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Bargain basement processor --

-- in terms of complexity. Or so I am told by hardware geeks.

Skipped into this page after first several. I know folks have suggested checking in with CNET story. The latest says the demos ARE running on Apple machines and M$oft has admitted that.

http://news.com.com/Xbox+360+demos+...3-5706658.html?part=rss&tag=5706658&subj=news

The story also puts this into the usual M$oft FUD perspective. They hope to be able to deliver for the Xmas market. Which usually means [1] if they show up on time, there will be problems -- and [2] that's a big IF.
 
The Emporer has foreseen a 3 Ghz G5 dual dual core with 1000 Mhz DDR2 at WWDC. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
 
Do your homework first guys

This link is for all the people who are just commenting because they feel that MS is the devil and they want to talk endless **** about the next XBOX. http://www.gamespot.com/features/6124293/p-3.html. Do not get me wrong though I appreciate all the people who actually know what they are talking about because even though I already knew the information that they posted its nice to see an informed educated comment.

And for all the people saying that shouldn't Apple get the new tech first two things ( I didnt read a few of the middle pages of this thread so it might have already been posted). The chip design is owned by MS not IBM. MS contracted IBM to design the chip but thats all they did they do not own or fabricate the chip hence how MS plans to keep all their cost down its the same for the graphics card and all the other components. They obviously did this because of bad taste that was left in their mouth after the whole NVIDIA hoopla.

For the guy who said its one processor umm you should really figure out what your talking about before posting. It's three cores on one die, 1 core on one die = 1 processor, 3 cores on one die = 3 processors, not to mention the fact that since it processes 2 threads parrallel (I believe its parrallel correct me if I'm wrong) the argument could be made that it is actually 6 proccesors. However I'm not sure if 2 threads are both calculated at 3.2 ghz each or each thread is calculated at 1.6 ghz. As far as the 48 pipelines go....no there is not 24 pipelines your flat out wrong but what you are right about is the fact I'd be willing to bet it functions much like a dedicated 24 pipe card but the fact is there is actually 48 pipelines. The reason I think that it might run like a 24 pipe card is that since the card processes vertex and pixels through the same line instead of having dedicated pipes for each I'd be willing to bet its not as good as a dedicated pipe for each more like 1/2 the power but hopefully more god willing 150% the power of a dedicated pipe.

As far as cost go hopefully the rumors circulating are true that it will run 299. As far as the graphics for the games go I know that they will be great and much better looking than the current generation however currently I dont think it shows. This is obviously due to the fact that they are first gen title's, I'd be willing to bet alot of developers are first focusing on just getting games to work on the platform much the way sega did when it popped nfl 2k2 onto the next gen consoles of the time. Sadly the game looked much like a dreamcast port with a few graphical improvements and a more stable fps. This is what Tony Hawk and the new Tiger Woods games looked like. Both of those games could have been totally done on current gen consoles from what I saw on MTV. But when developers have had the time to create new more powerful engines that take advantage of the hardware Tiger Woods should be able to have all completely rendered blades of grass if nothing else. The only argument that could have been made for Tony Hawk was that supposedly the entire LA is set in, no loads. But a simple Halo or Metroid system of loading in the background could have easily accomplished this without any notice with this much power.

I also dont see the current beautiful games as any test of the systems power. The fact that the Doom 3 engine runs in full glory no hinderance does not really impress me. It will provide much better just remember that these things have to stay competitive visually for 5 yrs as great as Doom 3 looks it wont be able to hold a candle to the next great engine at the end of this console life cycle ( Remember we all thought Half- Life looked great when it came out now we laugh at it, fortunately I think todays cutting edge is so great looking it will never be laughable or even close, thank you John Carmack). And remember this all easily attainable because 2 things, the system has incredible power, but most importantly a game console doesnt have to worry about anything else at all there arent OS'es running windows or os x for that matter in the background so every drop of rescource is dedicated to what is on your screen. (I sure hope including media center functionality is the beggining of a trend that would basically be like an os) And that is where consoles processing strength is and why they are able to at least stay competitive at the end of a life cycle.

Well sorry for the long post but hope it got some things cleared up....hope to see you out there in xbox 360 land ******** on longhorn (aka longwait os since its never going to come out at this rate) with me lol. Any corrections please let me know
 
joeboy_45101 said:
I don't care what type of PowerPC CPU this thing is running, it still has a Microsoft Operating System. And we all know what a cracker jack job Microsoft does with Operating Systems...

