Worldwide Mac Sales Up Slightly as PC Market Continues to Decline in Q1 2017

[RamGuy]

Imagine what they could do if they'd release a decent laptop with modern hardware and ports.

They already have... People seem to ignore the simple fact that KabyLake is a Skylake Refresh. The performance differences are tiny. The architecture is identical, the only difference is the move from Intel's 14nm process into their slightly improved "14nm+" process. This allows Intel to push the frequencies about 100-200MHz higher with about the same power consumption and TDP. There is no added IPC or higher efficiency per clock due to the architecture of the CPU being the exact same as Skylake.

So the difference in performance is almost non-existent. Yet people behave like the new MacBook Pro's hardware is lagging far behind. Which it clearly doesn't, at least not in-terms of performance. All you loose is bragging rights as you can't say "look at me, I got Kaby Lake!".

And things like the display is some of the best on the market, if not the best period. And it's one of relative few systems offering Thuderbolt-3 over USB-C connection etc..

 

[lowendlinux]

They already have... People seem to ignore the simple fact that KabyLake is a Skylake Refresh. The performance differences are tiny. The architecture is identical, the only difference is the move from Intel's 14nm process into their slightly improved "14nm+" process. This allows Intel to push the frequencies about 100-200MHz higher with about the same power consumption and TDP. There is no added IPC or higher efficiency per clock due to the architecture of the CPU being the exact same as Skylake.

So the difference in performance is almost non-existent. Yet people behave like the new MacBook Pro's hardware is lagging far behind. Which it clearly doesn't, at least not in-terms of performance. All you loose is bragging rights as you can't say "look at me, I got Kaby Lake!".

And things like the display is some of the best on the market, if not the best period. And it's one of relative few systems offering Thuderbolt-3 over USB-C connection etc..

The problem is that Apple markets it's premium devices and premium in tech is the newest and best of everything and that's not what Apple delivered. No there isn't much performance difference between Kaby and Skylake but when people spend 4k on a computer they want the newest even if the older is more than adequate.

Kaby does have things like native USB 3.1 vs 3.0 for Skylake, HVEC en/decode @ 10bit this is absent in Skylake, and VP9 decode which is absent in Skylake. On the Desktop Kaby is meh in a portable it is an improvement.

 

[Marx55]

Apple Market share could be twice as large if they fixed issues like releasing new Macs every year (as with iOS devices and as Apple did in the past with Macs). Likewise, bringing Target Display Mode to all iMac computers and upgradable components, with standard connectors, mostly for RAM and SSD, but also for microprocessor and GPU. And last but not least, not charging 2 to 3 times more for the very same upgrade like RAM or SSD as compared to retailers like Amazon.

 

[Bacillus]

I don't know if any of you haters even used the new MBP with touchbar?

It's wonderful, i just wish they port it to an external keyboard.

It's much more useful than the stupid wheel on the surface (which basically has the same functionality, except it takes over space on your screen and you need to carry it around and charge it.)

I know it is difficult.
But try to discern haters (that would not return here) from fundamentally disappointed lovers (who have that last sparkle of hope)
Play nice to them (and your TouchBar...)

 

[JGRE]

Haha, I love that. However, I don't see Apple do a 180°
Their iWork suite is for yard sales and ms office for mac is crippled.

Everyone knows you need at least ms office for windows when you work in a company that wants to do some analysis.

My apologies if this sounds harsh, but I'm frustrated because finance people and analysts aren't considered pro apparently, as we need to resort to parallels and MS office windows to get something done. Even their own corporate dept. uses Parallels and MS office windows. Talking about a joke whenever I see pro and ms office for mac/ios on an advertisement.

Makes you wonder why MSO is still so different on macOS compared to Windows. Is MS screwing the macOS user?

 

[StevieD100]

It's interesting to see how different the US and worldwide sales differ. If you exclude the US, the rest of the world sales would be below 5%. And comparing the figures between the 2 tables, the US represents over one third of all Mac sales.

So Apple's focus should really be on the international market.

Agreed. Hence the adverts on UK TV for Currys-PcWord that are selling the MacBook Pro. Quite why anyone in their right mind would want to buy anything from CPW is beyond me but at least there is something made by Apple (sorry sold with the apple name on it) that is being advertised on TV.

 

[teme]

Mac market share hasn't really changed that much in last 5-6 years, even though iPhone and iPad have been hugely popular. The Mac growth have been minimal, it could have been so much better than that. I guess Apple has lost its best opportunity window to gain Mac market share.

 

[maflynn]

Wow, what happened to Asus, they got pummeled this past quarter. Nearly everyone else grew (except for Acer).

Good news for Apple, isn't this the second quarter that they grew and didn't shrink?

 

[meaning-matters]

If you'd plot a line through that Apple U.S. Market Share graph, I think it would show stabilisation around 2015 and light decline in 2017.

Even more worrying/interesting is that the seasonal sales peak that was there every year between 2006 and 2016, is gone in 2017.

