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Yet another thread about how Apple has lost me as a customer

7031 said:
I put it to sleep one night. Never woke up again. Turns out the logic board is dead. Apple wants nothing to do with it, my insurance wants nothing to do with it, and I'm left with a 1200 pound repair bill (700 if I do it myself) that I clearly cannot afford, so I'm left with no choice but to switch back to Windows, which I'm now very happy to do.
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Yeah but your situation would be the same with Dell, Gateway, Sony, or whatever company you went with.

I always buy AppleCare for laptops. Yeah it's $300 US, but I've used it for every machine I've ever bought. Apple replaced my Logic board, keyboard, and now the battery for free.

I always felt that Apple should include the price of AppleCare and basically give you a $300 discount if you want to reduce the warranty. Then in your mind you would be a bit less angry. You took the risk, and now are paying for it. I think if you could go back in time, you would have paid for AppleCare.

In addition the logic board in my MBP 2.4GHz 17" costs $1600 if I wanted to replace it myself. I can replace my harddrive/RAM no problem and probably cheaper than Apple, but the logic board is worth the AppleCare price.

I will tell you that AppleCare is MUCH better to deal with than Dell's Premium Care. If you call Dell, you will get some Indian named "Bob" that can barely speak engrish.
 
Azathoth said:
As a designer of electronic equipment, let me weigh in:

Temperature cycles causing expansion/contraction of the printed circuit assemblies are the other major cause of failure, which may be worse in newer equipment manufactured with RoHS compliant non-Pb solders (I think this is one of the issues iwth the infamous nvidia 8400 card problems, due to new die bonding techniques)
.
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This was a problem with the iBook G3 laptops. The "ball solders" on the GPU would expand/contract causing them to eventually break and lose contact. You could only make the screen work by applying pressure on the laptop where the GPU sits under.

Crazy do-it-yourselfers would put votive candle's on top to re-heat the solder. There are even small companies who will try to re-solder to fix it cheaper than Apple.
 
Sparky9292 said:
I will tell you that AppleCare is MUCH better to deal with than Dell's Premium Care. If you call Dell, you will get some Indian named "Bob" that can barely speak engrish.
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Oh my god don't even get me started on Dell technical support. The language barrier is horrible (read: horrible), it is impossible to understand what they are asking to do. Then they transfer you anywhere from 2-6 times, and each time you need to re-explain the situation until finally someone helps you properly.

In contrast, every time I have used Apple support I get to speak to someone in the US who can understand me perfectly clearly. They create a case, I drop the laptop off at an Apple Authorized Service Provider (which is on my college campus, a 45 second walk from where I work), and pick it up when its fixed, free of charge. Just the other day I brought my MacBook Air in due to broken hinges, and in LESS than 23 hours it was fixed and back in my hands. Thats amazing service.
 
chrisrottan said:
Yes. But batteries are another thing. We're used to and know for a fact how a battery will last on your typical notebook/laptop. Once you develop "breakthrough battery technology" and do not back it up with warranty, it sounds sketchy don't you agree?
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Not at all. When I buy a new car, I expect it to run at least 150,000 miles, but I'm more hoping for 200,000 miles. That is a lot more than the warranty. But that mileage depends an awful lot on how much you drive and how you drive. Same with batteries; it depends on how much you use the battery. Apple promises about 1000 complete charges, that could be 18 months, that could be five years.

Sparky9292 said:
I always buy AppleCare for laptops. Yeah it's $300 US, but I've used it for every machine I've ever bought. Apple replaced my Logic board, keyboard, and now the battery for free.
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And unlike most companies, Apple lets you buy AppleCare at any time while the computer is still under warranty. So you can buy a MacBook without AppleCare, and if you have any problems at all in the first 11 months, then you buy AppleCare.
 
THX1139 said:
Here's a counterpoint to the original post.

