Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Hector said:
fyi there was no 300MHz g4
I'm pretty sure they announced 350/400/450/500 MHz machines but due to Motorola having problems, had to knock each one back by 50MHz (and kept the same price, tut tut Apple :rolleyes: )

So they got knocked down to 300/350/400/450. The 300 (PCI Yikes!) got dropped when they updated everything to 350/400/450/500 a few months later.

EDIT: Ok, sorry you're right. There were only 3 configs at 400/450/500 which had to be "speed bumped" down to 350/400/450. :eek: :D
 
remingtonhill said:
Florida Gator said:
Hopefully something like this can be released between ]

I work for Apple and talked with an IBM engineer who appeared to have inside information recently (like within the past week.)

He suggested that the 2.5 Ghz bump, with the liquid cooled processors, was really pushing the G5. I asked him about 3 Ghz G5s. He said they were "comming soon." I asked him about G5 Powerbooks. He said "don't hold your breath. He said you should wait "about a year."

I can't validate any of this, and perhaps it may be totally false, but I suspect it's reasonably accurate.

Rem


I think its pretty much settled that I am waiting on the e600/e700 then
 
Majorly disappointed

After the "updates" to the G5s last week, I had every intention of waiting for the 3 Ghz G5s, but I don't know now. 2.5 Ghz at such a high premium? PLUS I'm one of those who has been very patient with Apple over the past four years, so I would also have to buy a new monitor as well. I would have liked to buy a new PowerBook, but I absolutely refuse to buy any Apple product with a Motorola/Freescale processor in it. That division has made me very angry over the past couple of years and I was almost ready to (gulp) switch last year to the dark side. I decided to duke it out with the wait and all for IBM's 3 Ghz milestone; in the interim, I boosted my Pismo to 900 mhz Ghz then 1 Ghz with PowerLogix.

So, what to expect from WWDC???
Apple knows that laptop sales, for the first time last month, have surpassed that of desktop sales. I've been meaning to put together a 3D/DVD project together for the past three years; in light of the recent events, I'm going to post-pone that. Why?

Take a look at this:
pb11-fcp.gif


Well now you say, why not buy another PowerBook?! PLEASE!:
pvp-ae.gif


And...:
al15-pc.gif


http://www.barefeats.com/image04/al15-pc2.gif

So, there you go. What can Apple do to save face at the WWDC later this month and get me to buy one of their products for the first time since fall of 2000?
Release a convertible edition of the PowerBook that switches from tablet to laptop form. I'll be content enough with that. If not, I'm waiting until MWSF for the 3 Ghz G5s and buying a Toshiba M205 Tablet PC with a 1.7 Ghz Centrino. :D
 
utilizer said:
After the "updates" to the G5s last week, I had every intention of waiting for the 3 Ghz G5s, but I don't know now. 2.5 Ghz at such a high premium?

What premium is that? You get a 25% boost in processor clock at the same cost, with a far better stock graphics card and the option on one that's far better than the previous BTO. Overall, the line refresh was a bit disappointing and lackluster, but it was still a solid update that brings performance gains.

Name me a PC chipmaker that's climbed 25% in a year, other than the Pentium M (which got its boost from a die shrink).

I would have liked to buy a new PowerBook, but I absolutely refuse to buy any Apple product with a Motorola/Freescale processor in it.

Then you're as blind as people typically accuse mac users of being, because Freescale is already delivering on their promises. The e300 and e500 are shipping to customers as we speak, both of them new designs, and one of them an entirely new core. IBM's given us something after almost a year, and that's both good to see and higher than any Motorola clock jump I can remember.

However, Freescale is not the same company as Motorola's semiconducter segment. They're under different management and operating independently, so you can't really make any claims about them that don't start with the reorganization.

That division has made me very angry over the past couple of years and I was almost ready to (gulp) switch last year to the dark side.