 

[kazmac]

There is a non Touch Bar Retina MacBook Pro. It was released at the same time as the Touch Bar models - slightly earlier in fact. The deep discounts retailers have offered on it also lead me to believe it does not perform as well commercially as its Touch Bar-equipped brethren.

15" model - not yet.

 

[DoctorKrabs]

These numbers are always used to make false conclusions about PCs. The only PCs being sold as "PCs" are pre-built, and mostly notebooks. Nobody's buying a pre-built Windows desktop anymore, but people are buying parts to build their own desktops more and more. The growth of PC gaming is probably greater than Macs.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/pc-gaming-hardware-sales-growing-breaks-record/

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

As overall PC demand decreases with the introduction of more powerful mobile devices, we should see PC vendors focusing more on the Pro market.

Shouldn't we?!?!

 

[Stella]

Engadget has a slightly more positive article - 5 year slump coming to an end:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/11/pc-shipments-may-have-increased/
[doublepost=1492003331][/doublepost]Absolutely. Build your own PC is just better value and not that difficult.

The increasing popularity in gaming Pcs has been noticed in increased sales figures for the PC market.

These numbers are always used to make false conclusions about PCs. The only PCs being sold as "PCs" are pre-built, and mostly notebooks. Nobody's buying a pre-built Windows desktop anymore, but people are buying parts to build their own desktops more and more. The growth of PC gaming is probably greater than Macs.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/pc-gaming-hardware-sales-growing-breaks-record/

[doublepost=1492003764][/doublepost]The main performance gains in KabyLake is in the iGPU, which is fairly good - and great for laptops, and cheap desktop machines.

If your not using an iGPU, then you won't see much benefit - especially when using dGPU with a desktop machine.

Regarding MacBook Pro performance - how are you measuring performance? Sure, raw CPU speed, i/o, performance is fine. OTOH - Graphics Performance on a MBP is utter garbage. Those AMD GPUs are cheap and low entry.

They already have... People seem to ignore the simple fact that KabyLake is a Skylake Refresh. The performance differences are tiny. The architecture is identical, the only difference is the move from Intel's 14nm process into their slightly improved "14nm+" process. This allows Intel to push the frequencies about 100-200MHz higher with about the same power consumption and TDP. There is no added IPC or higher efficiency per clock due to the architecture of the CPU being the exact same as Skylake.

So the difference in performance is almost non-existent. Yet people behave like the new MacBook Pro's hardware is lagging far behind. Which it clearly doesn't, at least not in-terms of performance. All you loose is bragging rights as you can't say "look at me, I got Kaby Lake!".

And things like the display is some of the best on the market, if not the best period. And it's one of relative few systems offering Thuderbolt-3 over USB-C connection etc..

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Point me to a laptop that has 4 thunderbolt 3 ports with 2 of them being 40gbps.

No one else would make the mistake of exclusively using 4 TB3 ports and nothing else. And 40Gbps? Who and what uses that bandwidth? Certainly nothing your average user would plug in. I just want to plug in a flash drive that I use everyday without having to hunt for an adapter to make it fit.

 

[belvdr]

The Telegraph is reporting that IDC figures state PC YoY sales are up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/04/12/pc-sales-grow-first-time-five-years/

Take this with the Gartner data and you can conclude it's relatively flat.

 

[darcyf]

There is no port more modern than USB-C / Thunderbolt 3...

"... with modern hardware. And ports."

Make sense now?

 

[Manatlt]

PC market in decline. But let's ignore HP, Lenovo and Dell right? With HP having better growth than everyone this past year?

 

[gnasher729]

It's important to note that data from Gartner and IDC is preliminary and that the numbers can shift, sometimes dramatically and sometimes less so. Last year, for example, Gartner estimated Mac shipments of 4.6 million in the first quarter of 2016, but the actual number was just over 4 million.

According to slashdot.org, Gartner counts tablets running Windows, but doesn't count Chromebooks. IDC counts Chromebooks, but not tablets running Windows, not even laptops with detachable screens. And neither counts iPads or Android tablets (or Apple's numbers would be hugely higher and Samsung would probable be somewhere in that list).

 

[Feenician]

PC market in decline. But let's ignore HP, Lenovo and Dell right?

No-one's ignoring them. They're right there in the figures. They key word is "market".

 

[MrX8503]

No one else would make the mistake of exclusively using 4 TB3 ports and nothing else. And 40Gbps? Who and what uses that bandwidth? Certainly nothing your average user would plug in. I just want to plug in a flash drive that I use everyday without having to hunt for an adapter to make it fit.

Pros that use 2x LG 5K monitors.

Funny how you mention "average" users. I thought all the hate was towards this machine not being pro and was more built for average people.

 

[Carnegie]

Those "actual customers" being Apple stores and retail partners. As I said, Apple does some accounting sleight-of-hand wherein their numbers are what's called "Sell in" numbers meaning that once they get to the stores (and not you or I) Apple considers them as "sold" even though they really aren't.

https://gigaom.com/2013/05/09/what-apple-really-means-when-it-says-it-has-sold-a-product/

How is it accounting sleight-of-hand?

