Wow. Apple Maps is a disaster.

[shandyman]

iOS 6 Beta is not a showcase. Devs are under NDA. It's a test, to find and squash bugs. Again, if you're a developer, you understand the value of being feature complete and working with a copy or your production data during the last Q&A phase before mass deployment : limited datasets used during active development might not be able to trigger all conditions that might result in unwanted behavior.

Thus there is no reason to believe this isn't actually Apple's live map data or at least a complete copy of it. Otherwise, the beta has no real value.

You mostly support the debate against yourself here. The beta is for Devs to test their apps and make use of the new APIs, not to showcase the new iOS, as you rightly say. Now how does an old dataset with wrongly labeled oceans affect apps that devs are testing, like Facebook or what not? It doesn't, therefore the beta does not necessarily need to have the latest dataset...or at least apple obviously has reason to think so. You still haven't given a reasonable counter to my point that apple have many more cities in 3D from C3 that's currently not enabled, so again, we do know that apple is holding stuff back from the beta.

 

[irnchriz]

This may be the tipping point for me to turn to android and try out the SIII for a little bit. I am someone who drives for a living and I heavily use my maps app. Apples new maps may be accurate and good for people who live in the hubs of America (LA, SF, Chicago, NYC, Seattle, etc) and only drive the same route from home to work everyday and once and awhile to the store, but from what I've seen Apples solution looks really bad in rural or small town areas. The screenshots of European areas look even worse. It looks like stuff is missing that can not simply be thrown in before the full release of ios6. Google Maps appears to be way ahead, especially on android. Not to mention after Googles event a week before WWDC they showed off everything Apple did, along with offline viewing coming to Google Maps. That is huge. Oh well, it will be nice to try a different phone. iOS is getting stale

I would suggest that you are trolling hard here. If you rely on mapping for navigation in cities then you would have already purchased a bespoke application for this purpose such as Tom Tom or co-pilot etc.

These dedicated applications are far superior than any turn by turn service provided by google or apple and do not rely on downloading content.

You really do get what you pay for.

 

[KnightWRX]

While I agree with just about everything you said, Apple does have this lovely gem in the current iOS6 release notes:

"Map data will continue to evolve—only a limited amount of high resolution satellite imagery is currently available."
​

That's not a gem, that's frankly how every mapping solution is out there. The data evolves outside of the actual code release. That sentence does not indicate in any way that Apple currently has better mapping data.

Google has the same language in their Google Maps documentation. It just means that maps will evolve. At some point. Some time. Maybe.

No one is saying that Apple's data won't get better, just that this is it. This is what they currently have in June 2012. There is no big surprise switch to flip to make it all better. It'll evolve slowly but surely, like other mapping services have over the years.

----------

I would suggest that you are trolling hard here. If you rely on mapping for navigation in cities then you would have already purchased a bespoke application for this purpose such as Tom Tom or co-pilot etc.

I rely on mapping for navigation in cities and I disagree with your statement. I don't need it on constantly. Heck, I'm the kind of guy who looks at a map once, 5 minutes before leaving, and have no need to further look at it or even use turn-by-turn.

I have a pretty good sense of orientation. Not everyone needs a full blown GPS. I wouldn't even know what to do with it if I had one.

 

[shandyman]

That's not a gem, that's frankly how every mapping solution is out there. The data evolves outside of the actual code release. That sentence does not indicate in any way that Apple currently has better mapping data.

But as I have pointed out, Apple does have better mapping data, or at least some data that's not in the beta. The other cities from C3. You seem to ignore that fact.....

 

[Frankied22]

Apparently everyone who disagrees with Apple on this forum, even if its just raising concerns, is trolling. Its hilarious. I have used an iPhone for years, ipads since its release, and multiple Macs. I got nothing against Apple and I like their products. But that's got nothing to do with my opinion that I would not be surprised if Apples maps are indeed inferior to googles, even at final release.

