Xbox Founding Engineer Says Apple TV Could Destroy Console Gaming with Third-Party Apps

[Dorje Sylas]

Or possible even better, a Fusion drive.

16 or 32GB flash drive for whatever needs to be fast, anything else can go on a large HDD (much smaller OS, so an OS X size Fusion flash drive isn't needed). That way you you end up with much more storage at a reasonable price.

I was thinking the same thing. Fusion style hybrid drives are a good solution to split the differce between the 'speed' of flash memory and platter drives. Although both are fast then the optical drives.

The bigger issue is RAM. This is a serious limiter in current gen consoles, they just can't hold large chunks of content in their cheek the way a 6 or even 8 GB RAM sporting PC can, to say nothing about a 16 GB.

This is where I see Apple not wanting to go. Note how little base RAM they incude in their Mac line, it's almost anemic. For seem reason Apple seems to be allergic to RAM, and get price hike hives when they go about selling it under their logo.

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Regardless, Apple really does need to put in a 'generic' game controller in to iOS for developers. The fragmentation in 3rd party controller APIs is not healthy in the long run.

 

[ghost187]

Please go learn about gaming. No one wants Apple monopolizing yet another market and dictating what games can and cannot release on it.

You're another iSheep.
Parents are stupid.
Real gamers know better.

Well, you are contradicting yourself. You agree that Apple TV w/apps would be successful to the point where they would monopolize the market, yet you are saying nobody wants that? So will people buy Apple TVs at gun point? I'm sorry but I hate the fact that I have to buy a $300+ dedicated gaming system and pay $60 per game to play a decent game on my TV just because the minority of the nerds wishes rule the gaming industry right now where "hard core" gamers must have the absolute latest graphics, etc... I'm sorry but games are going the way of music. You can't make one good song and sell a $15 CD anymore, because if I want to, I will buy the song I like for 99 cents. Plus, if you hardcore gamers want to support "high budget" games, PC gaming will be around forever.

 

[yakapo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaD...ygOxo5psudRJaIwZXFbUN&feature=player_embedded

If they put one of these in the apple tv / gaming console, it just might suffice.

 

[Eidorian]

Hopefully, this means games like Crysis (I know, generic game and cliche) won't be watered down for XBox... (just look at screenshots of the original full blown Crysis running on the PC than full blown at XBox; there is lots of differences).

The current rumor for the sudden release of Battlefield 4 is that when compared to Bad Company 2, many of the destructible elements were toned for Battlefield 3 to allow more console players per match. It was disappointing after how strongly the destructible environments were promoted and used in Bad Company 2.

I can also imagine this is a subtle trojan horse to allow Microsoft to quickly distribute a single Xbox Store package that will work on future AMD APU tablets and the Xbox.

 

[yakapo]

Parents are stupid.

When you become a parent, you'll realize how stupid you were and how wise your parents were.

 

[leroypants]

Why can't I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends' houses? Why can't I then distribute it digitally in a decent online store, give up a 30% cut and strike it rich if it's a great game, like I can for Android, for iPhone, or for iPad?

What you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...

 

[cirus]

I made an account just to reply to this message. It is wrong on so many levels, and demonstrates an inept understanding of what this benchmark is representing.

I will be very brief. Most will understand what i'm getting at promptly.

You've basically shown us a benchmark demonstrating CPU capability. Not GPU prowess. The benchmark would be relevant had it shown competing systems both with an I5 and then the iGPU vs. the PowerVR GPU.

The simple fact is that a game like World of Warcraft is more heavily impacted by CPU prowess. The inept Atom which is an ultra low power x86 implementation is what is holding those two powerVR systems back.

In the case of Apple (A5/A5X) they are capable of pushing current-gen console quality graphics at this point in time. Not many games use this power though. The soon to be released Real Racing 3 is about the only game to make use of this increased compute power.

I won't bother going into further detail why this is possible. It doesn't require much thought. The point is that the series of benchmarks you linked to does not support your opinion.

Great, we have a crappy gpu AND a crappy cpu to deal with.

A6X still does not have anything near the power that the xbox has. 77 GFLOPS vs 250 for xbox, Xbox has more Bandwidth, more cpu power. Roughly about 4 times the power of the ipad 4, and games are heavily optimized for it.

Wow is not being limited by the cpu here, its still gpu limited. If we were cpu limited the fps would be the same at 600p and 768p

Power difference is about 3-4 times faster for the i5 (its the same for multithread because they both have two cores with hyperthreading). Yet is is beat by the hd 4000 at 600p by a factor of 10 (and I bet the hd4000 is not held back by its cpu either).

