actually, judging from the video of moving/manipulating the photos, its about as polished as the surface was. That is a finished product (im talking about the surface) and frankly the touch response isnt terrible, but its far from great.
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Windows Goes Multi-Touch
- Thread starter Mykbibby
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Realize these are 2 different projects. While the demo may have been derived from the Surface, both utilize 2 different technologies, and there is no reason why Windows 7's cant be further improved.
I don't think anyone here expects Microsoft to know what technologies will be in Windows 7 until after June 9, at the earliest. What I did find strange is that the demo was as basic as it was-- I'm surprised they exposed the public to it.
The only explanation I can think of is that they felt the need to put something out there so they could claim they demonstrated desktop multitouch first. Other than that, it was completely uninspiring, even when compared to Surface.
It's actually not the touch part that bothers me-- it's MS's take on it. Everything hanging at odd angles, jumping on top of each other, no real discipline. Is this the direction they plan to take it in?
Are they expecting that everyone is going to want to use two index fingers to stretch a picture? Is stab and wait the new right click?
For a technology demo, it just didn't fill me with excitement about the future. I didn't see anything I haven't seen before.
Apparentely this demo wasn't for you...
Yes, Microsoft is just so concerned about Apple and whether or not they get it out first that they strategically planned to reveal a multi-touch concept that they've been hinting at since 2005 and the inception of the Microsoft Surface... It had nothing to do with demoing new feature in their upcoming OS.
For a product that is not coming for another 18 months, your being awfully cynical. Its a concept, and nothing is set in stone, other than Windows 7 will have multi-touch capabilities.
They aren't expecting anything.
They weren't exactly labeling the demo as "all new features" or "the next big revolution in computing", now were they? It seems to be you were expecting too much.
Actually, MS is quite impressed with Apple's ability to innovate, their implementation of their innovations in terms of OS, applications, design and software integration, hardware design, and their ability to actually produce a product and market it successfully. Why MS attempted to follow suit with, for example, the Zune is beyond comprehension - without the ability to innovate on a truly functional and useful level and actually follow through, billions of dollars of time, effort, and money seem to have been squandered. As far as 'Surface' is concerned, it is one great big table, but Jeff Han did much of the innovating there, and his version seems much more practical.
Absolutely correct, what we saw of Windows 7 was hardly a demo of Windows 7, since there is nothing significant enough yet developed on that front to show. For a single feature, this was merely a teaser, but hardly one to be considered highly practical. It was fun, however, listening to the interview steer toward more pertinent things, such as 'the good old days' when Bill was at Harvard...... Do bear in mind, that Longhorn's touted demo back in 2003 featured innovations i.e. simulation of jiggling paper across the screen, kaleidoscopic projections of multiple movie files in mirrored formats, and other features which had hinted at any level of practicality. However, it was a demo, though, and did suggest an eventual release.
Yes, it is safe to predict that Windows 7 will have multi-touch capabilities.
You're probably right.
True, let's cut 'em some slack - when they come up with another feature, I'm sure we'll be hearing about it.
Actually, have you ever used a Zune? Talking about the Zune the way you did would suggest you haven't. May I direct you to [Cnet]
The general consensus is that its a worthy iPod alternative and in some regards, better.
The Surface IS one big table. Its supposed to be used in public areas, involving more than 1 person. Nothing wrong with that...
If not me, then who?
Oh, right. It was meant for you...Yes, Microsoft is just so concerned about Apple and whether or not they get it out first that they strategically planned to reveal a multi-touch concept that they've been hinting at since 2005 and the inception of the Microsoft Surface... It had nothing to do with demoing new feature in their upcoming OS.
Yes, you nailed exactly what I was trying to say, and backed it up with a fine example. That 2005 date when Surface was incepted? Milestone date. Now you have another you can store away for the next big argument over who-did-what-first.
You yourself are saying that what we saw isn't tied to the implementation that will be in Windows 7, and the videos for Surface were much more inspiring as far as thinking about where the technology could go, so what other reason can there be? They wanted to show it rolled into desktop Windows.
