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Interesting. The chart he linked to says what he claimed. The chart you linked to says something different, but also assumes a much higher resolution requirement than the 'retina' display definition.

400 pixels per degree vs. 300 pixels per inch at 12", or approximately 63 pixels per degree if I'm doing the math right (1" at 12" is about 4.76 degrees). Significantly different figures to determine the thresholds. We know the 'retina display' figure is based on 20/20 visual acuity, but I have no idea where the former figure (more than 6.34 times higher) came from.

Given experience with the visual clarity of retina displays, I'm more inclined to believe figures based on *that* metric than one which would require an iPhone 4 to have a resolution of 4058×6086 to (roughly 2000ppi) without knowing how/why threshold was chosen.

I'm entirely open to the possibility that I got that initial angle calculation wrong, by the way.

yeah, 400 ppd is extreme, and the lower graph shows that little gains are made beyond 100 ppd. Little tricks like anti-aliasing try and cheat, sort of like how motion blur fools the eyes, at the expense of detail. it's the same with hz or frames per second, many people think we can't see more than 30 fps or something because that's what movies are, when the figure is more like 500 in certain cases with persistence of vision. 16k at 500 hz, that should cover it :D
 
Awesome!

I think apple will destroy playstations and xboxes with this move people are making decent games for iOS at <5gb bards tale, crazy taxi, FF, ravensword, metal slug, nba jam rayman, sonic and thats just for ios if apple makes ios devices controls the the dual screen and multiple sensors and possible controller adapters possibilities are endless. now to mention it will all interchange with game center which is already bigger then xbox live. It will immediately be super profitable and appeal to dev's like the article implies.
 
Apple TV box with 1tb / 2tb harddrive capable of receiving Freeview HD and up scaling the crap SD image -probably sold

With Bluray drive - defo sold!
 
There do seem to be some novel ways to leverage the existing iOS ecology. Using iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touch devices as Wii-like controllers (and Wii U-like controllers) for Apple TV games sounds like a natural.

On gaming systems, I do prefer to have controllers with physical buttons instead of a touch surface. But games that require little button input(ie real racing hd) using an iPhone or ipad is actually quite natural and awesome.
 
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." - Steve Ballmer, 2007

Get a grip mate, the iphone made the "modern" smartphone market :) its not the same to jump into the console market wich is pretty solid for years now.
 
Look, we get it - you like to argue and dont like Microsoft :rolleyes:

I'm looking at the long run here, not the TODAY market. The new consoles will be out by xmas and will likely support 4k - given that TV manufacturers have already said that 4k pricing will be a hell of a lot more reasonable by 2014, its not unrealistic to expect that over the next couple of years we'll see it adopted a lot more widely.

So, come 2014 lets hypothetically say 4k tv's are at a semi-reasonable price, why the hell would someone want to have an Apple TV with cut-down games they can get on their phone, when they can get a real console, with real online multiplayer gaming with beefy games.

Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.

This^^^

Even if 4k does not take off the "Experience" of true gaming would be compromised on an ATV.
 
Well, Nintendo has been pushing into motion-based and 3D gaming, which helps a bit, but I think they're between a rock and a cliff. If motion gaming DIDN'T suck, they'd be safe.

I'm just wondering how the XBOX 360 isn't dead yet. It's unreliable, very annoying to use, and costly for online play. Is it just because the PS3's controllers aren't very good?

I honestly dont know why all the hate for the xbox 360, launch consoles had several problems and still a year after but they pretty much got solved; i actually had a launch date 360 that never had a problem and currently own the small/mini revision and that have been trouble free also :) online play its not free yeah but i cant complaint and honestly cant remember a time where i wanted to play online and couldnt due to some problem (on my ps3 it happends but not often).

I have to agree on the ps3 controller, they are just damm small and sure hope the rumors are true and they finally change for the ps4.
 
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The Nintendo processors have never been good either, yet Nintendo makes... well made until recently... the best games. It's in the creativity, not just the processor.

