Your Mac and Apple Vision Pro: What You Can Do (and What You Can't)

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Convertibles and motorcycles are far from the majority of transportation vehicles exactly because of convenience and comfort, if you are swimming well then your hair is wet...duh? My point is that the comfort factor will be another hurdle the VP's have to overcome, and for many consumers it will be an issue. It doesn't even have to be about hair and makeup, ie sweat, pressure marks on the face, discomfort from the weight, claustrophobia, inability to see the outside world (no pass through isn't as good as full vision), etc. A more glasses-like package would have gone a long way towards this.

Apparently Apple couldn't find a way to deliver the experience they want to deliver in a glasses-like package. There are existing glasses-like VR products available. If you are interested in VR that way, look into them. There's even some pretty favorable reviews of them and some reviewers use them with Macs. In general, they are also much cheaper than Vpro.

Vpro as a product will have plenty of hurdles to leap to drive whatever adoption it will get. All new products have to go through that. The hurdles may be too high for many... or not. Hair & makeup issues may end up becoming a paramount issue... or not. Face marks, sweat, condensation, 2 hour battery life, neck strain, eye fatigue, nausea, et all can be imagined too.

This will not be for everyone... and that's fine. Nothing is for everyone. However, those who can't see it being for them should not try to convince everyone else how it is also not for anyone else too. For someone, this may be the greatest product they've ever seen. And they are as right for them as the ultimate Vpro pessimist is in seeing it as the worst thing ever created.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I'm sure "in business settings" the iPad isn't very popular. But none of this means anything.

What makes you say that? iPad is quite popular in several professions.

In a business setting, many require me to wear a tie. Which I hate. Which is in large part why I've been self employed my entire career.

Anecdote.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Gaslighting isn’t going to work. People have framed it many ways “as many monitors as I want!” And “monitors of any size!” Etc. Your claim that no one said it is silly nonsense. The argument has been made to me over and over and over again in many threads.

As you said, there is a record we can search. I've tried to verify claims that you're making and have been unable to find them. That's the opposite of gaslighting. I went looking for the evidence you claim is there, and can't find it.

As for "monitors of any size" or even the term "infinite" clearly those are exagerations. But even Apple has said you can have a movie screen 100 feet in size. And Apple has shown many monitors in sizes that are simply unavailable to anyone outside of AVP or VR headsets.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Apparently Apple couldn't find a way to deliver the experience they want to deliver in a glasses-like package. There are existing glasses-like VR products available. If you are interested in VR that way, look into them. There's even some pretty favorable reviews of them and some reviewers use them with Macs. In general, they are also much cheaper than Vpro.

Vpro as a product will have plenty of hurdles to leap to drive whatever adoption it will get. All new products have to go through that. The hurdles may be too high for many... or not. Hair & makeup issues may end up becoming a paramount issue... or not. Face marks, sweat, condensation, 2 hour battery life, neck strain, eye fatigue, nausea, et all can be imagined too.

This will not be for everyone... and that's fine. Nothing is for everyone. However, those who can't see it being for them should not try to convince everyone else how it is also not for anyone else too. For someone, this may be the greatest product they've ever seen. And they are as right for them as the ultimate Vpro pessimist is in seeing it as the worst thing ever created.

Apple is betting over 10 years of research and dev along with several billion dollars on this being popular. The notion that it can succeed in a tiny niche market is wrong.

 

[Surf Monkey]

As you said, there is a record we can search. I've tried to verify claims that you're making and have been unable to find them. That's the opposite of gaslighting. I went looking for the evidence you claim is there, and can't find it.

As for "monitors of any size" or even the term "infinite" clearly those are exagerations. But even Apple has said you can have a movie screen 100 feet in size. And Apple has shown many monitors in sizes that are simply unavailable to anyone outside of AVP or VR headsets.

Talk is cheap. As the person who actually had these discussions I’m sure you’ll forgive me for suggesting you’re full of it, because people have made this argument over and over again.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

What makes you say that? iPad is quite popular in several professions.