I dunno, WinFS sounded pretty set in stone too... I'm not placing bets on touch.
Anyway, the whole point of a "concept demo" is to demonstrate a concept-- and they didn't. That was my point. This wasn't an engineering design review where they were showing that they have the plumbing in place to handle touch, this was a media demo for D-- a tech press orgy. What I saw, I wouldn't have exposed to the public. I would have rolled out a Surface table and demoed that, with the constant verbal point being made that we are moving this same technology into Windows 7. Surface=cool. Windows 7=Surface. Transitive property.
Instead, I just kind of got the felling that my computer is going to look like my desk.
I think you're right and it quite compactly sums up their problem. No vision.
Multitouch is a checkbox item, not driving a concept in computing.
I was expecting the largest software R&D operation on the planet to show me something new. I was expecting an idea of where the world was heading, or at least where MS thought it was.
What is this even doing on a mac forum site. This is only flamebait for Apple fanboys to froth over.
They patented some specific gestures, and I think they copyrighted the term "multitouch".
Multi-touch in general (touch sensitivity to multiple points of contact) has existed for years (not necessarily in consumer products) and Apple was not the first company to develop a multitouch technology.
Actually, a client gave me a black Zune 4 as a gift. Worthy of an iPod alternative, Perhaps, but only if iPods were not in existence. I won't begin to vent/elaborate on the plethora of shortcomings, as the public has already spoken for themselves: Gamestop decided to discontinue sales of Microsoft Zune:
http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2008/05/23/gamestop-discontinue-sales-microsoft%26%23039;s-zune
Public areas, yes, "cheers, I'll drink to that!! (CRASH)
Try, MS's true exposure for what it is - a company which does not have the ability to innovate, despite it's vast monetary resources, implement, or even dream of concrete and useful things for the future. Let's face it, MS has indeed released much flamebait for the entire world to wonder about.
Wow. Your basing the Zune's shortcoming based on it sales in a video game store. Get Real
"GameStop also said that one of the factors that led to the decision of giving up Zune sales was the fact that it does not match the product types they are offering (video games and related hardware)." - Yahoo
No, actually, I think crusadermn nailed it. I mean, look at you...
I could write a 10 page article on why it is a problematic product with problematic software and menu navigation, but I'd much rather keep trying to find someone to swap a song with using the sharing feature - ooops only plays 2.5 times and then (poof)
I'm not the one who claimed the Zune would be an iPod killer, nor am I the one who claimed Vista would be a Leopard killer. (take a closer look at MS, I'm not even the messenger, just a passing observer)
Please do... I'd like to hear your opinion.
Yes, Microsoft claimed the Zune would be an iPod killer... When? The zune was labeled an "iPod killer" only by the press.
And MS claiming Vista would "kill" Leopard, an OS that came out after it...The same Leopard that it surpassed, including all its predecessors, in 8 months... Really? That makes no sense!
If you say so - since when does Bill Gates represent the press?:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-...-no-ipod-killer/2006/11/15/1163266598981.html
True, but they said it anyway. Surpassed Leopard by default only. I wouldn't be overly proud of Vista's percentage of satisfied customers though:
Attachments
Yep, zero here. Can't remember the last time I saw a kernel panic on OSX of any flavor. Years and years ago.
Still no mention of MS being quoted as calling the Zune as an iPod killer. The only thing even close is Ballmer saying we can beat them, but it's not going to be easy.
The iPod killer thing is, as previously noted, a quote invented by the press as their interpretation of MS saying they could beat Apple. And they still might. Who knows.
There is still the very good argument that Apple is traveling down EXACTLY the same path that nearly killed them the first time around. They have created a better and more expensive product mainly because it's a closed system. As the competition (MS) comes out with viable alternatives that are more open and more lucrative to developers to create for, then they will create for whatever is easier and more profitable.
