WSJ: Jony Ive Became 'Dispirited' After Apple Watch and Sometimes Failed to Show Up to Meetings

[theluggage]

The $17000 gold watch seems like a concession;

You don't necessarily make $17000 gold smartwatches to make money from selling $17000 gold smartwatches.

You make $17000 gold smartwatches for this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...ring-the-Apple-Watch-in-pictures.html?image=2

...and while I'm not going to assume that those celebs got their watches for free its not inconceivable that they did. It's called advertising. Hopefully, it sells $400 watches and up-sells people to $1000 watches. It gets the brand in the news and sells Macs and iPhones.

Now, if Apple ended up with warehouses full of $17k gold Editions because they thought they'd sell by the shedload then that's a different kind of stupid. You *want* a waiting list for your high-end luxury product to give it a veneer of exclusivity. However, you don't have to be very tech savvy to work out that your $17000 watch has the same innards as the $400 one and will be just as obsolete in 18 months' time and worth exactly as much as the scrap gold value (unless, of course, it comes with a certificate of provenance saying that it was worn by Beyonce - in which case it will hold its value for as long as anybody remembers who Beyonce is...)

 

[Rogifan]

From 2011....

Steve Jobs Organized Apple to Give Jony Ive Complete Operational Freedom
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/2...o-give-jony-ive-complete-operational-freedom/

Steve Jobs is dead.

 

[Abazigal]

Can we get Tim to resign now ughhh

You do realise that if Tim does quit, his next in line is probably Jeff Williams, who also has a background in operations as well?

 

[Martyimac]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!!!!

The sudden over increase in prices, minor iterations on the same products year after year, the decline in quality. This company is on a slow long road to decline. I left a comment about the excessive price of the new Mac Pro and was attacked by a forum member because I pointed out how it was priced by some little hotshot out Wharton Business school MBA.

That is exactly what has happened, MBA’s have taken over the company which is a shame.

I've lived long enough, and worked jobs enough to see this happen more often than folks realize. When the bean counters become the boss, it's time to find a new job.

 

[pika2000]

Ballmer under microsoft was one of Microsoft's most profitable as well. (until he was replaced).

But nobody would accuse ballmer of being great for the company, or understanding products.

Profits isn't everything.

I think you can count more blunders done by Ballmer (like dismissing the iPhone) than blunders by Cook. So far, Cook's major mistake was the hiring of the Dixon guy. The rest of his decisions still carries Apple well, especially brand wise like things Apple does in environmental and labor issues (which Jobs couldn't care less).

 

[nnoble]

At this point I’m just hoping Apple will last another 10-15 years. Then I’m getting my pension and I won’t give a flying ****. But throughout my work life span I want to keep on using Macs. Whatever comes after that I don’t care.

I was thinking the exact same thing about Apple but also other things that bring relative certainty in an increasingly unpredictable world. My target date is September 2039 - hang on Apple.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

It turns out the same thing can happen in technology companies that get monopolies, like IBM or Xerox. If you were a product person at IBM or Xerox, so you make a better copier or computer. So what? When you have monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful.

So the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies. And the product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies that have no conception of a good product versus a bad product.

They have no conception of the craftsmanship that's required to take a good idea and turn it into a good product. And they really have no feeling in their hearts, usually, about wanting to really help the customers.

Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview

If I had a dollar for every time this video is posted here I'd be a millionaire.

I've seen this being posted to support an "Apple is doomed, Tim Cook is operations, Apple can't innovate anymore" for virtually EVERY new Apple product within the last few years.

Jony Ive became "disillusioned" because he has more money than he can spend, and has designed products that are used by hundreds of millions of people. There's not much more he can achieve. There's not much more he can want.

He's not being "let go", he's not being "pushed out". He's leaving of his own accord.

 

[Rogifan]

You do realise that if Tim does quit, his next in line is probably Jeff Williams, who also has a background in operations as well?

Ben Bajarin says Jeff Williams has more of an interest in design than is publicly known. Make him CEO.

 

[avanpelt]

Apple has a CEO who is like virtually all other CEOs of large corporations -- their main concern is the bottom line and they have little concern for the intricacies of the products and services of the business so long as the bottom line continues to grow. The CEO has people underneath them who are responsible for making sure that the company's day-to-day operations keep running smoothly so as not to negatively impact the bottom line.

Steve was an incredibly unique CEO (especially for a large company) in that he was intimately involved in the product design process. There aren't many CEOs out there like that. Tim's lack of involvement or interest in product design doesn't mean he's a bad CEO. It means he's like 99.9% of other CEOs of large corporations.