Apple recognizes revenue (and thus counts sales) in accordance with standard accounting principles. In broad strokes it's much the same way most companies (at least those that produce consumer products) account for revenue or total sales. In some cases unit numbers are referred to as shipments, in others they are referred to as sales, but those terms are referring to the same thing in this context. Those sell-in numbers are what are generally reported, assuming a company even reports unit numbers. Even if they don't, generally speaking, it is still that sell-in which is reflected in their reported revenues or sales totals.

Apple is more transparent than most on this front. For one thing, it actually reports unit numbers for its main product categories. For another, with regard to iPhones and iPads at least, they effectively also give us sell-through numbers in addition to the standard sell-in numbers. That's because they tell us for each quarter what the change in channel inventory was, so we can easily calculate (even if they don't themselves specify) what the sell-through (i.e. what was sold to consumers) was.

At any rate, what gets counted as a sale for financial reporting purposes for a company like Apple is - at least in broad strokes - fairly well established. What that means when it comes to sales to third-party retailers is somewhat different than what it means when it comes to direct sales to consumers. But that's largely the same for all similar companies. And the principles underlying what gets counted (and when) are the same.

Also, sales made through Apple's own retail channels - to include through Apple's own stores - generally aren't counted until the consumer gets the product. Sales made to its retail partners are generally counted when products are shipped to those partners rather than when consumers buy those products. But the accounting for products sold through Apple's own stores (and through its website) is different.

 

[MrX8503]

Oh, I see, you misunderstood my definition of modern.

adjective - relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.

When I go to a computer store or did so in the recent past I don't/didn't see thunderbolt 3 ports.

I tried googling https://www.google.ca/#q=modern+computer+ports+2017 "modern computer ports 2017" and I certainly don't see any of those on the laptop you're talking about.

I think you're the one that doesn't understand. TB3 is recent and exists today. You're having a hard time finding them because it's cutting edge.

The problem is that Apple markets it's premium devices and premium in tech is the newest and best of everything and that's not what Apple delivered. No there isn't much performance difference between Kaby and Skylake but when people spend 4k on a computer they want the newest even if the older is more than adequate.

Kaby does have things like native USB 3.1 vs 3.0 for Skylake, HVEC en/decode @ 10bit this is absent in Skylake, and VP9 decode which is absent in Skylake. On the Desktop Kaby is meh in a portable it is an improvement.

But the GPU on skylake is much more powerful, which is required to drive a 5K monitor.

Comparing MBP13 vs Dell XPS 13
http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...s-Intel-HD-5500-Mobile-095-GHz/m37386vsm16570

The MBP13's GPU is 75% faster.

 

[Carnegie]

Apple's numbers are actual sales to actual customers. All PC vendors lump together sales to actual customers via their own sales channels as well as shipments of product to retails, resellers, wholesalers and others that they may or may not have received full payment for (Net terms) and that product that is not sold on to actual customers can be returned back to the vendor from all those channels.

So Apple's numbers are "hard" while PC sales are "soft".

That's not the case with a large portion of Apple's sales. Apple records sales in much the same way that others do. It is, as I referred to it in the previous post, the sell-in - that includes products sold into the channel, e.g. to third-party retailers. There are, for instance, around 20 million iPhones in the channel right now. Those have been counted (as they are supposed to be assuming certain conditions are met) as sales by Apple.

That said, there are reasons to believe that Apple's reported sell-in more closely tracks with its sell-through than is the case for some others. For one thing, in addition to giving us sell-in numbers it effectively gives us sell-through numbers for iPhones and iPads. For another, a significant portion of Apple's consumer sales (around a quarter of them) go through its own channels. Those sales generally aren't counted until the consumer takes delivery. Additionally, Apple's products tend not to pile up on retailers' shelves, so to speak. What they sell to retailers tends to get sold to consumers within a reasonable amount of time. Sometimes they have a (relatively) small channel build, other times they have a (relatively) small channel draw down. But products tend to move fairly well through the channel. Whether there's 10 million or 20 million iPhones in the channel at a given point in time doesn't really matter (in this context), what matters is how much the inventory in the channel changes.

 

[DevNull0]

I think you're the one that doesn't understand. TB3 is recent and exists today. You're having a hard time finding them because it's cutting edge.

Hard to find doesn't mean cutting edge. TB1 and TB2 devices were hard to find. Firewire 400 and 800 devices were hard to find. ADB devices were hard to find.

And even if TB3 is cutting edge, only supporting it is a stupid move.

NOTHING in current mac products is cutting edge and hasn't been for years. Why would their obscure little port be the one exception?

 

[Feenician]

Hard to find doesn't mean cutting edge. TB1 and TB2 devices were hard to find. Firewire 400 and 800 devices were hard to find. ADB devices were hard to find.

And even if TB3 is cutting edge, only supporting it is a stupid move.

NOTHING in current mac products is cutting edge and hasn't been for years. Why would their obscure little port be the one exception?

Apple don't "only" support it. Both USB and Thunderbolt protocols are supported over the USB C presentation. Supporting Thunderbolt over the USB C connector adds but takes nothing away.