Thank you for confirming my revised conclusion:
...the intent was to criticize the YouTuber in the first video...
Is correct.
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You Can/Can't Still Use PowerPC Macs in 2020!
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Is correct.
No, that wasn't my intent - otherwise I would've posted the videos where he was in error and made comments about them.
My criticism was only mentioned when the discussion turned to misinformation.
No need to push the skittles n rainbows can’t we all get along on the playground message. We’re adults(mostly I’m pretty sure) and as such will inevitably disagree & defend our differing positions which is endlessly better than everybody gets a trophy group think. I thought this was a healthy debate & found it interesting how the debate & message evolved etc. Both arguments had solid points - One from a very broad POV & another much more focused. So through their lenses, neither argument flawed really, but pivoting on a differing Interpretation of verbiage. The only shortcoming I saw was incorrect interpretation of video 1, but that was incredibly easy to do unless you read down into the YT comments for content clarification in that video, helping to clarify What was meant.
Anyhoo, We’re still all here, no one’s been banned or censored so I think it’s a win.
That and Im right & you’re wrong
Anyhoo, We’re still all here, no one’s been banned or censored so I think it’s a win.
That and Im right & you’re wrong
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According to you this YouTuber is not qualified to be commenting on PPC systems.
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Get off my lawn!No need to push the skittles n rainbows can’t we all get along on the playground message. We’re adults(mostly I’m pretty sure) and as such will inevitably disagree & defend our differing positions. I thought this was a healthy debate & found it interesting how the debate etc.
We’re still all here, no one’s been banned or censored so I think it’s a win.
That and Im right & you’re wrong
Where did I say that and what relevance has that statement got? Anyone can read through the thread and see your constant attempts to prove something that isn't there?
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Microsoft really only cares about volume licensing these days anyway. I've had a few machines activated with autoKMS for a couple of years now, and never had a problem.
I beg to differ. I have yet to see you acknowledge the YouTuber made valid points but I have seen plenty of statements where you attempt to discredited him based on a single oversight (regarding the MSE setting). You may not be viewing it that way but that's the way it's coming across.
Being willing to make the effort to understand and try alternative methods before forming an opinion.
If you're going to make PowerPC work, this is required.
Both your definition and mine depend on your personality and outlook on things. Neither is wrong, just a different way of seeing things.
But, I come from a family of teachers and my own personality doesn't allow me to give up before trying other things (I don't like being beaten by inanimate objects), so there's that.
Out of interest, what's your Core Duo's clock speed? And what GPU is it paired to?
I think the YouTuber in question has done this and published the video based on his experience with PPC systems.
I would imagine then that the argument centers around the degree of that effort and whether that is sufficient or not to meet the definition of reasonable.
I should clarify that my definition requires a genuine and legitimate effort. If the YouTuber meets that criteria in your eyes, I have no argument with you, even if I disagree - because that's only my opinion and that's subjective.
I can see G5 outperform a Core Duo in several tasks depending on the G5 model. For example I am currently transcoding a DVD rip on my single 1.8GHz G5. This transcode will take approximately 12 hours to complete. I expect the 2009 Mini I just purchased to complete this transcode in slightly less than half the time (assuming no throttling issues) as it has a slightly higher clock speed (2.0GHz) and twice the cores. However I expect the dual 2.3GHz G5 I just parted with would complete this task in a similar amount of time as the Mini (maybe even slightly faster). However I would expect a quad 2.5GHz to perform the task in less than 1/4 of the time. Anything that scales with CPU could be faster on a G5 depending on its configuration. Maybe more so if the task is GPU related and the Core system lacks a dedicated GPU.
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I think it does based on the target audience for the video. I don't think it would if it were targeted towards the users of this forum.
I feel like this is another great divide among not only this forum, but for the rest of whoever else continues to insist on using their PowerPC Macs into the next decade.
We have different reasons for using the same machines, all just as valid as the other. Evidently, this also means that they have multiple qualities that appeal to multiple types of people with different priorities. You've hit the nail on the head in that you want to run an old Apple Mac to run old Apple OSes. It simply comes down to that for you and many others, because that's the central priority. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
I (and I think a smaller amount of people than the former group, including Dr. Kaiser), can live without Apple's old OSes and only see them as a plus to the differing central priority, which is to - regardless if they're Macs or not - drive well-built computer machines with badass RISC processors that had roots in the server markets, high-end workstation areas, supercomputing sectors, and even space exploration.
Case in point, if I came into possession of an IBM IntelliStation POWER machine, or anything by Raptor, I would drive that instead because it more directly appeals to my tastes, skipping the Apple branding, apps, and OSes in the process, leaving just pure POWER and UNIX heaven.
And that probably mostly explains my work with Linux / BSD on PowerPC, because the machine itself is the goal. Not the OS.
You miss the point of "preference".
