Does anyone find it funny how LTD is the biggest Apple fan poster and yet he still cant even get people to agree with his pro-Apple/Anti-MS nonsense on an Apple centric board?
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roadbloc
macrumors G3
What exactly is wrong with a user controlled file system anyway? Yeah, sure, we'll get the occasional moron who will delete kernal32.dll thinking it's a virus, although that is mostly prevented by making it awkward to get to the contents of the Windows folder. Other than that, what is the issue? It works perfectly fine. The way Apple has been hiding everything in these 'library files' bugs me.
Having to open an app before choosing the file seems like a step backwards to me. I don't just have one filetype in one folder, I have a wide range, and I imagine most users will be the same. Having to first open your app before choosing a file is just plain awkward in my mind. It would be like using Windows 3.1 again, as it was even more awkward to use the actual File Manager app in Windows 3.1.
In fact, iOS reminds me a lot of Windows 3.1.
He'll just claim that this forum is full of Apple haters. Whereas it has it's fair share, it is no way near as bad as he makes it out to be.
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Plus, it locks you into that application (which is probably the motivation behind doing it).
Imagine if Microsoft Office hid your file system from you and all of your important documents were stored somewhere on your hard drive in some mystery location. Now Open Office comes along, it's better and free, but you can't open your Office files. Sure, Open Office is capable of reading MS Office documents, but good luck getting to them. MS Office hid them somewhere.
I can't believe anyone could support such a thing. It's a dynamic marketplace, better products are always coming out, and being able to switch with relative ease is something I like.
benthewraith
macrumors 68040
Windows 7 is being adopted quite fast. Perhaps the fastest in OS history.
Let's take iOS elements that in some ways are already present in the OS, relabel it, and call it LaunchPad. Then let's redo Spaces and integrate mission control, making a mess of everything and screwing up a perfectly good grid system.
God damn it must be magical luck that their latest OS, Windows 7, is the fastest growing operating system if they're not doing any innovation at all. And their "open status" is the reason why Android surpassed iOS and Windows passed Mac OS. Oh, and let's see, they developed a market-leading game console better than the Wii, before the Wii even came out.
Compared to the travesty of Sculley, Ballmer doesn't come close. Microsoft is still an industry leader in operating systems.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
The problem Microsoft has is that they only have to major "cash cows" Office and windows. They continually fail to bring anything else to market that produces a healthy profit. Xbox is probably the only other product line but even that is not so great. I think they sell the xbox at a loss and make profits on the games.
They desperately need their mobile platform to take off
I think Apple has made great strides. Especially with Spotlight, iLife apps and the Media Browser concept.
I've been a fan of Spotlight, I know power users have issues with it. But for me, Spotlight and Smart Folders mean that I simply don't care where I save a file. Everything is in my Documents folder. PDFs, Word docs, Excel files, etc. Across multiple projects and different time frames.
Only stuff that I put into manual folder structures is code for web sites because I'm using a text based HTML and CSS editor.
iTunes handles ID3 tags pretty well and offers 99% of users every feature they need in organizing, consuming, syncing and sharing MP3 and M4V files.
As I mentioned, iPhoto is the Finder for photos. Only time I export a photo to my file system is to upload to Craigslist. Everything else I need to do with a photo is done in iPhoto.
Video is hard because it is large, difficult to tag and index. But iMovie and now FCP X are getting there with range-based keywording, people dectection and scene dectection.
Email and Calendar are a given. When is the last time you went to the file system to find that email that Bob sent you? Ever?
Do you use an email client? how often do you go to the file system to find an email?
Do you use iTunes or similar media catalog?
It's all data. Forget about "files". Data should be stored in open, transferrable formats in open databases. Applications should have access to that data.
You open an app to get something done.
Seems like you want to have a shoebox with all your stuff. So you want to first open the shoebox, rummage thru all your reciepts, tax documents, old cassette tapes, college papers, etc. in order to find a photo you want to show to a relative. I'd rather open the photo album that holds my photos and skip all the other stuff that is noise.
ct2k7
macrumors G3
Do you open Pages to open a document?
It depends on the situation.