You're also comparing current game consoles to the current Apple TV, which you can't do in fairness since the Apple TV is not designed at all to be a gaming machine. The Apple TV has a bad processor because it doesn't need a good one at the moment. Apple could, of course, upgrade it to play even the more realistic games, but of course, its price won't be good when compared to its specs.

A $200 Apple TV should be able to play Halo 2 I think. Maybe in the future, the cost of a fast GPU will decrease enough to make the Apple TV realistic game console possible, but for now, adding 3rd-party apps is a quick and simple step to get a lot of decent games on the Apple TV. Hasn't iOS already taken over the handheld game market?

By the way, the possessive form of "it" is "its", not "it's".

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Well, you are contradicting yourself. You agree that Apple TV w/apps would be successful to the point where they would monopolize the market, yet you are saying nobody wants that? So will people buy Apple TVs at gun point? I'm sorry but I hate the fact that I have to buy a $300+ dedicated gaming system and pay $60 per game to play a decent game on my TV just because the minority of the nerds wishes rule the gaming industry right now where "hard core" gamers must have the absolute latest graphics, etc... I'm sorry but games are going the way of music. You can't make one good song and sell a $15 CD anymore, because if I want to, I will buy the song I like for 99 cents. Plus, if you hardcore gamers want to support "high budget" games, PC gaming will be around forever.

Great explanation, but logic won't work on this one. Insulting a hardcore gamer's console is worse than insulting is mom. Go on YouTube, say that the PS3 is better than the XBOX 360, and you'll get death threats.

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To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.

But wouldn't we have some rumors on its development? I'm just worried that Apple is NOT doing anything about the Apple TV. They must.

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An Apple "TV" that is capable of competing with Microsoft's XBox would NOT be worth $100. Keep dreaming.

Surely not, but in the future, it may be. Once that happens, the XBOX 360 and PS3 are both dead meat unless one of them manages to take over the TV box market (which is still a possibility). I think Sony is screwed and that only MS has a chance.
 
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I hope Apple doesnt mess with the game market cause I like it the way it is. It is already flooded with terrible games made for iOS/Android and ported to the consoles/PC. REAL games nowadays are so few.
 
I'll only support Apple's foray into the gaming market if they wipe out Microsoft from the market. Then Apple should back out after that.

M$ is a stain to the gaming world. Should be only Nintendo + Sony (and SEGA)

I agree on the MS part. Honestly, I only like the XBOX 360 at all because it has great games and a good controller. What I'd like to see is Sony for realistic games and Apple paired with Nintendo (making only the games themselves) for casual games.

I was always a huge fan of Nintendo, but I don't think they deserve to make hardware anymore. The Wii is great in every way except that it's focused on motion gaming, and therefore, so are the games. So it's trying to do what Apple does best while making only a few good games. The 3DS at least still has an advantage because it has two screens, which is great (but 3D is stupid and annoying).

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I hope Apple doesnt mess with the game market cause I like it the way it is. It is already flooded with terrible games made for iOS/Android and ported to the consoles/PC. REAL games nowadays are so few.

You can say that good games are a smaller percentage of the total number of games now, but the absolute number of good games has increased. Just ignore the garbage like FarmVille. However, the number of GREAT games is very small now since Nintendo has nearly gone down the drain.

I miss you, GoldenEye, SSBM, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, LoZ Windwaker, Super Monkey Ball, Mario Kart Double Dash...
 
I agree on the MS part. Honestly, I only like the XBOX 360 at all because it has great games and a good controller. What I'd like to see is Sony for realistic games and Apple paired with Nintendo (making only the games themselves) for casual games.

I was always a huge fan of Nintendo, but I don't think they deserve to make hardware anymore. The Wii is great in every way except that it's focused on motion gaming, and therefore, so are the games. So it's trying to do what Apple does best while making only a few good games. The 3DS at least still has an advantage because it has two screens, which is great (but 3D is stupid and annoying).

