WINE for Intel Macs?

[HiRez]

😱 Hideous and heinous beyond description...this unholy beast must have its head severed before it's too late for mankind...

 

[HiRez]

You do realize that the scenario you just described would work on OS X without even needing Windows. If you yourself can delete files there is nothing stopping a script from doing the same. 🙄 Basically all you are doing is spreading FUD.

Yes, but it's a lot easier for such malware to get onto your computer in the first place, and then execute, through Windoze than it is through OS X. You're basically bringing the security of everything down to the lowest common denominator, which is Windoze. This should be a real concern for people, I know I would never trust it on the same drive. If I were going to play around with this I'd find a way to shut down or block off my internal drive and boot Win from a dedicated external.

 

[mkaake]

Yes, but it's a lot easier for such malware to get onto your computer in the first place, and then execute, through Windoze than it is through OS X. You're basically bringing the security of everything down to the lowest common denominator, which is Windoze. This should be a real concern for people, I know I would never trust it on the same drive. If I were going to play around with this I'd find a way to shut down or block off my internal drive and boot Win from a dedicated external.

wine doesn't run windows on your computer to run windows programs... so how do you get windows insecurity without windows?

windows programs aren't the problem, it's windows itself...

 

[HiRez]

wine doesn't run windows on your computer to run windows programs... so how do you get windows insecurity without windows?

Sorry about that, I was just replying to a message about dual-booting Win/OS X in another thread, think I confused myself there. 🙄

 

[yellow]

Here's an idea of how windows viruses might fare under OS X:

http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222

 

[MrCrowbar]

There aren't many evil viruses out there that really currupt all your data. Most of them are spyware apps that turn your computer into zombies without you ever knowing.

Whether I dual boot or have WINE to run the win apps, I would isolate the whole on a partition or even an external drive (does the MBP have the good USB ports that can power external 2,5" discs like the powerbooks did?). Running an anti vurus programm should be easy when running windows natively, but with WINE I guess it won't work.

But face it, Macs are cool, Mac apps too. But sometimes, you need those windows apps for business (windows world). I wonder if Microsoft will deliver a snappy VPC. The greatest still would be dual boot with fast user switching though. 😛

 

[SiliconAddict]

Yes, but it's a lot easier for such malware to get onto your computer in the first place, and then execute, through Windoze than it is through OS X. You're basically bringing the security of everything down to the lowest common denominator, which is Windoze. This should be a real concern for people, I know I would never trust it on the same drive. If I were going to play around with this I'd find a way to shut down or block off my internal drive and boot Win from a dedicated external.

And you do realize that it wouldn't even work from a winDOWS point of view right? Your documents in Windows are in C:\documents and settings\[username]\My Documents vs. OS X's /users/[username]/documents
the pathing would be all wrong so they would have to actually code it for OS X. From a standpoint of using Windows outside of OS X. Windows can't even read an OS X partition so who cares and 99% of the viruses and Trojans in the last 6 years have been the variant that DOES not dink with people's MBR (you don't kill off the patient if you want to spread the disease.) which doesn't even exist on a Mac which kills the remaining 1%. It seems like people are determined to bang the FUD drum.

 

[yellow]

I wonder if Microsoft will deliver a snappy VPC.

I doubt it.

I really figure they're sitting on their hands right about now, "working" on a new VPC, but really waiting until someone dual-boots or WINEs it, at which point they will declare VPC EOL'd and be done with it.

But maybe, just maybe.. there's a giant room filled with cigar-smoking monkeys sitting at computers, baanging away randomly at the keyboard until they come up with VPC8.. or Vista.. whichever comes first.

Knuckles takes a well deserved break from coding for Microsoft.​

 

[SiliconAddict]

There aren't many evil viruses out there that really currupt all your data. Most of them are spyware apps that turn your computer into zombies without you ever knowing.

Whether I dual boot or have WINE to run the win apps, I would isolate the whole on a partition or even an external drive (does the MBP have the good USB ports that can power external 2,5" discs like the powerbooks did?). Running an anti vurus programm should be easy when running windows natively, but with WINE I guess it won't work.

But face it, Macs are cool, Mac apps too. But sometimes, you need those windows apps for business (windows world). I wonder if Microsoft will deliver a snappy VPC. The greatest still would be dual boot with fast user switching though. 😛

Bingo. We have a sane and coherent winner.