I agree. But I'm responding to the comment that the AVP has limitations to it being accepted "in business settings."

I'm sure the iPad has limitations, too, in business settings. But as you say, it's still quite popular, and likely sells very well.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Anecdote.

Exactly. And my point is a single anecdote tells us nothing about how well the AVP will or won't sell.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Talk is cheap. As the person who actually had these discussions I’m sure you’ll forgive me for suggesting you’re full of it, because people have made this argument over and over again.

Anecdote.

 

[G5isAlive]

Excellent rationalizations. None of them rebut me. Telling your friends that they can’t try your Vision Pro without getting in a car and driving to an Apple Store is silly nonsense. The fact that you offered it as a legitimate rebuttal is hilarious. But not as hilarious as you doubling down on it now.

So let me triple down to make your day. I never ever said my friends cant try it on. Never said they had to go to an Apple Store. Not sure who said that except you. You do tend to move the goal posts on your arguments. It's not a game, no one is keeping score.

I will let my friends try mine on to see what it's like. Why not? If I have to take out my presciption lenses no big deal.

Is it likely I will lend it to them to take on trips? Not likely. Don't do that with my iPads either. So what?

I said that if people want a demo, demos will be available.

You said no one would do that. Patently absurd you said.

I disagree.

 

[spinedoc77]

Oh, couldn't agree with you more. Most consumers wont want the AVP at all. For a lot of reasons (can't comment on comfort until trying it on).

But so? What is wrong with the AVP in its current incarnation being the beginning of something new that will work for only some, not the end all and be all for everyone. That's what I don't get. We know it's not going the AVP is not going to sell millions. We know it's not for everyone. What are we arguing about?

Lol, I totally agree. Look, the VP is an initial product meant to get consumers excited and devs working on killer apps, I don't think anyone with half a brain expects it to be the next iPhone in 2024. I personally AM excited about it, rather I'm excited about what Apple can turn it into in 3-5 years and am looking forward to buying an iteration sometime in the future.

Edit: One thing to add, we are talking about a $3 trillion company with shareholders (myself included), so when they release something like this they really should have a clear vision on how they see it evolving. I think that's where I have issues, I'm not seeing a clear vision from Apple, if anything this feels like Google throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Is it a VR journey, is it meant to eventually supplant our iPhones and be worn all day, etc etc. I get that a lot of these questions can't really be answered well, and apps and paradigms get invented which completely change the way a device is used, but it would be nice as a shareholder to get a sense of *what* this is evolving towards or if this is the finished product.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I agree. But I'm responding to the comment that the AVP has limitations to it being accepted "in business settings."

I'm sure the iPad has limitations, too, in business settings. But as you say, it's still quite popular, and likely sells very well.

There’s no 1:1 between use of an iPad and use of a headset in a professional setting. It’s a failed analogy.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Lol, I totally agree. Look, the VP is an initial product meant to get consumers excited and devs working on killer apps, I don't think anyone with half a brain expects it to be the next iPhone in 2024. I personally AM excited about it, rather I'm excited about what Apple can turn it into in 3-5 years and am looking forward to buying an iteration sometime in the future.

Yet this is what they were able to come up with over a decade of dev. What makes people think that three or four years more is going to result in a drastically smaller device?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

There’s no 1:1 between use of an iPad and use of a headset in a professional setting. It’s a failed analogy.

All analogies fail to those who are motivated to disagree.

 

[G5isAlive]

Lol, I totally agree. Look, the VP is an initial product meant to get consumers excited and devs working on killer apps, I don't think anyone with half a brain expects it to be the next iPhone in 2024. I personally AM excited about it, rather I'm excited about what Apple can turn it into in 3-5 years and am looking forward to buying an iteration sometime in the future.

phew. It's nice to be in agreement here. Thanks! I couldn't agree more, the AVP is not the ending, it's the beginning.

I personally have no idea if the future is bright or dark on this. I just think the present is fun. Looking forward to trying it.