I've owned MANY apple computers since the early 90's. So far, I've only had one major issue where my graphics card on my early Macpro died out of warranty. I took it to Apple anyway and guess what? They repaired it because they thought it might have been from an earlier issue.
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Here's a counterpoint to your post. I've had 2 computers, one never broke, and the other broke and Applecare refused to fix it, while it was IN WARRANTY.

gnasher729 said:
And unlike most companies, Apple lets you buy AppleCare at any time while the computer is still under warranty. So you can buy a MacBook without AppleCare, and if you have any problems at all in the first 11 months, then you buy AppleCare.
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Actually, any computer company will let you do that. I've extended a Dell warranty from 1 year to 3 years to 4 years, no problems at all.
 
to the OP, i feel bad for you, but that is why there is AC. If you are mad that Apple only offers a 1 year warranty compared to a 3 year for window machines, you should've realized that before buying your MBP. You also had a year to purchase AC. $240 is cheaper than $1200 for a logicboard....

My MBP gets hot as well. It is at 138 degrees right now, as i type this....
 
Sorry if I was a bit incomplete in my posting.

Also, wow that's a lot of comments, so sorry if I don't reply to all of you here.

Simply put, yes, it was out of warranty at the time of it's death, and I guess the only reason I'm mad is that I've noticed how other laptops in the price range come with a 3 year warranty standard, otherwise the value is OK I guess.

Oh, and yes, the machine is about 22 months old I would guess. Simply put, it's the late 2007 MacBook pro.

Also, if I was to get a PC, it would be one that I have built myself.

With the heat issues, reading on these forums made me sure it was relatively normal, but of course I felt that anything above 60 degrees is far too much.

Originally Posted by HLdan
I can understand the OP's frustration but due to the circumstances I would've just bought another Mac. In this case he's talking about needing a powerful desktop. The new iMacs are incredible.
The OP is being quite naive in just deciding to go back to Windows as if his experience will be great. Macs, PC's and any other electronic device are all machines and can and will break whether immediately or over time but if the OP thinks deciding to go back to Windows will solve his hardware concerns then he's being naive.
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As much as I agree with you my problem is simple:
I'm low on cash, and unless Apple offers me a mid range tower I'm not interested. My budget currently is about 700 pounds and I'm not going to be able to find any decent Mac for that money.

Honestly, at this point, posting this thread three different times is just trolling. It's not going to change anyone's mind, and all it's doing is venting frustration in a way that will get most people here riled up.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, and I'm sure some of us have had similar, disappointing incidents with Apple.

My best suggestion at this point is to write a gently worded letter to Apple,explaining that you are a longtime customer, and how you understand that your computer is no longer under warranty, but are still disappointed about your experiences.

Coming back repeatedly to tell everyone in an Apple forum that Apple sucks and you're never buying another one isn't going to get you very far.
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I'm not overly mad at Apple I suppose, but I felt it was perhaps worth giving my final opinion on Apple. Again, sorry if my first post seemed a bit insane. I might consider contacting Apple again on this issue, but it doesn't look good.

As the repair shop told me, I have just been very unlucky that the entire logic board failed.

I will tell you that AppleCare is MUCH better to deal with than Dell's Premium Care. If you call Dell, you will get some Indian named "Bob" that can barely speak engrish.
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Last time I called their tech support a few days back for a Dell Studio the guy was English.

Temperature cycles causing expansion/contraction of the printed circuit assemblies are the other major cause of failure, which may be worse in newer equipment manufactured with RoHS compliant non-Pb solders (I think this is one of the issues iwth the infamous nvidia 8400 card problems, due to new die bonding techniques)
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I suspect that you are right, but like I said, Apple is pretty certain that it's not the GPU, even though it appears they have to way to test it.

to the OP, i feel bad for you, but that is why there is AC. If you are mad that Apple only offers a 1 year warranty compared to a 3 year for window machines, you should've realized that before buying your MBP. You also had a year to purchase AC. $240 is cheaper than $1200 for a logicboard....
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For the money that Apple charged me for it, I am left feeling I didn't get my money's worth.

