse, etc. At a high level, I can understand why they've gone this route since they are trying to create familiar experience across different devices (OS X and iOS). And it looks like Microsoft is doing the same.

    I don't think it's a bad decision on either company's part either. It's just the natural progression of things, but how they go about it will certainly be important. At the end of the day, a desktop is a desktop and a tablet is a tablet. There are only so many changes you can make to the GUI to make it a one size fits all or to maintain familiarity that doesn't end up annoying end users.

    What do you think based on the changes described in the blog post? Will this alienate you as a Windows user or are you pretty open to try out these new changes?
     
  2. boss.king macrumors 68040

    boss.king

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    #2
    Oh god Microsoft what are you doing?! The ribbon layout is the worst thing about office, it takes 10 minutes to find anything you need. I really hope there's a way to get back to the Win7 explorer look. I use keyboard shortcuts almost exclusively, I have no need for the ribbon handicap.
     
  3. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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  4. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #4
    Either you love the ribbon or hate the ribbon. I am in the latter group, I hate the ribbon. Its an awful addition to the file explorer
     
  5. *LTD*, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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  6. MonkeySee...., Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    MonkeySee.... macrumors 68040

    MonkeySee....

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  7. *LTD*, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #7
    Apparently, this is supposed to be a "tease." LOL

    http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-teases-its-metro-style-windows-8-start-menu/

    [​IMG]


    EDIT:

    It gets worse.

    http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-talks-about-having-two-user-interfaces-for-windows-8

    Microsoft continues to update its official Windows 8 developer blog with new entries about its upcoming next version of its Windows operating system. Today's newest blog entry takes a closer look at Windows 8's user interface, or rather its two user interfaces. The most talked about part of the new UI is called "Metro" which is the highly graphical design that is pictured above and is made to be used primarily for touch screens devices. Microsoft also has the more traditional PC-based user interface that will be more familiar to previous Windows users when they check out their files and folders.

    But why have both kinds for this one operating system? According to Microsoft's Steven Sinofsky, "Having both of user interfaces together harmoniously is an important part of Windows 8." One of the reasons for having two kinds of UI is the success of Windows 7. Sinofsky says, "Hundreds of millions of people rely on the Windows 7 UI and existing Windows apps and devices every day, and would value (and expect) us to bring forward aspects of that experience to their next PCs."


    [​IMG]
     
  8. TheSideshow, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    TheSideshow macrumors 6502

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    #8
    W8 looks great!

    The ribbon is not my choice, but I can minimize it by double clicking a tab or clicking the up arrow o the right. While visually (I assume it will get refined) it doesnt look great, the function is there for people who want it and it can be hidden if you dont. Its a good choice IMO.

    I loved Synofskys post on the Metro UI choice and how you will be choosing whether to use the Metro UI alone or both seamlessly.

    "We knew as we designed the Windows 8 UI that you can’t just flip a bit overnight and turn all of that history into something new. In fact, that is exactly what some people are afraid of us doing. Some have said that is the only path to take. Yet, even those who have fully embraced tablets also own a laptop for those times when they need more precise control or need to use one of the apps that are mission critical (and are still being developed). In people’s desire not to carry around two different devices
    ...
    We believe there is room for a more elegant, perhaps a more nuanced, approach. You get a beautiful, fast and fluid, Metro style interface and a huge variety of new apps to use. These applications have new attributes (a platform) that go well beyond the graphical styling (much to come on this at Build). As we showed, you get an amazing touch experience, and also one that works with mouse, trackpad, and keyboard. And if you want to stay permanently immersed in that Metro world, you will never see the desktop—we won’t even load it (literally the code will not be loaded) unless you explicitly choose to go there! This is Windows reimagined.

    But if you do see value in the desktop experience—in precise control, in powerful windowing and file management, in compatibility with hundreds of thousands of existing programs and devices, in support of your business software, those capabilities are right at your fingertips as well. You don’t need to change to a different device if you want to edit photos or movies professionally, create documents for your job or school, manage a large corpus of media or data, or get done the infinite number of things people do with a PC today. And if you don’t want to do any of those “PC” things, then you don’t have to and you’re not paying for them in memory, battery life, or hardware requirements. If you do want or need this functionality, then you can switch to it with ease and fluidity because Windows is right there. Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app."


    Sounds like Microsoft is taking the time to build something great that fits everybody's need in one device. So really instead of nit picking something that adds functionality while at the same time can be hidden, try to remember that you are not the only user of Microsoft software (or hater for *LTD*). Many people will discover lots of new commands to make their computing life easier; I mean I see people who dont even know ctrl+a and now they just get a clear button for it.

    Finally, there is still a lot left to be revealed and finished with W8. They are also still changing a lot of UI elements between builds and reveals.

    TLDR: Ribbon can be hidden, but great for many other users, so why complain unless you are too dumb to minimize the ribbon? Everything (including more and all older shortcuts are there). 2 UI's is great; better than two devices like another company!


    Ribbon vs Ribbon Hidden. Not a big deal
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #9
    The whole Ribbon or not, should be optional. I don't want the new Ribbon, but I know some people find it good. I want my classic Windows layout wrapped in Aero candy-eye please.
     
  10. SandboxGeneral Moderator

    SandboxGeneral

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    #10
    I've been using Office 2007 (On my Win machine of course) since it came out, and I still cannot get used to it. I still prefer the Office '97-2003 menu style; then I could find everything I needed.

    This ribbon thing just looks bad.
     
  11. TheSideshow macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Thats why it can be hidden.
     
  12. MBP13 macrumors 6502

    MBP13

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    #12
    I agree! The computer/tech lady at my old elementary school has said that it's so had for her young students to learn the new versions of Word with their changed toolbar after having used Word 2003.

