Also you could buy a M2 Max Studio with Studio Display, or a M2 Max 16" Laptop, or three M2 15" MBA's, or three iPhone 14 Pro Max.
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WWDC 2023 Apple Event Live Keynote Coverage: Headset, iOS 17, New Macs, and More
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I don't know if anyone posted, but we now have completed the AS transition, there are no more intel Macs being sold in the Apple Store.
Boo no new airpods Max. Gotta decide whether to pul the trigger on v1 now that my Beats are dying or just get another beats for $300 less 
Got mine a month ago glad they are still current LOLBoo no new airpods Max. Gotta decide whether to pul the trigger on v1 now that my Beats are dying or just get another beats for $300 less
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there ya goo....tehre ya goooo
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Welp. The Apple Silicon Mac Pro's case/logic board/cooling system/I/O boards/SATA Ports/dual 10 Gb Ethernet ports alone are worth €3286 in Portugal. That's how much of a difference there is between the base Mac Pro model and the base Mac Studio model with M2 Ultra plus a TouchID Keyboard and a Magic Mouse 2.
I guess I was wrong about the kitted out Studio models, they definitely still make sense for anyone who doesn't need PCIe slots, extra I/O and upgradable internal storage (which they're now selling as kits on their store, good).
I guess I was wrong about the kitted out Studio models, they definitely still make sense for anyone who doesn't need PCIe slots, extra I/O and upgradable internal storage (which they're now selling as kits on their store, good).
They may allow for some “clutter” (i.e. overlapping windows) in the future, though, much like they are now allowing for it on external displays under iPadOS.
So VisionPro thoughts from me.
Hate that I have to wait until next year to get one.
Totally see it as a relatively rough first gen experience, but still leagues better than any existing computing interface. Seems like a lot more software than any other VR headset I know of. Hardware wise, the M2 + R1 is a lot more computing than competition bakes in. Makes it a little clunky compared to some recent display only competition, but still smaller than 1st Gen VR from the 2016/2017 range, so not a big issue. Clearly it's a "wear for a few hours" kind of device at this point, taking it on and off will be a bit annoying. Kinda wish there was a version with only the display and the compute hardware on the other end of the tether for users who mostly want it as a display replacement. But all of it will be moot over time.
AR will be the real game-changer. And this isn't that yet. Even a device of this size and capability that can be switched off and become just your glasses/sunglasses would be a major step forward, but one that apparently isn't ready yet. Hoping for an AR version just a few years down the line, until then VisionOS won't take over the world. But This step is huge -- It's the cost of 2 Studio displays, but can give you far more capability far more portably.
Definitely seems like it's mostly to replace multi display setups and content consumption role of the iPad/TV for now. Both cases it can excel at for sure. But as with any new paradigm, the real "killer" use cases won't be clear until devs and consumers get to play with it for a while.
Love that gaming was presented mostly as an afterthought, just more content it can display. I've always felt that gaming (and porn) are among the worst use cases for VR/MR/AR. VR is great for "laser-tag" style real world games, it's cheaper to build a play space with cardboard boxes in an empty warehouse and make it look like an alien planet than it is to send people to another solar system and hope they get to fight aliens when they arrive! But for gaming where I'm sitting in my own home, I just want a big, clear screen, not to get motion sick as my view moves but my body doesn't.
Why is it shipping next year with M2? Seems 3nm M3 should be out and provide noticeable advantages. Hopefully this can be kinda like the iPhone being announced with plastic screen and shipping with glass.
Can you input video from older/non-apple devices? If not, there's a large market that needs to be tapped. If I buy this to replace all my displays, eventually I won't own a TV or monitor, but still want to be able to use a PC, game console or physical media player.
That brings up I/O in general - it's got an M2 and so is as capable as most macs, but other than BT being mentioned and connection to your Mac, is there any I/O at all? To make this replace other devices it does need at least a little I/O. Even just one TB port like an iPad allows for easy loading in content to play without another device and bouncing it off the cloud.
Oh, and how does the filesystem of VisionOS work? Like closer to Finder or closer to iOS/iPadOS? Visually Vision OS came across as more "Full featured" than iOS/iPadOS, but also far more "controlled" or locked down than MacOS. My hope is that all the OSes merge into VisionOS over the next decade or so, so I do hope it's robust when not connected to a separate Mac.
