Yeah, I meant: what are you missing in Netbeans since you're eager to switch?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
macOS XCode 4
- Thread starter rookpsu
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yeah, I meant: what are you missing in Netbeans since you're eager to switch?
I said that in the sense that Ruby and Python are treated as second class citizens.
Netbeans feels like you need to give it a little kick every now and then, it starts to feel sluggish and lacks the niceties of Xcode for working with C and Objective C.
If possible i would rather work on one IDE than many.
That makes sense, of course, ...but beware of abominations* like Eclipse.
[*] IMHO
I always seem to end up with multiple windows open in XCode 3. The "unified" window approach of XCode 4 will be very useful.
For all of those "eagerly awaiting" the public release I think I can safely say it's going to be awhile.
After using it a bit I'm switching back to Xcode 3 ( and I'm doing OS X development ). Xcode 4 is nice and a lot is hard to judge off screen shots but it has a lot of glitches and needs a lot of work until it's even close to ready for prime time in my opinion.
I will say when it gets more polished up it's going to be absolutely amazing. The new LLVM 2.0 compiler and LLDB integration is awesome and saves a lot of time since errors and warnings are given while typing instead of just on a compile.
After using it a bit I'm switching back to Xcode 3 ( and I'm doing OS X development ). Xcode 4 is nice and a lot is hard to judge off screen shots but it has a lot of glitches and needs a lot of work until it's even close to ready for prime time in my opinion.
I will say when it gets more polished up it's going to be absolutely amazing. The new LLVM 2.0 compiler and LLDB integration is awesome and saves a lot of time since errors and warnings are given while typing instead of just on a compile.
I may be no coder but Java is something Apple supports pretty deep within OSX and I'm meaning Java2ME/2EE as well (not Javascript).
Under KEY TECHNOLOGIES:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html
Cocoa, Carbon, and Java are all listed!
Also
Development
Xcode 3 IDE with Interface Builder 3
Instruments
Dashcode
AppleScript Studio
Automator 2
Shark
GCC compiler and toolset (original project by FSF.org)
DTrace (original project by Sun)
Complete Java JDK, including javac, javadoc, ANT, and Maven tools
Apache web server
AppleScript
Ruby and the Ruby on Rails frameworks
Python
Perl
PHP
SQLite
I'd say XCode 4, along with Workspace (borrowed from Eclipse & Java development) is not a wasted resource implementation.
Am I wrong?
After seeing the leaked screens, I can say I won't mind using Xcode; as, from the screens, its like Visual Studio, all in one window.
Are there any way to participate in the beta program?
After watching the WWDC sessions I wouldn't mind to try it and help them to improve the IDE.
After watching the WWDC sessions I wouldn't mind to try it and help them to improve the IDE.
I'm afraid that answer is no. It isn't even a beta. It's a preview, which is closer to an alpha release.
They will release it as a full developer preview, but there is no point at guessing when that could be. It could be tomorrow, next week, maybe even next year, depending on the feedback they got from the attendees. If you watch the video State Of the Union, there is a section where one of the presenters is showing llvm supposedly performing a realtime static analysis, and it doesn't work, he literally has to remove the text and type it back in for llvm to find the problem. That could be a simple 1 line fix, or it could be a complicated fix involving multiple objects spread across multiple threads each with a state that needs to be maintained. You get the idea.
They will release it as a full developer preview, but there is no point at guessing when that could be. It could be tomorrow, next week, maybe even next year, depending on the feedback they got from the attendees. If you watch the video State Of the Union, there is a section where one of the presenters is showing llvm supposedly performing a realtime static analysis, and it doesn't work, he literally has to remove the text and type it back in for llvm to find the problem. That could be a simple 1 line fix, or it could be a complicated fix involving multiple objects spread across multiple threads each with a state that needs to be maintained. You get the idea.
You are entitled to your opinion and your personal preferences, but I'm pretty sure that you are in a minority. Most developers that actually want to use an IDE for their development work usually love Visual Studio and wouldn't want to use anything else.
Frankly speaking, I think that Xcode is the most horrible IDE that I've ever seen (and I've seen and used quite a few). It gets even worse in combination with Objective-C, which I find to be a horribly out-dated and ugly to read and write programming language. Objective-C might have some elegant theoretical concepts at its foundation, but they all get lost in line noise. For my eyes, Objective-C code is unbearable to read. But that's just me.
That makes sense, of course, ...but beware of abominations* like Eclipse.
