WWDC PowerBook G5 2.2GHz?

[sambo.]

sheesh.........

the G5 powerbook will be here when it gets here.

heck, if steve wasn't so busy trying to keep it 1" thick and pretty, we'd prolly get it quicker. but then everyone'd whinge 'bout apple making an "ugly" powerbook or something stupid.....

prolly gonna be watercooled too..... nice little engineering challenge to set yaself....

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Apple was doing this with Motorola G4's before the G5 came out. What law were they breaking?

Apple was not doing this with the G4's. They were going by the ratings given to them by Moto. To me this is different from a Motorola sending out a chip that they rate at 1GHz and Apple running it at 1.25GHz. As the yields improve, manufacturing a chip you will get more and more chips at the highend. When Motorola first produced the 7455 (which believe is the first 1GHz G4), the yields probably did not produce enough chips capable of running above 1GHz to make it even worth testing above (or for Motorola to sell them at 1GHz). As the yields improve you start to get more and more chips capable of the top speeds so now you start testing for 1.25GHz and even 1.42GHz.

You're splitting hairs. A CPU can 'run' at a given speed when it is accurate inside a given performance envelope. Typically this envelope is defined by heat, in the case of modern CPU's.

You can't say a chip is rated at 2.5GHz without specifying the operating conditions. If you put no cooler on it, it would probably melt itself. If you put aircoolers on it, it would probably give errors. If you put a watercooler on it, it would run OK.

So a watercooled 2.5 is different than an aircooled 2.5. Do you see that point?

When the G5's first rolled of the line, I am sure that there were very few (if any) chips that could have run at 2.5GHz. Now, I would guess that IBM is producing enough that Apple can start selling them as 2.5GHz chips.

Now, you can take an aircooled part at a given speed and run it at a much higher speed by changing its cooling method. You're changing the number of BTU's that can be dissipated by the chip, so you're changing the operating conditions, so the ratings are no longer meaningful.

They're not likely to run that fast with aircooling. It would take watercooling to run them that fast, that's what I was getting at. Apple just came out with a watercooler and it hasn't shipped yet.

I suspect somebody will now take their stock G5 2.0 and try putting an aftermarket watercooler on it. The tolerances are very important, so it might be hard to find one to fit unless the G5 package just happens to be the same size as a PC chip package. Someone with access to a university engineering lab could also fabricate an appropriate fastener.

And simply cooling the chip doesn't make it run faster. You still have to go in there and adjust the CPU clock itself (either using jumpers or playing with the BIOS). After you convince the computer that it has a 2.5GHz chip in it, there is still no guarantee that it is going to run at its new speed (or ever run again at all). There are plenty of overclocking failures out there, and heat is not the only culprit. Electromigration can cause shorts by simply running the processor at too high a frequency (even without it ever getting too hot). If heat were the only thing, I should be able to run my iMac G3 at 3GHz if I could just figure out how to cool it properly.

Huh? That was exactly the point.

If you agree that there is nothing intrisically wrong with the G5, and we just have to be patient for PowerBooks, then why did you say "There's something very wrong with the G5"?

 

[numediaman]

I think this post best illustrates why a lot of people are not thrilled with the latest update:

I share your apprehension (about the new liquid cooling system). The presence of the Rev A Liquid Cooling technology deployment will be the number 1 reason why I don't get a 2.5 - if I don't.

. . . Together with the disappointment I feel over no second optical drive bay, no additional hard drive bays, and this initial-deployment of a new cooling system (given the sporatic performance of many of Apple's Rev A introductions), I'm generally not thrilled at all with this increment.
​

Notice, he's not saying the new cooling system won't work -- just that it is a "rev. a" change to a "rev. b" machine -- and that no other obvious improvements have been made.

EDIT: I found another post that reinforces my feelings of disappointment about this update.

June 12th, 2004 -- I spent yesterday testing the Rev B G5/2.0GHz MP Power Mac. Some early impressions and insights:

1. The GeForceFX 5200 is wimpy. (I've added its 3D numbers to the Radeon 9800 Special Edition article.) If you plan to run any OpenGL aware apps, you should special order your G5 and specify the $50 for the Radeon 9600 XT (128M).

2. I'm not sure if the 2GHz "Rev B" G5 uses the 90nm chip, but it is not any faster than the 2GHz "Rev A" G5. I ran the iMovie effects render test, Cinebench 2003, and Xbench. Virtually identical results. (Xbench identifies the "Rev B" as "PowerMac7,3." The Rev A is identified as a "PowerMac7,2." Isn't the 90nm chip supposed to be identified as a "PowerMac8,1"?)

