Wow. Apple Maps is a disaster.

[KeanosMagicHat]

The bottom line is that with Google's Maps Apple would never be allowed to have Turn By Turn on the iPhone.

They decided that offering turn by turn NOW was more important than having a polished and finished Maps app NOW.

In a year we can hope that nobody will even talk about this anymore (because it's been fixed).

Google would have allowed them anything if they'd been prepared to pay for it. The decision to release a quarter-baked product now was about perceived competition and corporate profits, pure & simple.

Unfortunately, the point about offering turn by turn now as a more important feature, makes no sense. Yes the turn by turn interface itself is fairly slick (although I have a lag which causes me to miss turns) but a few posts back someone gave a real-world example as to why if the map data is inaccurate, it's useless.

He looked up a restaurant in Yelp (one that was actually there in the first place - lack of POI being another problem) and the address was correct, however, when he clicked into Maps it moved the restaurant to a different area altogether.

Now, being aware of the issues at the moment, he noticed this, but others may blindly trust the information (especially if the restaurant is in the town they don't know too well) and head off in completely the wrong direction.

Mapping and navigation is all about trust that the information you're presented with is correct, how can you trust an application like this one?

 

[areyes163]

I normally don't like to complain on software but I tried to use the maps to navigate to work. And unless I got fired and they moved my precinct and did not tell me. Maps would have taken me to a completely different area other then where I was supposed to go. If I didn't know where I worked I would have been lost. Put me a good mile and a half away.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Good read.
But there has been no words from Apple promoting the crowd-sourcing, or even that the data users are submitting are being put to good use.
If they can prove this by actually showing corrections that have been made, I think more people will start to use the Report Problem feature. My guess is that most people think that problems reported in this way are just headed to the abyss.
Also, the above points are purely about data points and search results. The actual map overlay, which is the first thing the users see, with it's missing rivers and lakes and pixelated cities can not be solved by crowd-sourcing but rather with collaboration of data providers.
With all the good ones signed up with Google (an example in Japan would be Zenrin) I don't see how Apple can catch up in this sense unless they do something crazy like start using OpenStreeMaps and crowd-source the maps themselves. And that's only the street maps, not the satellite overlay.

I agree with every point you've made here.

If Apple has any sense (which they must have being a successful company) they will make crowd sourcing a key part of any statement.

They will talk about the size of the team, which as I understand it is expanding the day, the easiness of being able to report a change & how quickly they will have that change implemented.

They will then flatter the loyal Apple customers to a point where many will think not only is it fun to be part of building something like this, but it's also their duty.

I don't mind if they do all of this, as I don't actually see an alternative for Apple Maps if it's going to be updated quickly but, in addition, I hope they sit down with Google and get Google Maps back on there ASAP with the option for the paying customer to choose their own backend mapping database for other applications.

If they also want to add that it was their plan all along to give the customer choice & that Google were always going to release an app, then that's fine by me too.

I suspect, despite some of the bad feeling over all this, that many of those who choose to have Google Maps in the meantime, will actually help to update the Apple version.

After all, a bit of HEALTHY competition can be good to keep standards high moving forward.

 

[PhoneandPad]

Now, iPhone is essentially a hand held device. I don't use it for driving navigation, for that there are nice GPS units that stick to your windscreen for $75 and up.

So I tried using the Google web maps version for some typical tasks I always use it for - hand held navigation while walking/on public transport. Google App excelled at this in France, Switzerland and UK.

1. Compass integration is GONE with Google Web app. You cannot tell which direction you are facing. I always use this, also useful when taking in tourist views and wanting to know landmark names.

2. Screen real estate is lost to browser functions.

3. Many more clicks needed to achieve a task.

4. Safari browser locks up sometimes. An iPhone power cycle cures it.

5. Easy to lose place on the screen as it's a tall scrollable web page.

Google Maps app wins all ways. This integrated IOS Google Maps app charmed me from the moment the iPhone 4 came out of it's box, it enhanced the ownership of an iPhone significantly.

Watch my lips.
You... cannot... have.. the.. Google... Maps.. App... at... all.. on... IOS... 6

So all our 3 Apple devices stick to IOS 5 for the foreseeable future.

 

[MarqueeK]

I agree with every point you've made here.