Uh... Then why do you say that you're "waiting until MWSF for the 3 Ghz G5s and buying a Toshiba M205 Tablet PC with a 1.7 Ghz Centrino?"

So, what to expect from WWDC???
Apple knows that laptop sales, for the first time last month, have surpassed that of desktop sales. I've been meaning to put together a 3D/DVD project together for the past three years; in light of the recent events, I'm going to post-pone that. Why?

...

A bunch of benchmarks that show that dekstops kill laptops in professional apps

Were you trying to make a point with this? The PowerBook doesn't perform as well as the desktop machines in professional tasks that are SMP-aware. Why is that a surprise? It's a matter of raw power, which a portable basically has to sacrifice in order to conserve battery power.

The Final Cut bench shows that dual-processor machines of both generations beat a portable single-processor at rendering. Well... Duh. Similarly, After Effects (which is poorly written and maintained on the mac), hands the speed crown to dual processor machines - G4 duals beat the single G5s. Duh. I'm not at all certain what a UT2003 botmatch has to do with a professional machine, but the comparison is between mobile processors, and the ones that are powerhogging desktop replacement chips win. Uh... Duh, again. Finally, in the Cinebench render, you don't even have the most current revision of the PowerBook. Extrapolate the difference between the two G4s, though, and you'd come up with a final score of a 1.5ghz G4 generating the render in 186 seconds with no change in the support system. However, this doesn't reflect the new 5400 RPM drives and better GPU, which both could impact render times. So, once more... Duh.
 
Oh, and for comparison:

Toshiba M205:
Intel Pentium M 1.7ghz
XP Tablet Edition
512 MB PC2700 (2x256)
12.1" SXGA Display
60GB 5400RPM
GeForce FX 5200 32MB
No optical
Intel PROWireless 802.11g
Bluetooth
External USB 2.0 CD-RW/DVD-ROM
Norton AntiVirus 2004

Cost: $2,528

Pros: You can twist your screen around
Cons: No XP Pro, small screen, no iLife-like software, it's Windows to begin with, not only 5200FX, but one with a mere 32MB

Apple PowerBook 15"
1.5ghz MPC7447A
OSX 10.3
512MB PC2700 (2x256)
80GB 5400RPM
SuperDrive
Radeon 9700 Mobile 128MB
Airport Extreme
Bluetooth
iLife

Cost: $2,599

Pros: Widescreen is larger, OS X, iLife, better graphics card, superior and internal optical, larger HD
Cons: Slightly weaker processor
 
thatwendigo said:
Pros: You can twist your screen around
Cons: No XP Pro, small screen, no iLife-like software, it's Windows to begin with, not only 5200FX, but one with a mere 32MB

Windows XP Tablet PC Edition is Windows XP Pro but with tablet pc functions supported. It has all the features of Pro, not home. :)
 
hi_im_rob said:
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition is Windows XP Pro but with tablet pc functions supported. It has all the features of Pro, not home. :)

I stand corrected, then.

From the Tablet Edition FAQ:

Q3: What does Windows XP Tablet PC Edition include that Microsoft Windows XP Professional does not?

A3: As of November 2002, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition includes everything that is available in Windows XP Professional, and the following additional features:

* Pen Input: Tablet PCs include digital pens that you use to control the computer and to write text in your own handwriting.
* Tablet PC Input Panel: Input Panel is an on-screen keyboard and writing pad. With Input Panel, you can type text without your standard keyboard.
* Microsoft Windows Journal: Windows Journal turns your Tablet PC into a writing pad.
* Microsoft Sticky Notes: You can use Sticky Notes to create and manage short handwritten or voice notes in the same way you would keep a stack of paper sticky notes.
* Handwriting Recognition and Conversion: You can write in your own handwriting, and then convert it to typed text.
* Speech Recognition: Tablet PCs have built-in speech-recognition capabilities.
* Document Annotation: You can annotate imported documents with a Tablet PC pen.
* Reading: Your Tablet PC uses Microsoft ClearType technology and a high-resolution display.
* Screen Rotation: You can quickly rotate your screen for landscape or portrait viewing.
* Gestures: You can use your Tablet PC pen to make "gestures", which are movements with the pen that complete common tasks.​
 
utilizer said:
After the "updates" to the G5s last week, I had every intention of waiting for the 3 Ghz G5s, but I don't know now. 2.5 Ghz at such a high premium?