Personally, I prefer the file system and document approach. That's what sets OS X apart from Windows, it is application based.
jaw04005
macrumors 601
Windows 8 is going to be interesting. UI-wise, it's like they went from one extreme to the other. Are they going to prompt the user to select their preferred UI after install? Really?
Just having two separate UIs for one product tells me Microsoft doesn't know what it's doing.
Maybe they should split Windows back up again and have a consumer OS and enterprise OS instead of trying to be everything to every body.
I still don't understand why they didn't just make a Windows Phone-based tablet OS instead.
Just having two separate UIs for one product tells me Microsoft doesn't know what it's doing.
Maybe they should split Windows back up again and have a consumer OS and enterprise OS instead of trying to be everything to every body.
I still don't understand why they didn't just make a Windows Phone-based tablet OS instead.
*LTD*
macrumors G4
Fire Ballmer and tell Sinofsky to grow a pair. Sinofsky has talent, but unfortunately he's chained and hamstrung by MS' inefficient, maddening, and stifling bureaucracy.
roadbloc
macrumors G3
*LTD*
macrumors G4
I know what Apple's managed to do and MS hasn't. I know what Google's managed to do (in very little time) and MS hasn't. We all do. This is public knowledge.
Something is very, very wrong at MS.
When you have that kind of R&D money (far more than Apple) and that lousy of a ROI, something's not working right. And it starts with the CEO. And we all know that Ballmer makes it ridiculously easy to point fingers at him.
You don't need to understand the inner-workings of MS to see how their results stack up. Just like you don't need to go to Langley Park, Maryland or Flint, Michigan to know that it's not a place you'd likely want to go. Just like you don't need to get a Vizio tablet to figure out your money is probably better spent elsewhere.
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roadbloc
macrumors G3
How so? Last time I checked they were making an astounding profit. Not as much as Apple is currently as we all know, but Microsoft have been making an astounding profit for well over a decade now, unlike Apple who have risen, fallen and risen.
The way I see it, Microsoft is still a very healthy company.
Rodimus Prime
macrumors G4
Good question. By ltd logic and metrics he uses for Apple worship ms is doing great. Let's see osx sucks because it has so little market share and windows 7 rules, and he'll vista is better than osx by the same metrics. Office is a heck of a lot better and pages sucks by the same logic.
*LTD*
macrumors G4
Except that isn't what I say at all.
If you're going to use my words against me (wrongly), at least read my posts (in the very thread in which you're posting) before you do.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/13281387/
Last paragraph.
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AppleScruff1
macrumors G4
How's Apple doing on the new Final Cut Pro X? I guess it was so innovative and magical that they had to put the old version back on sale again since the new one has been so poorly received. Oh, wait, let me guess your response...It's a limited market product so it doesn't really matter. Or, gee, Apple is so in tune with the market that they brought back the old version, or the pro users don't know what they are doing and Apple knows best....or..................😀:😀
*LTD*
macrumors G4
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Rodimus Prime
macrumors G4
I am not the one who changes the rules when your arguments fall apart. You are the one who go "LOOK AT PROFIT"/ Look at the numbers/ look at the market share in post after post.
Lets see in your arguments there, In numbers OSX sucks, in market share OSX sucks compared to Vista, XP and windows 7.
I know members are free to post, but I ask please if you can simply stick to the topic at hand. This thread isn't about market numbers or anything financial. The focus here is on Windows 8 and its development which can be compared to the OS X Lion which was released not long ago.
Anyways getting back on topic:
It's interesting to read some of the comments on the Office for Mac palette that was used in previous version. I have to say at someone who was never familiar with Office for Mac, I found it rather confusing and never got accustomed to it. But that's probably because I never used it as much as I did the Windows version of Office. I could see how it was like the Ribbon, but with more flexibility. But it still felt awkward to me, buttons sometimes too small, palettes often felt like clicking on file menus and just a strange experience overall.
With Explorer, there will be some major screen space savings when hiding the Ribbon. And in reality, the Ribbon is for those who don't use keyboard shortcuts. Anyone who has been using Windows for a while now should be familiar with basic keyboard shortcuts. Imagine having the Ribbon hidden, there's a lot more visible and yet you still keep the File path and some of those basic features like Back, Forward, Refresh, and Up.
