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The PC/Mac market will continue to fall as the "average" user (eg those with no interest in technology at all, but obviously everyone needs to use the internet) just use their phones for everything.

Another factor are longer lifespans of computers.
Imagine a notebook from 2001 used in 2007 - everything was unusable.
Notebooks from 2011 can be used in 2017 for daily tasks like browsing with no issues.

Anything with 4 GB RAM, any Core i CPU and maybe an SSD is still fine for 90% of users.
 
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But they did make it and updated it, just not anymore.
And that is exactly what Steve Jobs referred to quite often: Be very careful what you add, what you offer. Because taking something away is very hard and people will complain much more than if you add never added or offered it in the first place.
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So did HP, Dell and Lenovo's sales. Since they are already selling between two and three times as many units as Apple, their growth increases are nothing to sneeze at.

And the headline is "Remain Steady", always a sure sign of increased demand.
Some people read more than the headline, like the actual numbers.
 
Imagine the Mac sales boost if the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro had received meaningful updates by fall. Imagine if the MacBook Pro was properly upgraded and not reduced to the gimmicky trainwreck we were presented with. Too much to imagine, too little to behold.

I'd like to see the desktops upgraded too. But we got our first 15" Pro at work, and I like it a lot. No laptop I'd rather have than that... Doesn't hurt someone else will be paying for it though!
 
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And in THIS report it states Mac sales have dropped 3.5%..

http://www.techradar.com/news/mac-misery-continues-as-apples-computers-slump-to-half-decade-low

http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/mac-market-share-drops-to-five-year-low/

so who you gonna believe, I would say considering only the overpriced laptops have been updated only it could be true?
Uh, you realize they're talking about two different things? Ones talking about an increase in overall units sold, the other is talking about a decrease in market share. Both can happen at the same time.

Reading comprehension, man.

Also, the article you linked is comparing Q4 of this year to Q1 of last year, an unfair comparison. The study in this article is comparing Q4 of this year to Q4 of last year.

As for the part about Gardner, those were from their October numbers of Q3, which we already knew about. Apple said themself Mac sales were down in October. The new MacBook should keep sales steady.
 
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And that is exactly what Steve Jobs referred to quite often: Be very careful what you add, what you offer. Because taking something away is very hard and people will complain much more than if you add never added or offered it in the first place.
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Some people read more than the headline, like the actual numbers.
Steve Jobs doesn't run Apple anymore so I don't see the relevance in what you are trying to get across. Why would they not make the mini anymore? It sold well and I love mine, personally.
 
I'd like to see the desktops upgraded too. But we got our first 15" Pro at work, and I like it a lot. No laptop I'd rather have than that... Doesn't hurt someone else will be paying for it though!

Of all the colleagues/friends/acquaintances I know using the 2016 MBP, yours must be the first positive input I'm getting.

My new employer offered me the maxed out 2016 15" MBP and I yelled to replace immediately with the 2015 version. Yes, these are first world complaints, but it's also my livelihood, and the 2016 only hinders productivity.

I wonder if the chart also factors in all the returns ;)
 
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Market share increased until 1Q 2012, a quarter after Jobs went away.

Then Apple started to go for profits instead of market share, just like they did when Jobs were kicked out 1985. We know how that ended.

I'll argue that the retina MBP first announced/released in 2012 was probably the most awesome laptop at the time (if ever). It was a joy to use, the benefits were immediately noticeable, made me feel proud to own one. Apple's "best pipeline ever" was probably in 2013, when all Macs were up to date, iPhone 5S was making ripples, OS X and iOS were nicely polished, and the iPad remained an interesting device (without being ludicrously touted as a computer replacement). Since then, with the exception of the iPhone 6 sales blip, it's been a downward spiral in quality and execution, with Apple coasting on reputation and brand alone.
 
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Another factor are longer lifespans of computers.
Imagine a notebook from 2001 used in 2006 - everything was unusable.
Notebooks from 2011 can be used in 2016 for daily tasks like browsing with no issues.

Anything with 4 GB RAM, any Core i CPU and maybe an SSD is still fine for 90% of users.

Nail on the head. I think this is the biggest factor everyone always overlooks. A new Mac purchased within the last ~4 years will be replaced when wear-and-tear kill it, or when it's irreparably damaged. Not because the hardware is too obsolete for modern software to run well enough.
 
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In that case, that separate Mac company, would be run by just as big a bunch of fools as Apple is.
I thought they were fools too, but look at the results, sales are up!
And if it's anything like their phone, they are probably taking a larger share of the profits in pc sales?
I guess Tim looked at the line an said eh, we're still making a pile of $$ off the old line lets keep putting em out!
I don't think they even needed to release the lousy "new" model of MacBook pro, they could
have kept everything the same on the IMAC, mini, the Mac pro and the MacBooks and just put in newer processors, ram, SSD, and video and lowered the price and those would have killed!
 
remember that these figures (72.6 M units) are combined Home/Retail and Enterprise sales. HP, Dell, Lenovo have an strong enterprise presence, while Apple, Asus, (comparatively) are generally very weak in this area - I'm guess mostly from home/retail consumer.

Apple's consumer market is even more narrow, because they only sell $1000+ laptops. These are worldwide numbers, it makes you wonder who can afford these.

