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Windows Goes Multi-Touch
- Thread starter Mykbibby
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Syrus28
macrumors 6502a
Actually, just one post above yours
Syrus28 said:
And at the top of the page
Syrus28 said:
As I said before, I don't think Microsoft was showing off the entire package, just the software side of it. The hardware could [and should] come later.
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
Are you seeing that in the demo, or somewhere else? The video seems to show custom views and applications accepting the touch input.
The scroll wheel gets tapped into the scroll bar control of most windows, right? Unless the scroll wheel event is handled uniquely by the application, the system treats it as a press on the scroll bar button. Have they talked about how they're going to integrate touch with the existing event loop?
Yeah, I saw those posts, but those are addressing what we already knew about touch. I agree it won't replace the keyboard and mouse, but I'm more concerned about the ergonomics of it given the way most people currently have their systems arranged.
What I was looking for though was your opinion of what Microsoft has just brought to the discussion.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Microsoft says that it's not a coincidence, so you are right.
They didn't "fix" Wingdings, because reassigning the codes for a font would not be compatible - existing documents would be changed.
For Webdings, they made sure that NYC wasn't the same, and someone with a sense of humor had the codes come out as "I love NY".
Windows 7 could work on any hardware shape, they just demoed it on a less-than-perfect form factor.
I am a fan of the iPhone and all the fun technology that is in it. The Windows multi touch looks cool, if you say it doesn't you're a liar or a fan-boy. Apple was not the first to see/think that touch and multi-touch was a potential innovation. We've all seen the Microsoft Surface, all of this technology is in development. With Apple you don't get to see anything until it is done, most other manufacturers show us the works-in-progress.
I love my Mac. BUT, I hate it when I see people writing off other groups using similar innovations AND not even recognizing maybe some other kick-ass things happening in the industry. MS and Apple are not the only two companies in the world.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=he-j1BbZf58 --- watch and just try and tell me that anything MS or Apple has done is half as amazing.
OH and if you're up for some back story, check this page/videos (one year prior to iPhone announcement) --- http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/
k thx bai
I love my Mac. BUT, I hate it when I see people writing off other groups using similar innovations AND not even recognizing maybe some other kick-ass things happening in the industry. MS and Apple are not the only two companies in the world.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=he-j1BbZf58 --- watch and just try and tell me that anything MS or Apple has done is half as amazing.
OH and if you're up for some back story, check this page/videos (one year prior to iPhone announcement) --- http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/
k thx bai
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Note here - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9950674-7.html?tag=bl
The screen is lowered and angled so that it is essentially the upper part of the keyboard.
People who think that a multi-touch screen would be mounted vertically on a stand are failing to think differently.
I still think that the iMac G4 form factor would be the best; I'd strain my neck looking at that slightly angled screen all day.
Analog Kid
macrumors G3
Any idea how they're going to plug it into the existing UI? "Finger as Mouse" is obvious, and that already exists in just about all tablet UIs. How is an existing app going to benefit from the new technology? I'm having a hard time imagining how the new gestures can be mapped to existing events...
What Apple has done with iPhone is half as amazing. What MS has shown in their Surface demo is at least half as amazing.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
"Finger as mouse" is the only sure benefit. Some generalizations are possible ("scroll" can be the "hand" paradigm - moving the finger in the main frame can scroll the image or text, no need to only "finger as mouse" on the scroll bars.
Most of the bang would come from minor mods to existing apps. Google Earth, for example, uses the scroll wheel for "pinch" and "unpinch", and arrows and control arrows for navigation. Either add gestures as synonyms in the event loop, or modify the preferences for the app to add these as synonyms.
Actually, for Google Earth (and MS Streets and probably quite a few other apps), the scroll wheel is zoom in/out (unpinch/pinch) but there aren't any scroll bars. It would be easy for the system to present pinch/unpinch as scroll wheel events to existing apps if the app doesn't have scroll bars for the window in focus.
The engineer I talked to (the guy in the photo, BTW), is mostly excited by new apps on new hardware - what we'll see after this is mainstream for a few years. He's not interested in a "better UI for MSPAINT".
If you bought a new system for Vista, it was because your old one wasn't powerful enough. If you buy a new system for W7, it will be because you really want the multi-touch UI. (If you have a mini-tower, a new screen and graphics card may be enough.)
Let's be realistic here. What Apple has done is miniaturise this technology and bring it to market in a very good, top selling product, and utilising it in place of a wand and a miniature keypad. Fact.
What MS has done is show for the second time, the same thing they demonstrated in a coffee table months ago. Both are lame and pointless. And importantly, it isn't available to buy, it isn't at all useful in a normal sized personal computer.
Those people having difficulty understanding this, really need to look at the facts and study basic ergonomics.
What MS has done is show for the second time, the same thing they demonstrated in a coffee table months ago. Both are lame and pointless. And importantly, it isn't available to buy, it isn't at all useful in a normal sized personal computer.
Those people having difficulty understanding this, really need to look at the facts and study basic ergonomics.
BongoBanger
macrumors 68000
So little argument, and absolutely no sense.