High premium? You're getting a new system for the exact same cost as the 2.0 GHz G5s were, with 2x500 MHz boost in processor power as well as other updates (8x SuperDrive, better video card, liquid cooling system) - I'd like to know what "premium" this is. Is a DP 2.5 GHz G5 system inadeqauet to meet your needs?

utilizer said:
I would have liked to buy a new PowerBook, but I absolutely refuse to buy any Apple product with a Motorola/Freescale processor in it.

Um, so now instead of an extremely powerful DP 2.5 GHz G5 desktop which you seem to have stated does not meet your 3 GHz requirements, you've changed your mind and are saying you want a less-powerful laptop instead? Which is it?

utilizer said:
I decided to duke it out with the wait and all for IBM's 3 Ghz milestone

If you told yourself you would wait until the 3 GHz milestone then why are you not simply still waiting? And are you waiting for IBM's 3 GHz milestone, or Apple incoroprating the 3 GHz G5 into a PowerMac? For all we know, IBM has already acheived the 3 GHz milestone and the current issues reside in incorporating the technology into an actual machine. (I realize this is not the case, but you see my point.)

utilizer said:
Take a look at this:
pb11-fcp.gif


Well now you say, why not buy another PowerBook?! PLEASE!:
pvp-ae.gif


And...:
al15-pc.gif


http://www.barefeats.com/image04/al15-pc2.gif

What is your point? The PowerBooks don't perform as well as the PowerMacs in professional tasks - does this come as a surprise? The DP 2.0 GHz G5 wins on the pro tests, as it should - it decimates the other systems, yet you seem hesitant on picking up a DP 2.5 GHz system which is superior - why? And are you wanting a desktop or a laptop?

Lastly, why the hell did you throw a UT2003 botmatch benchmark in there? Are you trying to compare pro apps or games? The comparison is between mobile chips, not desktop chips, and of course the "wattage-intensive" chips win...

utilizer said:
Release a convertible edition of the PowerBook that switches from tablet to laptop form. I'll be content enough with that. If not, I'm waiting until MWSF for the 3 Ghz G5s and buying a Toshiba M205 Tablet PC with a 1.7 Ghz Centrino. :D

So the DP 2.5 GHz G5s release isn't adequate for you because it is at a "premium" and is not 3 GHz (which is obviously what you require). So then you talk about getting a PowerBook, but show how it gets beaten on Pro tests designed for desktops not laptops, like this is some big surprise and shocker, and then throw in a UT2003 benchmark for, what, exactly? And now you're thinking of buying a Centrino system? :confused:
 
thatwendigo said:
Hey, Shard... You could have just said 'ditto' to my post. ;)

I guess I did end up restating most of what you had already said, but hey, it's the truth, so what am I supposed to do! Plus, whereas you focused more on the technical issues and facts in replying, I more questioned the poster's actual logic and thought process in the whole matter - since I'm a bastard, it's adds more of that personal touch that way. :cool:

What can I say though? Great minds think alike... hmm, and how does the rest of that phrase go?.... ;) :cool:
 
Double-team

~Shard~ said:
... Plus, whereas you focused more on the technical issues and facts in replying, I more questioned the poster's actual logic and thought process in the whole matter - since I'm a bastard, it's adds more of that personal touch that way. :cool:

Actually, when I read the post for the first time I thought, Man, thatwendigo is gonna be all over this. And sure enough...
I was quite confused over a few of the points, too, ~Shard. Maybe utilizer can come back and sort of re-state what he/she meant in a clearer way.