I'll bet why IOS games look current gen is because they are on such small screens and its harder to make out details.

 

[damir00]

The development terms are onerous precisely because they're protecting their AAA houses from the indies. An open console is inevitable, and it would be an incredible device, done properly. But I don't think either Sony nor Softie are in a position to push that themselves...unfortunately...

One more round of hardware upgrade for ATV and it would about be there, hardware-wise, as all it needs to support is 1080p60. Still have to solve the local storage issue for the really good games, which are huge in size, but even a simple 128GB SSD would go a long long way.

Here's hoping!

 

[Fatalbert]

*Reads title*
Yes, it could! BlueTooth controllers + apps... I really think Apple is in the best position to take over the TV box market, and from there, they can take some serious gaming marketshare.

And for anyone complaining about specs, none of the Nintendo consoles have any decently fast components. Except for realistic games like Call of Duty, you don't need a fast machine at all. Seeing an Apple machine play one of those realistic XBOX 360 games would be shocking at $200, so I'm not counting on that.

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Please go learn about gaming. No one wants Apple monopolizing yet another market and dictating what games can and cannot release on it.

You're another iSheep.
Parents are stupid.
Real gamers know better.

Oh great, it's a "professional gamer". You're actually scared of the Apple TV. That's cute.
"Real gamers" play crap like Call of Duty and Team Fortress 2. Don't worry, the Apple TV doesn't have a good enough graphical processor to make up for those games' lack of creativity, so it'll be OK.

 

[sinsin07]

IMO the problem with consoles is multi-fold.

First you have the interface. The xbox 360 and ps3 interfaces are horrible. Apple has a very simple interface on the latest apple tv iOS, you just add apps to the main screen.

Subjective.

The second problem is boot up time. It takes nearly 5 minutes to boot my xbox 360 or ps3 and get into a game. I don't have the time or patience to deal with this sort of thing anything. I don't devote days to gaming anymore. I have a few minutes to play and then the kids or the wife wants to watch something on the tv and i'm screwed until they goto bed. Well i was screwed before i got my iPad

This is personal problem. Teens, young adults and others maybe not so much.

The 3rd problem is price. I don't want to pay $59.99 for games and have a physical dvd or bluray disc laying around. The pets and children do not understand how delicate they are. I'd much rather buy a game for $.99 - $4.99 then buy one for $59.99 and not like it. I can afford to buy 12-30 games and not like them all, and that's highly unlikely to happen.

Another personal problem. You get what you pay for. For 59.99 chances are you get an in depth experience, for 99 cents you get a few moments of mind numbing entertainment. If that's all you need that's fine. However for others, mileage may vary.

Besides there is always Gamefly.

 

[zombiecakes]

it wouldnt kill consoles for the same reason the Wii didnt kill Sony and MS, the hardcore gaming market is huge and its not going away, its ridiculous to say an AppleTV would even dent that market, it may dent the percentage but it wont do anything to sales

 

[Fatalbert]

Destroy casual gaming maybe, i can totally see eating nintendos market but doubt it will take any share from the xbox and playstation market.

Well, Nintendo has been pushing into motion-based and 3D gaming, which helps a bit, but I think they're between a rock and a cliff. If motion gaming DIDN'T suck, they'd be safe.

I'm just wondering how the XBOX 360 isn't dead yet. It's unreliable, very annoying to use, and costly for online play. Is it just because the PS3's controllers aren't very good?

 

[Saikkou]

I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.

I didn't want to comment on someone who clearly knows more about markets and gaming than anyone else in here until I saw this post. The old look at me I'm an expert because.... Really.

Sure I don't get to play games like I used to, part of being an adult and having a very busy life. However, given the chance to knockout a few hours on a console playing games like xenoblade or any number titles in my library will trump playing on my iPad or iphone. Even now playing classic games is atrocious with touch screen. If this is what a gamer evolves into, count me out.

 

[trip1ex]

Not happening.

 

[B777Forevar]

I'll only support Apple's foray into the gaming market if they wipe out Microsoft from the market. Then Apple should back out after that.

M$ is a stain to the gaming world. Should be only Nintendo + Sony (and SEGA)

 

[threesixty360]

Give the Apple TV away for free

Apple tv's are pretty cheap. I don't see why they don't just give them away with every iPhone and iPad. They would recoup the money in itunes media sales in no time at all. Or at least offer it for $50 on every new iPad/iPhone or iPod touch purchase.