Some people on this board keep saying that Tim Cook needs to step down as CEO. I think the primary reason for their discontent is because they want a CEO who cares as much about and is as involved with the design of Apple's products as Steve was. The reality is that it will be virtually impossible for another person to be CEO and also have deep involvement in product development like Steve did. Even if Apple finds a CEO down the road who is actively involved in product development, the chances of that person having an inherent sense of what makes a product 'good', as Steve did, is even more slim. If the CEO doesn't have a sense of what makes a good product, they're wise to stay out of the product design process.

 

[pika2000]

Ive is a designer, not a C.E.O., big difference. That is why Jobs picked Cook.

Today people think that anyone can be a C.E.O., politician and even a President...not true.

I am not a fan of Cook, but he is a C.E.O. and a good one. I don't care for his politics, the apple culture that he is creating nor is pushed on everything and everywhere that is apple (had to sit in an apple theatre for two hours waiting for repairs...too much a push to shape people's minds). Apple make products and services for people to buy. Just stay there and let people make up their own minds about the other things.

He is doing what a C.E.O. is suppose to do. This is why Apple as a company is prospering and the bucks are coming in. Shareholders are happy. This is what a C.E.O. does.

Again, not a fan of Cook, but he does a good job.

Excellent point. This is what people seemingly failing to grasp. People don't seem to know the job function of a CEO. Even Steve Jobs himself knew that Cook is a better CEO than him (Cook has been the "CEO" behind the scenes even while Jobs is on the helm).
[doublepost=1561992737][/doublepost]

Apple has a CEO who is like virtually all other CEOs of large corporations -- their main concern is the bottom line and they have little concern for the intricacies of the products and services of the business so long as the bottom line continues to grow. The CEO has people underneath them who are responsible for making sure that the company's day-to-day operations keep running smoothly so as not to negatively impact the bottom line.

Steve was an incredibly unique CEO (especially for a large company) in that he was intimately involved in the product design process. There aren't many CEOs out there like that. Tim's lack of involvement or interest in product design doesn't mean he's a bad CEO. It means he's like 99.9% of other CEOs of large corporations.

Some people on this board keep saying that Tim Cook needs to step down as CEO. I think the primary reason for their discontent is because they want a CEO who cares as much about and is as involved with the design of Apple's products as Steve was. The reality is that it will be virtually impossible for another person to be CEO and also have deep involvement in product development like Steve did. Even if Apple finds a CEO down the road who is actively involved in product development, the chances of that person having an inherent sense of what makes a product 'good', as Steve did, is even more slim. If the CEO doesn't have a sense of what makes a good product, they're wise to stay out of the product design process.

Jobs' quality doesn't mean he's a good CEO. Steve was a bad CEO from management point of view. Thus he himself assigned Cook to do all the CEO stuff despite him having the title.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Good riddance. I know Ive has been with Apple a long time. But it seem that in the post Jobs era he has taken Apple to extremes that are just plain user unfriendly. Of course I am talking about the all USB C laptops. And the headphone jack deletion. But beyond that the whole interface approach of Apple on the Mac has been inconsistent and directionless.
They can't decide to go forward or backward with the skeuomorphism of apps.
Apps that are centerpieces of the whole ecosystem like iTunes are a total disaster. Which they are solving by breaking up into more apps?
The new Mac Pro is a bit late, and far over priced (especially the laughable display). But hey it sure looks cool! And hard to manufacture.

 

[Cloudane]

Interesting, as I view the Apple Watch as one of the best things they've produced in the post-Jobs era. If he'd have left because he got overruled on making a sensible keyboard on MacBooks I'd understand.

No, no, no! This is BAD!
Who is going to do the voiceover to the next products video presentations?

Maybe they could hire Brian Cox. He has the boyish breathless wonder voice thing down

 

[I7guy]

...Profits isn't everything.

But posting losses is.

 

[Fattytail]

Who knows how true any of this is, but it does seem a good time to spin this classic once again:

All those unsold gold watches gives you an idea of the excesses of Jony’s unchecked pursuit of elegance, without Steve’s more grounded focus on ‘getting the product into as many hands as possible’. It’s increasingly clear that Apple’s magic was down to how well those guys complimented each other. Gonna be an interesting decade ahead...

I think you’re on to something there. And it’s probably why Steve specifically chose Tim to run the company. Designers have a way of looking at the world that sometimes isn’t so conducive to running a world class company.