 

[Parise]

Apparently everyone who disagrees with Apple on this forum, even if its just raising concerns, is trolling. Its hilarious. I have used an iPhone for years, ipads since its release, and multiple Macs. I got nothing against Apple and I like their products. But that's got nothing to do with my opinion that I would not be surprised if Apples maps are indeed inferior to googles, even at final release.

Yeah, thats the nature of the beast unfortunately.... The forum is filled with too many people like this:

Lets see...
1. No Public Transportation Data: Only uppity in the NY use this - rest of the country use cars. How many time did you actually use public transportation option in iOS maps?
2. Street view: This is one of the biggest hyped product of google maps. Most of the times, street view is barely usable. Until last year, photos on it were so over exposed that you could barely see anything other than road.
3. turn by turn doesn't work on old iPhone: iPhones never had turn by turn to begin with so it is a moot point. iPhone 4 users aren't losing any functionality. Most of them bough iPhone 4 knowing there was no built in turn by turn navigation and it isn't changing. Most will upgrade to "the new iPhone" in October anyways as their contracts expire by then.
4. new maps have less information: New maps don't have less information, everything is just not displayed at a very high level. This actually is a good thing. Maps look less cluttered than google maps. The real problem with google displaying all street names at a high level is that users can hardly discern major streets from minor ones. So many times, I have taken detours to avoid traffic from a major street only to find that the minor ones prominently displayed by google maps for android are only 2 lanes and much slower in DC area.

 

[dave420]

No transit directions makes it a disaster to me. I use that feature most and losing that will be rough. And for my city, there is no app store app that replaces the functionality. Losing transit directions is a major step backwards.

Luckily you don't need anything from the App store to use google maps. Just open Safari and go to maps.google.com to get transit directions.

 

[applefanDrew]

To all those confused: 'beta' in the software development world means that a piece of software is feature-complete and no functionality can be added. It is only a time for bug-fixing. Google presented the idea of 'beta' to mean a 'preview', but that's incorrect. Apple generally follows the traditional view of beta -- they are not going to be dramatically changing anything about iOS6 at this point.

These simple mapping bugs like improperly-positioned labels will be fixed by release, but the errors in the street pathing will not. Not anytime soon, anyway. As others have said, these are cartographic errors with the mapping data. There will also be no Street View, and no walking or metro directions.

I always assumed any mapping solution Apple came out with would have to be at least as good as Google's. Because people don't care about Apple and Google's turf war; they just want a really great mapping solution. Apple has had three years and $100B to make it happen, and somehow they've gone into the weeds. It's baffling.

And unless Google has given up on Android as a platform leader, I doubt we will see a fully-functional Google Maps on iOS6. Why would they want to give iPhone customers a reason to stick with Apple?

B/c they make more money from iPhone than android phones.

 

[WordMasterRice]

But as I have pointed out, Apple does have better mapping data, or at least some data that's not in the beta. The other cities from C3. You seem to ignore that fact.....

You have pointed out that you think that for some reason they haven't included everything, but you haven't presented a single fact.

 

[praktical]

Apple Maps

Only time will tell how this all works out for the iOS release

 

[lordofthereef]

Apparently you don't understand what a beta is. If you are a real developer you would surely understand that its not perfect yet.

Hey. We've had Siri in beta for nearly 8 months (with no indication in any advertising that it is in beta stages). If they decide to throw a beta at us once again with a new hardware launch I certainly want nothing to do with it.

----------

Luckily you don't need anything from the App store to use google maps. Just open Safari and go to maps.google.com to get transit directions.

Unfortunately that is one more inconvenience. Those that use transit mainly now have yet ANOTHER app that cannot be deleted to clutter their homescreen and have to add another link to their bookmarks. I agree it is a relatively minor inconvenience, but it's certainly a step back. Here's to hoping Google puts a full fledged navigation/maps app on the appstore (or Apple gets their ish together).