Practically everyone with an iOS device would benefit from an Apple TV so hardly anyone would reject the offer. It would have more market share than both ps3 and Xbox in like 1 year if they did that.

Add apps and games to it and its a no brainer. I'm surprised they haven't thought of it yet.

 

[mdelvecchio]

No developer/publisher in their right mind would invest the $100+ million it takes to make Grand Theft Auto V on a game that runs cell phone hardware. Period.

Next silly rumor.

did anyone tell John Carmack of id Software that?

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...le-that-mobile-will-surpass-current-consoles/

 

[sinsin07]

I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.

Well I guess since you really know the gaming market you should be a billionaire. If not, it's just talk.

Are girls big time gamers? Not a good example.

However, since were telling life stories, single dad, raised both daughters, put through college, etc.. Played games with them through out, and still play games to this day on consoles with them. But in regard to girl, this is probably not the norm in regard to girls and gaming.
Your life experiences are not indicative of everyone. If you lost you taste for consoles, that you.

 

[throAU]

Destroy casual gaming maybe, i can totally see eating nintendos market but doubt it will take any share from the xbox and playstation market.

As proven by iOS games... the "casual" gaming market is massively larger than the "hardcore" (Whatever that means) market.

Besides, all devs seem to be doing with the additional horsepower these days is upping poly counts and texture detaiil, whilst writing a crappy GAME...


I agree with the xbox guy. Apple is poised to destroy the console market if they were to put out a decent bluetooth controller, and offer the AppleTV in a 128GB flash version to store/cache decent sized games locally.

The iphone 5 hardware would be plenty to write decent games for, at a price well below what sony or microsoft will be pushing hardware out for.

 

[Eric5h5]

Note how little base RAM they incude in their Mac line, it's almost anemic.

Is it really? The lowest are the Macbook Air and Mac mini, where the minimum you can get is 4GB. Other than that, the iMac and Macbook Pro have a minimum of 8GB, with a minimum of 6GB for the Mac Pro.

--Eric

 

[apolloa]

Well I would declare this guy to be totally wrong! The app store games pale against the current gen of consoles let alone the next gen! No way Apple could dominate the market.

 

[throAU]

it wouldnt kill consoles for the same reason the Wii didnt kill Sony and MS, the hardcore gaming market is huge and its not going away, its ridiculous to say an AppleTV would even dent that market, it may dent the percentage but it wont do anything to sales

Again.... compare the iOS gaming market to the "real" game market and note the difference.

 

[swagi]

As proven by iOS games... the "casual" gaming market is massively larger than the "hardcore" (Whatever that means) market.

Besides, all devs seem to be doing with the additional horsepower these days is upping poly counts and texture detaiil, whilst writing a crappy GAME...

So chances are high you never played open world games nor a FPS with decent AI like the latest FarCry. You do know that AI-algorithms have become extremely complex?

Not even talking about physics. In case you haven't seen it...google for in-game telemetry data in Forza and be prepared to be blown away (yes - setting different tire pressures really changes the driving experience).

 

[sinsin07]

Again.... compare the iOS gaming market to the "real" game market and note the difference.

Angry birds for example sold more than 12 million copies for iOS alone. That is UNHEARD of in the traditional gaming market.

So? Are you saying people are buying angry birds in lieu of Halo?

 

[throAU]

So chances are high you never played open world games nor a FPS with decent AI like the latest FarCry. You do know that AI-algorithms have become extremely complex?

Not even talking about physics. In case you haven't seen it...google for in-game telemetry data in Forza and be prepared to be blown away (yes - setting different tire pressures really changes the driving experience).

Played them yes. There are exceptions. Most recent games however, are garbage as far as gameplay goes. We don't need FPS-Shooter derivative version 9,548 - with shinier graphics!

the budgets are too big, the money involved is too big to "risk" so the pc/big console industry just turns out "sure fire" garbage that we've all played before with different skins. when was the last properly original console or PC gaming idea you saw?

Tyre pressures affecting driving performance goes all the way back to Indy 500 in 1988 on PC....

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So? Are you saying people are buying angry birds in lieu of Halo?

No, i'm saying that like every single other industry in the tech market, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are going to get their lunch eaten from underneath.

The same way they ate the PC gaming market with less expensive gear that could still run an entertaining game, the same way PCs ate the mainframe market, and the same way the tablet is eating the PC market.


I've been around long enough to see it happen time and time again... the high end hardware always eventually gets marginalized as the low end becomes good enough to do what the vast majority want. we saw it with network cards, sound cards, laptops vs desktops, its happening with integrated GPUs vs discrete, and it will happen with consoles, too.