It does concern me though that the entire design team is now reporting to Jeff Williams and doesn’t even get a seat at the executive table. What made/makes Apple special is an obsession with design details that other companies would balk at. I hope they’re not driven too much in the opposite direction now.

 

[NufSaid]

Tim Cook = a skinnier version of Ballmer.

Not sure I would agree with that comparison Ballmer had Limited success and failed to see the future

 

[johnnygee]

Ive's gone, stock shoots up at the opening bell. Guess he won't be missed as much as many thought.

 

[Jmausmuc]

I’ve felt ‘dispirited’ by the apple watch ever since they announced it 4 years ago

I feel dispirited by your salty comments hating on one of the greatest design minds the world has ever seen (Ive) and one of the greatest products to ever come out of Apple (the watch).
Not only is it selling very well, everyone wants one. Even my gf has one now and she is not into „tech“ at all.
Get with it.

 

[Naraxus]

Cook has ruined Apple

 

[cmaier]

I think Apple expected the Watch to be another iPad smash-hit. But unlike the iPad, the Watch had competitors almost from the start. It also didn't properly account for the fact that people bang their wrists into things, and anything more than an entry-level version would be seen as a risky buy. Plus, since it needed to be tethered to an iPhone, Watch had a built-in limit to its uptake. The iPad had no such strings attached (hardware strings, anyway) and thus was the runaway hit it became.

The Apple Watch has been a much bigger success than iPad. It is about to pass the entire swiss watch industry in sales. It dominates the smart watch market. What are you talking about?

 

[Jmausmuc]

Ive's gone, stock shoots up at the opening bell. Guess he won't be missed as much as many thought.

All tech stocks are up. You must be delusional to think Apple is better off without Ive.

Everyone on here hating on Ive don’t know what they are talking about. He masterminded the iPhone together with Jobs, he saved crumbling Apple together with jobs. I just can’t believe it.

 

[cmaier]

So, it took about 8 years from the time Steve died to the time Jony left. Give it another 8 before Apple is just another big company without any real personality, driven entirely by sales and business dudes.

Sigh. I wonder if I’ll be using Linux in a few years. Doesn’t seem impossible.

Ah, yes, because the one word that comes to mind when discussing Linux is “personality.”

 

[MX20]

 utterly forgotten that its subset customer seeks for an updated version of $999 Thunderbolt Display which at least include a stand instead of $5000 display like the XDR without including a stand. Jony Ive performance is such a disappointment that the design department might be in deep trouble for the mistakes and omission it made.

 

[macintoshmac]

No matter if Ive feels low enthusiasm for nowadays Apple, I also feel low enthusiasm for Ive's current interests. Yes, he did the industrial design, and the HI, but that was in the past. If you love the Mac, all Ive "contributions" to the Mac in the last 10 years have been quite bad (destroy Aqua, and bring nonsense iOS candy to the Mac, just to name two). I still keep a G5 running Tiger, and when I start it, I say "now, this is why I chose the Mac".

Tiger user interface was beautiful on so many levels. Visually, operationally.

 

[hawkeye_a]

It seems like every 'manager' who cared about or was involved with the *product* has been leaving. (Specifically the guys who Steve recruited and assembled when he came back to Apple in '97)

Can't help but wonder if the discontent is the direct result of the new management style a-la Tim.

One thing's for sure, Apple2019 isn't the Apple I used t o care about, and as time goes on, it seems unlikely that it will change course, unfortunately.

 

[KPOM]

I have to say, regarding the apple watch, except for the most ardent Apple fans, most people saw that high end apple watches were not going to be popular, even amongst the rich and ultra rich. Why buy a watch for that much and have it only last a few years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have the first generation apple watch and it barely functions, only after 4 years, can you imagine someone dropping a 1,000+ or more on a rolex and it only lasting a 4 years? Not likely.

A Rolex is a lot more than $1000. I do think 40 million was a very unrealistic forecast, if the WSJ is correct. I'm not surprised that the gold watches didn't sell. That said, the Hermes is a good balance and is about the right price for a fashion-conscious person to splurge every couple of years or so. The $200 premium for the custom watch face is a bit much (especially now since WatchOS 6 adds square watch faces), but I would not be surprised to see the Hermes line continue. The bands are high quality, and Hermes gets good exposure.

Of course, the broader point is that Ive was the one pushing for the gold and ceramic designs. And undoubtedly he pushed the 12" MacBook, butterfly keyboard and the switch to all USB-C, all of which were controversial.