If Apple has any sense (which they must have being a successful company) they will make crowd sourcing a key part of any statement.

They will talk about the size of the team, which as I understand it is expanding the day, the easiness of being able to report a change & how quickly they will have that change implemented.

They aren't talking about this because:
1) It would be an outright lie. The data is not being crowd-sourced and the stuff being submitted by the users is actually going straight to the trash can. And size of the team? What team?
or
2) They just don't want to back out on their claim of it being "The most beautiful, powerful mapping service ever" (It's laughable that they've still got that statement on their site)

I sincerely hope that it's only the latter case of bloated pride.

 

[theautopilot]

I agree with every point you've made here.

If Apple has any sense (which they must have being a successful company) they will make crowd sourcing a key part of any statement.

They will talk about the size of the team, which as I understand it is expanding the day, the easiness of being able to report a change & how quickly they will have that change implemented.

They will then flatter the loyal Apple customers to a point where many will think not only is it fun to be part of building something like this, but it's also their duty.

I don't mind if they do all of this, as I don't actually see an alternative for Apple Maps if it's going to be updated quickly but, in addition, I hope they sit down with Google and get Google Maps back on there ASAP with the option for the paying customer to choose their own backend mapping database for other applications.

If they also want to add that it was their plan all along to give the customer choice & that Google were always going to release an app, then that's fine by me too.

I suspect, despite some of the bad feeling over all this, that many of those who choose to have Google Maps in the meantime, will actually help to update the Apple version.

After all, a bit of HEALTHY competition can be good to keep standards high moving forward.

Yep. The idea of a crowd sourced mapping project is in itself a good one, that's what the excellent OpenStreetMap is. But as a live, non-beta, product that people (including thrird party apps) rely on is crazy and not practical. Partly because the amount of errors in my area alone is truely staggering, it's just utterly unbelievable what a mess it's in. It could take years report and verify. I could also imagine some people having a lot of Wikipedia style 'fun' too at Apples (and users) expense. That could make people trust it less (if that's posible for many). It would also be very unfair to us that don't have the time to report stuff all the time, nor want to (why should I, I paid a lot of money for a device I could just use).

So yes, by all means Apple start a crowd sourced project, but you need a working product which people can rely on in the meantime.

 

[theautopilot]

And also, I was thinking about this today but I'm not sure if its been covered much; switching to something so drastically different could actually be dangerous. I'm sure the fanboys will laugh at me, but I once got someone to hospital using Google maps. What would happen in an emergency situation if the maps were wrong and I did not know they had changed? I realise you should not rely on maps alone, but there will be many many people who dont read tech blogs and forums who are unaware of the switch (maybe they will just asume the UI has changed). So far we have had people late for work and meetings, but something far worse could potentially happen if they knew the 'Maps' application could get them somewhere before in a hurry. I would never trust Apple maps in an emergency situation (or even to get me to the local shop which is in a town that's now missing), but many people will be blissfully unaware.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

So that's two replies out of two saying no to the idea of crowdsourcing for improvement of Apple Maps.

How else are they going to do it guys?

I don't know about you, but I've read many articles on this over the past few days, a lot of which were written by cartography/mapping experts.

These guys, who have spent their whole life in the field, are typically amazed at how good Google maps is often calling it the best non-military map the world has ever seen.

The majority of them state that Google has already bought up, or long-term partnered with, all of the best data providers out there, leaving Apple to pick up scraps, if you like.

Looking at the history of development of Google Maps, they also point out that Google initially tried to create their offering in exactly the same way as Apple is doing now, but realised it would be completely impractical.

It was at that point, Google invested in a massive workforce both permanent & contracted, extensive satellite imagery and more importantly, their fleet of cars.

Once they had all of the information at their disposal to produce a fantastic mapping service, they needed for users to be able to search for that information, and who are the kings of search? They combined the data with their engine to produce a superb result.

Apple have pretty much no means to capture the data as quickly or comprehensively as Google has done, they are also nowhere in the search engine field.

What they do have, is a very loyal customer base and if you make it clear to them that changes will be implemented within a week or less, people will submit corrections on a regular basis.

With second-tier partners, no fleet of cars and no massive workforce dedicated to this, I can't see an alternative if we want updates quickly.

