Xiaomi VP Hugo Barra Defends Against Copycat Accusations in New Interview

[BaldiMac]

How is the iPhone an invention? Did apple invent the phone? Therefor, if apple has the Mac, does that mean they invented the computer? If they were to release the iCar, would you now call that an invention as well and claim apple invented the car?

Please... those arent inventions.

Your right. It does sound completely ridiculous when you make something up instead of what I actually said.

I didn't claim Apple invented the phone. I claimed they invented the iPhone.

Again, the discussion would be easier if you shared your definition of invention.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Your right. It does sound completely ridiculous when you make something up instead of what I actually said.

I didn't claim Apple invented the phone. I claimed they invented the iPhone.

Again, the discussion would be easier if you shared your definition of invention.

This is reaching really hard.

 

[C DM]

Android and other OS'es have had it 'prime' for years now. I wanna know the REAL reason why Apple stagnates features like this.

Simply having a feature doesn't mean it's "prime" just because of that. Why are we on this unrelated tangent again?

 

[mi7chy]

Android and other OS'es have had it 'prime' for years now. I wanna know the REAL reason why Apple stagnates features like this.

Maybe Apple needs to upgrade their old slow Xerox to one of the new high speed Ricoh/Lanier.

 

[C DM]

This is reaching really hard.

Quite a few different things that you seem to be trying to say certainly appear to be that way.

 

[UnfetteredMind]

Sorry about that...I guess I do owe you an apology. You are entitled to your opinion even if I don't agree with the argument. It's just that those pictures and that argument have been used multiple times by some of the biggest Apple haters in this site. Again, I don't see the similarities and I don't consider those pictures as proof that Apple copied those designs.

If you wanna talk about Apple copying then Xerox comes to mind. But then again, Jobs was just opportunistic and the people at Xerox were idiots for not patenting their discoveries.

And Apple paid to see what they were working on in the lab. As I recall Xerox even got Apple stock out of the deal. So again, DIDN'T STEAL. What Xerox showed them was also CRUDE. Apple took this idea and expanded on it big time. Among other things, they developed overlapping windows, which they *THOUGHT* they saw at Xerox. They didn't. Xerox was surprised when they showed it. It took Microsoft quite a while to figure it out and do that in Windows.

 

[The Tuck]

"Xiaomi, start your photocopiers"

Tuck

 

[BaldiMac]

This is reaching really hard.

Why do you have a problem sharing what you intend to mean by invention? I'm happy to answer your question if you simply tell me what your threshold for invention is.

 

[LordVic]

iPhone, iPod, iPad, Mac, Newton...

I just find it hard to believe that you visit this forum and haven't heard of any of these things.

iPods: not the first MP3 players to market. Nor the first hard drive based MP3 player to market
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player#IXI

iPhone: Not the first smartphone to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

iPad: not the first Tablet to Market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer

Mac: not the first Personal Computer to Market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_personal_computers

Newton: Not the first PDA to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant


now, none of that doesn't mean that Apple didnt' do an excellent job at what they did. Many of those are excellent. the iPod was my favourite MP3 player I ever owned. I enjoy my MacBook Air immensely.

But would you like to try again with another list?

 

[neoly19833]

They copy everything from Apple, I don't agree but I can understand. The only thing makes me disgusting is that they don't even admit it. That's so evil..

 

[UnfetteredMind]

iPods: not the first MP3 players to market. Nor the first hard drive based MP3 player to market
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player#IXI

iPhone: Not the first smartphone to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

iPad: not the first Tablet to Market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer

Mac: not the first Personal Computer to Market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_personal_computers

Newton: Not the first PDA to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant


now, none of that doesn't mean that Apple didnt' do an excellent job at what they did. Many of those are excellent. the iPod was my favourite MP3 player I ever owned. I enjoy my MacBook Air immensely.

But would you like to try again with another list?

So the only innovators are those that are "first"? From there on, any improvements made are not innovative?

The only innovative car was the first one? The only innovative computer or operating system was the first one?

I think the person who said to look at patents (ones that have been granted and not invalidated) would be a fair way to go about looking at it (for Apple or any other company).

 

[LordVic]

So the only innovators are those that are "first"? From there on, any improvements made are not innovative?

The only innovative car was the first one? The only innovative computer or operating system was the first one?

I think the person who said to look at patents (ones that have been granted and not invalidated) would be a fair way to go about looking at it (for Apple or any other company).

no
you're confusing two seperate words here.