This whole thread has done nothing but to lure the slimy Apple hating Microsoft butt-kissing people out from under their rocks...

Who cares what OS you or I am using. I mean it's nobody's business but your own what type of software you use...

Slimy Apple hating Microsoft butt-kissing people? I think this one line firmly shows that you really do care if someone is using Apple or Microsoft.

Why is it wrong to criticise Apple? Why is it wrong to offer praise to a company when they do something well?

The Powermacs haven't lived up to some of the promises in terms of speed, - to say this isn't to "hate" Apple, it's stating a fact. Microsoft do make good hardware - how many of us are using Microsoft mice or own an Xbox? Again, to say this isn't to butt-kiss, it's merely stating a fact.

Lastly, it's a games console, who has ever really spent time worrying about what OS a console utilises? As long as it doesn't crash then it's something the vast majority of people wouldn't even consider.

I can really see why some people call it the "Cult of Apple".
 
cheekyspanky said:
Slimy Apple hating Microsoft butt-kissing people? I think this one line firmly shows that you really do care if someone is using Apple or Microsoft.
.

No, I really don't care what computer or OS people use. My statement could be used for any instance Slimy <Insert favorite Company, Product, or Person> hating <Insert least favorite Company, Product, or Person> butt-kissing people. I could have said it like this: Slimy Microsoft hating Apple butt-kissing people, or Slimy Porsche hating Honda butt-kissing people, and even Slimy Steven Hawking hating Carl Sagan butt-kissing people.

I find it slimy for somebody to come onto a Mac user board and spout nonsense about how crappy Apple is and how wonderful Microsoft is. I also believe that these slimy creatures must live under rocks and love the taste of butt. :rolleyes:
 
Peyote said:
No worries! I think you do know a lot about this subject, and it should be pointed out that the Xbox processor is NOT a G5....I'm just glad that you can see that you were rude peviously...that's more than most can do.


Thanks. I've made a fool of myself countless times in real life by talking too much. I guess it's experience, lol. :(
 
joeboy_45101 said:
I find it slimy for somebody to come onto a Mac user board and spout nonsense about how crappy Apple is and how wonderful Microsoft is. I also believe that these slimy creatures must live under rocks and love the taste of butt. :rolleyes:

People aren't making a special visit to this site to praise Microsoft and criticise Apple. This is one thread out of thousands where Microsoft get some praise instead of criticism.

To top it all, the praise is aimed towards a division of Microsoft that Apple doesn't even compete in.

Why do you have such a problem with that?
 
shadowguy said:
Nintendos Revolution is rumored to run on a custom 4 core G5 running at 2.5Ghz each.

Xbox 360 is supposed to run with the R500 video card, while the Revolution is supposed to be running an R520. The Revolution will be a lot better, power wise, than the Xbox 360.
Rev is gonna be 1" thick the size of 3 dvd cases, no way it out powers 360.

anyway these specs are real, but its not a G5 class CPU.. it is custom for games.
 
Only skimmed the first 13 pages, but...

Did anybody catch this part?

The console will come with a 20GB detachable and upgradeable hard drive and a 12x dual-layer DVD drive that reads DVD, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-R/RW, WMA and MP3, among other formats. It will also stream media from other Windows XP-based PCs, Microsoft said.

Two comments:

First, it sucks that the 20GB drive is default. Please tell me you can buy a larger drive at purchase time and don't have to throw away a 20G drive. This sounds like common sense but I could totally see MS screwing us.

Second, what does "other XP-based PCs" mean? First of all, I think thats a stupid feature and I will happily never use it, but does this imply that Xbox 360 runs on XP? CNET is a pretty lousy source, so maybe a nontechnical person made an innocent mistake, but I will certainly not buy a 360 if its running XP or any stripped down version. The original ran an NT kernel with DirectX, and it has always seemed rock solid to me. XP is the opposite, though.
 
Engagebot said:
Because more cpus doesn't necessarliy mean more power. You have to have software very specifically written to support that kind of threading. You cant just slap 10 processors together and be 10x faster.