This is correct, of course. My former statement "The Mini will run circles around the G5" was in comparison to the single 1.8GHz model you have now, not to the dual 2.3GHz you used to have. The comparison between that one and a 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo will be interesting indeed. The GPU is also a big part of the equation, and I can say the Mini's humble 9400M will help quite a bit when it comes to playing high-definition video. Last but not least, the Core Duo is basically a dual-core Pentium M whereas the Core 2 Duo is based on the Core microarchitecture and faster than a Core Duo at the same clock speed (it being 64-bit is another plus). My apologies if you've already known all this.
@TheShortTimer: Thanks for the info. That's a 2.16GHz dual-core Pentium M against two 2.3GHz G5s - with the Core Duo not being based on the higher-IPC Core microarchitecture, it's not entirely surprising to see the G5 can have the edge due to the higher clock speed as well as (maybe) more RAM and a more powerful GPU, depending on the nature of the task.
That's a good point of view. For me, though, the primary goal is (and, thinking about it, always has been) the OS and the applications I want to run, with the machine being the "vessel". So, I use the machine which allows me to reach this goal. I'd love to run an AMD Ryzen box and ditch Intel for good. If I considered myself proficient enough with hackintoshing to run one as my main machine, I'd do it.
Case in point: At the beginning of 2005, I switched from a 2.4GHz x86 PC to a 1.25GHz Mac mini which, all things considered, sucked compared to the PC. But the PC didn't run Mac OS X. The mini did. And that's what I wanted.
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Some years ago I switched from a 2Ghz Dual G5 with Nvidia 6800 GPU to the 1.83Ghz C2D 17" iMac as daily driver and graphics workstation.
I switched back to the G5 as it felt a better experience, however, when it came to DVD ripping and video transcoding the iMac had it easily beat.
I didn't know all of this and I thank you for the enlightenment.
You're welcome. I would've elaborated on the nature of the task but I didn't want to come across as a stuck record. In the context of HD video playback, my Core Duo Mac falls down and was only able to play particular 1080p content after tweaks. It has big problems dealing with the (MPEG4-AVC/H.264) HDTV 1080p recordings from my PVR. In contrast, my G5 (with initially 3GB of RAM till I expanded it to 8GB) is able to effortlessly play every HD video that I throw at it and without tweaks.
I had to laugh at this irony because the G5 cost me peanuts in comparison to what I paid for the Core Duo Mac and it underscored that the early years of Apple's transition to Intel was in many ways, overhyped and overrated. This is why I take umbrage at some of the assertions that have been made in this thread regarding the PPC platform because from my own experiences, I have witnessed first hand, instances where the more modern, Intel based successor is actually trounced by the predecessor.
As usual the answer is: It depends on the task and the software performing the task. When the Intel systems were initially released there were few Intel native applications and the transition didn't really come into its own until after a few rounds of updates.
One also has to take into account whether a tasks is multithreaded or not. My example of transcoding is one such example. It can utilize all the processors in a PowerMac system and therefore a 2.5GHz dual processor, dual core PowerMac G5 should easily outperform a 2.0GHz dual core Core Duo / Core 2 Duo. The Core architecture advantage wasn't that much better than the G5 let alone more than twice as much. Things get a little more interesting when we compare the dual processor / dual core 2.0 / 2.3 / 2.5 GHz PowerMac G5s (I'm leaving the 2.7GHz out as it's clock speed is 35% higher than the 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo in the Mac Mini I purchased). Unfortunately I no longer have my 2.3GHz dual processor G5 PowerMac so I won't be able to run any updated benchmarks between the two.
What I am most interested in with the Mini versus the 2.3GHz dual processor PowerMac is the web browsing experience. I have a 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo MacBook which browses the web much better than the PowerMac did but it's limit to OS X 10.6 (without tweaking). 10.6's version of Safari is not very useful with todays web. The Mini is capable of running up to El Capitan and therefore that version of Safari should be more useful when browsing the web. It's one of the primary reasons I decided to purchase the 2009 model (though it was the least expensive Mini I could find when shipping was factored into the total price so a win-win).
sure, there always are exceptions.
i have a A1260 macbook pro from 2008. It is an excellent laptop for my nowadays workflow at home, you can even run catalina on it thanks to the community that makes it possible. It does almost everything i need but : would i recommend anyone i don´t know to buy such a thing in 2020 ?
I mean, it does almost everything i want it to do but will it be the a similar experience for every other average user like me in 2020 ? I dont know but i would say no.
yes, thats a perfect example of someone that knows the workflow and gives not only a reasonable but also a cheap solution.
I find this an odd result - I have the 2Ghz CD 20" iMac that benchmarks lower than you MBP and has less VRAM and yet it has no problem with 1080P - a Youtube download plays at about 30% CPU in VLC.
Does your MBP have a dead battery - that would force the CPU to clock down?
The battery is dead now but at the time of the issue when I had use tweaks to get a HDTV 1080p file to play correctly and also experienced other problems, it was fine.
I don't have a PPC Mac currently, but there are several Mac OS 9-only games that I miss. Some have been updated & ported to Steam or website versions, others haven't. I remember liking the games Populous, Lemmings, The X-Files game, etc.
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