Every point I made was either a solid fact or a prediction based on real experience that we will probably have to wait years to discover is also equally correct.
It IS lame and pointless. In fact, it's an application looking for a use, but looking in the wrong place!
It isn't available to buy, and probably never should be. But if it is, M$ will lose BILLIONS on it.
It isn't at all useful in a normal sized personal computer.
Every point I made was either a solid fact or a prediction based on real experience that we will probably have to wait years to discover is also equally correct.
It IS lame and pointless. In fact, it's an application looking for a use, but looking in the wrong place!
It isn't available to buy, and probably never should be. But if it is, M$ will lose BILLIONS on it.
It isn't at all useful in a normal sized personal computer.
deputylove8
macrumors regular
Erm... it seems a little sloppy to me. Don't get me wrong - I'm not an Apple fanboy. I'm using Windows Vista right now. I just don't think touch screen functionality is ideal for home and office use of computers. I like my keyboard and my mouse/touchpad.
Your input is perhaps the most telling here.
When the computer buying/using world was still young and naive, the choices were limited and a smelly little geek could con an exclusive deal out of a huge multinational like IBM, stuff like this would have wowed the masses - and sold.
But now, at a time when the entire computer market and user base is largely well matured, the take-up of what is little more than a demo gimmick is bound to be small, for the simple reason that it isn't useful.
It isn't at all surprising that MS have latched onto this though. Their experience of trying to rip off Mac OS X has spawned a wave of disappointment, followed by an unnaturally hasty announcement of a replacement.
The Zune, MS's iPod rip-off has been an utter embarrassment, mainly because it was such an obvious rip-off and it was fat and ugly, had crap, restrictive features, lame user options and buggy GUI.
So they had to go for something else. Even the demo video, is designed to mimmic the beautiful simplicity of the Apple iPhone ads, but without the pro editing and the cute tune.
And why not? If something works, why not copy it? Well, for one thing, eventually, when you've pulled the same stunt so many times, there will be enough people in the world who have seen the original and they are going to spot the imitator, and reject it.
In a mature, intelligent world, the market rewards true innovation, not imitation. And in this case, the numbers will surely speak for themselves.
And whatever anyone's personal definition of a 'fanboy' is, it's insulting to suggest that being a fan of any product is in some way a suitable state for derision. Intelligent people do research, form intelligent opinions and make intelligent decisions based on those opinions.
Therefore, since all the evidence is that Apple are ahead in the innovation game [and by innovation I include the sensible and appropriate application of other people's ideas], being an Apple 'fanboy' is therefore a compliment. It's easy to pretend that the imitator is better, but only in the same way Hans Christian Andersen did in his fairy tale "The Emperor's New Clothes".
When the computer buying/using world was still young and naive, the choices were limited and a smelly little geek could con an exclusive deal out of a huge multinational like IBM, stuff like this would have wowed the masses - and sold.
But now, at a time when the entire computer market and user base is largely well matured, the take-up of what is little more than a demo gimmick is bound to be small, for the simple reason that it isn't useful.
It isn't at all surprising that MS have latched onto this though. Their experience of trying to rip off Mac OS X has spawned a wave of disappointment, followed by an unnaturally hasty announcement of a replacement.
The Zune, MS's iPod rip-off has been an utter embarrassment, mainly because it was such an obvious rip-off and it was fat and ugly, had crap, restrictive features, lame user options and buggy GUI.
So they had to go for something else. Even the demo video, is designed to mimmic the beautiful simplicity of the Apple iPhone ads, but without the pro editing and the cute tune.
And why not? If something works, why not copy it? Well, for one thing, eventually, when you've pulled the same stunt so many times, there will be enough people in the world who have seen the original and they are going to spot the imitator, and reject it.
In a mature, intelligent world, the market rewards true innovation, not imitation. And in this case, the numbers will surely speak for themselves.
And whatever anyone's personal definition of a 'fanboy' is, it's insulting to suggest that being a fan of any product is in some way a suitable state for derision. Intelligent people do research, form intelligent opinions and make intelligent decisions based on those opinions.
Therefore, since all the evidence is that Apple are ahead in the innovation game [and by innovation I include the sensible and appropriate application of other people's ideas], being an Apple 'fanboy' is therefore a compliment. It's easy to pretend that the imitator is better, but only in the same way Hans Christian Andersen did in his fairy tale "The Emperor's New Clothes".
Come on guys if this was a mac with multi touch you would be saying this is the coolest thing in the world...
I love OS X but Apple hardware is what to expensive and out dated...
My Dell Vostro 1500 with GeForce 8600m GT 256mb, 4 GB Ram and 200gb hd, and 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo is as fast as a Macbook pro yet I only payed $1200 Shipped from Dell. The MacBook pro would be $2330 for the same thing...
Apples hardware sucks and is way to expensive...
I love OS X but Apple hardware is what to expensive and out dated...
My Dell Vostro 1500 with GeForce 8600m GT 256mb, 4 GB Ram and 200gb hd, and 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo is as fast as a Macbook pro yet I only payed $1200 Shipped from Dell. The MacBook pro would be $2330 for the same thing...