 

[Surf Monkey]

All analogies fail to those who are motivated to disagree.

Maybe, but yours is bad.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I sincerely don't understand the motivation to come into every thread about the AVP to disparage it. To post hundreds or thousands of posts to proclaim how horrible it is, how it won't sell.

Once or twice? Sure.

But to be fixated on negativity over a product baffles me. Don't buy it. Move on.

I don't think that is in any way comparable to those of us who want to discuss the possibility of the product. How we may use it. Where we see the platform going. We like it. We come to discuss that with other people who like it.

But if you hate it, why you're spending so much time on here seems pathological to me.

 

[G5isAlive]

Yet this is what they were able to come up with over a decade of dev. What makes people think that three or four years more is going to result in a drastically smaller device?

So again, who said this is going to be drastically smaller in 3 or 4 years? No one. Sure people comment on the future but is that 5, 10, or 20 years? I suspect closer to 10 for glasses with this capability.

But many have said (I personally disagree) that the iPhone wasn't good enough until 4 years had passed. Maybe thats where you are getting confused. But the point is, it did improve, and so will this. Got to get the ball rolling somehow.

 

[subjonas]

I don't know why MacRumors has concluded this. They may be right, but I don't understand what they're basing this on. IOS, upon which VOS is based, has "sidecar" that lets you do exactly this.

As for the "infinite monitors" I still think you're confusing people who say this is possible inside the VOS AVP system with those saying that you can run many monitors from your mac to your AVP. I've mostly only seen people talking about multiple monitors in reference to within the system.

Yeah infinite monitors, no. But I think people expected infinite Mac app windows, which might be possible now or soon with native Vision apps. And I’m assuming it’s possible because if you’re not looking directly at a window, then it doesn’t need to be rendered completely or at all. So maybe it will be possible with Mac apps too eventually.

But as far as multiple virtual Mac displays, only one display is possible now if it’s only using Airplay since Airplay only mirrors. But it might be possible now or soon to get as many virtual displays as the Mac would normally support (non-virtually), not using Airplay. Not sure if Sidecar is a different protocol, but as you said, it exists for iPad so there may be something similar for VP, now or soon. A cable would be ideal for the best latency free connection, and to maximize the number of displays. Apple might have to make the cable that connects VP to Mac though. Hopefully that would also power the VP. Would need to plug a MacBook into power for long sessions.

 

[musukosan]

And doesn’t „die“ on you in the middle of watching a TV Original movie 😉

That’s because it’s plugged in to an outlet… just like you can with the Vision Pro.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

But many have said (I personally disagree) that the iPhone wasn't good enough until 4 years had passed. Maybe thats where you are getting confused. But the point is, it did improve, and so will this. Got to get the ball rolling somehow.

I bought the iPhone day one. Loved it. Understood its limitations; but more importantly, clearly understood its benefits. I understood it would improve over time. But that didn't diminish all the benefits that v1 iPhone gave me over my Palm Treo.

 

[Realityck]

You need a Mac to mirror on the VP so it’s not an cannabalization scenario. Also Apple is acutely aware of the space they are venturing into. It’s not like we all are aware of the problems of ar/vr (dizziness & wearing a big headset for hrs) but somehow Apple is not. Their marketing materials are revelatory in that regard - imagery is of the user lounging and watching stationary screens within their headset, also their only ad, recently released, aims at normalizing the basic idea of just wearing a headset. Even the design of the device - it automatically reveals anyone entering your space, addressing normal human fears. The outward screen serves no purpose other than at a human level - to offset the disconnection other people might feel near the user, making it more palatable.

Good points, I wonder, will the VP be "socially acceptable" to consumers with the marketing materials so far?

Meaning people seen using the VP in mixed social company, that they might be will looked at oddly in regards to some addiction, being distracted, just a odd way carrying on conversations with it being worn, irregardless whether its a normal home/work environments. One might even be thought of as impolite wearing it when active socially, rather then only while in a private home/work environment.