Squire
 
remingtonhill said:
Florida Gator said:
Hopefully something like this can be released between ]

I work for Apple and talked with an IBM engineer who appeared to have inside information recently (like within the past week.)

He suggested that the 2.5 Ghz bump, with the liquid cooled processors, was really pushing the G5. I asked him about 3 Ghz G5s. He said they were "comming soon." I asked him about G5 Powerbooks. He said "don't hold your breath. He said you should wait "about a year."

I can't validate any of this, and perhaps it may be totally false, but I suspect it's reasonably accurate.

Rem

Not that I don't believe that you either work for Apple or talked to some one from IBM, but why would an IBM engineer have any idea when Apple was going to put the G5 into a PowerBook? Wouldn't that be something that it all about Apple's engineers figuring out how to handle the heat? Once IBM ships the chips isn't it up to Apple to do what they want with them?
 
pjkelnhofer said:
Not that I don't believe that you either work for Apple or talked to some one from IBM, but why would an IBM engineer have any idea when Apple was going to put the G5 into a PowerBook? Wouldn't that be something that it all about Apple's engineers figuring out how to handle the heat? Once IBM ships the chips isn't it up to Apple to do what they want with them?

The engineer might have worked on the G5 (and the newer revisions). He might know exactly how hot the 2.5 GHz G5 runs, and how soon there will be a 3 GHz G5. He might be working on the laptop G5 chip, and he would then know how far behind it is in production.

If Apple needs to use liquid cooling for the 2.5 GHz G5 (whereas not for the 2.0 GHz processors and below), I would say the 2.5 GHz machine is in fact pushing it.
 
wide said:
The engineer might have worked on the G5 (and the newer revisions). He might know exactly how hot the 2.5 GHz G5 runs, and how soon there will be a 3 GHz G5. He might be working on the laptop G5 chip, and he would then know how far behind it is in production.

If Apple needs to use liquid cooling for the 2.5 GHz G5 (whereas not for the 2.0 GHz processors and below), I would say the 2.5 GHz machine is in fact pushing it.

I believe that the 2.5GHz chips is certainly pushing the top speed of the 970FX. I am not sure that it "needs" liquid cooling though, I wonder if Apple is just playing it safe and getting ready for the future chips that will truly require it.

On the PB front, as of right now, the 970/970FX is the only "G5" chip that exists (at least that have ever been made public). If it is a question of getting a 970FX into a PowerBook, then I do not see how IBM would have much knowledge of Apple's progress. If IBM is working a new "mobile" version of the G5 for PB's, that would be pretty big news.
 
wide said:
The engineer might have worked on the G5 (and the newer revisions). He might know exactly how hot the 2.5 GHz G5 runs, and how soon there will be a 3 GHz G5. He might be working on the laptop G5 chip, and he would then know how far behind it is in production.

If Apple needs to use liquid cooling for the 2.5 GHz G5 (whereas not for the 2.0 GHz processors and below), I would say the 2.5 GHz machine is in fact pushing it.


Hey, for all I know the guy could have been BSing me. I don't know how much informaton he had specifically to the developement of G5s. He may have been basing his statements on rumors around IBM, Inc., rather then first hand knowledge.

I suspect that liquid cooling a 2.5 G5 was probably more a requirement rather then as a test run for faster processors. That cooling system must add cost to each machine, which cuts into apple's profits.

I would love to see a PB G5. I might even sacrafice to buy one of those bad boys. (not because I need all that power - because it would be damn cool! (not literally thoug.))

Seems we may have to wait though....


Rem
 
I'm back!

Squire said:
Actually, when I read the post for the first time I thought, Man, thatwendigo is gonna be all over this. And sure enough...
I was quite confused over a few of the points, too, ~Shard. Maybe utilizer can come back and sort of re-state what he/she meant in a clearer way.