[*] IMHO
That's funny. I personally find eclipse much more acceptable, comfortable and easier to use and understand than Xcode - and I am by no means a Java guy.
//Ignoring the rest of the drivel
Those are usually the same developers that perform doubleclick programming ritually, there are only a few people that I've met that can use VisualStudio to its full potential.
XCode is a wonderful tool, it doesn't tolerate laziness. (BOOSH!)
Having used many an IDE I can say Visual Studio has some nice debugging facilities. But that is about the only thing I like about it.
Haven't had a chance to play with the Xcode 4 preview but if it is single window only I'm not going to be happy.
After having looked at the developer presentation of Xcode 4 I can't help but think its been designed to sell multiple large screen displays. Apple must be coming out with something bugger than a 30" display.
Haven't had a chance to play with the Xcode 4 preview but if it is single window only I'm not going to be happy.
After having looked at the developer presentation of Xcode 4 I can't help but think its been designed to sell multiple large screen displays. Apple must be coming out with something bugger than a 30" display.
but I think it will also fit better on a 15" screen. Currently I have having to switch all the time between xcode, interface builder, console ...
Keyboard menu navigation allows me to get to the desired window without using the mouse and moving things around. It's easy once you've bothered to learn its use. Of course it doesn't work for game development where the game needs to take over the entire display but thats what multiple monitor use is for.
Any version of Xcode is, to me, a miserable experience when limited to using a single Window.
Of course if you're a Windows programmer you're used to it and anything else is confusing.
Any version of Xcode is, to me, a miserable experience when limited to using a single Window.
Of course if you're a Windows programmer you're used to it and anything else is confusing.
That makes sense, of course, ...but beware of abominations* like Eclipse.
[*] IMHO
I always seem to end up with multiple windows open in XCode 3. The "unified" window approach of XCode 4 will be very useful.
It's likely that you can dock and undock windows like any modern IDE.
Any development platform that only supports a single monitor is going back to the stone age.
That's true, but with the organizer, console, editor, documentation, and search windows all open (and IB too, potentially) there can be a silly amount of windows. Anything that combines, integrates or improves the split between editor, search and documentation windows has to be a good thing
Although I really like the idea of a single window for XCode and IB, I don't like the idea not being able to use my 2 monitors, having 2 open windows, 2 XCode projects where I can view changes, compare and update each project according to my needs. You see I work with my custom made .dylibs all the time and being able to see the files of a framework on one screen and the files of an end-user application in the other is crucial for me.
It's one reason I don't like Visual Studio. And It's one reason I don't like Windows in general. Apple has always adopted a Single-Application-Many-Windows approach. Windows has adopted a Single window Single application approach.
There is no point in making a flexible program less flexible. For me, XCode needs many improvements in the UI, but doesn't need to be the next Visual Studio. I hope they give the opportunity to dock and undock windows from the main window.
It's one reason I don't like Visual Studio. And It's one reason I don't like Windows in general. Apple has always adopted a Single-Application-Many-Windows approach. Windows has adopted a Single window Single application approach.
There is no point in making a flexible program less flexible. For me, XCode needs many improvements in the UI, but doesn't need to be the next Visual Studio. I hope they give the opportunity to dock and undock windows from the main window.
Perhaps you should upgrade to Visual Studio 2010. It now allows all code, designer windows, and any dockable panels to be removed from the main window and onto multiple screens.
Xcode 4 does look like it is finally becoming competitive with other nice IDEs and from the videos its raising the bar quite a bit.
I work like this all the time using Visual Studio 2005 and 2008... At times I've had as many as 4-5 instances of VS open in different projects at once... DLL, webservice that uses DLL, client for webservice, NUnit project for one or more of the above, etc. Frequently have project in one monitor and NUnit test project for it open on other monitor.
I also have VS set to auto-hide most of the panes, so they are only out when I need something from them. XCode 3's IB interface is terrible for having a ton of tiny windows, which either need a bunch of room on screen, or I can close them and have to hunt through menus to get them back. A small area where I can hover and get the larger interface to pop out as needed is pretty ideal.
Not that VS is the be-all, end-all. I like how XCode's code completion stops on words if you hit tab, so you can pick easily between commands with similar first words with relatively few keystrokes, rather than typing a few then moving to arrows to pick the one I want.
Yup, I should have mentioned that I have already upgraded to VS 2010, and it was a breath of fresh air. If XCode does not provide the docking options VS does, then this would be a step backwards.