3. The FireWire 800 RAID write speed issue has NOT been fixed. In my quick test with a striped pair of LaCie Big Disk Extremes on the built-in FW800 port, the sustained write speed is still stuck at 54MB/s while the same pair connected to a G4 PowerBook gave a sustained WRITE speed of 74MB/s. (A PowerBook beats a G5? Huh?)​

I admit that the new top end machine is very interesting -- but I always buy the mid-price point. And to date, these machines are not attractive to me until they fix the known problems (including the power supply).

 

[Bhennies]

I think this post best illustrates why a lot of people are not thrilled with the latest update:

I share your apprehension (about the new liquid cooling system). The presence of the Rev A Liquid Cooling technology deployment will be the number 1 reason why I don't get a 2.5 - if I don't.

. . . Together with the disappointment I feel over no second optical drive bay, no additional hard drive bays, and this initial-deployment of a new cooling system (given the sporatic performance of many of Apple's Rev A introductions), I'm generally not thrilled at all with this increment.
​

Notice, he's not saying the new cooling system won't work -- just that it is a "rev. a" change to a "rev. b" machine -- and that no other obvious improvements have been made.

EDIT: I found another post that reinforces my feelings of disappointment about this update.

June 12th, 2004 -- I spent yesterday testing the Rev B G5/2.0GHz MP Power Mac. Some early impressions and insights:

1. The GeForceFX 5200 is wimpy. (I've added its 3D numbers to the Radeon 9800 Special Edition article.) If you plan to run any OpenGL aware apps, you should special order your G5 and specify the $50 for the Radeon 9600 XT (128M).

2. I'm not sure if the 2GHz "Rev B" G5 uses the 90nm chip, but it is not any faster than the 2GHz "Rev A" G5. I ran the iMovie effects render test, Cinebench 2003, and Xbench. Virtually identical results. (Xbench identifies the "Rev B" as "PowerMac7,3." The Rev A is identified as a "PowerMac7,2." Isn't the 90nm chip supposed to be identified as a "PowerMac8,1"?)

3. The FireWire 800 RAID write speed issue has NOT been fixed. In my quick test with a striped pair of LaCie Big Disk Extremes on the built-in FW800 port, the sustained write speed is still stuck at 54MB/s while the same pair connected to a G4 PowerBook gave a sustained WRITE speed of 74MB/s. (A PowerBook beats a G5? Huh?)​

I admit that the new top end machine is very interesting -- but I always buy the mid-price point. And to date, these machines are not attractive to me until they fix the known problems (including the power supply).

Word. What happens if the damn thing leaks? Not only will you lose your motherboard, but also your data- last I checked my seagate drives weren't waterproof. Oh well, probably gonna buy one anyway

 

[Florida Gator]

anyways, how bout that next revision of powerbooks?

 

[James L]

FYI, Apple hasn't overclocked chips in the past, they have used the chips at the ratings Moto gave them (as mentioned by someone above).

 

[macsrus]

It is unrealistic to think that a G5 powerbook is comming anytime soon

1. Power Books were just upadated
2. How can they possibly cool the freaking things

I dont know how many of you guys have an xserve G5, but we have 2 here at work and they are noisey beasts.... i.e. alot of fans running all the time
just to keep it cool.... and these are 90nm 2.0s

If a G5 is hard to cool in a 1.74 inch( 1U) then they will be almost impossible to cool in a Powerbook....

And even if they do get one for the powerbook it will probably be clocked down to 1.4 to maybe 1.8 max...

5 or 6 weeks ago I was talking to a Field Engineer at Apple and he told me that he didnt believe that the Pbs would get G5s any faster than 1.6
when and if they get one at all....

Lastly I would add that for most current applications a G4 will perform the same or better than a G5 at the same clock speed..... due to the G5s longer pipelines. This same behavior was seen when Intel went from the P3 to the P4.

 

[Danieljs]

PBG5 at WWDC 2004 Not Likely

I agree with most people on this thread: there probably will not be a PBG5 announced at the end of June. Tom Boger, Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing, said "I think it's important to realize that the technical challenges are not trivial putting that G5 in a PowerBook ... and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year." (Infoworld.com http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/06/09/HNnewg5s_1.html)

As to the idea of liquid cooling, I think it is unlikely to see a LC unit in a notebook because of the potential for damage to the LC system caused by 'bumps and bruises' inherent in the portability of a notebook. Also, the additional space and power required by the water block, tubing, heatsink (&fan?), and pump would not be easily integrated into the notebook, especially the PB's especially sleek form factor.

Although the release of a PBG5 is highly unlikely, I consider it possible that we might see a new edition of the PB series at the WWDC, although it is still a slim chance, considering the recent release of the upgraded series. I'm planning on purchasing a PB soon, and have decided to hold off until after the WWDC, on the chance that a new line is announced.