Squire

Hey all...I was just playing "devil's advocate" here. (Me mad at Apple for breaking a silly promise?! Check my earlier posts last week in a different thread, where I'm calming everybody else down!) I've got a bunch of GA Tech computer science majors who just made the silly points I outlined here. Everything you guys pointed out matched what I thought (and judging by the posts of Squire and thatwendigo we're all right on the same page). The bash at Moto, however, was true though and I took your point in with some sensible thought put into it and know you're right. The other thing that I want Apple to do is definitely make a convertible notebook; not so much that it's required, but absolutely without a doubt, where we're headed in this market. The low-end config of the G5s, I just bought on Sunday with the brilliant savings promo (23 in. LCD), plus some other goodies, to total at $5,337.80, which I think is a pretty damn good deal, considering this is going to be a leap in performance over my Pismo.
But these guys, computer science majors nonetheless, talk up efficiency of chips and not performance. They can drive you crazy with evidence that contradicts every point that they made before with the hard facts out there, and that was the point I was trying to illustrate (and also to validate that I'm not crazy and neither are you guys!) :p Keep in mind that these are the same guys that still think that the iPod is still Mac only and the only feasible alternative is the iRiver. :eek:
As I've said before, it's a scary thought that these are the guys that will one day run the computer world!
Anyways, let the battle continue.
 
utilizer said:
Everything you guys pointed out matched what I thought (and judging by the posts of Squire and thatwendigo we're all right on the same page).

Well, actually, I was just making comments on what thatwendigo and ~Shard stated. I didn't really bring anything new to the discussion. ;)

The bash at Moto, however, was true though and I took your point in with some sensible thought put into it and know you're right.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing what these folks at Freescale have to offer. In fact, after hearing what thatwendigo has had to say (and it's been a lot over the past few months ;)), I'm a little bit hesitant about my imminent 12" PowerBook purchase. Frankly, the Freescale chip sounds like the better solution.

The other thing that I want Apple to do is definitely make a convertible notebook; not so much that it's required, but absolutely without a doubt, where we're headed in this market.

Personally, it would not be the machine of choice ...but to each his own.

The low-end config of the G5s, I just bought on Sunday with the brilliant savings promo (23 in. LCD), plus some other goodies, to total at $5,337.80, which I think is a pretty damn good deal, considering this is going to be a leap in performance over my Pismo.

Was that the new Power Mac G5 you got with that? I was under the impression that it was the displays plus the old G5s. (Of course, they're out of my league so I didn't read the fine print.)


But these guys, computer science majors nonetheless, talk up efficiency of chips and not performance. They can drive you crazy with evidence that contradicts every point that they made before with the hard facts out there, and that was the point I was trying to illustrate (and also to validate that I'm not crazy and neither are you guys!) :p Keep in mind that these are the same guys that still think that the iPod is still Mac only and the only feasible alternative is the iRiver. :eek:
As I've said before, it's a scary thought that these are the guys that will one day run the computer world!
Anyways, let the battle continue.

Well, my best friend- the guy who helps me with all of my PC problems- was floored when I told him that there was MS Office for Mac. He's one of those guys considering a Mac purchase (largely due to GarageBand) but who still sees numerous compatibility issues. I admitted that there are some but that, for the most part, the compatibility thing is a myth.

Anyway, time to hit the sack.

Squire
 
There's something Very Wrong with the G5

Even at 90nm the G5 hasn't progressed in a year. The PowerMacs are running at the same speeds now as they were a year ago.

Yeah, sure, 2.5, but you could have watercooled the machines announced at WWDC last year to get to 2.5.

So the only way they could have a Powerbook G5 would be to have a completely new G5 processor.

I'm sure it's in the works, but if it was ready they would not have released the G5 with watercooler a month earlier, not shipping until afterwards. That's like saying Chewbacca lives on Endor.

One day we will have non-watercooled 3.0GHz G5's and then we'll have the PowerBook, but it's not ready. Think it through.