I do like the Mac operating system, but the main issue here is that I paid 1,600 pounds ($3,000 I have heard) for a computer that completely died in September, and I'm now left with barely enough money for a replacement. Simply put, with my budget it cannot possibly be a Mac.

If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask and I'll try and give an answer.

BTW:
For those who assume I'm new to Apple or whatever, I also own a G4 Mac Mini and have previously owned a white Intel iMac core 2 duo, 2.16Ghz and they have both been pretty good in my honest opinion, though I no longer own the iMac (had to sell it to pay for the Macbook) and the Mac Mini just isn't enough.
 
Eidorian said:
How much computing power are you looking for that replacement desktop? Do you plan on building it as well?
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As much as I can get within that budget I suppose, though I'll probably end up building it relatively low spec and try and get the spec up over time due to a lack of money etc. If possible I would like to aim for an i5 and a GeForce 250 but I guess it depends.

Hopefully it won't be too much since I already have a case and CD drives etc. Sadly the power supply died a week ago though it was about 3 or 4 years old anyway, and probably not enough to power a new system, though it is annoying.
 
The 4850/4770 are a steal right now compared to the GTS250 or anything else from nVidia. The GT200 line has reach End of Life as well. Don't expect any more price drops on that hardware.

It's a little tougher for me to help with prices outside the states. It's good to have spare parts around. I have a similar situation. I'll see what advice I can give nonetheless.
 
Eidorian said:
The 4850/4770 are a steal right now compared to the GTS250 or anything else from nVidia. The GT200 line has reach End of Life as well. Don't expect any more price drops on that hardware.

It's a little tougher for me to help with prices outside the states. It's good to have spare parts around. I have a similar situation. I'll see what advice I can give nonetheless.
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Haha glad to see you're one of the few who isn't just flaming me nonetheless. I will definitely consider those GPUs though. How do they compare in benchmarks?
 
The HD 5770 review covers pretty much all recent hardware and the new lines on dozens of tests.

In this situation the GTS 250 = 9800GTX+. You just flash the BIOS of the older card to report it as a GTS 250.

Off hand the 4850 and GTS 250 trade blows in some games but the 4850 is going to be cheaper and use less power. The 4770 can beat the 4850 in some cases but it's cooler, uses less power than the 4850, and has some more overclocking potential under 40nm.

On the processor side AMD rules everything under US$100 with the Athlon II and X2 550. After that it's a jump to the Core i5 750 at ~UD$180.
 
spice weasel said:
Let me tell you my Apple horror story:

In 1990 I bought a Mac SE/30. I had it for eight years before I sold it. It worked the entire time.

In 1995 I bought a 5300cs. Widely regarded as a piece of crap, I used it daily for five years before I gave it to my uncle. He used it for a couple more before it finally gave up the ghost.

In early 2000 I purchased the then newly-released G4 tower. Nine years later, it still works. The only repair I've needed to do was to install a new hard drive a few years back.

In 2003 I bought a 1GHz 12" PowerBook. It still works and gets used nearly daily.

In 2005 I bought a G5 iMac iSight. It still works and is my main machine.

I have a 3rd gen iPod that I still use regularly, as well as two shuffles and an iPhone.

The only Apple products that have crapped-out on me early have been the first Titanium G4 PowerBook, which lasted me two-and-a-half years, and an Apple TV, which died a year-and-a-half after purchase.

I've never purchased AppleCare (not a wise move, I know). I suppose I've been lucky, but I consider Apple products to be generally well made. When my Apple TV died, I was upset, but I figured that I had finally gotten my comeuppance.

I'm sorry that you had bad luck with your laptop, but you took the chances when you didn't purchase the extended warranty.
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that wasnt much of a horror story. lol
 
If you can not afford a Mac, dont get one. I can not afford a BMW so I drive a Toyota.