 

[macluvrOSx]

WINE is not emulation, nor is it windows

So many of you are bashing WINE becuase you hate windows and don't want anything to do with Microsoft. What you're not realizing is that WINE is not windows - in fact it has absolutely nothing to do with windows. WINE is an environment that allows windows applications to run without windows and without emulation. It really doesn't get any better than this.

Yes, you'll be able to run Office (word, access, frontpage, publisher, excel...) but literally hundreds of thousands of "non microsoft" windows applications as well. I haven't played "Sim Tower" in forever because they never ported it to OSX and Classic doesn't work on Intel Macs. Once this project gets going, I'll be able to run Sim Tower.exe just like i would any other .app executable - and without any degredation in speed due to emulation.

The other big concern is that there will be viruses. Once again - this is NOT windows, and therefore is not going to have issues with viruses. Additionally, where do viruses come from?? The big two are IE and Outlook. So don't use IE and Outlook and you should be fine. Sure there are always some strange cases, but in this case the positives outweigh the negatives times a million.

Personally I can't wait. I've been using WINE on linux for some time now with great success and WINE for OSX would be incredible

 

[kwajo.com]

while this is good, I'd wait for something like Virtual PC which allows me to keep all the Windows crap self contained in a virtual drive/disk image that can save my normal hard drive partitions from data corruption or the remote chance of virus damage

 

[Hattig]

Good stuff, didn't think it would take that long before a port appeared.

Just wait for the WINE based games compatibility layer ... sure there'll be a hit from the Direct X -> OpenGL translation layer (as on Linux) but more games will work on Mac OS X directly. And certainly the lack of naff integrated graphics on Macs will mean a higher graphical capability than the average PC, so most games will run quite nicely, if not as fast as an equivalent hardware PC (which != average PC in terms of graphics).

 

[nagromme]

Nobody WANTS to have to settle for Windows apps, and for most average home users, there's no need to.

But for others, they HAVE to use a Windows app dictated by their work, or simply want to preserve their investment in Windows apps they've already paid for. Having more options for that on Mac is GOOD!

And WINE won't hurt Mac software development. People still want REAL Mac apps with REAL Mac features and appearance. (And the WINE experience is not polished and complete and compatible enough to be on the radar for everyday non-techie users anyway. Yet. But I watch the project with interest!)

 

[LimeiBook86]

This is very good news! 😀 I even heard that some people have gotten Counter-Strike 1.6 to run via WINE...you hear that? Counter-Strike...on...a...Mac! That's right Valve! There is a demand for it for Mac!! 😉

Anyway this can only mean good things to come. I can't wait for more news on this, this is wonderful 😀 No more crappy Mac OS X versions of MSN & Yahoo 😉

 

[manu chao]

Here's an idea of how windows viruses might fare under OS X:

http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222

This is quite reassuring, I am still not sure whether I prefer WINE to a sandbox kind of system like VPC. VPC is way more susceptible to viruses than WINE but nothing outside the sandbox can ever be touched.

 

[ctachme]

Meh... I'd rather dual-boot and get 100% performace... plus 100% of the Windows apps acutally woking. I'll consider Darwine when it can do both of these things. Otherwise, just give me a copy of Vista and be done with it.

 

[Dave00]

If this got up and running, it truly would be a Godsend. I am in what I think is a very common position in business - I have one application at work that I need to run that does not have a Mac OSX port (Medical Manager). Everything else I would use can be done better on Mac OS - internet/email, Office/productivity, etc. After dealing once again with a complete system meltdown on my Windows PC - more and more frequent blue screens of death, with "driver errors", eventually leading to an inability to boot and $300 worth of diagnostics/repair - I was really strongly considering replacing the system with an iMac or mini. However, the small customer base of the company that makes our practice management software leaves them no incentive to make a mac version, so I'm screwed. WINE will change all that. Can't wait.

Dave

 

[AidenShaw]

Although this could have a very negative effect. Software companies could see this as an opportunity to develop even less native software for the mac. 🙁

A real risk...

If the Windows .exe/.dll/.etc run well on OSx86, many companies will consider this.

 

[nagromme]

I think whether companies keep developing for Mac depends on only one thing: demand and sales.

I see demand rising, not falling, so I don't share those fears.

Demand will fall a TINY amount from people who are willing to settle for Windows apps, with their own UI tacked onto the Mac UI (not good usability, but does the job).