The question was "name something Apple invented". BaldiMAC Proceeded to name Apple branded versions of these technologies that already existed

There was absolutely innovation involved. But Innovation isn't necessarily the same as Invention.

The first person to come up with something could be said to invent it. However, you can absolutely take an existing invention, change it, remix it, or enhance it, and it is innovative.

I Do think Apple is extremely innovative. Many of the products have helped penetrate these existing inventions into new markets and larger markets because they were able to innovate in such a way that made them wanted. Apple should be applauded for that, and I do

But I don't think that just because they repackaged something in a nicer way, they suddenly invented it.

The words are similar, but there are differences in meaning:

Inventing: to originate or create as a product of one's own ingenuity , experimentation, orcontrivance

Innovating: to introduce something new ; make changes in anything established.

 

[UnfetteredMind]

no
you're confusing two seperate words here.

The question was "name something Apple invented". BaldiMAC Proceeded to name Apple branded versions of these technologies that already existed

There was absolutely innovation involved. But Innovation isn't necessarily the same as Invention.

The first person to come up with something could be said to invent it. However, you can absolutely take an existing invention, change it, remix it, or enhance it, and it is innovative.

I Do think Apple is extremely innovative. Many of the products have helped penetrate these existing inventions into new markets and larger markets because they were able to innovate in such a way that made them wanted. Apple should be applauded for that, and I do

But I don't think that just because they repackaged something in a nicer way, they suddenly invented it.

The words are similar, but there are differences in meaning:

Inventing: to originate or create as a product of one's own ingenuity , experimentation, or contrivance

Innovating: to introduce something new ; make changes in anything established.

Ah, I see.

Using that definition, I don't imagine there's much invention going on in the world, but plenty of innovation. Your thoughts?

 

[LordVic]

Ah, I see.

Using that definition, I don't imagine there's much invention going on in the world, but plenty of innovation. Your thoughts?

I agree. we're all waiting for the next big invention, and I'm not sure what it is. (well, if I did, i'd probably be rich )

we're seeing in tech, mostly innovation building on innovation over the last few decades. We're building on things dreamed up in the minds of sci-fi 60-70 years ago. many things we're seeing today have been in works in labs for decades as well, just might not have been technologically prime time or consumer ready.

I think the next big breakthroughs in invention, will be in the drug and pharma markets to be honest, with new ways of treating old ailments.

But for invention in tech? I honestly can't think of a whole lot

 

[Michael Scrip]

no
you're confusing two seperate words here.

The question was "name something Apple invented". BaldiMAC Proceeded to name Apple branded versions of these technologies that already existed

There was absolutely innovation involved. But Innovation isn't necessarily the same as Invention.

The first person to come up with something could be said to invent it. However, you can absolutely take an existing invention, change it, remix it, or enhance it, and it is innovative.

I Do think Apple is extremely innovative. Many of the products have helped penetrate these existing inventions into new markets and larger markets because they were able to innovate in such a way that made them wanted. Apple should be applauded for that, and I do

But I don't think that just because they repackaged something in a nicer way, they suddenly invented it.

The words are similar, but there are differences in meaning:

Inventing: to originate or create as a product of one's own ingenuity , experimentation, orcontrivance

Innovating: to introduce something new ; make changes in anything established.

What I think I've learned from this thread:

You can only invent something once.... but you can innovate again and again.

The first smartphone ever was the IBM Simon in 1992

So every smartphone imagined or created after 1992 was just an improvement of the original work done by IBM for the Simon.

In short... IBM invented the smartphone... but many companies innovated in the smartphone market in the decades that followed.

 

[usarioclave]

The first fork had 25 tines, three handles, and was four feet long. The second fork had three tines and could be held in one hand.

Is the second fork an innovation or an invention?

 

[LordVic]

The first fork had 25 tines, three handles, and was four feet long. The second fork had three tines and could be held in one hand.

Is the second fork an innovation or an invention?

the 25 tine fork was invention.

the second fork was innovation.


it might not have worked WELL, but it was the first creation of something to acomplish a specific job. Nobody else did it before. invention doesn't have to 'work well' or be 'the biggest seller' or the 'most marketable'. it just has to be the first to complete a specific task.

Innovation just makes it complete those tasks easier, better, faster, stronger, quicker, or any other such adjective. and hey, sometimes, worse! but, the task was already completed before.