 

[Primejimbo]

This may be the tipping point for me to turn to android and try out the SIII for a little bit. I am someone who drives for a living and I heavily use my maps app. Apples new maps may be accurate and good for people who live in the hubs of America (LA, SF, Chicago, NYC, Seattle, etc) and only drive the same route from home to work everyday and once and awhile to the store, but from what I've seen Apples solution looks really bad in rural or small town areas. The screenshots of European areas look even worse. It looks like stuff is missing that can not simply be thrown in before the full release of ios6. Google Maps appears to be way ahead, especially on android. Not to mention after Googles event a week before WWDC they showed off everything Apple did, along with offline viewing coming to Google Maps. That is huge. Oh well, it will be nice to try a different phone. iOS is getting stale

If you really drive for a living then you know you can't rely on just 1 map program 100% of the time. I also drive for a living and I use at least 3 because 1 just isn't enough.

 

[lordofthereef]

If you really drive for a living then you know you can't rely on just 1 map program 100% of the time. I also drive for a living and I use at least 3 because 1 just isn't enough.

I'd think that this would depend entirely on where you drive and how far. For those staying in a specific city, it is entirely possible a single app would be sufficient, is it not?

 

[marksman]

They're not going to catch up to Googles detail of the vast majority of the world in a few months. I don't expect any major changes from what we see currently and what we will see at release.

Your assumption is they are beta testing basic implementation and functionality with their most complete dataset. That is a big assumption.

----------

This This This This and This again.

People who are shouting about it being a beta need to look up what a beta actually is.

You go first and then tell the guy you are replying to...

Did they say they were beta testing the data set or the maps functionality. As far as I can tell the maps application is being tested. Griping about the dataset without knowing anything about it seems premature and certainly not someone with experience in beta testing would do.

If they were beta testing the data set and not the application you might have a point.

----------

I agree - the application itself seems pretty solid and I've had no problems with other applications using maps data.

I can see no reason to beta test an application using old vectors and satellite imagery yet I really hope they are doing...

Probably because people working on the application are not the same people working on the data and it might be unnecessary or not yet ready for on the fly updating.

To beta test the functionality of the app why would they need the most current dataset? It just now got realeased to developers. Data precision is not a key factor at this time for what they are actually trying to do.

----------

Finally someone who knows what they're talking a out. People shouting beta need to releasize something like maps can't be completely overhauled in a few months. It's not safari, or mail, or notes. There is way more involved. Sure, they could tweak color schemes or some label. Maybe they will tweak turn by turn. But the actual map data is what it is, and it's no google maps. That's plain to see. Apple has a long way to go in my opinion.

Sure we can all hope that google releases an iOS google maps, but I'm not holding my breath. Google usually takes quit awhile to release iOS apps, and even then the android counterpart has better features. I look at it like this, if Google is going to release the iOS equivalent of maps on android, why didn't they just add what was missing in the last two and half years. Apples stock google maps rarely got updated at all, and was missing a lot. You're going to tell me that all this time google wanted to bring it up to par but Apple wouldn't let them because they were secretly working on their own mapping solution? I don't think so.

People yelling at people who say beta don't understand that the most up to date dataset is not necessary for them to beta maps with developers. I know you guys want to act like you know how this stuff gets done but when you think apple has to have their most up to date dataset at the beginnnng of beta1 is just silly.

Maybe the data won't change but you want to bet on it? The maps application is in beta test not the map data. The map data will be updated forever.

----------

To all those confused: 'beta' in the software development world means that a piece of software is feature-complete and no functionality can be added. It is only a time for bug-fixing. Google presented the idea of 'beta' to mean a 'preview', but that's incorrect. Apple generally follows the traditional view of beta -- they are not going to be dramatically changing anything about iOS6 at this point.

These simple mapping bugs like improperly-positioned labels will be fixed by release, but the errors in the street pathing will not. Not anytime soon, anyway. As others have said, these are cartographic errors with the mapping data. There will also be no Street View, and no walking or metro directions.