    My thoughts on Windows 8: "You can put as much lipstick as you want on a pig, but it's not going to make her a lady. "
     
  13. *LTD*, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #13
    Complexity upon complexity. It's not enough they can't manage to get the design right of only one UI. Now it would appear they'll try to juggle two of them. On the same OS. :rolleyes:

    These clowns will never learn. They won't start completely from scratch and take the tech world by storm. Nope. That's for others to do. Others who are dynamic, progressive, and not afraid to take risks. MS is AFRAID to move us forward. You saw it right there in Sinofsky's statement. They're afraid of alienating one group of users, so they try to serve something up for everyone - disjointedly - and will probably end up with a huge cluster****.

    MS has no balls.
     
  14. TheSideshow macrumors 6502

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    Apr 21, 2011
    #14
    Of course they wont start new. That's idiotic and I don't know why you think its a good idea.

    Windows 8 is essentially allowing them to progress forward without alienating current users who rely on Windows.

    ARM+Touch+No compromises Windows if you want it. Seems like an awesome idea to me.

    "Windows" wont get in the way of the tablet anyways. I know you've seen the demos. As much as you hope that your words will effect Microsoft's outcome they wont. You are preaching your trash to the wrong people anyways.

    Heres an idea. Lay out you plan if you were CEO of Microsoft.
     
  15. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #15
    You are agruing with LTD. The man who thinks everything sucks unless it has an Apple label on it. If it has an Apple Label on it then therefor it is great even if it was dog crap in a white little box.

    I honestly think over all that the ribbon was a great idea from MS. It had a learning curve and once you got over it and learned it you quickly saw it was better than the menu system. The menus were way over complicated and just had so much stuff buried in them. If you take a new user they will like the ribbon in the end better. Old system users once they get over it quickly can learn the ribbon is really good after a short learning curve.

    I know I struggled with it at first but quickly grew to like it.

    People who bash it for the most part I have noticed never took the time to learn how to use it. Using an LTD agrument if people never wanted change we would still be using the command prompt for everything.
     
  16. *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #16
    Looking at Apple's competition, it doesn't take a whole lot of convincing to get this impression. Especially in the tablet area.
     
  17. elppa, Aug 31, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011

    elppa macrumors 68040

    elppa

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    #17
    This is my favourite bit... the “Legacy toolbars” button.
    [​IMG]

    I love to hear about how their "Telemetry" helped them to reach the decision to put that gem in!? Granted it is a beta, hopefully this particular button goes the way of the dodo for the final release.

    This is written from the assumption that the ribbon is just a modern replacement for the old fashioned menu bar. Which in some ways it is and that is just fine.

    I think the problem Microsoft is now using the ribbon as the replacement for EVERYTHING. Drop down menus, palettes. Dare I say it... even "Legacy toolbars". I am not sure this is the right approach in all cases. Like when I use an application like Cornerstone (which I think has a fantastic UX for various reasons I won't go into here) I don't think - gosh I really need a ribbon.

    While arguably less "discoverable" I still believe the relative elegance and simplicity of the Windows 7 explorer has many advantages over the new Windows 8 model.

    [​IMG]

    Microsoft had something in Office Mac 2001 called the formatting palette. It worked great on a wide screen, because your document could sit on the left and the palette to the right. The palette was divided into a number of sections (like the ribbon), but unlike the ribbon you could show and hide as many or as few as you wanted at any one time. I fail to see how the ribbon improves on this, but maybe someone can explain.

    [​IMG]

    (Obviously that screenshot shows the Platinum appearance and Microsoft Aqua-fied it later, but the idea was the same)
     

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  18. AppleScruff1 macrumors G3

    AppleScruff1

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    #18
    They have 90% of the worlds users, they better not alienate them. Perhaps when they get under 10% like Apple they will take more chances?
     
  19. ct2k7 macrumors 603

    ct2k7

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    #19
    I actually quite like this. The less clicking for me, the better.
     
  20. noatonement macrumors member

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    Jul 27, 2011
    #20
    I kind of like it and i'm eager to see how it all plays out.

    Only thing that disappoints me about windows as a whole is the whole $100+ price tag -.- but thats probably just because i'm so use to the $30 price tag for Mac OSX and i'm a poor college student....
     
  21. DockMac macrumors regular

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    #21
  22. rorschach macrumors 68020

    rorschach

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    #22
    There are so many functions crammed into the ribbon; it would be that much better if it had a search function like the Mac OS X menubar does (in the help menu).
     
  23. Usual macrumors member

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    Aug 10, 2011
    #23
    With Office 2007, Microsoft was criticized most about the Ribbon.

    Now, I do not know why, they are also having it in Windows 8. unbelievable...

    One more reason to jump Apple solutions :)
     
  24. digger1985 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 8, 2011
    #24
    I applaud MS for having blogs on so many different topics. They have one for W8, WP7, Photosynth, Office for Mac and so on and on.

    Apple on the other hand has nothing. Nope, not even a squeak.

    As a MS fan, I hate the disrespect shown towards MS even when they are trying their best to be open. Sometimes I wish MS should just shut down their blogs as 90% of the comments on their blog is nothing but abuse. They would save tons of money as well.

    ----------

    You are pretty much inviting a flame war here to be honest. It's hard to find people willing to talk reasonably about MS here.
     
  25. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #25
    Same here, I like reading about the changes even if I'm not really for it. I'm excited to what win8 may be about. Reading the blogs starts the juices flowing.

    I'm hoping they'll have another public beta and I expect they'll have one.
     

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