Honestly shocked the price came in higher than the $3k estimate, assumed it would come in a bit under for the PR win. that being said, if it can replace my iPhone, iPad, TV, and Mac it's not a completely insane price.
That brings up the question I've always had with the iPad, watch and now this: why do I need an iPhone to have a cellphone number? I take calls on my AirPods, and text from my mac, the iPhone only exists as the home of my virtual sim, a cellular modem, and the hub to sync my watch with. Why can't I pay my carrier to have an "iPhone" number without having any actual "phone" form factor device?
All in all, love the VisionPro, even if my version (with early 2024 tech) would have the M3, a couple TB ports somewhere, clear support for video in, the ability to run MacOS in a window without a Mac, and the ability to host a virtual SIM card so I don't need an iPhone. With all those features, I would be able to retire multiple monitors, multiple TVs, a MacBook, an iPad, and an iPhone.
As presented, it absolutely means I will never buy an iPad again. And it almost certainly changes the math on when I'll think about a MacBook upgrade. I'm now assuming I'll put what was supposed to be M3Max MBP money into this instead and keep my M1Max longer than expected. I still foresee at least one more mac for me before a set of AR Vision glasses can replace all computing needs, but this will likely be 3-4 years instead of 12-18 months out now.
Lots to digest, and such a frustratingly long time before I get to buy one! I can't wait!
Side note : love that the MacPro lives on. Wish it wasn't quite so pricey, wish it could take DDR5 and treat it as super fast swap. Wish it could support 2 M2Ultra. Wonder if the SoC will be removable/upgradeable? Wonder how many lanes of PCIe it has. Will we get Apple accelerators for more GPU/rendering power? But knowing that it keeps exisiting gives me hope for the Mac. Really though, why does expandability have to be tied to only the highest tier systems?
Does no one else need limited compute power but prefer to fit all their drives and expansion in one case rather than spread all over the desk and connected by cables? I love my M1 mini, but hate that it's attached to so many external devices for I/O and storage, wish I could put just an M2 in the case of a Pro or even a half sized Pro so I can put a few NVME, 4+ HDD, and things like networking adapters and video capture devices (I still digitize lots of tapes and other ancient content, would love to do that with less extra boxes and cables). (ideally with drop in SoC upgrades too -- starting at $2500 for 8/256 M2 MacPro, ramping up to $7k for the M2 Ultra. But later you can buy an M4 Ultra drop in SoC with 256GB RAM for like $5k)
Hate that I have to wait until next year to get one.
Totally see it as a relatively rough first gen experience, but still leagues better than any existing computing interface. Seems like a lot more software than any other VR headset I know of. Hardware wise, the M2 + R1 is a lot more computing than competition bakes in. Makes it a little clunky compared to some recent display only competition, but still smaller than 1st Gen VR from the 2016/2017 range, so not a big issue. Clearly it's a "wear for a few hours" kind of device at this point, taking it on and off will be a bit annoying. Kinda wish there was a version with only the display and the compute hardware on the other end of the tether for users who mostly want it as a display replacement. But all of it will be moot over time.
AR will be the real game-changer. And this isn't that yet. Even a device of this size and capability that can be switched off and become just your glasses/sunglasses would be a major step forward, but one that apparently isn't ready yet. Hoping for an AR version just a few years down the line, until then VisionOS won't take over the world. But This step is huge -- It's the cost of 2 Studio displays, but can give you far more capability far more portably.
Definitely seems like it's mostly to replace multi display setups and content consumption role of the iPad/TV for now. Both cases it can excel at for sure. But as with any new paradigm, the real "killer" use cases won't be clear until devs and consumers get to play with it for a while.
Love that gaming was presented mostly as an afterthought, just more content it can display. I've always felt that gaming (and porn) are among the worst use cases for VR/MR/AR. VR is great for "laser-tag" style real world games, it's cheaper to build a play space with cardboard boxes in an empty warehouse and make it look like an alien planet than it is to send people to another solar system and hope they get to fight aliens when they arrive! But for gaming where I'm sitting in my own home, I just want a big, clear screen, not to get motion sick as my view moves but my body doesn't.