Having said all of this, I do expect a reasonable improvement in a subsequent release of iOS 6, as I believe that they've not realised the full potential of the data they already have by not being able to combine all of the elements as accurately & effectively as is possible.

 

[theautopilot]

So that's two replies out of two saying no to the idea of crowdsourcing for improvement of Apple Maps.

How else are they going to do it guys?

I don't know about you, but I've read many articles on this over the past few days, a lot of which were written by cartography/mapping experts.

These guys, who have spent their whole life in the field, are typically amazed at how good Google maps is often calling it the best non-military map the world has ever seen.

The majority of them state that Google has already bought up, or long-term partnered with, all of the best data providers out there, leaving Apple to pick up scraps, if you like.

Looking at the history of development of Google Maps, they also point out that Google initially tried to create their offering in exactly the same way as Apple is doing now, but realised it would be completely impractical.

It was at that point, Google invested in a massive workforce both permanent & contracted, extensive satellite imagery and more importantly, their fleet of cars.

Once they had all of the information at their disposal to produce a fantastic mapping service, they needed for users to be able to search for that information, and who are the kings of search? They combined the data with their engine to produce a superb result.

Apple have pretty much no means to capture the data as quickly or comprehensively as Google has done, they are also nowhere in the search engine field.

What they do have, is a very loyal customer base and if you make it clear to them that changes will be implemented within a week or less, people will submit corrections on a regular basis.

With second-tier partners, no fleet of cars and no massive workforce dedicated to this, I can't see an alternative if we want updates quickly.

Having said all of this, I do expect a reasonable improvement in a subsequent release of iOS 6, as I believe that they've not realised the full potential of the data they already have by not being able to combine all of the elements as accurately & effectively as is possible.

I'm not saying no to a croud sourced map, what I am saying is we need Google Maps (or something as good) as well until Apple Maps is good enough as a primary map. That however will probably take many years.

 

[cyks]

What they do have, is a very loyal customer base and if you make it clear to them that changes will be implemented within a week or less, people will submit corrections on a regular basis.

Perhaps if they had asked nicely it'd be different, but I doubt nearly as many would now be eager to correct mistakes and basically write complete maps just to bring it back to the same level we had a few weeks ago.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

I'm not saying no to a croud sourced map, what I am saying is we need Google Maps (or something as good) as well until Apple Maps is good enough as a primary map . . .

100% agree with that.

 

[Heb 7:4]

S
What they do have, is a very loyal customer base

Had. I've been a very loyal customer. I still like them, but I'm pissed off to have them try and dictate a product change if the purpose was to use me to improve it. Yelp is a bag of *****. No one uses it here in the UK, and I have no desire to help that company become more powerful. I don't want to be a guinea pig telling apple all the places they have wrong, just to help them improve their already premium priced product.

Apple are one of the wealthiest companies in the world, possibly the wealthiest. For that I expect quality, not for them to use me at their convenience.

I'm far too wedded to the apple ecosystem to move to android, but I'm not best pleased with apple at the moment.

 

[theautopilot]

I'm not even sure a croud sourced map is posible for Apple anyway, for the following reasons;

1) OpenStreetMap is open to anyone, not just Apple users, so the potential number of participants is theoretically far lower. People don't have to spend hundreds of dolars to get involved.

2) OpenStreetmap is a 'community' project (essentially its like an open source product). People get involved because its for the 'greater good' of all technology users. Apple is a commercial organisation - other than a few die hard Apple fans, who wants to do something that mainly benifits Apples profit making ability.

3) It's too late in the day. It would be like starting a new social network (and one thats only open to Apple users). There is already to much well established competition.

4) It goes against everything Apple stand for, a closed source system which they alone develop and control.

5) Reporting errors is one thing and that's all well and good, you should be able to report errors for any Apple product. But a crowed soured project is far more than reporting the odd error (and there is a lot more than just the odd error) it requires active participation in actual mapping and research.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Dom - It's absolutely fine to criticise the crowdsourcing approach and you do make some good points, but look at the other aspects of my post the massive workforce, the fleet of cars, the foundation of the search engine etc and how else are Apple going to achieve a quick(er) result?