Don't fret, though; when the G4 came out it was "too hot to ever make it into a Powerbook", as I write this on an iBook G4 clocked 3x higher than the first G4 Desktop.
 
ClimbingTheLog said:
Even at 90nm the G5 hasn't progressed in a year. The PowerMacs are running at the same speeds now as they were a year ago.

Yeah, sure, 2.5, but you could have watercooled the machines announced at WWDC last year to get to 2.5.
You are wrong here, the change from 130nm to 90nm was a progression and it took place in the past year (the 970FX didn't come out until January). I don't think the 130nm PPC970 would have been able to run at 2.5GHz no matter how they cooled it.

So the only way they could have a Powerbook G5 would be to have a completely new G5 processor.
And...? The first version of the G4 (the PPC7400) never made it into PowerBooks either. They had to wait for the PPC7410 to come out about 14 months later. I believe the 970FX could be designed to fit into a PB, but it would have to run at a reduced speed (maybe 1.2 to 1.6 GHz). Apple is probably better off waiting for a "mobile" version of the G5, be it from Freescale or IBM, to upgrade the PB to G5.

I'm sure it's in the works, but if it was ready they would not have released the G5 with watercooler a month earlier, not shipping until afterwards. That's like saying Chewbacca lives on Endor.
When does Apple ever have anything ready to ship at the announcement? Very rarely.

One day we will have non-watercooled 3.0GHz G5's and then we'll have the PowerBook, but it's not ready. Think it through.

Don't fret, though; when the G4 came out it was "too hot to ever make it into a Powerbook", as I write this on an iBook G4 clocked 3x higher than the first G4 Desktop.
I don't think that anyone doubts that the PB will get the G5 and start to achieve higher speeds. The question is simply when, and how long will people wait around for it.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
I don't think that anyone doubts that the PB will get the G5 and start to achieve higher speeds. The question is simply when, and how long will people wait around for it.

To rephrase: I think the question is how many people will still be interested in buying a Mac when they finally get around to introducing it.

I won't get into a big argument about whether Apple is on top of their game when it comes to hardware introductions (they are not). But I am terribly concerned that their lack of exciting new hardware (across the line) is causing their microscopic marketshare to become . . . well, even more microscopic. As an Apple computer buyer since 1982, I've never been more concerned for the health of the OS as I am today -- which is ironic since I love OSX, the company is very profitable, has more money in the bank, and its share price is very healthy. Yet, all my Macs are three years old or older, and I have absolutely no interest in upgrading to any of the current products.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
You are wrong here, the change from 130nm to 90nm was a progression and it took place in the past year (the 970FX didn't come out until January). I don't think the 130nm PPC970 would have been able to run at 2.5GHz no matter how they cooled it.

What facts do you base this on? In the PC world it's quite common to overclock by that kind of percentage with a watercooler. Here's a random link of a guy overclocking a P4 2.4 to 3.0 with a watercooler:

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cooling/Swiftech_H20-8500_6.html

In fact, for years, in the industry, people have been running machines at very fast speeds with extreme cooling solutions. Heck, some Crays back in the 80's had their entire boards emersed in coolant.

Getting better speed out of CPU's with watercooling is the historical norm; you have to show why the G5 would perform differently than every other CPU. Maybe there's a reason, but I don't see where you've proven it.

pjkelnhofer said:
And...? The first version of the G4 (the PPC7400) never made it into PowerBooks either.

Umm... yeah, that's what I said.
 
Try some video.

numediaman said:
Yet, all my Macs are three years old or older, and I have absolutely no interest in upgrading to any of the current products.

Start making DVD's. :)

That's what got me to jump from my B&W G3 to an iBook G4. It was fine for most things, but Toast ran MPEG-2 at about 1.6 minutes of video per hour of compression on the G3; on the 1.2GHz G4 it's about 15 minutes of video per hour of compression (high quality). That's about 9x faster in real terms.