Why is it shipping next year with M2? Seems 3nm M3 should be out and provide noticeable advantages. Hopefully this can be kinda like the iPhone being announced with plastic screen and shipping with glass.
Can you input video from older/non-apple devices? If not, there's a large market that needs to be tapped. If I buy this to replace all my displays, eventually I won't own a TV or monitor, but still want to be able to use a PC, game console or physical media player.
That brings up I/O in general - it's got an M2 and so is as capable as most macs, but other than BT being mentioned and connection to your Mac, is there any I/O at all? To make this replace other devices it does need at least a little I/O. Even just one TB port like an iPad allows for easy loading in content to play without another device and bouncing it off the cloud.
Oh, and how does the filesystem of VisionOS work? Like closer to Finder or closer to iOS/iPadOS? Visually Vision OS came across as more "Full featured" than iOS/iPadOS, but also far more "controlled" or locked down than MacOS. My hope is that all the OSes merge into VisionOS over the next decade or so, so I do hope it's robust when not connected to a separate Mac.
Honestly shocked the price came in higher than the $3k estimate, assumed it would come in a bit under for the PR win. that being said, if it can replace my iPhone, iPad, TV, and Mac it's not a completely insane price.
That brings up the question I've always had with the iPad, watch and now this: why do I need an iPhone to have a cellphone number? I take calls on my AirPods, and text from my mac, the iPhone only exists as the home of my virtual sim, a cellular modem, and the hub to sync my watch with. Why can't I pay my carrier to have an "iPhone" number without having any actual "phone" form factor device?
All in all, love the VisionPro, even if my version (with early 2024 tech) would have the M3, a couple TB ports somewhere, clear support for video in, the ability to run MacOS in a window without a Mac, and the ability to host a virtual SIM card so I don't need an iPhone. With all those features, I would be able to retire multiple monitors, multiple TVs, a MacBook, an iPad, and an iPhone.
As presented, it absolutely means I will never buy an iPad again. And it almost certainly changes the math on when I'll think about a MacBook upgrade. I'm now assuming I'll put what was supposed to be M3Max MBP money into this instead and keep my M1Max longer than expected. I still foresee at least one more mac for me before a set of AR Vision glasses can replace all computing needs, but this will likely be 3-4 years instead of 12-18 months out now.
Lots to digest, and such a frustratingly long time before I get to buy one! I can't wait!
Side note : love that the MacPro lives on. Wish it wasn't quite so pricey, wish it could take DDR5 and treat it as super fast swap. Wish it could support 2 M2Ultra. Wonder if the SoC will be removable/upgradeable? Wonder how many lanes of PCIe it has. Will we get Apple accelerators for more GPU/rendering power? But knowing that it keeps exisiting gives me hope for the Mac. Really though, why does expandability have to be tied to only the highest tier systems?
Does no one else need limited compute power but prefer to fit all their drives and expansion in one case rather than spread all over the desk and connected by cables? I love my M1 mini, but hate that it's attached to so many external devices for I/O and storage, wish I could put just an M2 in the case of a Pro or even a half sized Pro so I can put a few NVME, 4+ HDD, and things like networking adapters and video capture devices (I still digitize lots of tapes and other ancient content, would love to do that with less extra boxes and cables). (ideally with drop in SoC upgrades too -- starting at $2500 for 8/256 M2 MacPro, ramping up to $7k for the M2 Ultra. But later you can buy an M4 Ultra drop in SoC with 256GB RAM for like $5k)
Wait til you see the price of its cleaning cloth!
Holy crap, I've just had an epiphany; Apple could, and likely will, release one or several Sport versions of Apple Vision Pro WITHOUT any of the screen gear (inner or outer) and running a dumbed-down version of the OS, in the form of googles (simple ones, snow ones, marine ones, you name it), with only the camera and microphone hardware and a storage medium (and maybe even an integrated battery instead of what is essentially a permanently-tethered powerbank) just for 3D/VR video capture on the cheap.