 

[Elvergun]

And Apple paid to see what they were working on in the lab. As I recall Xerox even got Apple stock out of the deal. So again, DIDN'T STEAL. What Xerox showed them was also CRUDE. Apple took this idea and expanded on it big time. Among other things, they developed overlapping windows, which they *THOUGHT* they saw at Xerox. They didn't. Xerox was surprised when they showed it. It took Microsoft quite a while to figure it out and do that in Windows.

Yeah...it wasn't until Widows 7 (or was it Windows Vista) that they finally got it right.

 

[kdarling]

And Apple paid to see what they were working on in the lab. As I recall Xerox even got Apple stock out of the deal. So again, DIDN'T STEAL.

Apple did not pay Xerox.

During 1978-80, Apple was looking for venture capital, and so was offering angel investors pre-IPO stock options. One of the several takers was Xerox Development Corporation (XDC), a financial investment branch of Xerox.

Jobs used the XDC investment connection to talk his way into a demo by PARC, an entirely different division. However, Apple themselves have never claimed that this included a license, not even when Xerox sued them years later for failing to cite Xerox as a base source for their GUI.

What Xerox showed them was also CRUDE. Apple took this idea and expanded on it big time. Among other things, they developed overlapping windows, which they *THOUGHT* they saw at Xerox. They didn't. Xerox was surprised when they showed it. It took Microsoft quite a while to figure it out and do that in Windows.

Not your fault, but that's a commonly repeated myth started by people who (as so often happens) didn't understand what they were reading, and so made up something incorrect that they could understand.

Xerox already had overlapping windows. They also had a fast blitter algorithm, so they simply redrew everything underneath when the topmost window was moved.

What one of the Apple developers THOUGHT he saw at Xerox, was overlapping windows that only updated the screen regions that had just been uncovered. So he wrote his code that way. Nice, but this is something that any GUI developer does if they have the time (or the need because of a slow system). Did it myself in the early days. It's not rocket science.

Interestingly, Xerox found through testing that most office workers immediately arranged their windows to be non-overlapping (as many people still do on large or multiple monitors), so one version of their GUI defaulted to tiling windows on startup. I suspect this fed the myth as well.

In addition the PARC developers tried to hold back showing the best stuff, since they were convinced that Apple was going to steal it all.

All that said, Apple did add many of their own innovations, of course, as did others.

 

[bladerunner2000]

iPods: not the first MP3 players to market. Nor the first hard drive based MP3 player to market
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player#IXI

iPhone: Not the first smartphone to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

iPad: not the first Tablet to Market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer

Mac: not the first Personal Computer to Market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_personal_computers

Newton: Not the first PDA to market - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant


now, none of that doesn't mean that Apple didnt' do an excellent job at what they did. Many of those are excellent. the iPod was my favourite MP3 player I ever owned. I enjoy my MacBook Air immensely.

But would you like to try again with another list?

Baldimac just got sonned.

 

[Shirasaki]

Name those things.

Off topic.

I am sure you are working really hard to try to convince others not defending Apple and blame xiaomi in this case.

I myself, however, don't really want to stand in any faction.

I don't want to protect Apple, although I use many Apple products and I have no choice but keeping using Apple products in the future.

I don't want to protect xiaomi as well since their product, marketing, and maybe something more is really similar to what Apple has. This is a fact.

 

[C DM]

Baldimac just got sonned.

Certainly appears like that's something that has been happening to your over and over in this thread.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Certainly appears like that's something that has been happening to your over and over in this thread.

Oh snap! You got me there! Next thing you know, I'm going to get sued by Apple for making, well, ANYHING with round corners!

#datpatent

Let's all cheer for onesidedly for Apple as they bully their way into a market monopoly!

 

[Palladium SG]

I don't care who copied who but at the very least Xiaomi takes most of the credit for pioneering the wave of well specced and affordable Android phones (and some wonderful IEMs for cheap)...Can't say the same for Shamesung.

 

[Jon-Erich]

Its not like Jony is completely innocent from copying though. People who think otherwise have never heard of Brauns most influential designer Dieter Rams...

Jony has never been secretive about how much Dieter Rams has influenced the design of Apple products. In fact, Dieter Rams' 10 Principles of “Good Design” is the guideline Apple follows when designing their own products. That being said, you're never going to mistake an old Braun product for an Apple product. Apple products still have a design language that they can call their own.