I always assumed any mapping solution Apple came out with would have to be at least as good as Google's. Because people don't care about Apple and Google's turf war; they just want a really great mapping solution. Apple has had three years and $100B to make it happen, and somehow they've gone into the weeds. It's baffling.

And unless Google has given up on Android as a platform leader, I doubt we will see a fully-functional Google Maps on iOS6. Why would they want to give iPhone customers a reason to stick with Apple?

Do you just not understand the data is seperate from the application?

 

[shandyman]

You have pointed out that you think that for some reason they haven't included everything, but you haven't presented a single fact.

Yes I have. I've said again and again that there's more cities in 3D than what's in the beta. c3 mapped more than what we are seeing. Such as Boston and NYC. That alone is proof that there is more to be enabled. Those were in C3's demos over a year ago.......

Here's proof that other places have been mapped by c3, who apple bought....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmunh6NIQI

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mlelVaxctI0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWnpZB_s0g

Oh and here's an article which lists the 20 cities that C3 had done, as of April 2011. As stated Apple bought C3, therefore all this data is there ready to be used...

 

[marksman]

I live relatively in the sticks in Berkshire, my estate is about 8 years old, they finished building it about 6 years old. Google Maps shows the estate only 1/4 built. Apple's maps shows the complete estate built and even the new coloured mini roundabouts that were remade about 4 months back. So here, Apple wins. most of my area looks better on apple's satellite maps than googles.

It's going to take time for Apple's maps to be perfect, but Google's did too, the only difference was that they had no real competition. street view took years to be any good. people just have no patience.

Also it could be that whilst iOS 6 is in beta, we're stuck with a limited version of maps and the full force will be flicked on when we hit launch or GM. not necessarily perfect, but part the way there, with Apple making headway on improving. Simply, this can only get better from here on out. who knows, in a year, there could be 3D for most the world and people will be saying how amazing it went from limited to decent.

As for the non-satellite maps, they definitely could do with improving with the standard for blue for motorways, etc, i would hope that would change soon

People don't understand that the mapping data requires servers to serve it up and this is something apple is also testing out and will likely expand to meet actual launch demand.

What is funny is none of these complaints are from the point of view of a developer so I am not really sure what to make of it.

I am pretty sure apple never said "could all you non developers sign up for developer beta to complain about things that have nothing to do with being a developer?"

 

[Primejimbo]

I'd think that this would depend entirely on where you drive and how far. For those staying in a specific city, it is entirely possible a single app would be sufficient, is it not?

not even close. My actual GPS didn't find an address yesterday and my TomTom app found it. At lease once a day I use more than 1 map program to find an address. None of them are 100% at all or even close.
Funny... the "awesome" Google map didn't find that address either yesterday come to think of it...

 

[FlatlinerG]

Beta doesn't even begin to describe these maps. If they're going to launch in the Autumn (and we're almost at midsummer now) then they should be data complete. All digitisation (cartography) rendered in final form, and all imagery uploaded.

The First Day of Summer (Summer Solstice) is on Wednesday, June 20, 2012. We are not almost at midsummer...We're still in spring.

 

[marksman]

Apple is using OSM, TomTom and Microsoft. OSM provides the mapping, TomTom provides maps data, OSM provides the maps and Microsoft provides the imagery.

For the beta, they probably wouldn't be using "test" data, in fact, it'd be foolish for them to use test data, given the nature. Whilst it could be true that they are using out-dated data, this doesn't make sense either.

The fact of the matter is, they are likely to be using a dataset that's not from that long ago, and it is missing a lot and lacking in things. IMO, Google Maps still provides a better comprehensive service at this time.

Foolish how? Someone else pointed out they have to serve up the data. Having a smaller data set allows them to continue to work on the back end while also working on the app. Why do you think the most current and total dataset needs to be served up in developer beta?

If it was only developers accessing it maybe so but you don't get much benefit from the application development. The data is the data. They are simply working on the front end.