While doing those activities, you really want to be “in the moment”, with none of the AR cruft obscuring your experience or distracting you from important sensorial input (no matter how good their headsets become, they'll never become a substitute for real life), or constant fear of damaging your extremely expensive device through impacts or just simple exposure to the elements, and instead rely on your hardy and dependable Apple Watch for real-time data, and… yet, you may wish to “relive” your experience in the future with your proper Apple Vision Pro, back in the comfort of your home. Heck, people may even start using those cheaper models on the go just to record their kids' birthdays and weddings and whatnot (a really interesting and likely popular use case, I reckon), without looking like freaking cyborgs in the process.
This thing will fit in/create an entire ecosystem, something Apple has always been extremely adept at and keen on. This has the potential to be HUGE, and the software is mostly all there already. It really is like those devices in Palahniuk's Rant, or Musk's stupid neural implants, or The Matrix, but with none of the, err, physical hassle – or Sci-Fi-level of innovation, for that matter – involved in plugging stuff straight into your cortex. If Apple plays their cards right, and their competitors fail to respond in kind, GoPros and the like will be toast in two or three years, tops. Mark my words. Because, duh, any 3D/VR video recorded with these can be dumbed down and posted or otherwise consumed as 2D on any platform. If the price is right, no one in their right mind will keep creating inferior content, it's basic future-proofing.
IT'S IN THE NAME, right in front of our noses. “Apple Vision Pro”. Going by Apple's current product matrix, the Pro suffix implies the future existence of non-Pro versions. You may even start seeing people buying the cheaper versions just to produce content before the Pro version actually becomes affordable. There'll be the OG, balls-to-the-wall immersive, VR-like (and VR-capable) Pro version; there'll be the dumb Sport version that only records content and protects your eyeballs in the process; there may even be an even simpler camera 3D camera accessory – heck, why not… hats, going full Valve-in-game-collectible? Discrete and fashionable headbands? – for non-Sport applications; there'll be the true, real-life AR, HUD/Google Glass-style middle-ground. All running the same underlying OS, and all compatible with each other. Holy crap. We should all be buying Apple stock right now.
While doing those activities, you really want to be “in the moment”, with none of the AR cruft obscuring your experience or distracting you from important sensorial input (no matter how good their headsets become, they'll never become a substitute for real life), or constant fear of damaging your extremely expensive device through impacts or just simple exposure to the elements, and instead rely on your hardy and dependable Apple Watch for real-time data, and… yet, you may wish to “relive” your experience in the future with your proper Apple Vision Pro, back in the comfort of your home. Heck, people may even start using those cheaper models on the go just to record their kids' birthdays and weddings and whatnot (a really interesting and likely popular use case, I reckon), without looking like freaking cyborgs in the process.
This thing will fit in/create an entire ecosystem, something Apple has always been extremely adept at and keen on. This has the potential to be HUGE, and the software is mostly all there already. It really is like those devices in Palahniuk's Rant, or Musk's stupid neural implants, or The Matrix, but with none of the, err, physical hassle – or Sci-Fi-level of innovation, for that matter – involved in plugging stuff straight into your cortex. If Apple plays their cards right, and their competitors fail to respond in kind, GoPros and the like will be toast in two or three years, tops. Mark my words. Because, duh, any 3D/VR video recorded with these can be dumbed down and posted or otherwise consumed as 2D on any platform. If the price is right, no one in their right mind will keep creating inferior content, it's basic future-proofing.
IT'S IN THE NAME, right in front of our noses. “Apple Vision Pro”. Going by Apple's current product matrix, the Pro suffix implies the future existence of non-Pro versions. You may even start seeing people buying the cheaper versions just to produce content before the Pro version actually becomes affordable. There'll be the OG, balls-to-the-wall immersive, VR-like (and VR-capable) Pro version; there'll be the dumb Sport version that only records content and protects your eyeballs in the process; there may even be an even simpler camera 3D camera accessory – heck, why not… hats, going full Valve-in-game-collectible? Discrete and fashionable headbands? – for non-Sport applications; there'll be the true, real-life AR, HUD/Google Glass-style middle-ground. All running the same underlying OS, and all compatible with each other. Holy crap. We should all be buying Apple stock right now.
