With the Google Antitrust Ruling, Will Apple Build a Search Engine?

[AppliedMicro]

A search engine isn't a privacy problem unless you give away a lot of personal information in your search queries.

Search queries on personal devices give away a lot of your personal interests, hobbies, preferences and possible fetishes.

They didn't become wealthy by accident. They worked hard to make their money.

Paying off Apple to become default isn‘t hard work though.

Why are you bringing politics into this which has nothing to do with this?

I did and do consider your „Sure wish the government would stay out of this and allow a free market.“ a political statement.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Paying off Apple to become default isn‘t hard work though.

People pay big money to get the best seats at a concert, don't they? Is that considered a Monopoly? Are they depriving others from getting these seats? Probably, but they worked hard to pay big money for the best seats.
Do you consider private clubs as monopolies just because you don't belong to them?

 

[webkit]

People pay big money to get the best seats at a concert, don't they? Is that considered a Monopoly?

"Paying the big money" wasn't the monopoly part. The monopoly part was related to Google's significant market share in search.

The exorbitant payments or "big money" to Apple, Mozilla, Samsung, etc. for the coveted pre-set default search position was the anticompetitive behavior part as it created increased barriers in the market by unfairly limiting the visibility of competitors, allowing Google to maintain its monopoly, etc.

It was being a monopoly AND the anticompetitive behavior that led to the ruling, not just one or the other.

 

[Ethosik]

Not all versions work the same. Microsoft copilot used here. Not bad for a limited first generation product. It also says for a complete list go to the link at the bottom of reply. Note no ads.

Basic Crafting Recipes​

1. Crafting Table
   • Recipe: 4 Wooden Planks
   • Use: Expands the crafting grid to 3x3.
2. Wooden Planks
   • Recipe: 1 Wood Log
   • Use: Basic building material and crafting ingredient.
3. Sticks
   • Recipe: 2 Wooden Planks
   • Use: Used to craft tools, weapons, and other items.
4. Torch
   • Recipe: 1 Stick + 1 Coal/Charcoal
   • Use: Provides light and prevents mobs from spawning.

ChatGPT completely failed. Which is the context of the discussion chain (SearchGPT was also mentioned).

 

[TheBMacAttack]

I am really not sure how this changes anything. So I have no idea what the ratio of new iPhone users to current iPhone users is, but I know the vast majority are current. With that in mind, even if they change this most people’s phones are already set to Google as the default search. Changing this won’t change that for most. Me included.

 

[.wojtek]

Isn't that what they teach you in business school? Business strategy, you need to be smarted to survive, blah, blah, blah...
If you don't want other rental buildings to compete with yours, you buy the ones around you. Will this move be considered a monopoly? Heck, if people don't like your rent, they can rent somewhere else.

Also, there's no monopoly when other search engines and apps like WhatsApp, instagram, etc. can also exist.

fair competition.There is no such thing in dolar driven "land of the free" 🤷‍♂️

EOT

 

[npmacuser5]

ChatGPT completely failed. Which is the context of the discussion chain (SearchGPT was also mentioned).

All are ChatGPT, different tools. Microsoft is offering more tools. Nothing to do with the technology. If you upgrade to the plus ChatGPT 99 bucks a year, should work fine. Rumor says Apple will be charging for the AI full integration. All part of generation one rollout.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It depends on how you define free markets.

I do define a completely free market as where there is no government intervention in the supply and demands for products and services, and transactions between buyers and sellers are voluntary

It’d be free from government intervention. Which seems to be the one you seem most concerned about. That alone doesn‘t make a market truly free.

If I force you at gunpoint to „buy“ something from me, you and I may be free from government intervention - but you’re not free.

People pay big money to get the best seats at a concert, don't they? Is that considered a Monopoly? Are they depriving others from getting these seats? Probably, but they worked hard to pay big money for the best seats.

Money can be inherited or stolen or investmented.
Spending bigly doesn’t mean you worked hard for it.

That’s the point.

Particularly when that money could be spent elsewhere and differently to actually improve your product.
Then again, a monopolist doesn’t need to make the best product it can develop - when they can stunt all their competitors‘ growth in their early stages.

 

[Macaholic868]

Although the court hasn't announced remedies yet, it may be that any Google default-related payment to steer users to Google search would be disallowed.

Agreed but could they go there if market share data was displayed when choosing if Google didn’t pay Apple to display it but perhaps payed Apple a fee for searches originating from Safari in iOS and iPadOS after the fact instead so long as they offered that deal to other device makers?

That might steer people but facts are facts so long as the data came from an independent third party recognized in the industry as being unbiased the court might have a tough time with the argument that giving consumers facts when choosing is a bad thing.

 

[Ethosik]

All are ChatGPT, different tools. Microsoft is offering more tools. Nothing to do with the technology. If you upgrade to the plus ChatGPT 99 bucks a year, should work fine. Rumor says Apple will be charging for the AI full integration. All part of generation one rollout.

The original comment I replied to said ChatGPT. I used ChatGPT, it does not work as well as a search engine. You used Microsoft's example.

I have a paid subscription to ChatGPT. Doesn't mean its perfect and is a replacement for search engines.