In short, It would be sweet to see a PBG5, but don't expect one soon. According to many sources, MacWorld 2005 may hold some promise to see this new machine. There is certainly a chance that a new line of PBs will be announced at the WWDC 2004, but still somewhat slim. I'm planning on holding my breath until the 28th, but I won't be dissapointed if nothing happens.

 

[Photorun]

This should be moved to Page 17 rumors.

 

[El Duderino]

Although the release of a PBG5 is highly unlikely, I consider it possible that we might see a new edition of the PB series at the WWDC, although it is still a slim chance, considering the recent release of the upgraded series.

Give me a 12" G4 tablet and with a SXGA + TFT screen (similar to the one on the Toshiba) and i will be very satisfied

Release a convertible edition of the PowerBook that switches from tablet to laptop form. I'll be content enough with that. If not, I'm waiting until MWSF for the 3 Ghz G5s and buying a Toshiba M205 Tablet PC with a 1.7 Ghz Centrino.

i was talking to the Toshiba rep. at Best Buy yesterday and he told me that they would be releaseing the 1.8 and 2.0 centrino in September/October for the tablet. if apple would just take the guts out of the Toshiba 205 and put in the current 12" PB set-up i would be very happy

in fact, i bet the only thing thats really holding Apple back is creating a tablet edition of OSX

if Apple doesnt come out with or annouce a tablet at WWDC than im getting the Toshiba

 

[pjkelnhofer]

in fact, i bet the only thing thats really holding Apple back is creating a tablet edition of OSX

if Apple doesnt come out with or annouce a tablet at WWDC than im getting the Toshiba

I think that the main thing that is holding back the an Apple tablet is the fact that tablet PC sales are terrible, people aren't buying them (they account for less than 1% of all portable computer sales). I think the niche for tablet is so small that even if Apple could dominate it, it wouldn't help Apple's overall numbers.

from NotebookReview.com
Normally desktop computers outsell notebook computers and hold a 60% market share, while notebooks account for the other 40%. Tablet PCs don't generate enough sales to even capture 1%.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

if Apple doesnt come out with or annouce a tablet at WWDC than im getting the Toshiba

In fact, you can buy right away. There will be no tablet from Apple. And BTW - be happy with your Toshiba.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

In fact, you can buy right away. There will be no tablet from Apple. And BTW - be happy with your Toshiba.

You are correct, sir!
Looking at the Toshiba Tablet, I don't see what is so great about it. The Tablet form factor is interesting, but no Firewire and no optical drive is just plain annoying.

 

[El Duderino]

You are correct, sir!
Looking at the Toshiba Tablet, I don't see what is so great about it. The Tablet form factor is interesting, but no Firewire and no optical drive is just plain annoying.

Have you ever used one or seen it in action? The fact that theres no firewire isnt a big deal, maybe it is if you plan on useing it for video editing, but i have a more than capable desktop for that, this tablet is meant to carry around and take to class for notes etc. Its not a traditional touch pad that you can use your finger to navigate with, it requires a digitized stylus so you can comfortably rest your hand on the screen. As for the optical drive i plan on carrying this convertable in some sort of bag anyway (prolly the Timbuk2 messenger) so throwing the included drive in there isnt a problem. i may be preaching to the wrong crowd here and i really want an Apple but i also want something that will suit my needs the best. i was very close to getting the new 15" PB SD but i changed my ever undecided mind. i still have two weeks before i plan on purchasing a notebook so I'll probably change my mind atleast 5 more times.

 

[hello world]

Here's why there won't be a G5 in a Powerbook:

My brand new 1.33 15" (which I love) is hot as hell all across the hinge. At first I thought that there was something wrong with mine until I went back to the Apple Store and figured out they're all like that. Especially the 12".

Apple hasn't resorted to liquid cooling because it's the latest fad, it's because that G5 is hot. There's no way they could stick one of these in a 1" aluminum case.

The most portable G5 anyone can hope to see is an iMac.