We all know it was released far too early & we all know Apple won't go back on it, the best we can hope for is that they allow us the choice of Google Maps in the meantime and rely on people to help improve the product (in addition to their own investment plans).

 

[MarqueeK]

So that's two replies out of two saying no to the idea of crowdsourcing for improvement of Apple Maps.

How else are they going to do it guys?

I'm all for Crowdsourcing. But not the type where you need to manually specify a location, make said correction and wait an unspecified amount of time for it to get propagated.
But even before that I am starting to doubt that the map is even capable of crowdsourcing in the first place. What happens when you Report a Problem through the UI? Where does that data go?
Does it get fed in to a complex algorithm that collects, parses, compares and disseminates the data? Does it arrive at some guy's inbox as a formatted e-mail? Does it get collected in an old database no body ever looks at anymore? Is it even hooked up to anything?

Google's crowdsourcing was amazing just because no one was ever told (except maybe in very fine print) that they were part of it. A new restaurant opens up in town and they make a website for it. A typical website usually has an address mentioned in the 'Access' section. Google's bot would take this information and create a new map item, but perhaps not publish it yet on their map.
As customers start searching for the restaurant on Google and visiting its site more often Google can now confirm that this is a viable source and can publish this item on their map with confidence.
If the site appears offline for an extended period of time, Google's bot would know about it and remove the map item, assuming that the joint has folded.
Google did have a Report Problem function, but it was really the last resort for manual data manipulation, usually for reporting infringement on privacy rather than an incorrect location.

With no search engine to backup their POI items and no data providers to provide street maps and satellite images, I really don't see how Apple is going to get out of this.

 

[StoneJack]

I'm not even sure a croud sourced map is posible for Apple anyway, for the following reasons;

1) OpenStreetMap is open to anyone, not just Apple users, so the potential number of participants is theoretically far lower. People don't have to spend hundreds of dolars to get involved.

2) OpenStreetmap is a 'community' project (essentially its like an open source product). People get involved because its for the 'greater good' of all technology users. Apple is a commercial organisation - other than a few die hard Apple fans, who wants to do something that mainly benifits Apples profit making ability.

3) It's too late in the day. It would be like starting a new social network (and one thats only open to Apple users). There is already to much well established competition.

4) It goes against everything Apple stand for, a closed source system which they alone develop and control.

5) Reporting errors is one thing and that's all well and good, you should be able to report errors for any Apple product. But a crowed soured project is far more than reporting the odd error (and there is a lot more than just the odd error) it requires active participation in actual mapping and research.

You are forgetting that the whole Apple app ecosystem with its thousands of excellent apps is itself a tremendous crowd-sourced project with thousand of developers. True that free AppleMaps have less appeal than commercial apps, but don't forget that there are many free excellent apps as well. If someone is willing to submit an excellent free app, why shouldn't one spend less time to update some of most primitive information like an address? If anyone, Apple is most suited for pulling off such an huge crowd sourced deal. But, as I would add, having the proper control and verification, just like in AppStore, is also important. And again, Apple is best at that

 

[PDE]

I just saw Apple's iOS 6 section on their site and thought this rather amusing:


"iOS 6
It takes your iPhone, iPad and iPod touch
in entirely new directions."


That's for sure! It takes us in the opposite direct from where we want to go.

 

[viewfly]

I'm not finding that much if a disaster. It will get better. I'm finding fly over more useful than street maps. But flyover is not everywhere.

 

[theautopilot]

Dom - It's absolutely fine to criticise the crowdsourcing approach and you do make some good points, but look at the other aspects of my post the massive workforce, the fleet of cars, the foundation of the search engine etc and how else are Apple going to achieve a quick(er) result?

We all know it was released far too early & we all know Apple won't go back on it, the best we can hope for is that they allow us the choice of Google Maps in the meantime and rely on people to help improve the product (in addition to their own investment plans).

I agree with you. Just to be clear I am not criticising crowd source mapping, it think it's great and I have helped map parts of my area for OpenStreetMap. I would be more than happy for Apple to use that data, so long as they paid for it to help maintain the project, and allowed OSM to remain independent. The strange thing is that they do have a deal with OSM yet Apples maps contain way more errors and much less detail.

What I am saying is that i don't think it's viable for Apple. But if they did... a) We need a good alternative (Google Maps) in the meantime, and b) Some of the benifits should be fed back into the likes of OSM. This would also be an insentive for many people to get involved.