Demand will grow a HUGE amount as the Mac market grows. And ability to run Windows apps will in fact help that to happen.

If you think demand for Mac apps will shrink, then you must think people's willingness to run Windows apps on Mac will grow faster than the growth of the Mac market. You must think Mac users will be willing to "settle" for Windows apps on a large scale.

I think the reverse will be true, in a big way. In fact, if a developer cancelled their Mac version of an app, I think more Mac owners would boycott the app (maybe keep their old Mac version or find an alternative) than rush to buy the Windows version on WINE.

Some Mac owners ALREADY use Windows apps if they have to. They run VPC or keep an old PC around. It's not like living dual-platform is some new option. But the point is that it's something Mac users do if they HAVE to--but they'd rather have the Mac version. That demand won't go away.

Most people may not need Windows apps on Mac, but some do (including me, for occasional Windows testing at least), and having the option is a good thing for the Mac platform, not a bad one.

 

[maxp1]

I'm not trying to spread FUD here I'm trying to inject a word of caution. While it is neat and usefull that you can run .exe files, It would be unwise to not worry about viruses.

The article posted above does a rather lame attempt to run these viruses. If virus writes clued in a bit they might be able to easily re-write the virus to effect an OSX system. Nobody knows at this point. I don't think you can blanket say "Oh, this will never be a problem." So far we've been immune to viruses, but add another API, one that's known to be vulnerable, and who knows? There are a lot of virus writers out there.

I'd be VERY cautious about installing WINE on any computer of mine until more is known about virus susceptibility. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

 

[nagromme]

I'd definitely rather have a VPC-style sandbox for my Windows apps. Security is one reason, and the other is the full Windows compatibility.

Dual-booting would not meet my needs for security (a Windows virus can't READ your Mac partition, but it can ERASE it). It also wouldn't meet my needs for using ALL my apps--Mac and Windows alike--at ONCE. VPC (or a competitor) will allow that, complete with drag-and-drop and copy-paste between Mac and Windows.

WINE is neat, but a virtualized OS (now at full speed unlike emulated VPC in the past) is definitely the better solution for many people.

 

[sishaw]

Wine on OSX

This is good news, but, as those of you who have used WINE on Linux know, it doesn't always work perfectly with all Windows programs (but it does work very well with a number of them). Still, for those who want to use a Mac but have just one or two programs for which they need Windows, this should make the Mac/OSX environment more attractive. Just be sure to read up on whether your particular program is supported.

 

[MrCrowbar]

[...]
The article posted above does a rather lame attempt to run these viruses. If virus writes clued in a bit they might be able to easily re-write the virus to effect an OSX system. Nobody knows at this point. I don't think you can blanket say "Oh, this will never be a problem." So far we've been immune to viruses, but add another API, one that's known to be vulnerable, and who knows? There are a lot of virus writers out there.
[...]

No offence, but most virus makers don't care for Mac (yet). Thus even less of them would care for the little percentage of Mac useres running WINE. Thus it is highly unprobable for a Windows virus to be made so it affects the Mac. There have always been viruses out there for Macs, but due to it's low market, there wasn't a big "demand" for mac viruses. But this may change in the future with growing market share. One day the Mac community might want to run a virus scanner on their mashines. 🙁

 

[GFLPraxis]

For home, I don't really care about PC emulation, but at work, I have a PC box and Mac mini on my desk, and I would prefer to have a iMac or Mac Book Pro or Mac Pro.

Anyway, I think this has some real potential.., bring on the switchers.🙂

This is not emulation. This adds the Win32 API's so Windows apps run natively at near full speed in OS X.

As for you virus-paranoid people- don't worry. WINE either sets aside a special folder or a special partition and tells apps into that's the C: drive. The worst that can happen is a virus wipes the contents of that folder or infects the Windows files. It might slow down performance (close WINE, it goes away) but it's not going to hurt the OS X side.

On top of it, as long as you're not running Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, or all those stupid Windows services that are enabled by default, you don't have all the Windows security holes. Thus, there is no risk of Windows vulnerabilities. No exploits. People aren't going to be able to use Windows exploits to install a virus automatically. The only way you can get a virus is deliberately downloading a trojan.

 

[nagromme]

There have always been viruses out there for Macs

Small correction: "prior to Mac OS X" 🙂

You're right that someday we may need antivirus protection. But to date there has never been a Mac OS X virus or worm. (There were a few viruses for 1984-2001 pre-OS X macs.)