 

[dongmin]

Have you ever used one or seen it in action? The fact that theres no firewire isnt a big deal, maybe it is if you plan on useing it for video editing, but i have a more than capable desktop for that, this tablet is meant to carry around and take to class for notes etc. Its not a traditional touch pad that you can use your finger to navigate with, it requires a digitized stylus so you can comfortably rest your hand on the screen. As for the optical drive i plan on carrying this convertable in some sort of bag anyway (prolly the Timbuk2 messenger) so throwing the included drive in there isnt a problem. i may be preaching to the wrong crowd here and i really want an Apple but i also want something that will suit my needs the best. i was very close to getting the new 15" PB SD but i changed my ever undecided mind. i still have two weeks before i plan on purchasing a notebook so I'll probably change my mind atleast 5 more times.

i sure hope there're more uses for a tablet than just taking notes in class. taking notes on a tablet doesn't seem so particularly efficient to me. typing is more efficient, no? especially with the voice note feature included in the new Word.

also, if a tablet is really to be userful as a tablet, it should be no more than 2/3 the size and thickness of the 12" PB and be half as light. I have ZERO interest in holding my 4.5-lb in one arm and trying to write with another.

so far, no one has come up with the 'killer app' to make tablets really drool-worthy

 

[puckhead193]

I hope they come out with new G5 powerbooks. It makes sense to come out with them at the end of Aug. when college students (like me) will be getting new laptops for school. But apple just upgraded the ibooks and powerbooks. I hope it does happen because i want a 12" powerbook for the size in class but running photoshop/final cut...might be slow... any one try it? And gettinga new G5 and a powerbook will be "kinda" expensive.... even with the student discount...

 

[El Duderino]

i sure hope there're more uses for a tablet than just taking notes in class. taking notes on a tablet doesn't seem so particularly efficient to me. typing is more efficient, no? especially with the voice note feature included in the new Word.

for me thats what i mainly plan on using it for (luckilly ill have about 4-5 years to get my full use out of it) secondly lets say your in a quite conference room for a meeting and the clicking from you keyboard starts to piss people off. also, i dont know about you but i can write a lot faster than i can type. having a tablet gives the ability to draw diagrams or whatever you want for that matter. try that with a keyboard. from there its just a matter of storing it as a file and there you have it, a very organized file cabinet that fits in your hand. and no need to scan to send to a colluege that couldnt make it, just attatch it to an e-mail.

also, if a tablet is really to be userful as a tablet, it should be no more than 2/3 the size and thickness of the 12" PB and be half as light. I have ZERO interest in holding my 4.5-lb in one arm and trying to write with another.

4.4 lbs isnt heavy in the least. if it happens to be a problem for you than i guess you should just work out more and eat your veggies. besides the toshiba rep. at best buy holds his 4.4lb'er for hours without any strain, and hes not exactly a body builder.

sorry for all this to everyone else, i just enjoy argueing with people

P.S. Toshiba also offers a accidental damage warrenty for 3 years for a mear $200, that means when a new model comes out i might happen to accidently drop it and the screen might break causing me to just so happen get a free upgrade

 

[Squire]

Do tablet PCs have a spell checker? Just curious- is what you write saved as a graphic or does it get converted to actual text? (Excuse my ignorance. I've never even used a PDA.)

Squire

 

[volfreak]

TabletPC <> PDA

Do tablet PCs have a spell checker? Just curious- is what you write saved as a graphic or does it get converted to actual text? (Excuse my ignorance. I've never even used a PDA.)

Squire

Tablet PCs are a standard PC in a different form-factor running a slightly different flavor of the WindowOS. So, if one has Word (or any application that provides spell-checking) installed, yes, there is a spell-checker.

Handwritten text can be saved in its hand-written form but there is also handwriting recognition software.

PDA and Tablet PC are two different animals. Think of a tablet PC as a laptop with some extra software for handwriting recognition. PDA is much less than a Tablet PC (though the lines are starting to blur as more capability comes to the handheld market).

Hope this helps.

 

[El Duderino]

Do tablet PCs have a spell checker? Just curious- is what you write saved as a graphic or does it get converted to actual text? (Excuse my ignorance. I've never even used a PDA.)

Squire

yes, anything that you write can be converted by microsoft OneNote (included with all tablet PC's) from there its just a matter of running any type of spell check on it. the only thing you have to worry about is messy handwriteing. i can read my own writeing a lot better than a computer can. there are also training programs that allow you to tweek the software into recognizing your handwriting, much like speak recognition.

 

[jshum9999]

I hope it does happen because i want a 12" powerbook for the size in class but running photoshop/final cut...might be slow... any one try it?.

I got a 15" G4 Powerbook 1.25 Ghz and photoshop and final cut pro run fine on it. Except some playback of the movie you're working on in Final Cut Pro does get choppy and looses frames. Other than that I've been able to use them just fine.

Justin

 

[kerb]

the dual 2.5ghz needs liquid cooling and they are trying to spread a rumour that they can make a 2.2 ghz operable in laptop with a rudimentary ventilation system?

 

[sebisworld]

If this happens I will have to eat my grandma's socks.

BTW: These words are punched into a brand-new Powerbook, which is less than 24 hours old.

 

[macsrus]

If this happens I will have to eat my grandma's socks.

BTW: These words are punched into a brand-new Powerbook, which is less than 24 hours old.

Emm tasty