Of course everything else feels faster, which is nice. iMovie transitions run about that much faster too, which speeds up the editing process. All in all a good value.
 
ClimbingTheLog said:
What facts do you base this on? In the PC world it's quite common to overclock by that kind of percentage with a watercooler. Here's a random link of a guy overclocking a P4 2.4 to 3.0 with a watercooler:

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cooling/Swiftech_H20-8500_6.html

In fact, for years, in the industry, people have been running machines at very fast speeds with extreme cooling solutions. Heck, some Crays back in the 80's had their entire boards emersed in coolant.

Getting better speed out of CPU's with watercooling is the historical norm; you have to show why the G5 would perform differently than every other CPU. Maybe there's a reason, but I don't see where you've proven it.
We are getting back into the definition of "overclocking". I personally do not think that Apple is taking chips that IBM is rating as 2.0GHz and ramping them up to run at 2.5GHz. In fact, I believe that this process is illegal, and the companies have gotten in trouble for it in the past. I think that IBM is managing to produce a small percentage of PPC970FX chips that are capable of running at 2.5GHz and is rating them as such. If IBM is giving chips to Apple and telling them they can run at 2.5GHz, Apple is not "overclocking" them using watercooling, they are simply trying to find a way to deal with the heat produced by a chip running at that speed.

My only proof that IBM couldn't get the 130nm PPC970's to run at 2.5GHz is the simply fact that there are no PPC970's running at 2.5GHz. I realize this proves nothing, but if you find some one running a PPC970 at these speeds I will believe it.

Umm... yeah, that's what I said.
I guess that you header There's something Very Wrong with the G5 didn't seem to match your conclusion that we should just be patient and wait for the next generation G5.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
I personally do not think that Apple is taking chips that IBM is rating as 2.0GHz and ramping them up to run at 2.5GHz. In fact, I believe that this process is illegal, and the companies have gotten in trouble for it in the past.

Apple was doing this with Motorola G4's before the G5 came out. What law were they breaking?

pjkelnhofer said:
I think that IBM is managing to produce a small percentage of PPC970FX chips that are capable of running at 2.5GHz and is rating them as such. If IBM is giving chips to Apple and telling them they can run at 2.5GHz, Apple is not "overclocking" them using watercooling, they are simply trying to find a way to deal with the heat produced by a chip running at that speed.

You're splitting hairs. A CPU can 'run' at a given speed when it is accurate inside a given performance envelope. Typically this envelope is defined by heat, in the case of modern CPU's.

You can't say a chip is rated at 2.5GHz without specifying the operating conditions. If you put no cooler on it, it would probably melt itself. If you put aircoolers on it, it would probably give errors. If you put a watercooler on it, it would run OK.

So a watercooled 2.5 is different than an aircooled 2.5. Do you see that point?

Now, you can take an aircooled part at a given speed and run it at a much higher speed by changing its cooling method. You're changing the number of BTU's that can be dissipated by the chip, so you're changing the operating conditions, so the ratings are no longer meaningful.

pjkelnhofer said:
My only proof that IBM couldn't get the 130nm PPC970's to run at 2.5GHz is the simply fact that there are no PPC970's running at 2.5GHz. I realize this proves nothing, but if you find some one running a PPC970 at these speeds I will believe it.

They're not likely to run that fast with aircooling. It would take watercooling to run them that fast, that's what I was getting at. Apple just came out with a watercooler and it hasn't shipped yet.

I suspect somebody will now take their stock G5 2.0 and try putting an aftermarket watercooler on it. The tolerances are very important, so it might be hard to find one to fit unless the G5 package just happens to be the same size as a PC chip package. Someone with access to a university engineering lab could also fabricate an appropriate fastener.

pjkelnhofer said:
I guess that you header There's something Very Wrong with the G5 didn't seem to match your conclusion that we should just be patient and wait for the next generation G5.

Huh? That was exactly the point.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.