 

[spinedoc77]

Apparently Apple couldn't find a way to deliver the experience they want to deliver in a glasses-like package. There are existing glasses-like VR products available. If you are interested in VR that way, look into them. There's even some pretty favorable reviews of them and some reviewers use them with Macs. In general, they are also much cheaper than Vpro.

Vpro as a product will have plenty of hurdles to leap to drive whatever adoption it will get. All new products have to go through that. The hurdles may be too high for many... or not. Hair & makeup issues may end up becoming a paramount issue... or not. Face marks, sweat, condensation, 2 hour battery life, neck strain, eye fatigue, nausea, et all can be imagined too.

This will not be for everyone... and that's fine. Nothing is for everyone. However, those who can't see it being for them should not try to convince everyone else how it is also not for anyone else too. For someone, this may be the greatest product they've ever seen. And they are as right for them as the ultimate Vpro pessimist is in seeing it as the worst thing ever created.

I think you are mistaken, I'm not trying to convince anyone that this product isn't for them, this is the issue with social media and not being able to discuss stuff normally lol. Yes I do bring up what I feel are shortcomings of this device and things I feel may impact its viability and sales, but I guess that's what we are here to do, discuss these sorts of things.

My apologies if it seems like I'm saying the VP will be a complete flop, that's not what I'm saying at all. It all depends on what your definition of flop is. If Apple makes 10,000 of them and they all sell out then it's a hit, if they make a million and sell out it will be a hit, but not really a hit with another 8 billion people in the world. Now get me farther towards the what? 2.2 billion or so iPhones sold and now we are talking a hit, or even a significant percentage of that. Do I think they will dent that in 2024? Hell no, but as the product evolves it might, it just might, but that's a LOT of ifs and crystal ball waving. Meanwhile shareholders are asking the same questions.

 

[acader]

If it can cook a meal, do the dishes and wash the car, I'm buying it now!!!

 

[musukosan]

You also probably can't do multiple desktops because of the same stupid feature they build into all the base M chips where you can only output 1 external display. No one talks about that enough, for all of Apple's fanfare on the raw power of their chips, I could get 3 monitors running off a 2018 crappy i5 MBA.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying correctly… I have two external displays hooked up to my M2 Mac Mini…

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I don't know, VR has been around for a long time, I'm still not seeing any killer apps. I appreciate how advanced the VP is, but at the end of the day it's still just a VR/AR headset, and just because they are putting out a dev kit doesn't mean somebody is going to come up with something earth shattering tomorrow. Personally I believe the killer app would have been all day use, something which could come close to REPLACING your computer, or your phone, or your tablet, or all 3 such as glasses. That ain't this.

And that's fine. If you were the lone judge of "killer app", it's all decided for everyone.

For me though, THIS (mobile super-sized Mac screen) is a "killer app." I'm hoping Vpro will do that one thing really well.

For someone else, something else it can do will be their killer app.

My judgement and someone else's judgement of "kliller app" is just as valid as you seeing no killer app. And that's fine for all of us. It appears this product is not for you. That doesn't mean it's not for anyone. There's probably someone out there who may see it as the most important product for THEM, even above the "my precious" one.

All these threads fill with these camps where one group seems to desperately want to convince everyone else that Vpro is not for anyone... and another group chimes in with how they see things differently. But there's no room for different opinions: Vpro is not for anyone or Vpro is for everyone... it's a complete dud that no one will buy or it's the next iPhone. There seems to be little room for anything in between the two extremes... which is very likely where MOST people would put themselves... especially those who recognize that all extremist opinions either way are still built atop speculation on vapor for a product that no one has got to try yet (who can freely talk about the experience).

Vpro haters: HATE IT! It's awful
Vpro lover: LOVE IT! It's the greatest
And the rest of us: stand by, see for yourself in a few weeks, and pass judgement on the actual product, whatever it is... and whatever it can actually do.

Personally, I'm just as ready to turn pessimist if it DOESN'T do this one thing well as I am to remain leaning to the optimistic side based on what I know about the vapor right now.