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You can say that good games are a smaller percentage of the total number of games now, but the absolute number of good games has increased. Just ignore the garbage like FarmVille. However, the number of GREAT games is very small now since Nintendo has nearly gone down the drain.

I miss you, GoldenEye, SSBM, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, LoZ Windwaker, Super Monkey Ball, Mario Kart Double Dash...

The Ninetendo Wii U actually seems pretty decent. But I think it's a product that's a bit late and going to find a hard time finding a market. I think my 11 year old was right in their target demo. He had a Wii when he was younger and had just moved on to Xbox last summer. He missed a lot of Nintendo games (Super Mario, Sonic, etc.).

But the Wii U seems like a bit of a mixed bag. The graphics are much improved now that they are in HD...but other than Nintendo exclusive games, it really doesn't offer a better experience than the Xbox. I just don't see how it's going to regain a decent market share.

It'll replace the Wii (maybe) as a family gaming computer system that everyone can enjoy...but it's not a hard core gaming system.
 
Apple TV box with 1tb / 2tb harddrive capable of receiving Freeview HD and up scaling the crap SD image -probably sold

With Bluray drive - defo sold!

I doubt they'll go down this path.

you'll probably find the machine will ship with a bit more flash (to keep the price down) and stream games from the internet like it does with HD content right now.

Maybe caching content between levels.

Waiting for content to download has become part of console gaming life already anyway, every ********* time I want to play GT5 on the PS3 (which is only once every few months) i've got a PS3 software update and GT5 updates to download. Yeah sure you can skip them but only if you unplug the console from the net and don't want to use online features....

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It's all about GPU these days and the iOS device GPUs are "good enough".

People moaned and rolled their eyes at nintendo with the Wii specs too, and yet who sold the most hardware? Even teh PS2 market is still doing pretty well and that hardware is about 13 years old and outperformed significantly by a modern cell phone.

The AppleTV hardware is way underpowered compared to a PS4 or future Xbox, sure. However the next generation may not be so far from PS3 or Xbox 360, and that is "good enough" by a long shot as proven by the success Nintendo had with the Wii. The iOS devices already have more RAM than a PS3, the storage is quicker, and the GPU is likely on-par. There's also a massive developer pool who already have games out for iOS that would easily be able to port or use existing skills to write new ATV games. The developer pool for new Xbox and PS4 will be starting from zero due to the totally new hardware and lack of well-known and well-tested development platform.

A developer for future Xbox / PS4 will need to spend time and money to learn the platform, the SDK, etc, whereas for an iOS developer ATV will be very similar to what they already support.

Other than the "hard core" market, console hardware has been good enough for most people for many years - since the PS2 days. It's a case of whether or not decent games are still being released and price. And apple are strong on both of those points.

There's a huge market of mobile gamers out there who are happy to pay $5/game or less (like they do on mobile with iOS or android), but will NOT stump the cash for AAA "big budget" titles.

Google/android are equally positioned with the potential to eat the home console market also - but apple has the advantage here from teh standpoint of less fragmentation and ease of support for a developer - even if they were to support all iOS based Apple TVs, that will only be 3 platforms once the new version comes out. Rather than a heap of different Android hardware and a myriad of different Android versions due to lack of OEM upgrade support on many android devices.

Gabe from Valve is also concerned that apple are positioned to dominate the console market.
 
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It'll replace the Wii (maybe) as a family gaming computer system that everyone can enjoy...but it's not a hard core gaming system.

Yeah, it's good for that, but have you experienced the GameCube? There are some non-serious games on that that are masterpieces. It doesn't have the nice interface of the Wii, but it's still the best console for multiplayer games IMO (with the Wii playing GameCube games taken out).

I think the Apple TV could do the job of a Wii with the right apps and BlueTooth controllers. By the way, Wiimotes are BlueTooth controllers, and the Wii "sensor bar" is really just an IR light emitter, so you can use a Wiimote with motion even on a Mac or iPod touch if you have a source of strong IR light (could even be a candle). So of course, a Wiimote could be used with an Apple TV in theory.
 