I don't know what you mean. Any subprocess or thread can be delegated to another CPU by the OS. The application doesn't need to know anything except when it would be prudent to spawn a subprocess or new thread. In Cocoa this is braindead, in Carbon and Foundation its pretty easy. The only reasons why 10 processors doesn't mean 10x increase is because 1) overhead and 2) potential for thread interlock. The first is relatively fixed for a given number of processors, but fortunately the efficiency is very high because processor designers are typically very gifted engineers. The second only applies to complex applications which need to synchronize access to resources shared between threads. An SQL server is a good example...but not a typical user space application.
 
jeffbax said:
Rev is gonna be 1" thick the size of 3 dvd cases, no way it out powers 360.


Same thickness as the PSTwo.

(EDIT: Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't 3 DVD cases 1.5 inches? Thats even bigger.)

Why can't it be more powerful? GameCube vs PS2, which was bigger and which was more powerful?

The Rev is coming considerably later unless they bump up the schedule so it should be more powerful.

Now, I could be completely wrong. Nobody knows till it comes out. But I would personally guess the last to come out would be the most powerful... :confused: Unless Nintendo goes budget again.
 
The detachable Hard drive is like memory card detachable so I wouldn't really worry about it being a throw away its not like its on the inside of the xbox. It's on the top and looks to be able to be popped on and off making it very easy to interchange two hard drives. However 20gb is quite a bit for game saves and soundtracks unless your going to actually use this thing as a media center PC then I dont think you will even come close to denting the space open on this thing. If you do have that intent though I bet that unfortunately you'd be forced to have two maybe one for game data the other for stored media such as photos
 
Hiroshige said:
The Emporer has foreseen a 3 Ghz G5 dual dual core with 1000 Mhz DDR2 at WWDC. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

^ Post of the year!

this WILL happen too..watch..Jobs may be a jerk sometimes and oftimes promise too much but WWDC is gonna be THE gig of the year for Apple
;)

Apple will rule and still does..
 
Things are starting to make sense for me. Microsoft bought Virtual PC. Now they have the code to translate x86 software to work on PPC hardware... They might have seen this coming, xbox360 using different architecture. I'm sure there is more than enough juice from those 3 cores to emulate a 733MHz P3. Backwards compatibility will make or break the xbox, look at the PS2 for example, backwards compatibility kept developers happy, as current games could continue development and still be played on the new systems, which kept them happy, and eventually started making PS2 games. I hope the same will apply to xbox 360.

I really just wanna play Halo 3, and don't care which system it's on. That cliffhanger at the end of Halo 2 pissed me off.....
 
:eek: Oh no! Now my Dual 2.7GHz PowerMac is crap compared to the XBox!!

:rolleyes:
C'mon, people. This doesn't mean our macs are anything more or anything less than they were a week ago.
And you have to admit, the specs for the 360 look great and the possibilities look even better. Without a doubt it is going to be a great system. And anyways, it isn't going to be released before WWDC, so what's everybody so worried about? By the time the 360 is released there will already be newer/faster procs for Macs.
On the otherside, Sony and Nintendo still have plenty of months to work on their systems (that hopefully we'll see more of in E3 than those stupid 60 seconds we saw on MTV of the 360). I have my bets on the PS3 with its BluRay and game titles. We'll find out soon enough...
 