 

[Cybbe]

The First Day of Summer (Summer Solstice) is on Wednesday, June 20, 2012. We are not almost at midsummer...We're still in spring.

Are you delusional?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer

 

[heliox8614]

No I'm not trolling. Maps are really easy to read and follow. I think a 3D flyover would be more difficult to navigate with unless you were walking down those streets at the time.

Clearly 3D flyovers could cause confusion when the streets you're looking at have changed a lot in appearance since those pictures were taken. Such changes wouldn't affect a street map.

When I'm walking around in an unfamiliar place I look for signs with road names on, which are clearly labelled on most 2D maps.

Let me put it another way: I've never been navigating using a map and thought to myself, "you know what, this would be a lot easier if the map was in 3D."

I might be mistaken, but I think his scenario is walking and using the map identify which building he is looking for, and your scenario is driving.
I can see the benefit of the 3D data in his scenario, and also agree that it wouldn't be as useful in yours.

 

[Saladinos]

No I'm not asking for the software to be to release standard, but the data damn well should be. Worldwide coverage is no mean feat to achieve but the improvements to the digitisation that are desperately required cannot be quickly achieved.

I agree that the symbology and rendering can be tweaked (and I'm sure they will) - For example in the UK and Europe the road colours need tweaking to give them the international standard. (Blue - Motorways, Green - Trunk Routes, Red - Other primary routes, yellow/white - other roads. And perhaps new imagery can be sourced and updated. Those are software tweaks (and relatively easy data updates)

However my issue is with the quality of digitisation of the roads themselves. Apple made a boast about having done vector based maps, and that is a good thing because rasterised maps will pixelate as you zoom in, but unless those vectored maps are digitised accurately, they look amateur. That isn't a software issue, it's a data quality issue, and naff all to do with the software being in Beta.

Fixing the errors in digitisation will take years. In the mean time, the competition will continue to pull ahead, no matter how good the front end or the back end infrastructure is.

I disagree. The map data is not set in stone - its a living document basically by definition (the road network changes pret frequently)

The map rendering definitely needs work. There were some great blog posts about the readability of Google Maps on 41latitude. It's down now, but here's an archived copy of one great such post (very informative on this topic): http://web.archive.org/web/20110208...post/2072504768/google-maps-label-readability

Hybrid mode is awfully buggy right now. Lots of drawing artefacts and a pretty ugly colour scheme (or lack thereof). No doubt that will be fixed by release, so let's forget about that for now.

What exactly do you mean by poor digitisation, and do you have any examples? I don't think it has anything to do with the fact the maps are now vectors - sometimes the data is just poor. No doubt that will improve.

I don't see any reason why Apple can't stay competitive here. Their data needs to catch up with the quality of googles (actually, you'd be surprised how many people do actually report map corrections), but in terms of features and quality of routing and traffic information, etc, I think they can compete very well.

 

[ProphetX]

They should really ban some people from using BETA software...they should start with the OP.

You act like Apple can't update the maps before GM is released.

My thoughts exactly. Theres another thread just like this from a native new yorker crying about how he depends on google maps.

I can't for the life of me figure out as to why he's even running a beta 1 as his primary. Especially if he depends on his iphone for commuting purposes.

 

[ct2k7]

Foolish how? Someone else pointed out they have to serve up the data. Having a smaller data set allows them to continue to work on the back end while also working on the app. Why do you think the most current and total dataset needs to be served up in developer beta?

If it was only developers accessing it maybe so but you don't get much benefit from the application development. The data is the data. They are simply working on the front end.

Do you work in software development? Do you know how risky it is, not to use real, updated data so late in the development cycle?

Using updated or old data can break an application / product. It could cause a lot of other problems.

 

[heliox8614]

Are you delusional?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer

Midsummer as you quoted appears to be an event in Europe, not an actual seasonal milestone. The first day of Summer is June 20, 2012.
At least it is in America, using the calendar the Apple likely uses.