Talk to me about confusing and I can point you to OS X Lion Finder. I'm still getting used to it but I can't stand the way items appear on the left side. It just feels all very cluttered. But to be honest, I haven't been using Lion too long so I'm sure I'll get used to it over time.
But moving on to other features:
There's apparently another feature MS is adding: the ability to mount ISOs. Pretty cool and seemed like a no-brainer as soon as they allowed users to burn ISOs in Win7. OS X already has this built in so it'll be nice to finally have it available in Windows.
Also they are also improving the Copy, Merge dialog boxes (read more here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ement-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete.aspx ). OS X up until recently didn't even have a Merge option. MS has had this feature for a while now but I have to admit in Windows 7 it has often gotten confusing to pick which file to pick. Based on the screenshots, I love the level of information you get:
I think it becomes a lot easier to pick which files you want when you get it visually lined up in columns like this. Although it might also get confusing if you have folders with same name.
And I like how they're improving the Copy dialog box as well. OS X keeps it very simple (which isn't bad or good) but outside of the progress bar and the number of files, it's hard to say what's really going on. But I do like how file transferred are stacked up on top of each other when multiple transfers are going on at the same time. MS is doing something similar here:
Basic view:
Detailed view:
Anyways getting back on topic:
It's interesting to read some of the comments on the Office for Mac palette that was used in previous version. I have to say at someone who was never familiar with Office for Mac, I found it rather confusing and never got accustomed to it. But that's probably because I never used it as much as I did the Windows version of Office. I could see how it was like the Ribbon, but with more flexibility. But it still felt awkward to me, buttons sometimes too small, palettes often felt like clicking on file menus and just a strange experience overall.
With Explorer, there will be some major screen space savings when hiding the Ribbon. And in reality, the Ribbon is for those who don't use keyboard shortcuts. Anyone who has been using Windows for a while now should be familiar with basic keyboard shortcuts. Imagine having the Ribbon hidden, there's a lot more visible and yet you still keep the File path and some of those basic features like Back, Forward, Refresh, and Up.
Talk to me about confusing and I can point you to OS X Lion Finder. I'm still getting used to it but I can't stand the way items appear on the left side. It just feels all very cluttered. But to be honest, I haven't been using Lion too long so I'm sure I'll get used to it over time.
But moving on to other features:
There's apparently another feature MS is adding: the ability to mount ISOs. Pretty cool and seemed like a no-brainer as soon as they allowed users to burn ISOs in Win7. OS X already has this built in so it'll be nice to finally have it available in Windows.
Also they are also improving the Copy, Merge dialog boxes (read more here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ement-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete.aspx ). OS X up until recently didn't even have a Merge option. MS has had this feature for a while now but I have to admit in Windows 7 it has often gotten confusing to pick which file to pick. Based on the screenshots, I love the level of information you get:
I think it becomes a lot easier to pick which files you want when you get it visually lined up in columns like this. Although it might also get confusing if you have folders with same name.
And I like how they're improving the Copy dialog box as well. OS X keeps it very simple (which isn't bad or good) but outside of the progress bar and the number of files, it's hard to say what's really going on. But I do like how file transferred are stacked up on top of each other when multiple transfers are going on at the same time. MS is doing something similar here:
Basic view:
Detailed view:
The combined copy dialogues are very welcomed which is something I wished Windows 7 had sometimes. The detailed view is very cool, but not really that important. Pausing transfers is finally one of the nice features they are adding. The way to select which files to keep can also be great for some, but Ive never had a need to see that level of detail since usually one folder is meant to replace an old folder and all the files from one directory have the same intention. But reading their blog I think they made the best decision on how to handle it. Its still better or the same in all regards which is how I actually feel about everything W8 so far.
boss.king
Suspended
That all looks really nice, I'm actually really excited to see how Windows 8 turns out, MS seems to be really pulling it all together in terms of design, functionality, and user friendliness. With the exception of the ribbon (which I hear can be turned off, thank god) I think Windows 8 will be a magnificent successor to the already brilliant Windows 7.
My one wish is that they improve Windows support for multi-display setups, I don't really like having to run a 3rd party application to get my external monitor working as it should.
What is Windows lacking in terms of multi display setups? I have a dual monitor setup at work (with XP) and everything works great. I'm wondering what I'm possibly missing out on.