And hardware is another issue. Take Apple's success to the extreme... Apple gains a 80 percent market share! Yay? Well, that would mean they are a thousand times closer to a monopoly than MS. MS pretty much has the OS, but hundreds of manufacturers make the computers. If Apple had won the OS war, then they would have the near monopoly AND they wouldn't allow anyone to be making the hardware either if they didn't license the OS. That is the true big brother scenario. The marketplace will never let that happen.
Did you read that yourself? There's not even a quote from Bill Gates in there... However, Ballmer did say
"We can beat them, but it's not going to be easy," Now how you translate into that being an iPod killer, I don't know... Maybe your hate for Microsoft has blinded you.
Where/When did they call Vista a "Leopard Killer"? Please, do show.
As for satisfaction, it would be interesting to get some results from SP1. Even Ballmer notes Vista is a "work in progress"
I really dont like this multi-touch screen. changing from moving a mouse a couple inches at a time to moving both your hands anywhere from an inch to however big your screen is can be very annoying. If you work in 3D media like I do, this idea is very unpractical. while it would be cool to try out. I find it useless. you need to be very accurate when doing photoshop/3d work and a finger half an inch thick will never be as accurate as a mouse pointer with a 1-pixel thick tip. I can sorta see putting stylus-tips on your fingers, but that still brings up the fatigue issue. Try waving your arms around for 2 hours straight, let alone 10 minutes without feeling a bit tired. You cant move your arms for 10 seconds in front of your screen and say that was a decent test of fatigue. THat's like running for 10 seconds and not being tired so you think you can do it forever.
It wouldn't matter to me if apple or MSFT made it, it wouldn't be worth it. all it would be is annoying...plus you have to clean your screen...yuck how many people hate it when people touch your screen?? Most of you? so why would you want to spend your whole time putting your greasy fingers on your screen? The last part is expenses. THe Computer that would be able to do this would be much more costly than normal. I just cant see very many people investing into a computer like this.
It wouldn't matter to me if apple or MSFT made it, it wouldn't be worth it. all it would be is annoying...plus you have to clean your screen...yuck how many people hate it when people touch your screen?? Most of you? so why would you want to spend your whole time putting your greasy fingers on your screen? The last part is expenses. THe Computer that would be able to do this would be much more costly than normal. I just cant see very many people investing into a computer like this.
The way I see it, I don't think multi-touch is intended to erase the need for a mouse and keyboard. However, In my test, I simulated a casual activity --reading email, or surfing the web, no doubt needs would be different for professional uses or word processing.
I haven't seen your opinion on the demo, Syrus. You've done a bang up job of defending Microsoft's honor, but you haven't actually said much about the thread topic.
What's your take? Is the general dissatisfaction being registered here just off the wall flaming? Why? What does the demo show that's worthy of praise?
...that the multi-touch metaphor is a core UI element for Windows 7, and therefore older applications will benefit, and new applications can really exploit it.
For example, when two-dimensional (up-down) scroll mouses were introduced, the support was in the core - scroll wheels worked in almost all applications, even the oldest.
It sounds to my like Microsoft is just trying to be the first for once. After the success of the iPhone, it's pretty obvious Apple is going to introduce this to Mac OS in the future.
However, I think the Apple version of a desktop multi-touch interface will be far more inituive. In fact, I think the multi-touch in Windows 7 will just be an extra, something for people who happen to have a touch screen.
However, I think the Apple version of a desktop multi-touch interface will be far more inituive. In fact, I think the multi-touch in Windows 7 will just be an extra, something for people who happen to have a touch screen.
It's also pretty obvious that Microsoft's been working on multi-touch for years before the Iphone.
And how does this differ from Apple? Will Apple be able to add multi-touch to the current alu Imac? (One difference is that Apple doesn't sell any touch screen computers, and there are quite a few tablets and a few desktops available already on the Windows side.)
They'll both introduce new MID and UMPC devices with multi-touch.
It's 24x7