SurfAddict said:
This link is for all the people who are just commenting because they feel that MS is the devil and they want to talk endless **** about the next XBOX. http://www.gamespot.com/features/6124293/p-3.html. Do not get me wrong though I appreciate all the people who actually know what they are talking about because even though I already knew the information that they posted its nice to see an informed educated comment. And for all the people saying that shouldn't Apple get the new tech first two things ( I didnt read a few of the middle pages of this thread so it might have already been posted). The chip design is owned by MS not IBM. MS contracted IBM to design the chip but thats all they did they do not own or fabricate the chip hence how MS plans to keep all their cost down its the same for the graphics card and all the other components. They obviously did this because of bad taste that was left in their mouth after the whole NVIDIA hoopla. For the guy who said its one processor umm you should really figure out what your talking about before posting. It's three cores on one die, 1 core on one die = 1 processor, 3 cores on one die = 3 processors, not to mention the fact that since it processes 2 threads parrallel (I believe its parrallel correct me if I'm wrong) the argument could be made that it is actually 6 proccesors. However I'm not sure if 2 threads are both calculated at 3.2 ghz each or each thread is calculated at 1.6 ghz. As far as the 48 pipelines go....no there is not 24 pipelines your flat out wrong but what you are right about is the fact I'd be willing to bet it functions much like a dedicated 24 pipe card but the fact is there is actually 48 pipelines. The reason I think that it might run like a 24 pipe card is that since the card processes vertex and pixels through the same line instead of having dedicated pipes for each I'd be willing to bet its not as good as a dedicated pipe for each more like 1/2 the power but hopefully more god willing 150% the power of a dedicated pipe. As far as cost go hopefully the rumors circulating are true that it will run 299. As far as the graphics for the games go I know that they will be great and much better looking than the current generation however currently I dont think it shows. This is obviously due to the fact that they are first gen title's, I'd be willing to bet alot of developers are first focusing on just getting games to work on the platform much the way sega did when it popped nfl 2k2 onto the next gen consoles of the time. Sadly the game looked much like a dreamcast port with a few graphical improvements and a more stable fps. This is what Tony Hawk and the new Tiger Woods games looked like. Both of those games could have been totally done on current gen consoles from what I saw on MTV. But when developers have had the time to create new more powerful engines that take advantage of the hardware Tiger Woods should be able to have all completely rendered blades of grass if nothing else. The only argument that could have been made for Tony Hawk was that supposedly the entire LA is set in, no loads. But a simple Halo or Metroid system of loading in the background could have easily accomplished this without any notice with this much power. I also dont see the current beautiful games as any test of the systems power. The fact that the Doom 3 engine runs in full glory no hinderance does not really impress me. It will provide much better just remember that these things have to stay competitive visually for 5 yrs as great as Doom 3 looks it wont be able to hold a candle to the next great engine at the end of this console life cycle ( Remember we all thought Half- Life looked great when it came out now we laugh at it, fortunately I think todays cutting edge is so great looking it will never be laughable or even close, thank you John Carmack). And remember this all easily attainable because 2 things, the system has incredible power, but most importantly a game console doesnt have to worry about anything else at all there arent OS'es running windows or os x for that matter in the background so every drop of rescource is dedicated to what is on your screen. (I sure hope including media center functionality is the beggining of a trend that would basically be like an os) And that is where consoles processing strength is and why they are able to at least stay competitive at the end of a life cycle. Well sorry for the long post but hope it got some things cleared up....hope to see you out there in xbox 360 land ******** on longhorn (aka longwait os since its never going to come out at this rate) with me lol. Any corrections please let me know

Paragraphs rule.

I got lost after the first two sentences. :rolleyes:
 
Apple's Media Hub

We may not all like M$, and I for sure don't, but I have to admit, this thing rocks as media hub. Enough power to move HD without hesitation between the central Windows Media PC and your TV. It's really the box M$ has talked about for a long, long time.
I just hope that all the rumors on the iHome or XStation or whatever they will call it are true, and we will see not only an announcement from Apple on the WWDC but also it will be available before the XBox 360. Apple will have to do something if they want to be this CE company that delivers digital home. I count on Apple doing this, but M$ made a very promising step and will make that Apple has to answer, if they want to be be in this playing field. Based on QT7, iHome/XStation rumors, etc. Apple is showing the signs they want to be a player. And that will be good for all of us. Because Apple now has to up the ante.
 
XP is NT -

savar said:
The original ran an NT kernel with DirectX, and it has always seemed rock solid to me. XP is the opposite, though.

I'd assume that the original line could just as easily been written as "other NT-based PCs".

XP is an NT system.

It would make sense for the Xbox 360 operating system to be based on the current NT sources (that is, XP / Win2k3). (Win2k3 identifies itself as "Windows NT 5.2" to the software.)

There are a lot of features and improvements in the current systems that would be needed in the xb360.

For example, Win2k3 has had many improvements to the scheduler for better performance with SMT (Hyper-Threaded) processors. Since the xb360 CPU has 3 SMT cores (6 hardware threads) it would be useful to use the latest scheduler.
 
that means if the xbox 360 is using powermacs G5s as developer kits that means all the games that have been shown are, graphics capable with dual 2.5ghz G5s with x800 ati cards. so the games shown are probably only using 50% of the xbox 360's power.
 
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