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No need to live alone. As long as you sometimes use your TV, tablet, phone or computer alone, this is useful. One of the reasons VisionOS isn't fully ready yet though -- eventually people will be trading in a pile of Macs, iPads, monitors, TVs, and iPhones for a couple pairs of VisionAir glasses.
I do understand why some people think this isn't 100% ready and therefore shouldn't have been launched yet, but I do think it's far enough along to provide benefits and be viable, so I say why not release it and get the ball rolling. If Apple waited for every great feature like 4G or multiple cameras or Retina displays to launch the first iPhone, it likely would have come out too late to take over marketsahre. Timing is everything in entering a new category, and Apple thinks now is the time to enter HMD/VR/MR/AR. Honestly, it might be a year or two early, but I think the tech needs public beta testing. The first Mac didn't have enough memory to function and cost more than VisionPro inflation adjusted. The first iPod was Mac only and expensive and only really hit its stride in gen 4. The first watch was all but useless. The first iPhone was more a proof of concept than a full featured smartphone. This launch will go down as the start of the next era of computing interface, but this device will be quickly seen as fatally flawed compared to its successors. It's the way of things. The 2026 VisionPro will be badass, and the 2028 VisionAir that looks more like a bulky glasses frame, is fully AR so you can see the real world through it, and lasts all day, all for $1500 will be more ubiquitous than the iPhone.
I'm pretty sure that the current $10 one is already compatible with Apple Vision Pro. That smooth glass is probably way more resilient than Pro Display XDR and Studio Display's micro-blasted matte versions.
I reckon many people will actively take it to the bathroom. 😏
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Also, people keep complaining about the price and whatnot, because an entire family won't be able to afford an entire kit as of now; who effing cares? In due time, they will, and once they do… You will have great AR multiplayer experiences, and AR collaborative productivity tools and whatnot (and maybe the users' entire eye region might just be re-rendered in 3D, in real-time, when in such an environment, to make the devices themselves “disappear”; have you thought of that? Think memoji on steroids; if they don't have the technology for such a thing yet, they definitely will soon, and I bet you that if me, a lowly typography teacher, could envision it, they thought of and patented it already).
By then, this thing will be compact enough for it not to be a hassle to wear for longer periods of time, and even if people don't keep it on all the time (and I hope they don't), they might just put it on every now and then because it's gonna be fun. Like, Nintendo-Wii-levels of fun, in a way “conventional” gamers whose multiplayer experiences are mostly online or otherwise virtual – yes, even in a LAN, and even with verbal interaction in a shared space, and I know what it feels like because I did play my fair share of LAN matches back in the day – and inherently lonely. Methinks those are just projecting their own experiences onto this platform and failing to see its potential once, duh, everyone at home has their own pair, much like they already have an iPhone each.
That's the thing you people aren't getting: this looks fun, and will be fun. Sure, none of this is very original, but not only does it look fun, it also looks approachable and slick. This thing still has a stupid tether and battery/processing box, and it already looks more comfortable and easier to put on and take off than most of the competing devices (which, mind you, will have precisely the effect of people not keeping them on all the time; here, I'm thinking as a designer, something many of you aren't doing because… you aren't designers ). Imagine when it's self-contained and as easy to put on as a pair of ski googles. Because, guess what, it's already 75% of the way there. And yes, for all your joking, let me tell you that's not a big hassle; I should know that, as I've also been wearing those for years now.
By then, this thing will be compact enough for it not to be a hassle to wear for longer periods of time, and even if people don't keep it on all the time (and I hope they don't), they might just put it on every now and then because it's gonna be fun. Like, Nintendo-Wii-levels of fun, in a way “conventional” gamers whose multiplayer experiences are mostly online or otherwise virtual – yes, even in a LAN, and even with verbal interaction in a shared space, and I know what it feels like because I did play my fair share of LAN matches back in the day – and inherently lonely. Methinks those are just projecting their own experiences onto this platform and failing to see its potential once, duh, everyone at home has their own pair, much like they already have an iPhone each.