Of course as you say, they could throw men and money at it ala Google. But how much money and time did it take google. It could take years and billions, and I also think Google stands to make more money back from their maps anyway.

I personally think the only realistic solution is to just buy in better data from better sources, like the Ordance Survey here in the UK. I suspect that's what they will do.

 

[PDE]

Complain!

For those in the UK:

I just filed a complaint with the Citizens advice bureau about misleading advertisement and the update seriously hampering my iphone's functionality. I have no idea if there's any point in doing this, but I'll report back what they say about my rights as a consumer. The phone cost me over £500, so I think I'm entitled to complain when its features are downgraded like this.

Some of Apple's wording (sometimes deliberately cautious, aka misleading):

" all of which may make this the most powerful mapping service ever"

and

"Tilt and rotate to view an area and Maps keeps the names of the streets and places where they belong. So everything’s easy to read, and you won’t get lost." Oh yeah?! How funny is that!

and

"Tap a pin you’ve placed on the map or a search result to see a card full of useful information about that location." Except the information is for another location in a different country Ooops.


I do think that most 'ordinary' customers reading the iOS 6 section will believe that the map app they're getting will be great, accurate and certainly as good as what they have if not better.

Anyway...we'll see what happens.

 

[Cybbe]

For those in the UK:

I just filed a complaint with the Citizens advice bureau about misleading advertisement and the update seriously hampering my iphone's functionality. I have no idea if there's any point in doing this, but I'll report back what they say about my rights as a consumer. The phone cost me over £500, so I think I'm entitled to complain when its features are downgraded like this.

File it with ASA.

http://www.asa.org.uk/Consumers/What-we-cover.aspx

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

PDE - If you already have your complaint ready you could try the ASA;

http://www.asa.org.uk/

Slightly off topic (I apologise), but whilst you're at it you might want to add a small section on the link below about the iPhone 5 being precision made.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/design/

 

[PhoneandPad]

Yes the ASA would definitely force Apple to withdraw any UK advertising claims like the above mentioned.

 

[iphoneclassic]

So that's two replies out of two saying no to the idea of crowdsourcing for improvement of Apple Maps.

How else are they going to do it guys?

I don't know about you, but I've read many articles on this over the past few days, a lot of which were written by cartography/mapping experts.

These guys, who have spent their whole life in the field, are typically amazed at how good Google maps is often calling it the best non-military map the world has ever seen.

The majority of them state that Google has already bought up, or long-term partnered with, all of the best data providers out there, leaving Apple to pick up scraps, if you like.

Looking at the history of development of Google Maps, they also point out that Google initially tried to create their offering in exactly the same way as Apple is doing now, but realised it would be completely impractical.

It was at that point, Google invested in a massive workforce both permanent & contracted, extensive satellite imagery and more importantly, their fleet of cars.

Once they had all of the information at their disposal to produce a fantastic mapping service, they needed for users to be able to search for that information, and who are the kings of search? They combined the data with their engine to produce a superb result.

Apple have pretty much no means to capture the data as quickly or comprehensively as Google has done, they are also nowhere in the search engine field.

What they do have, is a very loyal customer base and if you make it clear to them that changes will be implemented within a week or less, people will submit corrections on a regular basis.

With second-tier partners, no fleet of cars and no massive workforce dedicated to this, I can't see an alternative if we want updates quickly.

Having said all of this, I do expect a reasonable improvement in a subsequent release of iOS 6, as I believe that they've not realised the full potential of the data they already have by not being able to combine all of the elements as accurately & effectively as is possible.

Very Good Summary. Problem, some Apple fans think Apple can fix anything in next update, like they did with any other bugs. This is a different ball game. I think Apple proved itself as a Hardware/OS company and showing weakness in software side. Owning iOS and App Store doesn't make Apple software expert.

 

[aicul]

Maybe already stated:

Apple Maps is a good thing. It is young and obviously has many limitations, incongruencies, etc. It will mature

Commercially this means that googleMaps is no longer the sole player. We all gain from competition.

So, yes, Apple Maps is dissappointing based on what we expect from Apple, however calling it a disaster is not in line with what it will eventually bring about.