 

[tobybrut]

Or it could crash and burn like Apple Maps did.

Most products of this scope tend to have rocky starts because you are only as good as your map data. That takes years to collect. At the beginning, Apple was renting data from various other companies while doing their own mapping process. Years later, Apple Maps today is quite a solid product. Google Maps tracks you wherever you go. You can look on your account page and find where you went two years ago on a specific date. If you can see it on Google’s page, you know very well Google has been using that data. Apple Maps is just as good and has privacy. Google Maps wasn’t all that great when it started. Things with such an expansive scope take time. Apple Maps has had that time now and is really good.

 

[Rafagon]

It's not Apple's responsibility to fix Googles anti-trust problem. I can't see how the court can force Apple to do anything in this case.

But it is. It's forcing Apple not to collect the money it used to from Google for the luxury of being default search engine.

 

[Minghold]

"Kagi" anyone?

Boolean without censorship, or go home.

 

[webkit]

Agreed but could they go there if market share data was displayed when choosing if Google didn’t pay Apple to display it but perhaps payed Apple a fee for searches originating from Safari in iOS and iPadOS after the fact instead so long as they offered that deal to other device makers?

That might steer people but facts are facts so long as the data came from an independent third party recognized in the industry as being unbiased the court might have a tough time with the argument that giving consumers facts when choosing is a bad thing.

We'll just have to wait and see what the court remedies are, plus there will be the appeals process.

I suppose a setup where no search engine is the pre-set default and all choosing to participate pay the same to be listed, including Google, would be possible.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Come on, serious? „Will Apple build a search engine?“

Apple has no datacenters, it has no algorithms and a search engine only for iOS/macOS doesn‘t make any sense.
People will simply continue to use google and that‘s it.

Oh, wait - Apple won‘t get a dime.

‘I’m sorry. I found no restaurant search results for ‘Come on, are you serious?’

 

[Digital Dude]

Apple to make a search engine? 😂

 

[Minghold]

This would make “here is what I found on the web” even worse. 😅

*shrug* ....Apple and Google are both skinsuits worn by data-gathering intelligence entities, so not much would change using one search-engine over the other (i.e., the CIA and NSA get to know what interests you, etc).

 

[garranhado]

SearchGPT can be the next thing, also gain part of Google Search market share. People talk and love ChatGPT.

It’s time to Apple to partner or buy ChatGPT.

 

[leeuk321]

Google search is just terrible now anyway, I'd welcome Apple coming on the scene, and I'd love the idea of Safari working hand-in-hand with it. One thing I'd love is to be able to go in to settings and add sites to an "exclusion list" so that they simply don't appear in search results. The amount of garbage sites which pay Google for higher priority (or simply get there naturally through popularity from the masses) is staggering.

 

[Abazigal]

Paying off Apple to become default isn‘t hard work though.

It does take a lot of hard work to make the $20 billion in order to pay Apple though, and I think that's what a lot of critics don't seem to understand. That Google is able to make a lot of money mainly because they have managed to garner the lion's share of ad revenue in the market (precisely because they are good at what they do), they operate at a scale which allows them to make this money back many times over, and this is money no other search engine in the market can muster.

Microsoft spent years, and sunk countless resources into trying to make Bing work, and Apple probably would't even take it even if Microsoft gave it to Apple for free. Heck, even DDF is just a white-label Bing offering.

What this lawsuit reveals is that defaults do matter (I suspect this is why Google continues to pay Apple even though I do acknowledge their search engine as still being the best in the market), and part of why that matters is because many people simply don't switch away from whatever default settings their phone comes with. But is that a Google problem, or a human nature problem? And if it's the latter, then it's not really Google's business to fix it.

 

[Seamaster]

Problem is people will complain loudly and endlessly about how search as a free service is broken. But they won't pay for a service that works.

 

[Bazza1]

Problem is people will complain loudly and endlessly about how search as a free service is broken. But they won't pay for a service that works.

...and don't be under any illusions, 'free' services by Google - or Meta, Microsoft, Amazon. Or Apple - are anything but.
Internet Faust.

 

[Seamaster]

I'd love is to be able to go in to settings and add sites to an "exclusion list" so that they simply don't appear in search results. The amount of garbage sites which pay Google for higher priority (or simply get there naturally through popularity from the masses) is staggering.

You can do this with Kagi.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It does take a lot of hard work to make the $20 billion in order to pay Apple though, and I think that's what a lot of critics don't seem to understand

It does - but if they‘re working so hard, why Apple to be default - as the largely undisputed market leader commanding a market share between 80 and 99%?

And if it's the latter, then it's not really Google's business to fix it.

Certainly not.

But they need not add fuel to the fire. Given the market share and market power they’ve earned from their hard work - as well as a web browser they’re giving away for free that’s a de facto setter of web standards - this reeks of total suppression of any form of competition. It shows contempt for competition and unwillingness to compete on the service’s merits - by paying sum that no emerging competitor can afford.

And it’s the government’s job to fix that.

 

[Lihp8270]

This makes no sense.

On one hand governments are telling Apple they have to offer competitors space on their devices and not favour their own products.

Then in this case, they are saying Apple should have their own search engine instead of using google