Apples hardware sucks and is way to expensive...
Yep, but no-one ever comes up to you and says: "Cool laptop. Is it a Mac?"
And why? Because it isn't. It's a... what do you call it? A Dell Vostro 1500? What the hell kind of a name is that? Sounds like a Communist era car built in Kazakhstan! It's vomit inducing in the extreme. And Dell wonder why they're in the ****? I just Googled the word - and it doesn't exist. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't even suggest anything you'd want to have anything to do with.
Okay, you might say, 'MacBook' isn't a word. And that's true. But 'MacBook' is onomatopoeic. It describes what it is. It's a book with Mac OS on it. Add 'Pro' to it, and guess what? - Yep, you've got the Pro version!! **** me!
It isn't rocket science. If you're happy telling people you've got a hefty, generic, fat, vomit machine made of boring black plastic, fine. Some people have taste.
And what does: "Apple hardware is what to expensive and out dated" mean?
Are you suggesting Apple hardware is WAY TOO expensive and out dated by any chance? Bollox. Apple are way ahead and about to update their Macbook and MacBook Pro range. Dell have only just caught up. And Apple make a profit.
And why? Because it isn't. It's a... what do you call it? A Dell Vostro 1500? What the hell kind of a name is that? Sounds like a Communist era car built in Kazakhstan! It's vomit inducing in the extreme. And Dell wonder why they're in the ****? I just Googled the word - and it doesn't exist. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't even suggest anything you'd want to have anything to do with.
Okay, you might say, 'MacBook' isn't a word. And that's true. But 'MacBook' is onomatopoeic. It describes what it is. It's a book with Mac OS on it. Add 'Pro' to it, and guess what? - Yep, you've got the Pro version!! **** me!
It isn't rocket science. If you're happy telling people you've got a hefty, generic, fat, vomit machine made of boring black plastic, fine. Some people have taste.
And what does: "Apple hardware is what to expensive and out dated" mean?
Are you suggesting Apple hardware is WAY TOO expensive and out dated by any chance? Bollox. Apple are way ahead and about to update their Macbook and MacBook Pro range. Dell have only just caught up. And Apple make a profit.
DMann
macrumors 601
Bill Gates didn't have to, the headlines and stories do it for him. It may surprise you that it is not the media, but Microsoft's PR which generates and sends this stuff, i.e. "iPod Killer," to PR Newswire and the media. Bill Gates can then appear modest, while the headlines, generated by his own company, make the "iPod Killer" claims. And indeed, you are correct - Microsoft has blinded most everybody with their desperate and feeble business practices, paid to say reviews, shady product placement, and slippery sales reports (certainly you've heard Ballmer's claim during his Zune interview, that it took about 20-25% of the high end of the market) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo
More about Ms's pitiful business practices: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/D0BC712B-7DBA-46CA-AA44-19376E64FBA6.html
BongoBanger
macrumors 68000
As soon as anyone posts something from roughlydrafted.com they lose all credibility.
Seriously though, some of you guys need to relax the MS hate a little because you just come across as frothing mouthed lunatics. Sure, MS have some dodgy business practices but so does every large corporation.
And yes, that includes Apple.
Honestly, chill a little.
Seriously though, some of you guys need to relax the MS hate a little because you just come across as frothing mouthed lunatics. Sure, MS have some dodgy business practices but so does every large corporation.
And yes, that includes Apple.
Honestly, chill a little.
AndyClarke
macrumors regular
I agree. I can not be bothered with all the screen cleaning that would be required. Keep the touch pad seperate.
I have a very simple rule. I never accept advice about anything from anyone I haven't checked out thoroughly.
And my analyst tells me I'm too laid back and need to be more assertive. So I'd ditch the psych career if I were you m8!
A fool attacks the things he doesn't understand. A wise man engages with everything and then discards what he does not need. In pointing out the gross drossness that is M$, we are rejecting what we don't need.
We are also actually educating you. If you haven't paid for your sessions, please see the girl at the door and give her your credit card.
🙂
And my analyst tells me I'm too laid back and need to be more assertive. So I'd ditch the psych career if I were you m8!
A fool attacks the things he doesn't understand. A wise man engages with everything and then discards what he does not need. In pointing out the gross drossness that is M$, we are rejecting what we don't need.
We are also actually educating you. If you haven't paid for your sessions, please see the girl at the door and give her your credit card.
🙂
DMann
macrumors 601
(The pot now calls the kettle black)
Before you trash Daniel Eran Dilger, his website, and his many well researched articles, consider this: CNET, Fox News and ZDNet, are actual news sites; all of which have printed droves of stories, reviews, and articles with much less credibility, research, accuracy, and reliability than Dilger has. This article in particular: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/D0BC712B-7DBA-46CA-AA44-19376E64FBA6.html very accurately reveals yet only a small sampling of MS's dodgy business practices you seem to both downplay and deem as unreliable. What makes your comment further perplexing is that you refer to "anyone" as "they" within the same sentence. Surely, you do not intend to be judging credibility here.
Not to the extent we have witnessed here.