I think the Apple TV could do the job of a Wii with the right apps and BlueTooth controllers. By the way, Wiimotes are BlueTooth controllers, and the Wii "sensor bar" is really just an IR light emitter, so you can use a Wiimote with motion even on a Mac or iPod touch if you have a source of strong IR light (could even be a candle). So of course, a Wiimote could be used with an Apple TV in theory.

The PS3 controllers are bluetooth as well.
 
I agree 100% I said years before the app store came out that games should cost no more than $20. I hope Apple creates a powerful TV appliance and we finally get reasonably priced games and cut out these publishers.

Why should games cost no more than $20?
Should phones cost no more than $100?
What if the best games cost $30 each to make?
Who will fund game development if these publishers are cut out?
 
Why should games cost no more than $20?
Should phones cost no more than $100?
What if the best games cost $30 each to make?
Who will fund game development if these publishers are cut out?
Kickstarter works wonders but publishers are a real plague on the industry trying to capture lightning in a bottle again with endless sequels.

I only pick up games on Steam sales or discount pre-orders if all of my friends are in. The guy you replied too? Good luck with that one...
 
More Rubbish

This, like many of the tales coming from so-called industry experts is absolute rubbish. iPad/iPhone and potentially Apple TV "games" are nothing more than a enjoyable distraction. Nothing comes close to the wonderful and complex games of the current generation of consoles. Hell, nothing in "app land" comes close to even the last generation of consoles, I don't even want to think how stupid this opinion is with mind to the next-gen consoles.

I an constantly annoyed by these types of airy-fairy reports.

1000
 
This, like many of the tales coming from so-called industry experts is absolute rubbish. iPad/iPhone and potentially Apple TV "games" are nothing more than a enjoyable distraction.

This is the purpose of gaming for the masses.

I don't disagree that the hardware will not compete at the high end.

I'm saying that it won't matter, and the vast majority of the market will buy the cheaper device that does the job, as they have with VHS vs Betamax, tablet vs pc, console vs gaming pc, etc, etc, etc.
 
Historial Perspective

Chief among the reasons we experienced the video game crash of 1983 in the states was anyone could develop a console game (and often tried). The market experienced a deluge of mediocre titles. Coupled with other factors (Commodore's price war, a generally lukewarm economy, etc..), this crippled the home gaming industry.

To this day, fear that we could see a second video game crash, along with a business model that favors development system fees and licensing in lieu of hardware revenue, compels console manufactures to lock out indie devs in an effort to exert tight control over their eco systems.

It's time for that to change, but I think it's more likely to happen as Nat suggests, through Apple TV or an enterprising new console project. Dinosaurs don't like sprints.
 
I hope Apple doesnt mess with the game market cause I like it the way it is. It is already flooded with terrible games made for iOS/Android and ported to the consoles/PC. REAL games nowadays are so few.

I agree. And games even on consoles are too easy so imagine how easy they are going to be on an apple device.

I fear the gaming industry is going back to the pre NES era where there were too many crappy gaming products saturating the market.
 
I think, as he says, a proper app support for the AppleTV would be THE gaming revolution in the living room Gabe Newell has been talking about. As much as he'd want his Steam Box to be the thing, it won't. Hard core gamers might go the Steam Box route, but the casual majority will go the easy way.

So why hasn't Apple done this already? I think a part of that answer is that Apple has never been gaming oriented. They know that gamers are picky and much more demanding than your typical customer. The gaming explosion on iOS was more a positive side-effect, than a planned move from Apple. Yes, with Gaming Center they are dipping their toes into a more full on support for gaming, but I think they think the water is too cold still.

Of course, one could argue that you can already do most gaming things you want, with an iPad or iPhone, and use AirPlay. But I think it's a bit complicated for the average user.
 
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