The mini is a great machine, unless you need a laptop.
 
Sparky9292 said:
This was a problem with the iBook G3 laptops. The "ball solders" on the GPU would expand/contract causing them to eventually break and lose contact. You could only make the screen work by applying pressure on the laptop where the GPU sits under.

Crazy do-it-yourselfers would put votive candle's on top to re-heat the solder. There are even small companies who will try to re-solder to fix it cheaper than Apple.
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Great info! My sister's iBook has been suffering these same symptoms for a while. I figured it was a solder joint, but I didn't know where. I might have to drive down to my alma mater and use their reflow oven. If it comes to diy, the alcohol candle looks a little more reliable than a blowtorch. :)

PodHead said:
My 06' Macbook battery is still chugging along.
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No doubt some batteries last for a while, but my experience with seven mac laptops has indicated battery failure after about three years. Yours will probably be wearing out soon. Loss of capacity seems to be exponential.

My point was that chrisrottan seems to have been exaggerating Apple's claims on battery life. Indeed, it's only the latest batteries that boast better life, and even then, they're only claiming 1000 cycles vs. the 300 they state for older batteries. If your battery is in poor condition, Apple will replace it only if it has less than 300 cycles on it. You can find your cycle count by holding down the option key and selecting System Profiler from the Apple Menu. Battery information is displayed in the Power section under Hardware.
 
I hate to revive this thread again, but I have noticed how a lot of people have had the same issue as me after applying the SMC update. Does anyone here have any more information on this?
 
The first thing is that he could likely get $500 or more for the laptop, even in the condition that it's in at the moment. It's likely an easy fix in any case, given what he said was wrong with it. I often see such dead Macbook Pro's going for more than one may think....and that alone would help fund a new laptop.

Something to consider...

Steve
 
Sparky9292 said:
Yeah but your situation would be the same with Dell, Gateway, Sony, or whatever company you went with.

I always buy AppleCare for laptops. Yeah it's $300 US, but I've used it for every machine I've ever bought. Apple replaced my Logic board, keyboard, and now the battery for free.
Click to expand...

No they didn't replace it "free"...you and everyone else who paid for AppleCare paid for it...more people don't use it than do so in the end they win. Extended warranties are a scam...they are just a way to make more profits overall. People just accept that they have to buy them "just in case". We should not need to buy "insurance" against poor quality for items that cost this much...it should be a given part of the contract between seller and customer.

There is a good case for legal action if they won't do the "right thing" and fix it based on "reasonable expectations". It is reasonable to expect a laptop to last several years...these are not disposable items. NOBODY buys a laptop reasonably expecting it to last only a year or even 2 years...they should last longer if not damaged. Most EU countries have laws requiring 2-3 years coverage regardless of what manufacturers claim.
 
reverai said:
The first thing is that he could likely get $500 or more for the laptop, even in the condition that it's in at the moment. It's likely an easy fix in any case, given what he said was wrong with it. I often see such dead Macbook Pro's going for more than one may think....and that alone would help fund a new laptop.

Something to consider...

Steve
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Exactly what I was going to mention. I reckon you'd be able to get around £300 for your laptop on eBay, maybe more. Even if the logic board is fried, there are other valuable components in there. It may even not need a new logic board but just a DC board. To the right person, it's worth a fair bit of cash.
 
gnasher729 said:
And unlike most companies, Apple lets you buy AppleCare at any time while the computer is still under warranty. So you can buy a MacBook without AppleCare, and if you have any problems at all in the first 11 months, then you buy AppleCare.
Click to expand...

Best Buy allows you to extend their plans beyond 3 years...they sent me a check for the full cost of my laptop 5 years after I bought it when it had a logic board failure in South America after I told them what a local shop quoted for repair. They didn't even ask for proof. the past you could buy it after the sale as well but I can't say now.
 
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