That's the thing you people aren't getting: this looks fun, and will be fun. Sure, none of this is very original, but not only does it look fun, it also looks approachable and slick. This thing still has a stupid tether and battery/processing box, and it already looks more comfortable and easier to put on and take off than most of the competing devices (which, mind you, will have precisely the effect of people not keeping them on all the time; here, I'm thinking as a designer, something many of you aren't doing because… you aren't designers
). Imagine when it's self-contained and as easy to put on as a pair of ski googles. Because, guess what, it's already 75% of the way there. And yes, for all your joking, let me tell you that's not a big hassle; I should know that, as I've also been wearing those for years now.
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Yeah, price is an issue for this version. I’m assuming ~2027 for the VisionAir at less than half the price, which is when mass adoption will take off. I want one of these, but I also would love to replace my MacBook Pro with an M3max version with more storage (1tb isn‘t working so great for me anymore) when that comes out. Now I have to decide which one is a bigger deal next year. Leaning emotionally towards the visionPro, but intellectually towards the MacBookPro.
As impressive as their presentation was, showing a room’s worth of floating screens and apps up and accessible, what I do question is whether we users, or the system itself, will get overwhelmed with so many available options/distractions?
I have 4 screens on my desk right now facing me, not including my iPhone which thankfully generally stays screen-down, and I don’t want to have even more screens up reminding me of all the things I have to do.
The other issue, which I don’t think they really got into (I only watched some of the presentation - since I had 3 other screens worth of things to do) is what typing on a keyboard floating in space is going to be like. Sure, in sci-fi movies it seems natural for people to air-touch screens or keyboards, but I can’t imagine doing hours of work typing while holding your arms and hands out unsupported. Sure, you could type on a desk or some other flat panel, but then why not just have a real physical keyboard?
I have 4 screens on my desk right now facing me, not including my iPhone which thankfully generally stays screen-down, and I don’t want to have even more screens up reminding me of all the things I have to do.
The other issue, which I don’t think they really got into (I only watched some of the presentation - since I had 3 other screens worth of things to do) is what typing on a keyboard floating in space is going to be like. Sure, in sci-fi movies it seems natural for people to air-touch screens or keyboards, but I can’t imagine doing hours of work typing while holding your arms and hands out unsupported. Sure, you could type on a desk or some other flat panel, but then why not just have a real physical keyboard?
Yeah well I just upgraded my 5 year old iPad Pro 1 TB 12.9 inch(gen 3) and late 2018 MacBook Pro 15 inch to a new gen 6 iPad Pro 12.9 2 TB and 16 inch M2 Pro MacBook Pro. I had the money saved up so no credit needed. But now I am good for another 4-5. Years maybe by then this will be of interest and affordable.
It’s clearly designed to use the virtual keyboard as a crutch when voice input isn‘t enough. But you’re supposed to use a real keyboard when working/typing more than a quick message. text input paradig is going to shift as visionOS is adopted, and I won’t be surprised if the end result is something totally different than what has been imagined yet.
That's the thing right there. It's 2007 for me all over again. I felt excited about the OG iPhone, but couldn't fathom plonking down $500 for a phone and a subscription data plan, when I already had a much cheaper iPod and dumb phone with a pre-paid voice and SMS card (which was the norm for young people here in Europe)… I waited until 2014, after owning a few iPod Classics and Touches – one 5G Classic was stolen and replaced with a 6G, one 4G Touch was lost, its replacement 4G was defective and I returned it, and I ended up settling on the 5G –, and I obviously never looked back.
In a sense, I can't fathom spending so much on a device that is just not quite there yet, but the potential, the slickness of it all? Holy crap. For sure, the presentation lacked the audience's reaction – one can never forget the mass, very justified hysteria from that fateful day –, but I'd say that objectively speaking, from a design and manufacturing standpoint, this thing looks even slicker than the OG iPhone in comparison. No, really; it did have that nice stainless steel band and aluminium back, but when you look at it for what it was, with a recently sourced Gorilla Glass screen, recessed headphone jack, messy interiors, plastic bottom, etc., it looks… cobbled together. This thing, if they just excluded the tethered box and made it thinner, and gave it a larger and better resolution front screen, would be 100% there. Like iPhone 4/5-level there. We're just two years away from seeing this thing take the market absolutely by storm.