Given the price of their products, personally I think 5.4 million units is outstanding (mind you Q4 is the holiday season, consumer sales are expected to be strong).
 
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Just think what Apple could achieve if its Mac business was offloaded onto a separate company that actually cared about the product and updated the Mac Mini, the Mac Pro and the Macbook Air.

I have upgrade money burning a hole in my pocket but I won't be spending it on the Macbook Pro.


I agree. First time I'm in a position to pay cash for a new Apple laptop and I just can't justify it:

* unjustifiably expensive (I paid same price for my 17" years ago)
* soldered on, overpriced SSD drives
* no magsafe
* no SD card reader (I use mine all the time)
* glossy screen with lots of glare
* requires several I/O adapters, or expensive docking solution (extra $$$)
* cheap feeling keyboard although you'd probably get used to it
 
It doesn't matter the purpose of a sale.

One sale is a sale no matter the purpose of use.

Apple largely gave up on the enterprise for its computers a long time ago.

HP, Dell et al are wise to focus on both consumer and business sales.

Eggs not in one basket.

remember that these figures (72.6 M units) are combined Home/Retail and Enterprise sales. HP, Dell, Lenovo have an strong enterprise presence, while Apple, Asus, (comparatively) are generally very weak in this area - I'm guess mostly from home/retail consumer.

Apple's consumer market is even more narrow, because they only sell $1000+ laptops.

Personally I think 5.4 million units is outstanding (mind you Q4 is the holiday season, consumer sales are expected to be strong).
 
I think phones are a contributing factor (and tablets too, to a lesser degree) but my 6-year-old 13" MacBook Pro is still fine for my parents. The vast majority of people buying laptops don't even care what something like "Kaby Lake" is. They don't game. They don't cut 4K video. Phones are all fine and dandy for data consumption, but no one who is creating content to any large degree lives entirely on their phone. (Well, maybe someone but that's another niche group.)

The MacBook itself is some proof of that. My wife loves hers. The processor in it is dog slow compared to the i7 in my machine but virtually nothing she does in her daily routine really notices the difference. If you've got an SSD, at least 4GB of RAM, and a decent dual core processor from like like... Core 2 days, the machine is "good enough" for most people.

I think the only thing that's going to drive machines to that crowd is stuff like 5K. Not because someone like my dad is working with 4K video, but because the clarity is really nice on older (and heck, younger) eyes. That and things like the MacBook. People here can gripe about "lighter and thinner" all they want, but performance is "more than adequate" for most people. The trouble with the "Pro" market is that it's a smaller and smaller percentage of the computing market as a whole. (And "Pro" in this context doesn't mean "professional", it means someone who needs a ridiculous amount of power. Even most professionals simply don't.)

That might change as time goes on because of phones and tablets, but it hasn't yet.

The "Pro" line is also of interest to those of us who game (via Bootcamp or natively) who do care about having more performance than Web surfing. Some of us either prefer Mac OS for a working environment, are tethered to the ecosystem, or have work buying equipment for us (or all three). Yes yes I'm familiar with "if you game don't buy a MAC," but some of us do fit that category. We may be a niche group too, but many of us follow hardware in ways that don't fit the "common" usage you guys are describing.

Incidentally, in relation to Danny's comment about common usage it depends on your context. At the university I work at everyone's obviously always using laptops. Probably an even mix of Macs and PCs which speaks well of Macs. I'm transitioning between an iMac and MBP during the day routinely.

Anyway, the comment about 5K driving new/niche groups to laptops is relevant to what I was saying about gamers. Those of us willing to accept the trade offs of gaming on Macs (again, me through Bootcamp), would look forward to better GPU solutions because if they can drive 5K, we can turn down our resolution and get a passable experience gaming.

(Ready to get shredded for the sin of mentioning gaming and Macs in same sentence.)
 
Imagine the Mac sales boost if the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro had received meaningful updates by fall. Imagine if the MacBook Pro was properly upgraded and not reduced to the gimmicky trainwreck we were presented with. Too much to imagine, too little to behold.

Apple are deliberatly sabotaging Mac sales by not updating their hardware.
 
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The PC/Mac market will continue to fall as the "average" user (eg those with no interest in technology at all, but obviously everyone needs to use the internet) just use their phones for everything. A large majority of people I know on Twitter only every use their phone for all their computing needs, they have a laptop which is opened once every couple of months - they're not even on tablets, just phones.

It's alien to me, someone who spends 10+ ours a day on a Mac and rarely uses my phone for anything but thats what "the man in the street" is doing.

9 out of 10 "men in the street" that I know are just like you - use a "real" computer most of the time and a phone the rest. It's not quite at the point where I can just go all-iPhone for everything.
 
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I'm gonna be a part of the Dell chart soon, still preparing myself to the switch! :D
Wait for the new XPS 15 Kaby Lake. Not out yet, but will be soon and it looks sweet. :)
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My Condolences - Dell has always made garbage computers and their new ones are no exception.


Apparently you are the one that buys the $199 Dell models. You apparently haven't bought any Dell computers in the past few years, so you really shouldn't give an opinion about something you know nothing about. The last few years the Dell XPS line has been award winning. I have sold all my clients Dell portables and desktops for over 10 years (exclusively) and they have been very, very reliable.

My condolences to you for either making poor choices or having extremely bad luck.
 
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